Why is Valkyr Hated?

[(PSN)horridhal]

9 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

You know who they hated before Valkyr? Rhino. People still have residual hate for Rhino even though he's not half the killing machine he once was (before you 1 year or less kiddies start to chime in, I have been playing for three years, so what Rhino was 6 months ago is NOT what i am referring to...). 

Been playing several years myself.  Rhino is in a better position now than he ever has been previously.  Not sure what you are talking about.

[AXCrusnik]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Been playing several years myself.  Rhino is in a better position now than he ever has been previously.  Not sure what you are talking about.

My guess is Iron Skin god mode... I prefer current Rhino.

[magusat999]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Been playing several years myself.  Rhino is in a better position now than he ever has been previously.  Not sure what you are talking about.

Well, Rhino USED TO be invulnerable to everything with his Iron Skin. You put it on at the beginning of the mission and you never had to think about it - it had no "health", it was on and that was it. Do you remember that in 2013? You didn't explain what you meant by "better position" - but I heard people wanting him to have a limit on his skin before it was changed because they felt it would be more of a "challenge"... Is that what you call "a better position". let me specifically say I am talking about Iron Skin, and the faction mod doesn't count here because even if the Iron Skin was as before, the faction mod could still be used. Rhino's Iron Skin was intitially nerfed to accept toxins in - at a time when Warframe had extremely lethal toxin damage. The they kept picking at it and re-tooling it until it became what it is today, a health based version you have to keep re-applying. And the point of my post was not to turn this into a Rhino discussion, it is to illustrate that there will always be this power frame, and people who hate it - the cycle never ends.

Oh, here is a Reddit giving a synopsis of Rhino's abilities in September 2013, to jog your memory sicne you have played for several years...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1endnp/warframe_power_analysis_and_redesign_rhino/

[(XBOX)SlohLane]

On April 3, 2016 at 4:58 PM, evilfluffy said:

 

 And Mesa 's nerf was merely to the fact you now have to turn your camera around and aim which allows you to better target threats.  That was literally the only nerf.

The only nerf...?  I think your forgetting about the now rediculous energy drain her fourth now has on it.

they might as well just take out peacemaker cause it's now worthless. Shatter shield is her only worth while ability now and that's boring.  Yea let me just run around while bullets bounce off me so affective!

[magusat999]

10 minutes ago, AXCrusnik said:

My guess is Iron Skin god mode... I prefer current Rhino.

I think you hit the nail on the head right there - people don't like Valkyr for the same reason - she feels "God Mode". Thank you. God mode frames get hated (on the forums not in the game - people love playing them). But they will always be around. People who want them changed so they can feel "challenged" like hatred of Rhino's "Gofd mode" will always be around, but I think DE knows this and also knows it is in the best interest of the game to have such characters. Look at how ravenous people get for so-called "OP" frames - Phydroid, G-Mag, EV/Blessing Trinity, RJ Excal, ID Loki, Old Rhino, Nova / Slova / Speed Nova now we have the Buffed Ember running around, and of course the frame of discussion Valkyr - yes, people hate them - because people LOVE THEM! Because they have that "God Mode" something about them. ANd that's what makes people WANT them. Nobody except the terminally bored wants some lackluster, broken frame that has flaws. That's why people level them up - other wise why bother? hit up T4 Defense with a level 3 frame... there's your "challenge". Sadly, although there are plenty of people who don't dislike frames like Valkyr, its mostly the whiners and haters posting and getting all the nerfs going...

[jfhsanseiIII]

She's not though. Lots of people love the frame.  I think people hate when she's lazily modded for permanent invincibility, but if modded smartly she can be an immense source of support.  

[MadHatHacker]

I like Valkyr, I really do, but I also understand people's point about her. When I go into a PUG excavation sortie and my three teammates are between MR3 and MR6 and all playing Valkyr, it's a sign that something's not quite right with the game balance. 

Especially when I spend the majority of my time picking them up after unfortunate encounters with Nullifiers whose mechanics they don't understand yet.

