Warframes are actually people

[Sixty5]

14 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Pushing unproven points harder is not necessarily a good thing. Staying out of the long grass of Headcanon will help prevent shock and anger in the face of further revelations like the aftermath of Second Dream.

 

 

 

Besides which, SilentMobius' point remains completely unmatched in its clarity and relevance. Due to how the narrative and gameplay intersect, for DE to reveal that Warframes are sapient would instantly cast the players as irredeemable monsters, in a way which would make the post-Second Dream mess look like a pleasant tea party. That would be a profoundly, ridiculously unwise move for the narrative development of the game.

I disagree. 

Sure we might be horrible monsters for using the frames (ohai mag prime codex), but I don't think the nature of frames, as I see it, ruins the narrative to that extent. 

I feel like it is more of an interesting twist rather than a plot nuke. The game world isn't all peaches and cream where we skip through fields of flowers. Tenno kill people, lots of people, and the revelation the the frames we use were once a whole other person, or something similar really hits home the shades of grey idea. 

Sure we are the good guys. But not everything about us is good. 

[BornWithTeeth]

Not even talking about using the 'frames. Referring to how we can build and discard them at will. Remember, according to the game a Warframe has a scrappage sale value, and that value is 25,000 credits.

 

In comparison, if you don't want a Kubrow anymore, you pay the Lotus to take care of it. In other words, the game treats Kubrows as having more individual worth and emotional value than Warframes.

 

I am still sticking by my own guideline, I'm certainly not saying that Warframes are mindless pieces of machinery. I'm just regarding any unproven claims that they are fully sapient with a great deal of suspicion.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

41 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

I just figured we get the blueprints, shove em into the Foundry and a frame pops out all built. 

I never went beyond assuming that the Foundry was some sort of fancy 3d printer/fabricator thing. 

We know it has no issues building organic stuff (infested weapons) so why should a body be any different 

Yeah I guess it could be similar to that device from the movie "The Fifth Element" that re-constructs Leeloo, but materials wise and acquisition just don't make sense.  (Not that it made sense before anyways. hahaha.)

[Sixty5]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Not even talking about using the 'frames. Referring to how we can build and discard them at will. Remember, according to the game a Warframe has a scrappage sale value, and that value is 25,000 credits.

 

In comparison, if you don't want a Kubrow anymore, you pay the Lotus to take care of it. In other words, the game treats Kubrows as having more individual worth and emotional value than Warframes.

 

I am still sticking by my own guideline, I'm certainly not saying that Warframes are mindless pieces of machinery. I'm just regarding any unproven claims that they are fully sapient with a great deal of suspicion.

You actually pay to get rid of unwanted Kubrows? You do know you can just let them melt for free right?

Also who says that when we sell frames we aren't selling them back to the Lotus?

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

NSA You actually pay to get rid of unwanted Kubrows? You do know you can just let them melt for free right?

Also who says that when we sell frames we aren't selling them back to the Lotus?

For the first point, ew.

 

 

For the second, there's the fact that the game explicitly says that Kubrows are consigned to the Lotus, while it makes no such statement about the sale of Warframes. That's not definitive proof, of course, but it doesn't exactly lend itself to the interpretation that the Lotus is running a shelter for lost Warframes.

 

 

Basically, post-Second Dream, the game still treats Warframes as expendable pieces of equipment. Gotta address that before insisting that a 'frame is somehow an equal to a Tenno. 

[EmptyDevil]

53 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Not even talking about using the 'frames. Referring to how we can build and discard them at will. Remember, according to the game a Warframe has a scrappage sale value, and that value is 25,000 credits.

In regards to us selling Warframes, it could be possible that we're only selling the model that includes the helmet, chassis, and systems. Assuming there is a Technocyte-based creature with those components built around them, It is likely that Ordis could be storing the creature somewhere after removing and scrapping the armor.

[Sixty5]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

For the first point, ew.

 

 

For the second, there's the fact that the game explicitly says that Kubrows are consigned to the Lotus, while it makes no such statement about the sale of Warframes. That's not definitive proof, of course, but it doesn't exactly lend itself to the interpretation that the Lotus is running a shelter for lost Warframes.

 

 

Basically, post-Second Dream, the game still treats Warframes as expendable pieces of equipment. Gotta address that before insisting that a 'frame is somehow an equal to a Tenno. 

All animals are equal, some are just more equal than others.

