I've never seen anyone play Mesa

[RealPandemonium]

52 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Shatter shield consumes too much energy and duration is bad and it does worse job than nova's ult, equinox peaceful provocation pacify and so on. 

Wtf are you smoking, sir?  75 (18.75) energy for a long-lasting 95% ranged damage reduction is pretty amazing.  Mesa can pile on duration, including NM, with pretty much no downside.

[-Temp0-]

1 minute ago, RealPandemonium said:

Wtf are you smoking, sir?  75 (18.75) energy for a long-lasting 95% ranged damage reduction is pretty amazing.  Mesa can pile on duration, including NM, with pretty much no downside.

Not nealy. That "95%" reduction without the slow effect of any kind under sustained fire in something like survival is nothing. Come to think of it, since it's only bullets and projectiles, even Zephyr laughs at her. Because Zephyr's turbulence makes it 100% reduction without the need of any strenght mods whatsoever. And with innate - aura polarity you will never run our of energy for it to boot.

[RealPandemonium]

13 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Not nealy. That "95%" reduction without the slow effect of any kind under sustained fire in something like survival is nothing. Come to think of it, since it's only bullets and projectiles, even Zephyr laughs at her. Because Zephyr's turbulence makes it 100% reduction without the need of any strenght mods whatsoever. And with innate - aura polarity you will never run our of energy for it to boot.

 

My bad, I also support effective invulnerability for all frames.  Let's bring back radials that one-shot the whole map, too.  

Edited March 27, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[-Temp0-]

Yeah only if you were playing zephyr you would've known she's not invincible. Because of the mechanics of the turbulence, 99% of the times when she's used she's used against corpus. And corpus have 1. melee units 2. sapping ospreys 3. now also bursas. So it's never 100% safe, only if you're paying very close attention - which never happens in a mess that warframe survivals are. But even so, better than taking 5% damage from all the sources around and being vulnarable to the same things all at once.

Again, wrong. Wukong requires even more management than Mesa, Rhino still scales poorly at high levels and Valkyr can't shoot in her ult. Mesa's moveset is more practical. She's also faster and gets a damage boost to her equipped weapon thanks to her L2. 

Wukong requires two things - 1. rage 2. vitality (+vigor optional). There. And to recast your defy after like 2 "deaths" to keep it perfectly safe and keep that rage useful. Can also use primary, secondary, melee + his staff.

Valkyr can't shoot (still can do a trucktone of damage and very fast tho), but Mesa with that horrible ult can't shoot anything besides her normal weapons either, such wow for a gunslinger frame. Chroma at least gets a bonus for damage with his abilities.

Different folks and all that, but I can't see how Mesa is easier to play. I thought Wukong's gonna be pretty hard to play until I did, with Mesa it's vice versa. Abilities seem pretty easy to use, but she's just too problematic to bother from all the perspectives. Unless you're in love and missing badly Lawbringer from Borderlands or Hunter from Destiny. And I can admit I don't like those, never played. To me their abilities are plain boring, and so is Mesa's. 

Quote

She's not garbage, you just need to actually play her. No godmode or exalted weapons just you.

Translation - only managable mostly in solo and around medium levels. No exceptional skills whatsoever, just shoot everything until it's dead. Mostly loved because of the aesthetics and by people who like "challenge" as they call it.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[(PSN)acethefox]

6 hours ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Shooting gallery is a trash. It doesn't need to be "shared" for all the group. Shatter shield consumes too much energy and duration is bad and it does worse job than nova's ult, equinox peaceful provocation pacify and so on. 

You do realize that if everything was toggle, it'd be impossible to maintain right? Also with shatter shield I tend to outlast not just pub rhinos but rhinos who I've taught how to get ludicrous rhino skin. And shooting gallery tends to save teams especially when you stick together, you know as you have to with all the other abilities you mentioned to work as well.

[-Temp0-]

My main problem is with the shooting gallery. Very interesting and useful ability in concept, but only in solo. I don't understand how DE could just let it be like that, either make it like roar (all allies in range affected) or let only Mesa make use of it. In it's current state it's very dissapointing. 

Quote

And shooting gallery tends to save teams especially when you stick together, you know as you have to with all the other abilities you mentioned to work as well.

