Ash Rework (Straw poll)

[ClinkzEastwood]

9 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You might wanna play excal of that's your personal preference.

You might wanna point your cursor at the exist and press 4.

[AKKILLA]

8 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

You might wanna point your cursor at the exist and press 4.

These replies make no sense.

I wish ppl would take Ash reworks serious

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

These replies make no sense.

I wish ppl would take Ash reworks serious

Does judging me make sense to you? Asking for a channeled melee bladestorm, paired with a movement ability and a ranged clowd that opens enemys to finishers would essentialy make ash a slightly different excal/valkyr.

 

His bladestorm works, is unique to an extend of beeing his signature move, synergices with melee (what isn't inferior to channeled abilitys since the body count combo was implemented into the game) so what reason would there be to add him to the ranks of the seemingly OP frames which are definitly inferior to his current state? There is none but personal preference.

What he actually needs is a slight push to make players actually use melee (if even) and a kit to support it better. Period. 

...you might wanna play excal (or valkyr) because these are exactly what you seem to look for in ash...

 

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Does judging me make sense to you? Asking for a channeled melee bladestorm, paired with a movement ability, a ranged clowd that opens enemys to finishers and movement would essentialy make ash a slightly different excal/valkyr.

 

His bladestorm works, is unique, synergices with melee, what isn't inferior to channeled abilitys since the body count combo was implemented into the game, so what reason would there be to add him to the ranks of the seemingly OP frames which are definitly inferior to his current state? There is none but personal preference.

What he actually needs is a slight push to make players actually use melee and a better kit to support it. Period. 

...you might wanna play excal (or valkyr) because these are exactly what you seem to look for in ash...

 

 

You are being judgemental, I play Excal and Valkyr when I wanna play them. I play Ash ALL THE TIME, Ash is in fact the First Melee frame in Game with a Weapon innate to his abilities. You might wanna play Call of Duty instead of Warframe since You are on PS4.

Just had to slap that out there since You are giving Me unwanted advice about what I dont want to play. I dont need to explain this any more then I already have but I will since its My Post, Ash doesnt synergize with Melee at all You are 100% wrong. Fury Quickening and Body Count is not synergizing with Melee those arent even 5% of the melee mods in game. 

Now adding Melee Scaling to Bladestorm would be logic and make sense but Im sorry, Bladestorm may work and do its job but HORRIBLY, It is a Fantastic Idea conceptually it functions and gets the job done but in a bad way. Its like asking you for a favor and you get it done with a attitude and do the job all wrong. Bladestorm is a Melee weapon just DE didnt implement it that way and Valkyrs Hysteria is also a Melee weapon but thats not stated in Wikia or Warframe its just known to have a stance with combos and scales of melee mods, but Hysteria are Claws. As Bladestorm is Hidden Blades, I want to evolve it into what it could be which is a stance where we can use shurikens and it adds synergy with teleports and smoke screen synergy with teleports adding Ashs signature in this Stance Meta. Enemy Death Marks as I like calling it, enemies in Smoke Clouds are stunned and considered Marked for Death as enemies hit by shuriken are marked for death as long as theyre Bleed proc is up you can Free Teleport in for a Fast Finisher Kill. I want to keep all the Key Elements to Ash because I love him and his theme just Evolve him into the Warframe He should be. 

You cant say another stance is bad and for the First Warframe with innate weapons in his abilities in Warframe. I have spoken  about this concept with Lord Koga which he basically wanted that Months back and now we get Primal Fury and Artemis Bow? That proves we will see more alike its DEs choice at the end of the day but You cant deny this Concept is Fantastic and You just disagree out of lack of knowledge and fear to lose what You are comfortable with and already know.

