To everyone that has seen Devstream 71 and still oppose genderswap

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

Oh I already made my point about this, but let me add one more thing :
DO NOT MAKE IT TennoGen.

With all due my respect to the buds in Steam Workshop - I am mostly not amused by the models and pricing. This is some EA/Ubisoft level of things going down. On the other hand, I did purchase an Rubido Rhino Skin for 25 cents. So maybe if they "nerf" the price tag, or flat out pay the creators and introduce those trough the in game shop, I can stand behind it. 
 

Yep. I would LOVE to get that awesome looking Mag helmet. But it's 6'49$CAN... WIth that money you can buy yourself a "decent" game on steam. 

[letir]

4 hours ago, Chipputer said:

We can. A feminine attitude versus a male one is a completely different thing. Saryn's attitude put onto a male figure would do nothing more than leave us with a feminine male figure-- a particularly pissed one, but still.

Saryn was specifically designed to be a female with a specific attitude and aesthetic to accompany that. Switching it to male would require completely redoing that and would be better off as a completely separate frame.

Looks like you never going deep enough into Rules of Internet and GB fanart. There is plenty of good examples of GB even most manliest/feminie charaters.

 

Attidtude and character is important. Aesthetics and appearance of simply a means to express the character, to emphasize the the desired traits, to make it deeper, but it's not a main thing. Good artist can visualise same character and his inner world through any barrier, be it gender or even species difference. Warframes are just infested robots, so any fanart on them almost counts like "humanization" of character anyway.

 

To go with your example, Saryn.

What is her character? Daring, imposing, self centered, egoistic. Going in battle in full attire, with noble grace, on heels, it's just screaming: "I'm VIP here, and don't give a damn about your claims!"

Her "feminie" part is least important in this. There is plenty of ways to "Saryn'ish" feeling in male form.

Make him an imposing noble who goes into battle in an elegant suit, who stands on the battlefield like a king and asserts his superiority with each step through precisious, over the edge, movements

This is true Saryn. Boobs and butt dosen't matter - character does.

Edited March 21, 2016 by letir

[arch111]

I often see posts that male and female models can not trade places.

Yeah . Totally impossible right?

[Mogar]

All this talk about lore when its just cosmetics. You're going to tell me that the Movember mustaches or the Christmas weapon skins have lore too?

[tnccs215]

44 minutes ago, Mogar said:

All this talk about lore when its just cosmetics. You're going to tell me that the Movember mustaches or the Christmas weapon skins have lore too?

are you telling me this is a one-month-only event in support of dying people?

[Mogar]

6 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

are you telling me this is a one-month-only event in support of dying people?

Did you even read my comment? I'm specifically talking to those saying gender swap can't happen because of lore. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Mogar

[tnccs215]

2 hours ago, letir said:

Looks like you never going deep enough into Rules of Internet and GB fanart. There is plenty of good examples of GB even most manliest/feminie charaters.

 

Attidtude and character is important. Aesthetics and appearance of simply a means to express the character, to emphasize the the desired traits, to make it deeper, but it's not a main thing. Good artist can visualise same character and his inner world through any barrier, be it gender or even species difference. Warframes are just infested robots, so any fanart on them almost counts like "humanization" of character anyway.

 

To go with your example, Saryn.

What is her character? Daring, imposing, self centered, egoistic. Going in battle in full attire, with noble grace, on heels, it's just screaming: "I'm VIP here, and don't give a damn about your claims!"

Her "feminie" part is least important in this. There is plenty of ways to "Saryn'ish" feeling in male form.

Make him an imposing noble who goes into battle in an elegant suit, who stands on the battlefield like a king and asserts his superiority with each step through precisious, over the edge, movements

This is true Saryn. Boobs and butt dosen't matter - character does.

Let's go beyond that.

I might oppose this whole business, but a character's gender is part of their personality, not their body.

the person you answered to was being relatively prejudicial, admiring that Saryn has to be a woman because she is (though a very particular type) feminine.

It is 2016. We should be well beyond that.

That is, altering Saryn's sex does not (and should not) have to be accompanied by an alteration to her gender: After all, being a femme fatale is intrinsic to Saryn, and while giving her apparently male forms would not alter that (because a poison is their personality, not their body), changing her gender would.

In short, if people can't deal with a femme fatale Saryn that happens to have no breasts and has a mad six pack, than maybe they shouldn't ask for alternative sex skins in the first place.

[tnccs215]

7 minutes ago, Mogar said:

Did you even read my comment? I'm specifically talking to those saying gender swap can't happen because of lore. 

And it cant. It is lore breaking.

Moframe is hold for one month in order to support cancer victims, ence it gets a pass.

This would be a permanent thing in support of people that would rather pay than to deal with their inability to play another sex.

[Mogar]

4 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

And it cant. It is lore breaking.

Moframe is hold for one month in order to support cancer victims, ence it gets a pass.

This would be a permanent thing in support of people that would rather pay than to deal with their inability to play another sex.

Then what about the Christmas skins? Does that also get a pass even though the skin is permanent?

[Guest]

whats about this genderthings ?

im male, and then exists female which i love, thats it

for what is this all discussed here, no life, bored, ideas, psychological problems with being a woman or man ? this is not the place for this

can you imagine some heros discussing in the battlefield "gender-BS" beside saving the universe ? can you imagine that in real if you work hard for you cash or you are creative in your job ? nevermind ...

open somewhere in the web some genderforum and discuss it, THERE ! ... honestly ^^)

[tnccs215]

1 minute ago, Mogar said:

Then what about the Christmas skins? Does that also get a pass even though the skin is permanent?

Those are different.