[(PSN)horridhal]

1 hour ago, magusat999 said:

Well, Rhino USED TO be invulnerable to everything with his Iron Skin. You put it on at the beginning of the mission and you never had to think about it - it had no "health", it was on and that was it. Do you remember that in 2013? You didn't explain what you meant by "better position" - but I heard people wanting him to have a limit on his skin before it was changed because they felt it would be more of a "challenge"... Is that what you call "a better position".

Iron Skin is no longer the only reason to play him.  You can now add duration to his Stomp, his charge has synergy and isn't as worthless as it once was, and Iron skin can still be buffed relatively easily, and Roar is still Roar.

Whil Iron skin took a hit, everything else was brought up to a higher level, thus my comment.

[fatpig84]

I don't hate Valkyr on the contrary.

Just that she really has an ease of use factor in Warframe.
If a newbie is going to join you in a high level Sortie, I first and foremost recommend they take something tanky.

And a non-reactionary tank like Rhino / Valkyr etc. Basically cast and forget or till depleted or run out of energy.
Other tanks are reactionary or have quirk, for example a blessing Trinity is a much harder tank to play.

So they do have their uses.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

13 hours ago, Cyonan said:

That's why I said high levels, implying a high enemy level rather than mission =P

Even the "higher missions" on the star chart don't have threatening higher level enemies if they aren't endless, Sorties or LoR. I don't really care that I can blitz through some random exterminate on Eris where the enemies are only level 40, because I could not use abilities at all and still be just fine. On stuff like Sorties, enemies do possess enough damage to kill you quite quickly if they catch you out of Hysteria.

I also never said the rest of her kit was terrible, so I don't know where you're getting that from. War Cry is a great ability, especially with Eternal War to keep it going and Paralysis is a solid, if a bit situational, CC(the finisher aspect is more useful if not staying in Hysteria as the claws will murder most things with a spin slash until very high enemy levels). The only ability I don't think much of is Ripline. It might have a few uses, but I still don't think much of it.

Yeah ik.  I just get really defensive about my Valkyr.  I've personally been able to run her in an endless mission for up to an hour without having to be in hysteria.  Then again she's my main and i've been playing with her longer then most people who take issue with her.

[(PSN)Decoy139]

On 4/3/2016 at 5:15 PM, no_stripes said:

Why is this even an issue in a PVE game?

Basically

[Joel_The_Jackle]

I mostly play Oberon these days, although I have several other frames, including Valkyr, Excal, Nyx, and Vauban. I think the reason she needs to exist is the distribution of players on the starchart. As a new player, you unlock a new planet and need to clear atleast the nodes to the next boss fight (unless your getting taxied). Sometimes your lucky and get a teamate or two. Most of the time your not. Even a clan willing to help you with a mission here or there don't want to group with you clearing planet nodes. So you want to start a mission...and get the choice of solo or not at all. Not at all pretty much means quitting and since you really like the game, you dive in solo. Any old frame works for awhile, then you run into bursas and other heavy stuff that ends you in seconds. Even if you can manage to do fancy moves and get away, you can't complete the mission because you can't kill what you need to. So what do you do? You get the one or two frames that can laugh in the face of danger. Thats what valkyr was for me. She's kinda cheesy in her 4, she sucks if you need ranged attacks, but you can run and gun with her and use hysteria as a cheap version of life strike (which is what I usually do). She's by far not my favorite frame but when forced to solo in the face of overwhelming odds if I want to complete the planet, she's my go to gal.

[evilfluffy]

On 4/7/2016 at 10:23 PM, (XB1)Listed mia 510 said:

The only nerf...?  I think your forgetting about the now rediculous energy drain her fourth now has on it.

they might as well just take out peacemaker cause it's now worthless. Shatter shield is her only worth while ability now and that's boring.  Yea let me just run around while bullets bounce off me so affective!

I have yet to have an energy issue with her peacemaker but then again I back out to recast shatter shield.

You also seem to have neglected her first power which should always be fully charged or charging.

and her other skill (name escapes me) that increases damage of person affected and stuns nearby enemies.