I can assure You as an Avid Ash Fan boy w.e You wanna call it, I have No intentions on ruining, only bettering Ash. This is a Full control Bladestorm You can still stack up melee combo multipliers You do have Rising Storm, Body Count is great but dont make that an excuse to change what needs to be updated. Not having control of the killing isnt fun especially since the animation isnt the best as in the Trailer it feels like DE just used a Nice Marketing strategy to rush in Fan boys, i downloaded this game 3 years ago and it has come a long way and i have been hiatus for a long time until Koga got Me back in Hard, He taught Me alot about Ash at the time He was the Only Ash I knew who constantly played with Arcane Trickery and Smoke Shadow. His duration is crazy and basically I dont see him the entire mission, just his clones lol I gathered alot of ideas from Koaga and others here in the forums who offered concepts I liked for Ash, I think its time He gets an entire Tune up.

All his abilities need a Refreshing touch that makes it look and feel better Shuriken Scaling to animations Smoke Screen Clouds to Teleport Dashes and Bladestorm Stance Ulti. A great Rework like what DE did to Excalibur and Exalted Blade. Im sure people hate the cheese of it but it is a work of Art dont lie? Soo is Hysteria, I am just a person who enjoys the fun in the game in general I can Fail a Mission and still smile. People in Warframe have too much animosity and thats where the lack of evolution may come in the forums if people are narrow minded and dont give ideas a try. 

Just picture it in Your Mind, You Bladestorming and killing how You want using Shuriken in Bladestorm and Smoke Screen with Teleports in Bladestorm.

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Stealth, 4x innitial multiplier, smoke bomb resets this multiplier on allready tapped enemys. teleport, instant melee range, finisher. melee by itself is strong as well, you gain multilpliers by bs'ing what makes it even stronger and you idealy substain your stealth with both, trickery and naramon. Who could even get the idea that he synergices with melee. And you must be quite convinced about your standpoint now that you start refering to irrelevant people and your fandom to argue about something that is in complete conflict with it.

 

What is?... are you a fanboy or completely unsatisfied with ash? You can't be both.

[AKKILLA]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

I dislike how many people disagree with a free aim teleport for ash when nezah, Loki and nova are all allowed to have it.(also itzal has it)

I swear I thought this thread died and disappeared from the face of the Earth.

Thanx for the support

#FumaShuriken

#SmokeScreenAoE

#FreeAimTeleport

#BladestormStanceUlti

 

[AKKILLA]

Currently Blade storm works as intended, clears a room in an unpleasant way. 

With bad outdated Finisher animations that bother me. The idea of Blade storm is great, but the way it was implemented says DE were in a rush.

Now lets compare the Trailer Bladestorm to the in GAME ONE lol

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

What we were shown ^

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

As You see here this may be an outdated video but the Blade storm is the same, If im correct in this video Blade storm was slightly reworked and they added clones (Not Sure) Never the less Blade storm animation is terrible, uncontrollable and frustrating.

I actually think Blade storm looks better watching an ally cast it. Doing it Myself hurts My eyes and makes Me start to dislike one of My favorite Warframes. 

I have already made several threads about how to Rework Ashs Blade storm and his whole kit, but Blade storm needs reworking the most.

IMO a Stance Blade storm is the best way to go about Blade storms rework keeping the ability Interactive and interesting while keeping its identity and Ash as the protagonist of Blade storm not just sending out Clones. 

IMO what I think Blade storm should look like animation wise. Or what it seems like DE got there inspiration from

(Im not stupid DE this is where You got it from lol)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Imagine doing Blade storm like this with out just pressing 4 and watching it happen thru a horrible camera view, would this not be much better?

Just My opinions, lets stop ignoring Ash, DE spoke about reworks over 4 months ago in Devstream 60, then in NY Comic con panel they discussed a Blade storm rework and it went back in the shadows. I didnt like (DE) Steves concept or what he expressed on how it would work, but I loved what (DE) Rebecca said (EXALTED BLADE STYLE) I love You Reb <3

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Time stamp 34:20 ^ Then Rebecca says "Exalted Blade"

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Time stamp 51:50 Member asks Devs about Blade storm rework. Rebecca again says "Exalted Blade Style" Rebecca gets the idea, Steve however doesn't  

-________-

When will this issue get looked at? 2017-2018-2019? When Inaros Prime releases? lol jk had to be a bit humorous Blade storm discussions are frustrating Ash in general as a topic is a frustrating issue on going for a long time in Warframe and Blade storm is a very important issue in his arsenal.