It's only "when". I can't control what other people do (and naturally shoudln't be able to). And they tend to wander off unless it's demanded by the host to camp in one place. But in this case people usually want other frames, like vauban, frost, ev, nekr, ect.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[(PSN)acethefox]

1 minute ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

My main problem is with the shooting gallery. Very interesting and useful ability in concept, but only in solo. I don't understand how DE could just let it be like that, either make it like roar (all allies in range affected) or let only Mesa make use of it. In it's current state it's very dissapointing. 

It's only "when". I can't control what other people do (and naturally shoudln't be able to). And tend to wander off unless it's demanded by the host to camp in one place. But in this case people usually want other frames, like vauban, frost, ev, nekr, ect.

The demand for certain frames is really a issue with the meta. Also you ever see mesa, vauban, frost and nova in a defense? It's ungodly.

But I will agree shooting gallery would be much nicer in teams if it worked like roar.

[Dasblackman]

Mesa is my main and I love her so much. Got her in 4 runs of Alad V after praying to RNGsus. It was fate

[Arcira]

I used to play mesa a lot before the rework of her ultimate. I like the concept of the rework but not the execution. In fact these changes where a straight nerf without compensation. One reason are the ridiculously high energy costs compared to other abilities of the same category. Another thing I do not like is the root mechaninc and the.ineptitude to use other abilities. I don't see a reason why this is necessary.

Shatter shield is great and shooting gallery ok, but balistic battery (like most of the primary abilities) is kinda lackluster. Maybe it could be changed into an active/passive mix ability. The first phase is always active (no energy costs or something) and collect "charge" as usual. If 100% is reached you can use balistic battery and mesa uses one of her pistoles and fires a single shoot with high damage or maybe even a guaranteed oneshoot on a single enemy target.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Arcira

[-Temp0-]

Honestly, her 1 nad 4 can be changed to pretty much anything, the potential is all here. As an example. And shoting gallery can be fixed. Then she'll be more than fine, but now it's solo only and for fun only.

[EnderDDT]

On 3/23/2016 at 2:54 PM, EmptyDevil said:

I'm struggling to see what you're actually complaining about to be honest. You should know that it's the basic weapon mods that make the ability better, not the weapon itself. There are no 'best weapons' for the Exalted abilities anymore.

I understand what they are talking about, the best weapon for the mod setup for the exaulted weapon ability may not be the best weapon for other purposes. Let me give you an example with Ivara.

My favorite weapon currently is a Drakoon, a shotgun that can be charged to hit at range and has natural blowthrough (when charged) to help it hit even more enemies. There are plenty of times I would like to use this weapon, but when I am focusing on Ivara's Artimus bow I have to remember that her ability only scales off of rifle/bow mods, so the shotgun is worthless to it.

My second favorite weapon is a dread, which is even nice in that the recommended build (crit focused) is the same as what a lot of people recommend for Artemus Bow. The only problem is that the draw time and need for accuracy make the bow best for singling out targets. If I need to do that I would be much more effective to just go into prowl and shotgun the preferred enemy with Artimus bow for a near guaranteed one-shot kill, or even 3 shots can be loosed in about a second (much faster than with the dread). Furthermore I have found that Artemus Bow works best with about a 1 second draw time, any faster and you partially loose the ability to release a quick shotgun like attack before the thing starts charging and you get a spread instead. This means that adding something like the "Spring Loaded Chamber" mod or any other fire rate mob beyond the first, which would be great for the bow, would hurt my exaulted ability.

Now granted, this may only be personal preference, but it is still a very compelling personal reason for me to pick another weapon. And not being able to use my favorite weapon if I want to use the full potential of my ability is somewhat annoying.

That said, this choice is neither bad nor unique to exalted weapons. If I want to maximize Ivara's Artemus Bow than I require ability power, but if I want to maximize her prowl than I need duration and efficency; and you can't maximize both. Even the choice of maximizing defense, maximizing abilities, or some balance in warframe mods is a choice. The game is better for letting us have that choice rather than just forcing us to build one "best" setup.