Either they blend in so perfectly that they are downright acceptable (such as the frost skin), or they are so ridiculous that they become tolerable exactly because of their ludicrousness.

And, ironically,those last ones usually just go to the closet until the next year's festivity, when they are used once or twice and then never again.

There is only so much tolerance for lorebreaking things.

 

Also, everyone really has to understand: It is sexswap, not genderswap. I can gender swap my rhino by putting a mirage stance on him. Hell, half my warframes are gender swapped.

[MagPrime]

I would post the link to the definitions again but last time two people tried to rip me a new one for it, so I'll pass this time.

As to lore breaking; what lore?  We know nothing of why the frames look the way they do.

Personally, at this point I wish DE would just neutral all the frames and sell sex specific skins as stand alone cosmetics.

[tnccs215]

16 minutes ago, aoguro_ said:

whats about this genderthings ?

im male, and then exists female which i love, thats it

for what is this all discussed here, no life, bored, ideas, psychological problems with being a woman or man ? this is not the place for this

can you imagine some heros discussing in the battlefield "gender-BS" beside saving the universe ? can you imagine that in real if you work hard for you cash or you are creative in your job ? nevermind ...

open somewhere in the web some genderforum and discuss it, THERE ! ... honestly ^^)

dude, this is a forum and this topic isn't exactly hurting anyone. So far.

You are not forced to read this. You can perfectly ignore this topic.

And we aren't heroes on the battlefield saving the universe. We are people with different personalities and ideals on a socially dogmatic society (changing, yes, but still is). We argue and discuss because that's how you deal with problems. As long as this doesn't degenerate in an insult battle, it is perfectly ok to exist.

Plus, you can be sure this thing is being closely moderated. Hell, I can sense [DE]Danielle eye on us. When this goes wrong, it will be locked. Until than, either contribute to the conversation, or please, go away.

Edited March 21, 2016 by tnccs215

[tnccs215]

1 minute ago, Noamuth said:

 

 

Personally, at this point I wish DE would just neutral all the frames.

Agreed. We might be wrong but, so far, doesn't seem like it makes much sense for sex to even exist on a Warframe. More ambiguity seems much more fitting.

 

[Necrius]

In future DE will either flesh out frames' "personalities" or introduce gender choice. Or make up something else to shut down this topic.

[Mogar]

5 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Those are different.

Either they blend in so perfectly that they are downright acceptable (such as the frost skin), or they are so ridiculous that they become tolerable exactly because of their ludicrousness.

And, ironically,those last ones usually just go to the closet until the next year's festivity, when they are used once or twice and then never again.

There is only so much tolerance for lorebreaking things.

 

Also, everyone really has to understand: It is sexswap, not genderswap. I can gender swap my rhino by putting a mirage stance on him. Hell, half my warframes are gender swapped.

Sex-swap/Gender-swap aside it seems that you want to give things like that a pass for no apparent reason. Why does lore have to play a factor in cosmetics at all? It's cosmetic who cares? I don't see why a mustache or swinging around a candy cane gets a pass just because it's too ridiculous or it's for a good cause. From what I've read it seems as though most people think it's ridiculous to have a sex/gender swap skin. Does that not in turn mean it gets a pass because it's too ridiculous according to what you're saying? 

It breaks the lore too much, it's ridiculous! = Get's a pass for ridiculousness right?

And who's monitoring the tolerance level of lore breaking things? The only people should be DE and from the last stream it looks like they're pretty ok with the idea. Yes they said that it's not very likely but they seem to be ok with the idea of it. If they are than why is everyone else going nuts about it?

What about color palettes or landing craft skins? There's no lore in those. But that gets a free pass? Why should we be allowed to change colors on Warframes if it's not in the lore? Does it get a pass because it's a cosmetic? Because if so then the entire argument is invalid.

[MagPrime]

The lore breaking cosmetics can easily be explained away as "a interesting tradition ancient earthlings partook of and we Only have fragmented records to go off of, so we don't know why facial hair was a thing but here go"

[Mogar]

Just now, Noamuth said:

The lore breaking cosmetics can easily be explained away as "a interesting tradition ancient earthlings partook of and we Only have fragmented records to go off of, so we don't know why facial hair was a thing but here go"

That was going to be my next point. If theres no lore to explain it then you can just make one. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Mogar

[kubbi]

I'd love the option too but DE already said that its not happening. Kinda pointless to discuss.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, kubbi said:

I'd love the option too but DE already said that its not happening. Kinda pointless to discuss.

Except this is a topic about how DE said they're open to it...

[Inugami8]

It would be nice but for me it would add very little to the game. Usually when I'm playing I completely forget about how the frame looks and focus on the task at hand. It would also be a problem all the time it would take to make an alternate model for each frame, they could use that same time to add new frames (Would you rather have 40 re-skins or 40 new frames? Lets say a new frame takes longer to create because of the animations/abilities, x2 required time. I would still take the 20 frames).

[Naftal]

I'd rather see them spend time on idle animations to make them also change running and shooting animations. This takes a lot of work but not nearly as much as creating a new model for every frame with new idle animations. It also adds much more to the game in my opinion.

[MagPrime]

I thought DE loosely agreed to player made swap skins, not making them in house.

[Naftal]

Just now, Noamuth said:

I thought DE loosely agreed to player made swap skins, not making them in house.

Oh ok. Sounds like they won't have new animations then. I hope there won't be any issues with armor/syandana clipping, since I doubt the content creators can be forced to fix their work after it's been released.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Naftal said:

Oh ok. Sounds like they won't have new animations then. I hope there won't be any issues with armor/syandana clipping, since I doubt the content creators can be forced to fix their work after it's been released.

There will always be clipping issues, regardless of who makes it.