Lets rework this ability to better it. What are Your ideas of how it should be reworked?

Leave it as is?

Make it a Ninja Rumblers Clone?

Give it the much needed Exalted Blade Stance Rework? (My idea)

 

 

[Nedow40]

If the camera was free. I think it would solve many problems with bladestorm.

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, Nedow40 said:

If the camera was free. I think it would solve many problems with bladestorm.

Yeah, then we still have a press 4 to watch Ninja Assassin

or Press 4 to Watch Ryu Hayabusa do his Ultimate Technique while your team dies and Cryopods destroyed, operators die etc.

IMO Blade storm Stance is what we need. more interactive and refreshing. Better Scaling in late game as well instead of endless Blade storms on Eximus or have You ever Blade stormed a Sortie Juggernaut? lol 

[IceColdHawk]

If it is going to end up like what happened to mesa, i'm proud to have it stay as it is.

[Gurpgork]

I agree that it needs help, but I don't think yet another Exalted Blade duplicate is the way to go about it. It would just make Ash feel generic. 

I think that Teleport and Blade Storm could be merged into a powerful, super long-range version of Landslide. Ash would teleport across the room and stab somebody, and the clones would appear and assassinate nearby targets every time you cast it, with more clones appearing as the combo increases. 

That would be interactive and skill-based, but could still be just as powerful (and at times, more powerful) as the current iteration of Blade Storm, while it would have more factors to set it apart from the ultimates of other frames.

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

If it is going to end up like what happened to mesa, i'm proud to have it stay as it is.

Nowhere near My intention. 

BTW Mesa is still viable, I play a Muzle Flash spam, but yes thats no excuse Peacemaker is horrible. Id prefer Peacemaker be similar to Artemis Bow, let Mesa fully Move Run Parkour and use the rest of her abilities to synergize and grant real INTERACTION, I would love to know whats DEs Logic of Interactive cuz sitting in Place and aiming with a terrible drain and damage fall of interactive? Nah let her move.

Back to Ash tho, Bladestorm should be another Stance because Ash is the first frame to have innate weapon built in to his ability. Then Mesa. Check wikia here

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

Ash was the first Warframe that had innate physical weapons associated with his frame, in this case his hidden blades he uses in his Blade Storm ability. The second frame with this innate physical weapon was Mesa and her Regulator pistols she uses in her Peacemaker ability

Copied and pasted straight from wikia ^ I feel Ashs Bladestorm shoudl be a Stance Drain Ulti and scale if off of Melee mods for better damage late game, just my opinion referencing with what is already in game

[pikaseechu]

It is extremely frustrating being stuck in Bladestorm when a squadmate is down, so a toggle on/off wit ha simple press of 4 would be fantastic.Could work perfectly with the Stance/ drain per sec you suggested. Much like Peacemaker, Exalted Blade, and Hysteria, frames with ultimate abilities that have a weapon of sorts should be transferred to this casting model.

what happened to Mesa was unfortunate, but it helped set Excalibur and Hysteria on a similar path and with better results.

Why can't Ash's Bladestorm also receive this same treatment?

[TwiceDead]

Didn't you already make a thread about this? If I recall you made the same suggestion in one of your threads (was it called ASH?). 
I agree Bladestorm is not fine as it is, not sure about your solution however...