On the other hand, a Tenno is an ancient being with magical void powers, whereas a Warframe is a Technocyte construct. Sure it might once have been human, but then again the Grineer used to be human, and Chargers used to be Grineer. 

So the question becomes, where do you draw the moral line? If you don't like Warframes being treated as equipment, then should you treat the enemies in this game like loot bags?

[Marksman]

The Lotus doesn't even look at your Warframe when it's just sitting there with broken war stabbed on it during the last part of the second dream.

Even she doesn't seem to give a damn about them.

 

[Sixty5]

Just now, Marksman said:

The Lotus doesn't even look at your Warframe when it's just sitting there with broken war stabbed on it during the last part of the second dream.

Even she doesn't seem to give a damn about them.

 

Do you look at homeless people begging for pocket change on the side of the road? Or do you try to ignore them, along with the ugly side of our world.

Though I think in that case, the lotus is more concerned with the state her 'child' is in. 

[BornWithTeeth]

I still really dunno how well your theory holds up to the part where we can know exactly where all of our Warframes came from, and how old they are, down to the hour.....on account of how we built them. 

 

Not one of my Warframes is more than two years old. Tragic human victims of ancient crimes, they are not.

[Sixty5]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

I still really dunno how well your theory holds up to the part where we can know exactly where all of our Warframes came from, and how old they are, down to the hour.....on account of how we built them. 

 

Not one of my Warframes is more than two years old. Tragic human victims of ancient crimes, they are not.

From a lore standpoint, at least some of them are left over from the old war, y'know the ones stored in Cryopods. 

Plus the theory isnt that all warframes are made from people, it is that the original run of frames were, with all subsequent frames being copies of them. 

[BornWithTeeth]

36 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

From a lore standpoint, at least some of them are left over from the old war, y'know the ones stored in Cryopods. 

Plus the theory isnt that all warframes are made from people, it is that the original run of frames were, with all subsequent frames being copies of them. 

I destroyed my starter Excalibur, and built a 'clean' model, one whose construction I had personally overseen.

[Plushy]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I destroyed my starter Excalibur, and built a 'clean' model, one whose construction I had personally overseen.

I'm suddenly feeling suspicious of my own start frame...

[Sixty5]

5 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I destroyed my starter Excalibur, and built a 'clean' model, one whose construction I had personally overseen.

I also bet you vaporise companion cubes without a second thought. 

2 minutes ago, Plushy said:

I'm suddenly feeling suspicious of my own start frame...

My starter Loki honestly gets more play than my Loki Prime. 

He's carried me through all sorts of missions, I trust him implicitly 

[Campaigner]

Yes, maybe the warframes have infected human body parts inside them... or maybe the Orokin were Japanese and wanted boobs on their drones -_-

 

[BornWithTeeth]

11 minutes ago, Sixty5 said:

I also bet you vaporise companion cubes without a second thought. 

Only the ones which I strongly suspect of being trapped as balls. An entire scrotum full of balls. Booby-trapped ones. With extra wire taps, and one shiny killswitch....per ball.

[Sixty5]

36 minutes ago, Campaigner said:

Yes, maybe the warframes have infected human body parts inside them... or maybe the Orokin were Japanese and wanted boobs on their drones -_-

 

That honestly would not surprise me. 

[SilentMobius]

4 hours ago, Sixty5 said:

if you don't like the format, that style just makes it way easier to read and write, as well as pushing points a little harder

Not to fond of scientific style write ups where you go full due diligence, a lot of their impact is lost in online forums. 

And as far as being messy goes, I'd say that being messy is a massive improvement over the tangled heap of 'lore' that we have. 

The problem is that others read assertions and assume they are truth due to the way it's worded and repeat them. Then we get players complaining that "DE don't know their own lore" when in actual fact some previous assumption-presented-as-an-assertion was simply wrong: E.G. "Valkyr can't have a prime" "Nova can't have a prime" "All Warframes have their own Tenno" and "The Tenno must be in the Warframe". Hence that "format" of post is actively harmful to the community, not to mention just flat out wrong.

Your theory doesn't actually "Tidy" anything it just creates problems, notably moral ones that muddy the water for any future emotional hooks DE might want to use for future content. 

[Sixty5]

1 hour ago, SilentMobius said:

The problem is that others read assertions and assume they are truth due to the way it's worded and repeat them. Then we get players complaining that "DE don't know their own lore" when in actual fact some previous assumption-presented-as-an-assertion was simply wrong: E.G. "Valkyr can't have a prime" "Nova can't have a prime" "All Warframes have their own Tenno" and "The Tenno must be in the Warframe". Hence that "format" of post is actively harmful to the community, not to mention just flat out wrong.

