Why do nullifiers still exist?

[magusat999]

9 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

I never said it was the only way. I simply came with a few suggestions. Whether you wan't to use them or not is entirely up to you.

I'm talking about the regular Nullifier. You're gonna have to discuss these drones with someone else.

Well this thread is about Nullifiers - the OP didn't specify which type, he just said high level Nullifiers. You have a strange way of conceding... i guess by your answer you now know what we are talking about here, and it wasn't about the lone Nullifier in the level 10 Corpus mission you kept alluding to... SO yean... sliding na and attacking WONT WORK in this situation. All I asked is that you tell us your talking an=bout the kiddie Nullifier in the first place, and I had to go all the way here to get you to understand that...

[Rambit23Z]

3 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

Well this thread is about Nullifiers - the OP didn't specify which type, he just said high level Nullifiers. You have a strange way of conceding... i guess by your answer you now know what we are talking about here, and it wasn't about the lone Nullifier in the level 10 Corpus mission you kept alluding to... SO yean... sliding na and attacking WONT WORK in this situation. All I asked is that you tell us your talking an=bout the kiddie Nullifier in the first place, and I had to go all the way here to get you to understand that...

I've been considering level 80-120 Nullifiers, and unless specified, I'm going to assume people mean the regular Nullifier. Not to mention, the Grineer Nullifying drones are called Disruptor Drones. Not Nullifiers.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

seeing as how they just made a super niche augment for nullifiers and put it on one of the worst weapons in the game.....they aren't going anywhere.

That's fine. As long as I'm not forced to play corpus.

[Bibliothekar]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SupeBoss said:

seeing as how they just made a super niche augment for nullifiers

They did not. They talked about making one in the devstream. But that's a) only talk so far and b) happened on April 1st.

[Xzorn]

7 hours ago, bbeeaann said:

   Ever consider he has multiple accounts?

 

Considering 90% of the things you might want to do with an alt account will get you banned No. Considering there's no reason for a player to use a later account that does not have access to Lato and Braton Vandal, No.

 

6 hours ago, bbeeaann said:

   It's not highly misleading. You can play this game with whatever weapon you want; that doesn't mean that the weapon is the optimal choice to finish the mission the most efficient. It's an completely fair option. There are missions where sniping is more favored over other options. Once again, that doesn't mean that all missions will favor that type of weapon. Why would you take a weapon that is less effective than another to do a specific task?

  

Only if you don't have any confidence in your ability to charge the enemy with your primary and secondary weapons. Nullifiers are a primary target. The longer you allow them to live is the longer the odds stack against you that you are going to die. Using Pokour skills to avoid fire to close the distance to you and said target is a skill you need to have in this game. The only reason you consider this a bad strategy is because you refuse to adapt to the ever changing game that Warframe is. Your approach to this game is limited to sniper only, which DE doesn't want. This is why we have multiple choices of weapons, Warframe abilities, and Parkour to deal with the obstacles they put before us.

 

 

There are no missions left in this game where Sniping is a more favorable option. The only one that ever existed was high level void runs where you had a designated roll in a group. Nullifiers took care of that.

No, I understand strategy in a shooter. If you tried that garbage in and PvP  shooter or actually difficult PvE shooter you would die and then have people laugh and crouch over your body.

I also don't user snipers or bows, ever. As I stated above there are now 0 conditions where a Sniper is favorable to another weapon choice, since the arrival of Nullifiers.

This game has never been anywhere close to balanced with it's weapon performance, before Damage 2.0 the MK-1 Braton was one of the best primaries in the game. I personally enjoy Melee and skill shot weapons like Rail Gun, PPC and Lightning Gun. Flak Cannon alt fire was fun too. Yet my Tonkor used is 3% and my Simulor used is 4%, my bows and snipers are even less while Ignis is 26%, I prefer the feel of Penta over Tonkor yet I'm not going to ignore the flat out stupidity of an advantage an explosive weapon that doesn't harm the user has.

This game tells me what weapons I have to use. If I don't listen I get punished. You can play "for fun" if you want. My fun is not spending x10 longer to accomplish something,

[akira_him]

44 minutes ago, bbeeaann said:

    Even the developers have alternate accounts. Please rethink your ignorance. You can have multiple accounts, and many players do. 