Back on topic while "lazy" hysteria build Valkyr seem op early and up later levels a truly skilled Valkyr with right mods will not need hysteria other than the most desperate of moments.  Removing invincibility will hardcap where all Valkyrs falloff because 99% dr of an instant kill is still an instant kill.

Edited April 8, 2016 by evilfluffy
forgot quotes :/

[DefekteDelfin]

Whats with all the strawmen?Honestly,its very childish.Please,dont make strawmen when you argue,most people who dislike valkyr dislike her because of her 4,not because their parents abused them or they are lonely.Do you really have to throw insults around?Why not argue about how you can change it instead of saying valkyr players are noobs or valkyr haters are numerically outnumbered and thus,post bad things on forums because they have a small peen.

If you dont have an argument other than "valkyr is played by press4 babbies"

Or

"Valkyr haters hate her bcuz they are jealousy"

Dont post

[-Temp0-]

On 06.04.2016 at 1:06 PM, Nesisphira said:

The energy cost per second of her 4 should be increased from 2.5 to 10, excalibur aswell.

Are you high? 

On 07.04.2016 at 9:54 AM, MadHatHacker said:

I like Valkyr, I really do, but I also understand people's point about her. When I go into a PUG excavation sortie and my three teammates are between MR3 and MR6 and all playing Valkyr, it's a sign that something's not quite right with the game balance. 

Especially when I spend the majority of my time picking them up after unfortunate encounters with Nullifiers whose mechanics they don't understand yet.

It's a sign they're mr3 and 6. Like Jesus. It's one of the frames you get early, and if you didn't choose excal as a starter frame or didn't farm Rhino for some reason, it's pretty much the only one you'll have beside mag or volt. 

For what it's worth, it's not so bad they chose something like her because probably they thought that maybe they won't die as much and won't be a burden.

 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[Korakian]

Havent read all of the pages so i dont know if this was said before or no, but the reason for me is that they put on like 1-4 forma on their valkyr, so they could do max damage with hysteria and stay for a long time in there, I have no problem with that, it's their choice, but they dont ever forma the aura slot to bring CP and they run Steel charge like 95% of the time and when you get into endgame these players with their steel charge are useless, yeah i know that it gives 18 points, but it gives no advantage to teammates who are trying their best to kill enemies and doing that with only 1 or 2 cp is annoying (talking about grineer) and people are too ignorant to use it. This game is mostly centered around teamwork, so please just start using CP and i will have no problem with people who play valkyr.

[-Temp0-]

15 minutes ago, Korakian said:

Havent read all of the pages so i dont know if this was said before or no, but the reason for me is that they put on like 1-4 forma on their valkyr, so they could do max damage with hysteria and stay for a long time in there, I have no problem with that, it's their choice, but they dont ever forma the aura slot to bring CP and they run Steel charge like 95% of the time and when you get into endgame these players with their steel charge are useless, yeah i know that it gives 18 points, but it gives no advantage to teammates who are trying their best to kill enemies and doing that with only 1 or 2 cp is annoying (talking about grineer) and people are too ignorant to use it. This game is mostly centered around teamwork, so please just start using CP and i will have no problem with people who play valkyr.

The reason for that is simple. Too many d*mn formas where there's no need for it. No one in their right mind should forma melee oriented frames for CP, the only way to do it - don't have a polarity on the aura at all (like on Excal by deafult). But to do so, you need to waste 2 to 3 times more formas for the same build, jumping from 0-1-2 to 4 or 5. That's just too much and in some cases will limit variations of builds you can have with a frame. For some random people - it's too much. I can and did formad Frost and Trin for '-' polarity (but it's not the same since a)they don't need "d" anyway b)they're pretty much teamplayers anyway, supports and I'd even say can't be used solo, at least not ot this extent) And since you will never ever see 4 cp in a random team anyway there's literally 0 reasons to do so.

