What if the Sentients are the perfected Infestation?

[AdunSaveMe]

12 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

I didn't say anything about it not being an infestation in progress or about it being outside his POV. Many things don't have a time stamp, but their implementation after a specific event doesn't always mean it happened that way story wise.

Best not to confused development order with canon story. It's still arguably up for debate until proven otherwise.

I didn't say you did say that. It was just a statement.

If all the evidence points to one answer and nothing points to the other, the debate is a bit pointless. Why would development order and canon story not coincide here? The fact that a machine got infested after a guy gave the virus the ability to infest machinery in the development timeline directly supports the idea that it is also canon in the game's timeline, which, aside from retcons, most things are.

Edited March 25, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[EmptyDevil]

46 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

It may not be proven, but considering there's no evidence of Infested machinery prior to Alad V introducing the mutalist units, it's a pretty damn safe assumption.

Jordas Golem and Cephalon Simaris's synthesis imprint counts as evidence IMO. It's safe to assume that it was probably possible before Alad and that he merely upped their virulence.

[EmptyDevil]

46 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I didn't say you did say that. It was just a statement.

If all the evidence points to one answer and nothing points to the other, the debate is a bit pointless. Why would development order and canon story not coincide here? The fact that a machine got infested after a guy gave the virus the ability to infest machinery in the development timeline directly supports the idea that it is also canon in the game's timeline, which, aside from retcons, most things are.

Are we just going to ignore Cephalon Simaris's Imprints or that it's a possible retcon? I'd like to know your point of view on the matter because those imprints are chronicles of non-recent events. It doesn't make sense for it to be an imprint if it happened shortly after the mutalist events. One could even argue their ability to infect technology from the Ancient Healer imprint. The Lora Device of the twin healers had resulted in the faction gaining the ability to create an Ancient Healer Infested, when they absorbed one of them.

[Urlan]

The Simaris scan entry implied that Cephalon Jordas is an Orokin Era Frigate Cephalon. It would also explain how Jordas knows precepts that could sway and older antique ship Cephalon like Ordis. It stands to reason that J3 Golem is currently infesting a Corpus ship fleet but we have no evidence that Jordas was a recovered Cephalon that the Corpus pressed into service nor that Corpus are capable of creating Cephalons with their current tech.

As for the mutalists, while it is safe to safe that Alad V rediscovered the mutalist strain from his research into the technocyte used to make our warframes; it is possible that Alad V did not create the Mutalist entities so much as bring them mainstream. In Stolen Dreams, in the arcane machine chamber, you can see two infested Boilers seemingly petrified in darkened Technocyte vines near the machine's dais. When the machine is activated, the Arcane Boilers, seemingly ancient and hardened versions on the Alad V mutalist strain attack and must be put down to continue with the mission. It would be odd that these are Alad V's creations even if normal versions of the former Corpus Exec now roam the halls. The standard strain of infested that we fought prior to the mutalist incursions were primarily due to the intentional release of samples from the research of the Grineer Doctor Tengus and derelicts like those that housed Lephantis.

[Ibro156]

The Infested were originally a weapon to be used against the Sentients when they rebelled. But during the Infested were only able to control organic being, not robotic. But during the Muralist event, Alad V had made virus to evolve into muralist. Allowing to control of Robotic and even the AI (jordas quest). So maybe it's possible that the Infested could take over a Sentient drone.

[SilvaDreams]

6 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

The Infested were originally a weapon to be used against the Sentients when they rebelled. But during the Infested were only able to control organic being, not robotic. But during the Muralist event, Alad V had made virus to evolve into muralist. Allowing to control of Robotic and even the AI (jordas quest). So maybe it's possible that the Infested could take over a Sentient drone.

Well that should make you and everyone else think a bit.

Most people seem to think the sentients are robots but if the infested could only consume living matter why did the Orokin use it? I think the answer is clear, they are organic not mechanical and software.

[-Ryuurei-]

My theory is that the sentients were sent out to colonise new planets and ready them for the orokin, their main directory was to make it life sustaining and move on to the next world. As time went on and they replicated themselves this directory got split into several, find planets with life, destroy current life, repopulate(as this is far easier than making any random planet life-sustaining). The only sentient we know of is Hunhow, the sentient destroyer of worlds (aka phase 2 of the process). The sentients might have stumbled upon the origin system and seen a lot of life in it, thus they sent Hunhow to destroy all life there, so they could finish their job and make it habitable once more. All the time unaware that it was the orokin that created them in the first place (they never once seem to refer to this fact).

The infestation on the other hand was an effort to create something the sentients could not influence, but it would attack anything in sight, seeking only to consume and grow. After the fall of the orokin the grineer managed to drive the infestation back and it became near extinct, untill the events of once awake happened and the infested began to spread once more.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

8 hours ago, Ohmlink said:

Pretty sure sentients are heavily implied to be a Orokin invention that came back. Now the question is who shot first?

Greedo, obviously.

[DakotaStorm]

8 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

Read the Crewman lore. The Sentients are indeed invading from the Tau system, but it was actually the Orokin / early Corpus who invented them and put them there in the first place.

Out of curiosity, is there any proof that the corpus are descended from the orokin or is it speculation?

[CriticalFumble]

10 hours ago, Ohmlink said:

Pretty sure sentients are heavily implied to be a Orokin invention that came back. Now the question is who shot first?

Han shot first. 

I'm just going to toss this out here - who says that what we see as the Sentient[s?] are what the Sentient[s?] actually [is/are]? 