So long as Mesa's ability is balanced with the understanding that mods will be applied, I encourage the change. Let her have that extra depth. It should probably only work with handgun mods, both for uniformity with other abilities and the obvious fact that Mesa's ability uses handguns, but I'm not sure what else can really be said on that particular point. Plenty might be said about other aspects of her ability, such as letting her move during Peacemaker use, or her other abilities, such as the jump mechanic of her Shooting Gallery; but I don't know that most anyone has a problem with giving Peacemaker that type of scaling.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

You know it Jut occurred to me that There Seem to be a decent few Mesa Mains Here

Maybe Nobody Ever sees Mesa Because Mesa Players always Play solo to avoid Sharing their buff and Effectively losing 75% its Duration while gaining an Unbearable Re cast delay while it cycles through your squad

Just cause you never see them doesn't mean nobody plays the frame

Perhaps DE could Release public Frame Usage %

It could Really Help the Player base Give Focused Feedback on frames that need it most

[-Temp0-]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Crimson_Judgment said:

You know it Jut occurred to me that There Seem to be a decent few Mesa Mains Here

Maybe Nobody Ever sees Mesa Because Mesa Players always Play solo to avoid Sharing their buff and Effectively losing 75% its Duration while gaining an Unbearable Re cast delay while it cycles through your squad

Just cause you never see them doesn't mean nobody plays the frame

Yeah it means you can't efficiently play in coop. Which is not really better.

I mean yeah we can make shooting gallery's duration 15 sec and this thing will blind everything every 3-4 second but honestly.

Quote

Perhaps DE could Release public Frame Usage %

I thought there was one somewhere? At the very least I remember that Banshee was the least played and I think Loki was one of the most if I'm not mistaken. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[cooleyoo2000]

Let's do a run through

Her first ability I think its ballistic battery sucks. It is pretty much the most useless ability and isn't useful against anyone.

Low level enemies are easy to kill

By the time the enemies are mid tier the ability is useless and let's not even talk about end game

Her second ability shooting gallery is actually OK but you know what sucks about it. One player at a time. I mean 10 secs per person with a 10-30 sec waiting time per person is unfair. The ability needs to change.

Her third ability shattershield is also decent but needs to have a 'natural' mechanic to it such as being able to scale well against enemies. Also those bullets flying back do no damage at least let it do a substantial amount of damage.

As for peacemaker it is a good move but energy efficiency is unfair and their is a point where peace maker actually becomes useless which is around lvl 38-40 

All in all mesa is a boring and useless frame to have nowadays and needs to get both a buff and a rework. Her abilities don't scale well and the abilities in it of them self's lack "wow" factor.

[rawr1254]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Crimson_Judgment said:

 

Perhaps DE could Release public Frame Usage %

Last frame usage rankings were this that I know of https://warframe.com/news/devstream-65-overview

Least used is Banshee :[

Edited March 28, 2016 by rawr1254

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

5 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

Last frame usage rankings were this that I know of https://warframe.com/news/devstream-65-overview

Least used is Banshee :[

Yeah but that was months ago Things could change a publicly available Usage Ranking would Be beneficial In pinpointing which frames could use some love and Help focus on why the Community doesn't Use that frame and what they would do to change it

I don't know Maybe I'm Overestimating the community a bit but i have faith

[tripletriple]

On 3/23/2016 at 3:26 PM, DERebecca said:

Just a few quick conversational remarks about Mesa, particularly Peacemaker.

As Venomzz0 was points out 'and if Peacemaker scaled off of secondary mods it would be godlike'. I was recently discussing the fact that almost all other Warframe-unique weapon abilities (Exalted Blade, Hysteria, Artemis) scale with underlying weapon-type mods, and now we are prototyping Peacemaker to scale with Secondary Weapon Mods to possibly join the club. So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!


Edit: Also cleaning up this thread a bit. A reminder that constructive remarks are best, and a thank you to those in the thread that worked to salvage constructive discourse.

Can you guys please do something about shooting gallery. It is garbage, because of the unreliability. On a side not can we have an interactive and good first ability on her? 

Edited March 29, 2016 by tripletriple

[FrostedMike]

My biggest issue with Mesa is energy consumation. I took her one time to a mission and lost all of my energy in 10 seconds. The concept of the abilities is great. Shooting Gallery and Shutter Shield are amazing abilities, Peacemaker do a decent damage, Ballistic Battery is not that good.

Mesa is probably on the list for a rework, I'll wait and judge later.

[tischkanteVS]

Hi, im tischkante and I Main Mesa.

 

Ballistic Battery: 150% Amp on a Stigris shot? YOU BET.

Shatter Shield? Lowbob-Reduce but fine as it is.