They are developers, not players, they having multiple accounts doesn't violate the term of use, but player will violate the ToU for having multiple account unless they are on different platform

[akira_him]

2 minutes ago, bbeeaann said:

    False. Please read this thread here:

 

Ok I was wrong about that one lol

[bonamb]

Nullifiers are kinda necessary. Otherwise things like immortal valkyr will happen. Which is completely overpowered. 

Nullifiers stop CC. They stop you completely ****blocking oncoming enemies and add an element of excitement to the game. They can be annoying but do you really want a permanently nova'd map?

They encourage different strategies, and teamwork. One is for a member of the team to specifically be on the lookout for bubbles, and to shoot them down when they appear, while the rest of the squad deals with everything else. 

If you are soloing, especially with banshee, just use more tactical thinking. OP mentioned using a banshee and a bow. How about ye take a secondary at least with a decent fire rate to shoot down the bubble then shoot them with the bow. And don't get shot yourself (I heard it hurts). 

Having control of the entire map with abilities just sounds like a silly idea. Its boring. There is no point playing a game with no challenge. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by bonamb
Grammar.

[Bibliothekar]

3 minutes ago, bonamb said:

Nullifiers are kinda necessary. Otherwise things like immortal valkyr will happen.

Or, you know, we could tweak the abilities and mods that affect them, so it doesn't happen.

4 minutes ago, bonamb said:

Nullifiers stop CC.

Fog Comba/Scrambus. They'd just need to be a bit more common.

[akira_him]

 

10 minutes ago, bonamb said:

Nullifiers are kinda necessary. Otherwise things like immortal valkyr will happen. Which is completely overpowered. 

Nullifiers stop CC. They stop you completely ****blocking oncoming enemies and add an element of excitement to the game. They can be annoying but do you really want a permanently nova'd map?

They encourage different strategies, and teamwork. One is for a member of the team to specifically be on the lookout for bubbles, and to shoot them down when they appear, while the rest of the squad deals with everything else. 

If you are soloing, especially with banshee use more tactics. OP mentioned using a banshee and a bow. Take a secondary at least with a decent fire rate to shoot down the bubble then shoot them with the bow. And don't get shot yourself. 

Having control of the entire map with abilities just sounds like a silly idea. Its boring. 

That is entirely another issue for the perma-CCing thing, we still have Combas that are fast as hell and bursas that are tanky even if sniper can easily take down nullifiers, we can also make burasas having an aura like combas

nullifiers only punish 1 weapon, and kills the point of using sniper, because you have to charge into the enemy, and when you have to charge into the enemies, you have better choice, so why not just remove every single snipers in the game?

5 minutes ago, bbeeaann said:

    Exactly. Thank you. I don't get why people play this game and expect to use one weapon or ability to deal with every scenario; especially when DE created Nullifiers to specifically stop what he's trying to do.

Automatics already dealing with every scenario in this game along with shotguns, we should nerf them to oblivion to sniper level

Edited April 8, 2016 by akira_him

[CapedBaldy]

9 shot for automatic and 9 shot for sniper is worlds apart, 9 ammo for autos and 9 ammo for snipers is worlds apart.

Spawn rate of Nullifiers so high, might as well just use automatics instead of weapon swapping.

But I guess I can't use snipers properly because it's 'weapon spam' and 'i have to adapt'.

[bonamb]

2 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Or, you know, we could tweak the abilities and mods that affect them, so it doesn't happen

Sure (not being sarcastic, actually agreeing). But how would you tweak them. And other frames (trin, rhino, etc)

 

6 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Fog Comba/Scrambus. They'd just need to be a bit more common.

tbh I completely agree with this. Although hopefully not just the fog. Those two units would be good for taking over. And they allow snipers like above person wants. Although it would be good to have all of the types more common, not just Fog. Nul especially. 

 

7 minutes ago, akira_him said:

Automatics already dealing with every scenario in this game along with shotguns, we should nerf them to oblivion to sniper level

Why not buff snipers? For example: The power of a sniper shot pops the bubble.

Or, the bubbles have a set health, and again increasing the amount of damage snipers can do it just shoots right through them. Just an idea. (I do agree, snipers are still far too weak and just cant keep up. But not sure if nerfing would solve anything, despite the looming shadow of possible power creep.)

