There are only 6 major roles for frames in the game and Trinity dominates almost half of them

[Fifield]

22 hours ago, Currilicious said:

In all games, you play the main character in a story, your power level is by far greater than all the minor characters, AKA mobs.

Assuming you want the same rewards as for challenging content, I guess that's a legitimate counterargument, albeit a minority one.  Probably the only legitimate one in this thread.

My whole clan quit because the game is too easy so I suspect DE is losing far more players than it gains.

 

Edited March 21, 2016 by [DE]Danielle

[Currilicious]

2 minutes ago, Fifield said:

Assuming you want the same rewards as for challenging content, I guess that's a legitimate counterargument, albeit a minority one.  Probably the only legitimate one in this thread.

My whole clan quit because the game is too easy so I suspect DE is losing far more players than it gains.

@Phoenix1992 Try reading the post again.

Well I'm not saying the game has to be easy because you're the lead character.

I'm pointing out that if content requires high levels of planning and precision in execution, most will be locked out of it or are put off by that level of commitment. Diversity takes a hit also because of it.

I like how this game is still relatively casual friendly. You basically just start any mission, even Sorties with any properly leveled gear you want to play and still have a fighting chance.

I did the Sorties today totally random. No pre-planning. In all three missions, there was no Trinity. It turned out okay. Some revives here and there (damn those sappers and techs), some moments of chaos. But, it's doable.

Would it be way easy if I took the time to form a squad with the best frames for each mission? Definitely.

But evidently that is not a necessity. Currently that's still a choice. I say leave it that way.

[vazerd68]

5 hours ago, Currilicious said:

Then I guess we see games differently.

I would rather have an "easy" game and challenge myself with my own set of rules than have the game define that for me.

Some will argue that means doing things inefficiently. My question would be, do you want a challenge or do you want that shiny loot?

Using the nerf route is a downward cycle. Min-maxers will always find other mechanisms to maximize efficiency, with ease of execution. Eventually, another round of nerf cries will commence. This will be a never-ending chase for "balance", at the expense of players that just want to have fun and not play the game like an Olympic event.

 

you're pretty much on point. I like the game to set the boundaries for me. I consider it to be the developper's job. as a min-maxer if i find the top 10 best builds and they have like under 5% difference in gameplay efficiency, I'll consider them to be equal and switch between them (which isn't the current state of the game at all). Finally I like to play warframe to slaugher massive waves of ennemies, which I could still do in lower level missions. I prefer chalenge overall. Not especielly being challenged but the feeling of succeding at something difficult, like when you complete the Jordas Verdict raid for the first time. it feels like a zelda temple : puzzles are hard enough so you don't find the solution instantly but you still sorve it by trying things out and exploring the level.

[J-Reyno]

I also agree that Trinity is far too dominant when it comes to direct support/replenishment, and that has been an issue to me for years.  But I don't feel she needs to be nerfed.  What frustrates me is that no other frame is allowed to have a level of support that comes even close.  She regenerates health, shields, and energy better than every other frame.  When another frame can do one of these things, it's negligible by comparison. 

It would be nice if a frame could match her in one of these roles, while also being interesting/fun to play (as Trinity is not, imo).

 

[MarcusGraves]

4 hours ago, dandin3 said:

LOL. well sorry i disagree with u but i think that how you "categories" the roles of the frame it's not right.

I still think you don't have a grasp of what's going on cause not once during this topic have I made a post categorizing any of the frames.

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

22 hours ago, Fifield said:

Hope so.  That will be entertaining.

I presume this is what all the weak replies are masking for.  Why people even care about Trinity is beyond me.  Ugly frame, boring to play and ruining the gameplay in Warframe.

 

This  is where you lost any ounce of credibility your argument had. To say that any reply is weak when making a statement like this is borderline laughable.

If I recall you are the same individual claiming that the lack of difficulty is the reason behind the rest of your clan choosing to quit the game in a similar thread. And yet, you couldn't care less for your fellow players thoughts and concerns, claiming they do not matter. Do you want to lose more players? That's exactly what will happen with a mindset like the one you have.

Lastly, Trinity is indeed very coveted at times, but she is in no way mandatory for 90% of the content. What you are doing is trying to single out one frame as the root problem instead of realizing she is just another symptom. 

Next time, how about you actually post a legit topic instead of declaring yourself the smartest man in the room. Oh, and don't bash the devs (basically that entire statement I quoted) because it'll get attention for all the wrong reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ada_Wong_SG]

I would say as Main Trinity player 

She is able to provide 

1) Energy Support (EV)

2) HP and Shield Restoring (Blessing)
3) Single target killing (WOL + EV)

 *3 which a lot of time the enemy ends up getting killed by others

 

My main philosophy lies with Trinity being the frame that can provide
Energy, HP and Shield Restoration would overpower any form of skill.

Most frame's logic is DPS oriented, which kill the enemy before you are killed 
generally because you do not have the regenerative ability.

This goes off when QT, Rage and Life Strike can be practically used on any frame 
to break the regenerative rule.

A Healer goes nearly the opposite, since HP and Shield is what keep you alive in a mission.
If the enemy main objective is to kill you (emptying your HP and Shield) then Trinity just go around 
trolling the enemy by restoring everyone's HP and Shield.

Don't be fascinated by this restorative abilities, Trinity has no crowd control... no damage oriented skill
except picking 1 target out of a wave of 20 - 30 enemies with WOL + EV... 

She is heavily relied on weapons to keep the enemy from closing in.

One of my key criteria of evaluating a new weapon actually is 
"ability to keep trinity alive in a mission"... because she is has no other way of surviving 
other than shooting the enemies dead with weapons.