Edited March 16, 2016 by TwiceDead

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

I don't know how I feel about bladestorm ATM. On one hand, the skill itself works as described. However on the other, it somewhat trivializes the rest of his kit. So much so that I have two completely different builds: the manic build (smoke screen + teleport build) and the bad@ss kill stealing build (bladestorm built for range and strength with no duration at all). I don't know how I feel about the exalted idea because it wouldn't really change how I play. But it's nice too see an advocate for change.

[CrudShuzKong]

I dont know where you get the idea from tha "we" are ignoring bladestorm, it is one of the most discussed abilities in the forum.

Other than that, i'd just make Baldestorm into an exalted weapon that drains energy while active.

it should have decent stats, nothing too crazy but a built in covert lethality (maybe even on ground finishers)

The stance for the weapon should have a combo that opens up enemies to finishers on the last hit.

If we want to go a step further, i could also suggest that teleport should initiate a finisher instantly if the button is held (not much of a change just some qol for the lazy people that love "one-click-wonders").

With these changes you can "manually" bladestorm from target to target instantly kiling them until you are out of juice.

Edited March 16, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[StonedMakak]

Two types of Ash players I see most often when I PUG Sorties: 

1. Bladestorm 24/7 - helps the team doing lots of kills. Slightly irritating when a mob that you're about to shoot turns invincible. This mechanic serves as a bandaid, compensating for the outdated design of the ability. It's needed so that the Ult is not wasted, but breaks flow of combat for teammates, not good. 

2. Halftime Bladestorm - these guys try to mix it up with some melee or gunplay, and drop a lot. After they get picked up a few times they immediately switch to type 1, probably for the best. Speaks volumes about Bladestorm itself. 

Once in a blue moon, there is an Ash player who doesn't spam his Ult and knows what he's doing.

My suggestion would be to go a step further than already existing Exalted weapons and improve upon their design. Namely, pressing 4 would toggle Bladestrom and give Ash three new abilities exclusive to this mode, similarly to how Equinox changes forms. Except it would have both activation cost and upkeep. Ash would be locked in melee mode, using the actual weapons (to differentiate from other Exalted modes).

#1 Fan of 6 Shurikens in a 90 degree cone, no homing but infinite punch-through, like EB's wave, though the range is limited (25 m?); compensates for being locked in melee.

#2 Smoke Screen that creates a cloud that provides a bullet evasion bonus while inside; enemies entering the cloud are attacked by clones and knocked down (works on enemies already inside, but only 2 clones are doing the attacks). Needs to expire before being cast again. 

#3 would be used for manual Bladestorming, with custom animations, invulnerability and free camera. Chaining decreases the cost, just like Rhino's Charge and Landslide. 

While Bladestorm is active, combo counter gives increased chanced of inflicting bleed proc and as well as movement speed bonus. Everything except #1 contributes to the counter. Interactive, and provides various ways of playing with the Ult. 

Edited March 16, 2016 by tisdfogg
Tweaks to the idea

[CrudShuzKong]

2 minutes ago, tisdfogg said:

Two types of Ash players I see most often when I PUG Sorties: 

1. Bladestorm 24/7 - helps the team doing lots of kills. Slightly irritating when a mob that you're about to shoot turns invincible. This mechanic serves as a bandaid, compensating for the poor design of the ability. It's needed so that the Ult is not wasted, but breaks flow of combat for teammates, not good. 

2. Halftime Bladestorm - these guys try to mix it up with some melee or gunplay, and drop a lot. After they get picked up a few times they immediately switch to type 1, probably for the best. Speaks volumes about Bladestorm itself. 

Once in a blue moon, there is an Ash player who doesn't spam his Ult and knows what he's doing.

My suggestion would be to go a step further than already existing Exalted weapons and improve upon their design. Namely, pressing 4 would toggle Bladestrom and give Ash three new abilities exclusive to this mode, similarly to how Equinox changes forms. As such it would have no upkeep. Ash would be looked in melee mode, using the actual weapons (to differentiate from other Exalted modes).

#1 Fan of 6 Shurikens in a 90 degree cone, no homing but infinite punch-through, like EB; compensates for being locked in melee.