 

Basically. Bubbles are needed, unless DE makes some drastic changes to quite a few things. Which would most likely unleash clouds of boiled piss. 

[CapedBaldy]

You can't buff snipers like that. Weapons like grinlok will still suffer from current issues.

[bonamb]

1 minute ago, CapedBaldy said:

You can't buff snipers like that. Weapons like grinlok will still suffer from current issues.

Grinlok is pretty terrible anyway tbh. Although its not actually that bad against bubbles due to its semi auto rate of fire. Which is perfect for bubbles. Auto weapons vs bubbles are actually horribly ammowise due to the overly large rate of fire and how much of it is wasted. You have to shoot at certain times - exactly like a semi auto. 

Meanwhile if you only put the passive "pops nullifier bubbles" on snipers, it pretty much evens the playing field due to their slow rate of fire. You don't necessarily have to increase anything else. Was just throwing out possible ideas. 

[Jeetza]

Nullifiers are easily the worst thing DE has ever added to Warframe. I fully realized this when I played a very high level mission of each faction. Infestation was a joke, Grineer could be a pain(but was also a fun challenge), corpus were probably the worst. Sure they die easy, but the nullifiers are powerful enough to make up for the lack of armor and good units the corpus have. Orokin missions are just as bad if not worsened by the fact bombards and heavy gunners are in the mix too. IMO, DE needs to at least remove void nullifiers. I would like to see a complete removal, but nerfs to Nullifiers or partial removal would also be great.

[-Shigemi-]

On 24/03/2016 at 6:17 PM, Hemmo67 said:

they are interesting pacechanger cuz u need to adapt from ur press 4 to win (cencored)

they are not too difficult to kill but oppose little challenge to the slower people

if u happen to have nekros in ur team u can create mobile globes of ultimate protection

so yes i am willing to protect their design

yes, yes, yes aaand yes :)

its all about challenge... i like it to have some "press 4 to win"-immune enemies out there ;)

[Jeetza]

34 minutes ago, bonamb said:

Nullifiers are kinda necessary. Otherwise things like immortal valkyr will happen. Which is completely overpowered. 

Nullifiers stop CC. They stop you completely ****blocking oncoming enemies and add an element of excitement to the game. They can be annoying but do you really want a permanently nova'd map?

They encourage different strategies, and teamwork. One is for a member of the team to specifically be on the lookout for bubbles, and to shoot them down when they appear, while the rest of the squad deals with everything else. 

If you are soloing, especially with banshee, just use more tactical thinking. OP mentioned using a banshee and a bow. How about ye take a secondary at least with a decent fire rate to shoot down the bubble then shoot them with the bow. And don't get shot yourself (I heard it hurts). 

Having control of the entire map with abilities just sounds like a silly idea. Its boring. There is no point playing a game with no challenge. 

What about Grineer then? They don't have nullifiers but are still considered a good challenge despite the existence of the AOE frames you mentioned. We don't need nullifiers to have a balanced game. It can be done through other, more fair, means.

[CapedBaldy]

7 minutes ago, bonamb said:

Grinlok is pretty terrible anyway tbh. Although its not actually that bad against bubbles due to its semi auto rate of fire. Which is perfect for bubbles. Auto weapons vs bubbles are actually horribly ammowise due to the overly large rate of fire and how much of it is wasted. You have to shoot at certain times - exactly like a semi auto. 

Meanwhile if you only put the passive "pops nullifier bubbles" on snipers, it pretty much evens the playing field due to their slow rate of fire. You don't necessarily have to increase anything else. Was just throwing out possible ideas. 

Grinlok would take approx 7 seconds to throw out 9 shots, but it has 6 mag so it would need a reload, so that's 9.1 seconds for the bubble alone. 10 seconds-ish for the nullifier.

Now that's just one. This game is fond of sending 2-3 nullifiers at once. Coupled with bubble regen and additional mobs, it's not likely you can take them all down in minimum 30 seconds, especially if they overlap.

The bubbles need a rework so that the disparity isn't that massive.