Your theory doesn't actually "Tidy" anything it just creates problems, notably moral ones that muddy the water for any future emotional hooks DE might want to use for future content. 

When I write stuff like this I do so in a similar format to a debate, I make a point, and back it up, then link it to other points, all with an upbeat swing to it to keep the reader interested. I agree that if I wanted due diligence that a scientific approach, where hypothesis are referred to as such is the better method, but that style is boring both to read and write and therefore would not spark the same degree of discussion.

Stating that Warframes are people, is going to have a greater impact than saying Evidence within the game points to the possibility of Warframes being derived from humans. Also the second option is long as hell.

As far as not tidying up anything, I'm gonna call you out on that one. The origin of the frames themselves is a huge blank spot in the lore, along with the nature of the frames themselves, why does Valkyr scream even though I built her, why do these surrogates have genders, why could my frame break the Sword without me?

The Frames are people theory tidies up the whole thing rather neatly, and brings some really interesting moral dilemmas to the game. You call that a negative, along with mucking up any future emotional hooks DE have in store, personally I say that that is a huge emotional hook in itself. To find out that the thing you have used for so long was once a person just as you were, is a huge deal, and it opens up so many possibilities. 

[SilentMobius]

7 hours ago, Sixty5 said:

When I write stuff like this I do so in a similar format to a debate, I make a point, and back it up, then link it to other points, all with an upbeat swing to it to keep the reader interested. I agree that if I wanted due diligence that a scientific approach, where hypothesis are referred to as such is the better method, but that style is boring both to read and write and therefore would not spark the same degree of discussion.

You are mistaken and part of the problem, so at this point engagement would only encourage you, welcome to my ignore list. My parting point is that you are looking to fill in in-word information, that is irrelevant fro the perspective of a good story. And you "solution" actively works against creating engaging drama.

[Alpheias]

11 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

The problem is that others read assertions and assume they are truth due to the way it's worded and repeat them. Then we get players complaining that "DE don't know their own lore" when in actual fact some previous assumption-presented-as-an-assertion was simply wrong: E.G. "Valkyr can't have a prime" "Nova can't have a prime" "All Warframes have their own Tenno" and "The Tenno must be in the Warframe". Hence that "format" of post is actively harmful to the community, not to mention just flat out wrong.

Your theory doesn't actually "Tidy" anything it just creates problems, notably moral ones that muddy the water for any future emotional hooks DE might want to use for future content. 

Eh, who cares? In the end, it is a game with visceral amounts of violence and gore plus hours of your life to sink into, in the pursuit of stuff that actually doesn't exist.

 

3 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

You are mistaken and part of the problem, so at this point engagement would only encourage you, welcome to my ignore list. My parting point is that you are looking to fill in in-word information, that is irrelevant fro the perspective of a good story. And you "solution" actively works against creating engaging drama.

Well, you obviously care a lot more than I do but correct me if I am wrong here but would you agree that Warframe is nothing but a fictional piece of work and thus any discussion related to said fictional universe is because you have too much time on your hands and because it can be entertaining?

Edited March 18, 2016 by DigitalMist

[(PSN)Lowk721]

Appearance wise we know at least one guy was in charge of designing Frame. I'm betting Margulis had boobs thus Saren had feminine traits as well. The other could be simply an echo of that "based off of what you know" kind of thing.

Especially if they were trying to fool people that they were in a suit.

[(XBOX)SlohLane]

On March 17, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Sixty5 said:

building an automaton in the likeness of a person makes sense

The answer your looking for is written by you.

[Evanescent]

Quoting from codex and Valkyr's profile video:

Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing.

 

This is Valkyr, the tormented, the experiment.

Valkyr was crafted from torment, Tenno. Take control of her rage.

 

"...leaving her scarred, angry..."

"..take control of HER rage."

Doesn't jive with the 'frames are machines' thought, does it? It's explicitly referencing the frame's emotions.

[Sixty5]

4 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

Quoting from codex and Valkyr's profile video:

Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments, leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing.

 

This is Valkyr, the tormented, the experiment.

Valkyr was crafted from torment, Tenno. Take control of her rage.

 

"...leaving her scarred, angry..."

"..take control of HER rage."

Doesn't jive with the 'frames are machines' thought, does it? It's explicitly referencing the frame's emotions.

Also it refers to the frame having a gender, something that a machine, biological or not, usually has.