Shooting Gallery? Wtf how OP it is. Run Solo and everything in range won't ever hit you, everything gets disabled.  Infested get blind, grineer have broken weapons and blind eyes, corpus just walk alone into your nukes. Best thing would be melee Mesa with shooting gallery, what a Powerbox hahahahahahha

 

Peacemaker? Why is it not an exalted ability like hysteria/artemis/exalted blade? Don't know and dont understand BUT it 1 shots everything up to lvl 60. even in lvl 100 sorties against corpus its fine. ID just make her Peacemaker an exalted with secondary mods and all would be good.

For everything else there is Mastercard.

[TheGoodDarius]

Personally, I think Shooting Gallery and Shattered Shield are very good abilities to keep her alive (and her team) I've got some issue with Ballistic Battery and Peacemaker. 

The first ability doesn't much of a use which really shouldn't be with a first ability. Think of Spores of Saryn or even Slash Dash. They deal some damage but also have utility that can be used in high level missions as well. Probably, a good thing for Ballistic Battery would be that as you store damage and keep it there, Mesa gets some bonus (that it can also make Peacemaker more powerful or her primary weapons more precise) that you can decide to sacrifice to deal an incredible amount of damage in one shot. 

As for Peacemaker, it's an ability that consume a lot of energy and that need a build made specifically for it to be used on high missions as well, and because it decreases duration or efficiency one way or the other which that weights heavily on Mesa's survival. If it could use the mods on the secondary weapon, it would mean that you can just use an intensify and keep a high duration on her. It would also mean personalize the type of damage it deals and making it a very good critical weapon (red crits to be precise.).  

[CrudShuzKong]

On 3/26/2016 at 7:35 PM, Nomen_Nescio said:

Not nealy. That "95%" reduction without the slow effect of any kind under sustained fire in something like survival is nothing. Come to think of it, since it's only bullets and projectiles, even Zephyr laughs at her. Because Zephyr's turbulence makes it 100% reduction without the need of any strenght mods whatsoever. And with innate - aura polarity you will never run our of energy for it to boot.

You never played zephyr did you? Her 3 only works on non homing projectiles with flighttime. Shattershield outperforms turbulence in over 75% of cases. Also shattershield isnt the only defensive mechanism mesa has, she can stun enemies very effectively with her shooting gallery, so you will never have to tank sustained fire.

Source: zephyr and mesa are my favorite frames.

[DeMonkey]

On 3/22/2016 at 7:26 PM, DERebecca said:

So stay tuned if this is a prototype that interests you!

It doesn't in the slightest. I can already kill everything at Sortie level with Peacemaker, why would I be interested in more damage?

More damage is not what Peacemaker needs, it needs to allow movement to capitalise on the fact we're supposed to be Ninjas. 

[CrudShuzKong]

20 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It doesn't in the slightest. I can already kill everything at Sortie level with Peacemaker, why would I be interested in more damage?

More damage is not what Peacemaker needs, it needs to allow movement to capitalise on the fact we're supposed to be Ninjas. 

Even if it is just prowl-like movement, as long as you can bullet jump out of it to save yourself id be a lot more happy than now. Completely free movement would be even better though :)

[(XBOX)C0gnitive 0n3]

15 hours ago, rawr1254 said:

Last frame usage rankings were this that I know of https://warframe.com/news/devstream-65-overview

Least used is Banshee :[

Max range and efficiency Banshee on Heiracon is a GODDESS! To help me move around without getting harpooned, I've fitted Toxic Flight in her exilus slot. Since Heiracon has become a "thing" for gold cores - Banshee's been my most played frame. I'll admit that my gaming has become stale due to the fact that console users are now waiting weeks/months for the latest update and in the meantime, all I do is login for the daily reward and gold core farming.

I have a feeling that if Banshee received a slight buff to her armor, she'd move up in that "Most Used" chart.

[-Temp0-]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)C0gnitive 0n3 said:

Max range and efficiency Banshee on Heiracon is a GODDESS! To help me move around without getting harpooned, I've fitted Toxic Flight in her exilus slot. Since Heiracon has become a "thing" for gold cores - Banshee's been my most played frame. I'll admit that my gaming has become stale due to the fact that console users are now waiting weeks/months for the latest update and in the meantime, all I do is login for the daily reward and gold core farming.

I have a feeling that if Banshee received a slight buff to her armor, she'd move up in that "Most Used" chart.

Doubt it. Slight buff will change nothing. Banshee's abilities, however very nice and strong, are far from being easy to use. There are other cc abilities that arguably costs less, need less dancing around and allows you to move freely and use your weapons.