[Fifield]

50 minutes ago, Ada_Wong_SG said:

"ability to keep trinity alive in a mission"... because she is has no other way of surviving 
other than shooting the enemies dead with weapons.

Apart from massive damage reduction, instant full heal+shields, overshields and energy almost any time she wants it.

@Kiko try attacking the argument instead of me.

[rawr1254]

6 hours ago, Fifield said:

You must be playing a different game.  Trinity is easily the most demanded frame for teams.  Probably 3x Frost, the next most in demand.  You cannot do LoR or most Sorties 2-3 without her.

Really? That's funny cause I never demand a Trinity and I really don't care at all if I have one in my team or not. A Trinity usually winds up being another teamate Im gonna need to keep reviving after 20 minutes of survival. Frost is even less wanted on my list considering I dont do defense much anymore. I don't give a crap what frame you use as long as I don't have to deal with you going down every 30 seconds after 20 minutes. 

And in terms of sorties no you dont need a Trinity. I'm sorry that you do but others don't.

And raids...yea we need a bless/EV trin(2 different builds) But another 2 mandatory frames is a carry loki and a blind mirage. Also on that list is a vauban and maybe a nova. There are always going to be frames that get played more than others. It's that way with A LOT of games.

Using the excuse of "you need a Trinity so nerf her" is a horrible excuse to get something nerf and makes anything you say thus forth pointless.

Edited March 21, 2016 by rawr1254

[Fifield]

Still waiting for a counterargument other than 'I like easy games'.

[Hellmaker2004]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

Apart from massive damage reduction, instant full heal+shields, overshields and energy almost any time she wants it.

@Kiko try attacking the argument instead of me.

All of her ability's are considered two handed actions, the only one she can cast mid air is Blessing and none of her ability's are instant.

 

Well of Life ~1 second

Energy Vampire ~0.5 second

Link ~0.6 second

Blessing ~1 second.

 

She only offers Overshield if you are using a mod slot on a augment and allies inside Energy Vampires range have maximum energy, and to optimize her ability's you either have to choice high Duration(Link, Blessing will last a long time and she can "stun" one foe) Or low Duration(Energy Vampire pulses quickly).

 

Trinity's base value for Energy Vampire is 100 energy per cast over it's duration for 50 energy cost.

A Pizza offers 100 energy instantly and then a additional 300 energy over its duration. A lot of people are also starting to use Zenurik passive and it can offer up to 4 energy per second as a passive.

 

Trinity may be giving out energy to allies but she is easily replaced by consumable items and passive regeneration, what she does great is support for allies and personal survivability, what she does not is offer any damage, any Crowd Control (Besides 1 - 2 targets) or any Damage buffs.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Hellmaker2004

[Fifield]

 

18 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

she is easily replaced by consumable items and passive regeneration

Your dishonest argument was already shot down.  Why are you repeating it?

What is it about balancing Trinity and other frames that scares you so much?

[Hellmaker2004]

Rebinding a key is something considered a high bar on the difficulty scale?

[RealPandemonium]

Warframe isn't complicated enough to have roles.  Everyone does damage with their stupid-OP weapons, and frame powers make the game easy enough to sleep through.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

2 hours ago, Fifield said:

Still waiting for a counterargument other than 'I like easy games'.

Because being Trinity forces you to fight like playing traditional shooter game instead 
of ability casting like Mage in a MMORPG that is an utter disgrace to actual skill in playing a shooter game.

Her skill mostly just provide the basic healing and energy regeneration, but no enemies have been killed 
by Trinity without direct visual aiming (even WOL and EV you need to aim)

like nuking the map with Saryn or Ember.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Ada_Wong_SG

[Fifield]

On 20/03/2016 at 3:31 PM, Jangkrik said:

Also, why isn't aggro-ing/tanking enemies a category?

Thought about this and, you're right, it is a role.  Probably a minor one though?

I don't know if a recent frame has such a skill (due to having quit this game for being too easy) but otherwise it would make a possible niche for a new one eg all enemies within 30m attack you.  This frame would be used for babysitting newbies.

@Ada I didn't understand your comment.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Fifield

[tripletriple]

17 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Warframe isn't complicated enough to have roles.  Everyone does damage with their stupid-OP weapons, and frame powers make the game easy enough to sleep through.

This is true. Except for trinity. Part of it is how overwhelmingly selfish our tanks are. DE has no idea how to make a team tank.   

[Deejudanne]

Stop nerf trin so much wtf she is like the most nerfed frame gtfo

[Fifield]

17 minutes ago, Deejudanne said:

Stop nerf trin so much wtf she is like the most nerfed frame gtfo

And still the most OP.  Also, she's just a piece of code.  You have an unhealthy attachment.

[Deejudanne]

1 hour ago, Fifield said:

And still the most OP.  Also, she's just a piece of code.  You have an unhealthy attachment.

What ya mean? She does exactly what a support frame is supposed to do 

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Some guys will never sleep until all frames skills be nerfed and ruined and this game became a stupid ordinary shooter

[Khormalys]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)xKAIOWAx said:

Some guys will never sleep until all frames skills be nerfed and ruined and this game became a stupid ordinary shooter

So true and then when the meta will be the frame with highest EHP they'll continue to call for nerf till all frames are the same

[Fifield]

1 hour ago, (PS4)xKAIOWAx said:

Some guys will never sleep until all frames skills be nerfed and ruined and this game became a stupid ordinary shooter

Worst strawman and slippery slope fallacy ever.

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html

Edited March 22, 2016 by Fifield

[Venomzz0]

25 minutes ago, Fifield said:

Worst strawman and slippery slope fallacy ever.

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html

Kinda ironic since you have been using fallacies since you made this thread dude...

[Fifield]

1 minute ago, Venomzz0 said:

Kinda ironic since you have been using fallacies since you made this thread dude...

Name one.