The synthesis text talks about an amorphous self replicating mass with a Void-contact self-destruct feature.  We know that Hunhow is Sentient, and he's scattered about in various fragments of his body.  Meanwhile the Lotus is also Sentient, but has a human-like body. 

So what if the Sentients aren't actually the rail-constructing drones the Orokin sent out, but instead beings that lived in the Tau system?  When the drones came they possessed them, and while they were more powerful for it, they also gained their vulnerability to the Void.  It would explain why they turned back around to the Origin system - the drones would just know how to make rails, and make more; but a techno-"demon" would want to find the mother load that their new bodies came from. 

Part of this is personal preference (not just another Skynet please).  Part of it though seems to jive with other elements in the story - transference, and possibly the origin of the infested hive mind. 

[SilvaDreams]

1 hour ago, DakotaStorm said:

Out of curiosity, is there any proof that the corpus are descended from the orokin or is it speculation?

The Corpus were the lower class of of the Orokin, most likely the Merchant, traders and haulers thus why they have the tech and the knowledge to use it.

Where as the Grineer were the genetically engineered slaves who rebelled as things began to fall apart under the events of the Tenno taking out the leaders  of the empire and the spread of the Infested.

[folklore504]

3 hours ago, CriticalFumble said:

Han shot first. 

I'm just going to toss this out here - who says that what we see as the Sentient[s?] are what the Sentient[s?] actually [is/are]? 

The synthesis text talks about an amorphous self replicating mass with a Void-contact self-destruct feature.  We know that Hunhow is Sentient, and he's scattered about in various fragments of his body.  Meanwhile the Lotus is also Sentient, but has a human-like body. 

So what if the Sentients aren't actually the rail-constructing drones the Orokin sent out, but instead beings that lived in the Tau system?  When the drones came they possessed them, and while they were more powerful for it, they also gained their vulnerability to the Void.  It would explain why they turned back around to the Origin system - the drones would just know how to make rails, and make more; but a techno-"demon" would want to find the mother load that their new bodies came from. 

Part of this is personal preference (not just another Skynet please).  Part of it though seems to jive with other elements in the story - transference, and possibly the origin of the infested hive mind. 

I thought the Sentients were actually supposed to be terraforming the Tau system.  In order to do that successfully and survive native flora, and fauna along with new weather/atmospheric conditions they would have been able to be pretty adaptable.  At least according to Natah, and I think crewman synthesis.

Think like the Grey Goo faction from petroglyphs Grey Goo, except far more advance.  As for the Sentient being machines like moa's or ospreys, crewman entry heavily implies they were a bio-construct of sort.   There also was mention of worm ships from the mag prime codex, which really seem to imply being a bio-constuct made by the Sentients. 

 

[shut]

4 hours ago, DakotaStorm said:

Out of curiosity, is there any proof that the corpus are descended from the orokin or is it speculation?

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synthesis could help shed a bit of light on this.

I don't know all the details, but to my understanding, all of the major factions in the game come from the Orokin in some way. The Grineer were created and selectively bred/cloned as slaves (who eventually got sick of their foul treatment and rebelled), and the Corpus were originally some sort of group that branched off the Orokin (the Crewman's lore mentions a "Crewman Project", and the Anti-MOA lore shows a Corpus guy who implies that he was once part of the Orokin Empire).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[CriticalFumble]

27 minutes ago, folklore504 said:

I thought the Sentients were actually supposed to be terraforming the Tau system.  In order to do that successfully and survive native flora, and fauna along with new weather/atmospheric conditions they would have been able to be pretty adaptable.  At least according to Natah, and I think crewman synthesis.

Think like the Grey Goo faction from petroglyphs Grey Goo, except far more advance.  As for the Sentient being machines like moa's or ospreys, crewman entry heavily implies they were a bio-construct of sort.   There also was mention of worm ships from the mag prime codex, which really seem to imply being a bio-constuct made by the Sentients. 

"Bio" might be a strong word.  They've taken existing ideas that already exist - adaptable nano machines, self-healing materials - and scaled it up.  When you get to the point where you've created a machine that is self sustaining and self-replicates, its basically an organism.  When you make the base components small enough and give them the ability to adapt to their environment, they're indistinguishable from natural life.  Which actually lends credence to the idea that the Infestation is a "rabid" version of the drones they made. 

In any case, you missed my point.  What if the adaptable machines built by the Orokin are not the same thing as a Sentient, like how a warframe is not a Tenno?  It could give a better reason for the Sentient threat than "because Skynet", if nothing else. 

[folklore504]

3 hours ago, CriticalFumble said:

"Bio" might be a strong word.  They've taken existing ideas that already exist - adaptable nano machines, self-healing materials - and scaled it up.  When you get to the point where you've created a machine that is self sustaining and self-replicates, its basically an organism.  When you make the base components small enough and give them the ability to adapt to their environment, they're indistinguishable from natural life.  Which actually lends credence to the idea that the Infestation is a "rabid" version of the drones they made. 

In any case, you missed my point.  What if the adaptable machines built by the Orokin are not the same thing as a Sentient, like how a warframe is not a Tenno?  It could give a better reason for the Sentient threat than "because Skynet", if nothing else. 

True, and thank you for clarifying.  Hmmm, it could be an interesting thing if the Sentients became sentient while interacting with something over in the Tau system, as some event or third party creature would be needed in order to break them out of their programing.  I actually kind of like that idea of the Technocycte virus being a crazy mutated version of the same tech that made the Sentients, that diverged overtime.  It would explain at least why the Orokin thought it would be able to fight the Sentient, and with the rudimentary hive mind the infested have being what the Sentients originally used instead of individuality that Hunhow and Lotus display now.