#2 Smoke Screen that creates a cloud that provides a bullet evasion bonus while inside; enemies entering the cloud are attacked by clones and knocked down (works on enemies already inside, but only 2 clones are doing the attacks). 

#3 would be used for manual Bladestorming, with custom animations, invulnerability and free camera. Chaining decreases the cost, just like Rhino's Charge and Landslide. 

While Bladestorm is active, combo counter gives increased chanced of inflicting bleed proc and as well as movement speed bonus. Everything except #1 contributes to the counter. Interactive, and provides various ways of playing with the Ult. 

now THATS something i could get behind.

Although paying no upkeep for buffs on all his kit is not the best idea i think, because the only thing it restricts like this is gunplay, and with ash's kit you usually dont plan on using them in tandem with his set anyways, so his normal skillset would just amount to mobility and panic-button.

I really think that ash's kit is absolutely fine as is, just make the ultimate an exalted hidden blades weapon with innate covert lethality.

Combined with his 3 that could do actually more dps against lategame enemies than Bladestorm does right now, add to taht teh fact that you can have the SWEETEST finisher animations on there and you have a frame for life.

[StonedMakak]

22 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

now THATS something i could get behind.

Although paying no upkeep for buffs on all his kit is not the best idea i think, because the only thing it restricts like this is gunplay, and with ash's kit you usually dont plan on using them in tandem with his set anyways, so his normal skillset would just amount to mobility and panic-button.

I really think that ash's kit is absolutely fine as is, just make the ultimate an exalted hidden blades weapon with innate covert lethality.

Combined with his 3 that could do actually more dps against lategame enemies than Bladestorm does right now, add to taht teh fact that you can have the SWEETEST finisher animations on there and you have a frame for life.

I did go a bit overboard there, didn't I? You're right, it needs both upkeep and activation cost. Though to be honest, the innate covert lethality is a tad overkill as well, IMHO.

Honestly, anything to make the Ult more interactive is fine in my book. Ash is my favorite frame and I just can't play him because his #4 changes the game into a cutscene. The exalted hidden blades would be fine be me, I suggested something different because a lot of folks criticize EB and Hysteria for forcing a weapon on you, instead of allowing to use the one you prefer. 

[CrudShuzKong]

4 minutes ago, tisdfogg said:

I did go a bit overboard there, didn't I? You're right, it needs both upkeep and activation cost. Though to be honest, the innate covert lethality is a tad overkill as well, IMHO.

Honestly, anything to make the Ult more interactive is fine in my book. Ash is my favorite frame and I just can't play him because his #4 changes the game into a cutscene. The exalted hidden blades would be fine be me, I suggested something different because a lot of folks criticize EB and Hysteria for forcing a weapon on you, instead of allowing to use the one you prefer. 

Well i dont think covert lethality would be overkill, as normal daggers can have it, and ash can use those... they dont even require energy or anything to oneshot, ash requires to keep the blades going...

[AKKILLA]

5 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

I agree that it needs help, but I don't think yet another Exalted Blade duplicate is the way to go about it. It would just make Ash feel generic. 

I think that Teleport and Blade Storm could be merged into a powerful, super long-range version of Landslide. Ash would teleport across the room and stab somebody, and the clones would appear and assassinate nearby targets every time you cast it, with more clones appearing as the combo increases. 

That would be interactive and skill-based, but could still be just as powerful (and at times, more powerful) as the current iteration of Blade Storm, while it would have more factors to set it apart from the ultimates of other frames.

Stance Bladestorm makes great sense. Im sorry to say this, it is in fact VERY Interactive, it allows Ash players to do Combos and use Shurikens+Smoke Screens+Teleports

I made a few Bladestorm reworks I just want to Campaign this idea, If I dont some body gotta  do it. Koga is barely on Forums as before and i got most ideas from him and others in this community that sounded awesome and packed it into one idea and...