That's not to mention if it's a real end-game team, and premade one, then it shouldn't be an issue because who would bring her anyway and for waht purpose? To revive people? Then aura doesn't really matter, as well as power str. And even if for some reason you need her in a real endgame (past lvl 100), you can always ask to sacrifice one mod for CP if it's a recruited team.

[Korakian]

23 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

The reason for that is simple. Too many d*mn formas where there's no need for it. No one in their right mind should forma melee oriented frames for CP, the only way to do it - don't have a polarity on the aura at all (like on Excal by deafult). But to do so, you need to waste 2 to 3 times more formas for the same build, jumping from 0-1-2 to 4 or 5. That's just too much and in some cases will limit variations of builds you can have with a frame. For some random people - it's too much. I can and did formad Frost and Trin for '-' polarity (but it's not the same since a)they don't need "d" anyway b)they're pretty much teamplayers anyway, supports and I'd even say can't be used solo, at least not ot this extent) And since you will never ever see 4 cp in a random team anyway there's literally 0 reasons to do so.

That's not to mention if it's a real end-game team, and premade one, then it shouldn't be an issue because who would bring her anyway and for waht purpose? To revive people? Then aura doesn't really matter, as well as power str. And even if for some reason you need her in a real endgame (past lvl 100), you can always ask to sacrifice one mod for CP if it's a recruited team.

Why shouldnt you forma a melee frame for CP? In the long run 30% less armor is better then 60% more melee dmg, as most people use guns not melee. There are some exeptions. Under end game i mean sorties and some random hour long runs, im not that hardcore so the casual end game is sorties. And as i said before this is a multiplayer/co-op game so teamwork isnt a must, but it does help.

And for the random team with almost no CP, there is a fix for that, engourage people to use CP.

[-Temp0-]

14 minutes ago, Korakian said:

Why shouldnt you forma a melee frame for CP? In the long run 30% less armor is better then 60% more melee dmg, as most people use guns not melee. There are some exeptions. Under end game i mean sorties and some random hour long runs, im not that hardcore so the casual end game is sorties. And as i said before this is a multiplayer/co-op game so teamwork isnt a must, but it does help.

And for the random team with almost no CP, there is a fix for that, engourage people to use CP.

In how so long exactly? Can still easily kill a lvl 100 anything, even bombards and heavy gunners. That goes not only for melee frames but primaries I use on them as well. Longer than 1 hour solo/in a team is completely unnecessary too, and when one wants it for some reason there are better frames for that and better setups. Didn't need it in the sortie as well. Especially since like I said, you can encounter players with any aura there if they're randoms, and you'll be the only one with CP like an idiot on a melee frame while even those who have innate '-' run energy siphons or something. Teamwork only has place in a pre-made, recruited group. Even so, you can wait for all eternity if you say need x frames, all should bring CP. 

How about no. Mandatory aura is ridiculous and so is the insane armor scaling. If even 50% of people were using it, than maybe, but the last time I saw it (4 cp) was Draco and not void or sortie. Damage 3.0 is on the way, however.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[Korakian]

3 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

In how so long exactly? Can still easily kill a lvl 100 anything, even bombards and heavy gunners. That goes not only for melee frames but primaries I use on them as well. Longer than 1 hour solo/in a team is completely unnecessary too, and when one wants it for some reason here are better frames for that and better setups. Didn't need it in the sortie as well. Especially since like I said, you can encounter players with any auras there if they're randoms, and you'll be the only one with CP like an idiot on a melee frame while even those who have innate '-' run energy siphons or something. Teamwork only has place in a pre-made, recruited group. Even so, you can wait for all eternity if you say need x frames, all should bring CP. 

How about no. Mandatory aura is ridiculous and so is the insane armor scaling. If even 50% of people were using it, than maybe, but the last time I saw it (4 cp) was Draco and not void or sortie. Damage 3.0 is on the way, however.

You can kill lvl 100 anything yea, but if you like to use random weapons and random frames for sorties, without a potato nor forma on it, it gets annoying, because of the armor stacks that enemies wear. The 1h runs I do are completly random aka that means i just go and choose a place and see how long i can go for, the teammates are also random. Teamwork can happen anywhere at any time, it does not need a premade team to work well with other people, even killwhoring is a part of teamwork and that is what valkyr does the best.