[Tsoe]

take a fast shooting weapon.... nulifier are nothing seriously

 

or go into melee while blocking

Edited April 8, 2016 by Tsoe

[FrostedMike]

If you can deal with nullifiers with any frame exept Banshee, the problem is with Banshee and not with the nullfiers. We all know Banshee is lacking survivabilitiy, and DE know it and probably plan a fix.
There was also a mentioning for Mag. Mag and Volt are the next frames to be reworked, I heard this update will be sometime this month (no promises, don't catch my word).

As far as nullifiers to me, They're a little pain in the a** on high level missions, but they provide a good challenge. I didn't have a problem with them so far, only with Banshee which we talked about it already.

[Hesyol]

Well I think nullifiers are rather interesting enemies that makes you think even when you use Loki or Valk. I find combas way more irritating, especially when you use Inaros. Sometimes you can't even see them behind corner, but then poof - all your buffs disapear. And you can't doge or prevent that. And their pinging sound doesn't help much since I listen to some music 90% of time when I play

[RAZORLIGHT]

yeah most OP enemies are nullifiers and ancient healers

[akira_him]

46 minutes ago, bonamb said:

snip

Why not buff snipers? For example: The power of a sniper shot pops the bubble.

Or, the bubbles have a set health, and again increasing the amount of damage snipers can do it just shoots right through them. Just an idea. (I do agree, snipers are still far too weak and just cant keep up. But not sure if nerfing would solve anything, despite the looming shadow of possible power creep.)

 

Basically. Bubbles are needed, unless DE makes some drastic changes to quite a few things. Which would most likely unleash clouds of boiled piss. 

I have been asking to buff snipers in this entire thread, the only thing I didn't think of is making them do more damage to pop bubble, thank you for bringing that up, that could be a balanced one

13 minutes ago, Hesyol said:

Well I think nullifiers are rather interesting enemies that makes you think even when you use Loki or Valk. I find combas way more irritating, especially when you use Inaros. Sometimes you can't even see them behind corner, but then poof - all your buffs disapear. And you can't doge or prevent that. And their pinging sound doesn't help much since I listen to some music 90% of time when I play

Well, I think DE should make every single aura in the game requires line of sight, like fire blast of pyro eximus (possibly to all warframe ability at the same time for the sake of consistency, like radial blind and mirror ball)

23 minutes ago, Tsoe said:

take a fast shooting weapon.... nulifier are nothing seriously

 

or go into melee while blocking

That's not the point, the point is why fast shooting weapon is always superior to slow shooting weapons in every possible senerio in this game, especially facing nullifiers, a priority target that slow firing weapons are supposed to deal with

2 minutes ago, RAZORLIGHT said:

yeah most OP enemies are nullifiers and ancient healers

At least healers don't accumulate their damage reduction on themselves and you can shoot it first in any distance

[-Tzek4-]

On 3/25/2016 at 11:52 AM, Myscho said:

Because they dont care how much is enemy scaling and their dmg output broken, just keep adding more broken enemies

They do care and if they are so insanely difficult your doing something wrong, high levels you can still shank them with a skana and they die, dash in and dash out you should take very little damage even with squishy frames. the damage out is broken? ill disagree with that because you shouldn't be walking around casually,  id like to see people makes posts on how its so difficult and the scenarios they are in that they seemingly are impossible to deal with.

[DjaAkh]

1 hour ago, bonamb said:

Nullifiers are kinda necessary. Otherwise things like immortal valkyr will happen. Which is completely overpowered. 

Nullifiers stop CC. They stop you completely ****blocking oncoming enemies and add an element of excitement to the game. They can be annoying but do you really want a permanently nova'd map?

They encourage different strategies, and teamwork. One is for a member of the team to specifically be on the lookout for bubbles, and to shoot them down when they appear, while the rest of the squad deals with everything else. 

If you are soloing, especially with banshee, just use more tactical thinking. OP mentioned using a banshee and a bow. How about ye take a secondary at least with a decent fire rate to shoot down the bubble then shoot them with the bow. And don't get shot yourself (I heard it hurts). 

Having control of the entire map with abilities just sounds like a silly idea. Its boring. There is no point playing a game with no challenge. 

Yepp... some energy pills easily lead to perma-AoE blindness, which easily becomes the most boring thing in the world. Imho something like nullifiers are necessary, though, the details should be open for discussion.