 

This thread came about. I explained it Perfectly in this thread how it works and its quiet interactive, You are constantly using abilities like shuriken then teleporting to enemies marked by bleed procs which is what I want to do add interaction ssimilar to Saryn with Molt Spores and Viral/Toxin procs, Except Ash is Slash Bleed Procs. These Procs could be incorporated as a mechanic to synergize abilities like Shuriken with Teleport. 

Say an enemy is hit by Shuriken, as long as the are still suffering the Bleed/Slash Proc, You can Free Teleport to him with No Line of Sight, and the enemy is stunned by a smoke bomb opening him to a Finisher.

Same for Smoke Screen. I suggest this idea be a total rework but if anything Make Smoke Screen offer an AoE Choke Cloud while in Bladestorm.

Say You cast a smoke screen Ash drops a Cloud 20m cap enemies are obviously choked and open to Finishers, this provides CC for Ash, plus it offers another Mark which adds Synergy to Teleport and Bladestorm as a whole.

So the Enemies in Smoke Screens AoE are not only Choked Open to Finishers but You can Free Teleport to the Smoke AoE aslong as one enemy is inside affected by the Choke.

This can serve Ash players as an indicator considered Death Marks. Enemies Marked ofcoarse are High lighted in Red as now.

Bladestorm should scale off of Melee mods and serve its purpose as now which is deal Finisher/Slash Damage as now. Melee mod scaling would simply allow us to mow down enemies faster and scale higher levels.

Bladestorm should serve as a Combat and Stealth tool. IMO Ash is a Ninja, a Stealth Warframe as well. and if You kill enemies undetected in Bladestorm wouldnt it make sense to one shot and be considered a Stealth Kill? Thats why I also commented Bladestorm currently should achieve Stealth Affinity Multiplier Bonus which it doesnt and I have casted it and it doesnt proc it, but I stay undetected and achieve the Mission Stealth Bonus lol

As seen here You see the Bladestorm is being casted undetected and still I achieve the mission stealth bonus but not the Stealth Affinity Multiplier 

Edited March 16, 2016 by AKKILLA

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

The stats and what it does is fine. Short invulnerability, finisher damage to all targets and bleed procs. Numbers are fine as they are.

Now animation and camera could use work. Use bladestorm on sentients. Numbers-wise it's fine, but look at the animation. It's like ash is carefully cutting bread.

Basically, numbers are fine, but visually could use work.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Bladestorm needs it the most? Seriously? And you still call ash one of your favorite frames?...

 

Bladestorm got with melee influence a needet push in a direction without touching his kit overall... smokebomb is still bad invisibility, shurikens do sh*t besides tracking enemys for you and teleport is clunky and unuseable with melee, you can even litteraly still substain melee by spamming bs but the animations of bs are a problem for you?

The execution is the absolute least problem he has imo.

[ThreeLeggedSnek]

Please +1 this post so it can get the attention it deserves. The Ash rework has been promised, be after that seemed to die out.

[Gurpgork]

19 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Im sorry to say this, it is in fact VERY Interactive

Forgive me if I was unclear. My problem with your proposal wasn't that it lacked interactivity, but more that stance ults are getting really repetitive and generic.

We already have Hysteria, Exalted Blade, and Primal Fury, which would be the same ability if it weren't for a couple little bells and whistles given to each of them (Hysteria's god mode, Exalted Blade's waves, Primal Fury's reach). What's worse is that not only are these the only things that make them different from each other, but they're also what separates them from regular melee combat-- Without these extra effects, they'd just be regular melee weapons, with astronomically better base stats. There's also little to no reason to ever toggle them off.

To be fair, Blade Storm right now can be boiled down to a radial nuke with a target limit, but I don't really approve of trading one generic copy/paste ult for another. Taking Exalted Blade as a template and giving it a ninja-themed atmosphere won't add anything new to the game, and would really feel like a missed opportunity.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Gurpgork