Also i didnt say that CP is mandatory I dont push it onto people, I suggest it to them. The last time I saw 4cp was one of those random runs I do. And I do hope Damage 3.0 fixes a lot of stuff, but it is kinda sad aswell as the weapons i have used forma on will probably not work the same.

[-Temp0-]

26 minutes ago, Korakian said:

You can kill lvl 100 anything yea, but if you like to use random weapons and random frames for sorties, without a potato nor forma on it, it gets annoying, because of the armor stacks that enemies wear. The 1h runs I do are completly random aka that means i just go and choose a place and see how long i can go for, the teammates are also random. Teamwork can happen anywhere at any time, it does not need a premade team to work well with other people, even killwhoring is a part of teamwork and that is what valkyr does the best.

Also i didnt say that CP is mandatory I dont push it onto people, I suggest it to them. The last time I saw 4cp was one of those random runs I do. And I do hope Damage 3.0 fixes a lot of stuff, but it is kinda sad aswell as the weapons i have used forma on will probably not work the same.

If you like to use random weapons without the catalyst to kill lvl 100 enemies you're some kind of a special case. And I mean "special". Your own fault basically. Your teammates have nothing to do with those problems.

You can suggest anything. Like I said, I very very often see people running bs like energy siphons even with a trinity in a team. I just don't rely on CP and don't belie that common sense that common when it comes to random people. It's a waste of time telling them to equip CP, they either don't have it, have builds that need siphons or need to forma their frames first which can't be done right away. Basically, useless. Those who know about CP already formad all the frames they need it for, those who only learning don't have the means to do so in majority of cases. Telling new players to forma melee frames or frmaes taht kinda need rifle amp without them understanding what they're doing will only hurt their build and nothing more.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[evilfluffy]

50 minutes ago, Korakian said:

Why shouldnt you forma a melee frame for CP? In the long run 30% less armor is better then 60% more melee dmg, as most people use guns not melee.

Why shouldn't a melee frame use Steelcharge especially if being used by a player mainly using (if not only using) melee?  Only time its an issue is augmented armor and even then that just means my combo builds up more resulting in more damage and red crits (bloodrush/body count).  So will I forma my Valkyr to use CP? Nah never.

[Thebel]

37 minutes ago, evilfluffy said:

Why shouldn't a melee frame use Steelcharge especially if being used by a player mainly using (if not only using) melee?  Only time its an issue is augmented armor and even then that just means my combo builds up more resulting in more damage and red crits (bloodrush/body count).  So will I forma my Valkyr to use CP? Nah never.

Because you running CP is probably most you'll contribute to a squad as a Valk in most missions.

 

[-Temp0-]

4 minutes ago, Thebel said:

Because you running CP is probably most you'll contribute to a squad as a Valk in most missions.

Lol. Sure. Because reviving overconfident people, getting life support when the place is crawling with enemies and it's already 20% or less, killing even high level enemies while those overconfident people are dying every minute or trying to get as far from them as possible, and not being a burden like many other frames in survival doesn't count. CP is all that matters.

[Thebel]

7 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Lol. Sure. Because reviving overconfident people, getting life support when the place is crawling with enemies and it's already 20% or less, killing even high level enemies while those overconfident people are dying every minute or trying to get as far from them as possible, and not being a burden like many other frames in survival doesn't count. CP is all that matters.

Pretty sure those are issues of running with baddies more than actual thing that Valk explicitly can contribute.

I mean we could easily flip it and say.

Valks with hysteria are overconfident because they can't die and they run off on their own in survivals, skewing the spawn rates and making the mission harder than it needs to be.

They don't bother with life support since their own kill count matters while they mindlessly claw away in a different room.

Also are we really going to pretend Valk needs more melee damage, when hysteria will effectively slaughter anything, with an average modded weapon.

I mean, not to say how you as an individual plays, but to the general experience of pugging with them, they are more of a burden than anything.