Orokin Moon Puzzles - Unfun and Frustrating

[Railgun_Alter]

I will admit that the common rewards suck.

What I cannot get is how can people say these vaults AREN'T fun.
Honestly when I stood in the Parkour Vault the frist time and I figured out how to move that beach ball, I was really excited, cause this kind of puzzle was a really interesting one in contrast to the usual Spy Missions. The same with the other 2 vaults, they are amazingly complicated and fun at the same time. 
I know there's supposed to be a 'simple' way in each vault to avoid the puzzles and whatnot and are supposedly faster. But I still prefer doing it the fun way. Mind you, I can easily be done with the mission in between 5-10 minutes (The dark corridors are sketchy.... Could I get a switch for my flaslight, please?)

You guys need to chill out a little. You just see hard and go "NOPE. NOT DOING THAT S#&$".
Same thing with the Sentients. And those you just need to stun with any of the various abilites out there (Can use Excal, Valkyr, Nova to do them BOOM, etc.) Just be a lil' more creative.

So what if I only got Astral Twilight once after 50 runs?
I'll take 100 more runs and get plat like crazy :P

[Loswaith]

On 4/8/2016 at 11:52 AM, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

... It's a puzzle that has 1 good solution and 2-3 annoying ones.  ...

Wouldn't it however, just be far more enjoyable to have 3-4 FUN ways and 0 annoying ways to complete the mission instead of having to deal with the 2-3 annoying ways at all.

[Datcoolguy]

On 4/25/2016 at 0:51 AM, Railgun_Alter said:

I will admit that the common rewards suck.

What I cannot get is how can people say these vaults AREN'T fun.
Honestly when I stood in the Parkour Vault the frist time and I figured out how to move that beach ball, I was really excited, cause this kind of puzzle was a really interesting one in contrast to the usual Spy Missions. The same with the other 2 vaults, they are amazingly complicated and fun at the same time. 
I know there's supposed to be a 'simple' way in each vault to avoid the puzzles and whatnot and are supposedly faster. But I still prefer doing it the fun way. Mind you, I can easily be done with the mission in between 5-10 minutes (The dark corridors are sketchy.... Could I get a switch for my flaslight, please?)

You guys need to chill out a little. You just see hard and go "NOPE. NOT DOING THAT S#&$".
Same thing with the Sentients. And those you just need to stun with any of the various abilites out there (Can use Excal, Valkyr, Nova to do them BOOM, etc.) Just be a lil' more creative.

So what if I only got Astral Twilight once after 50 runs?
I'll take 100 more runs and get plat like crazy :P

actually, the root of most people complains about the parkour puzzle is that the parkour system is still kinda akward and doesn't really work that well when it comes down to wall latching and precision jumping

[JHarlequin]

 I have taken a couple shots at moon spy now and I had a couple alarms merely because the wall jumping wouldn't move around any obstacles.  A couple other alarms because it just didn't work out too well.  Overall, I felt that there just isn't enough in the way of clues as to what is to be done.  Second to that issue is that it gets really fricking disorienting to walk through the vortexes.   I never seem to be aimed a decent direction compared to when I went in, or to which way I should be going now that I have popped out.

 As for the regular moon vaults, they are complicated and not exactly informative either, but they have a pay off, as people have mentioned.  You actually get a reward when you finish them.  The Moon spy rooms give you a random chance that is overloaded with things that really aren't needed by people that are on the level of actually playing that mission.  The chance at really rare mods is not nearly appropriate enough for what we have to go through right now.  But as more people learn how to complete the spy vaults, it will become easier and easier and those mods will become incredibly common.

 Maybe the drop chance is okay for the future, and we just have to wait until we are all willing to learn the moon spy that much more.  But it's a major hassle, and really not quite as fun as other spy vaults, or other orokin vaults.  The moon spy vaults just seem way too overcomplicated, and the normal moon vaults are also very complicated.  Once you know how, they are too simple, but when you see them the first ten times or however many times it takes to figure them out, they just suck because you don't expect to have a chance to complete them.

 By the way, have you checked out some of the youtube videos for Loki doing co-action.  That solo effort of just teleporting to the end in two or three shots is just as ridiculous as Loki always has been.

[Navarc]

I thought you'd complain about the only puzzle that is TRULY unfair because you only have 1 chance to do it & it spawns in about 1/25 missions. Speed Drift. 2039 hours of gameplay and I've seen it about 8 times and failed it each time, last time I attempted it a bursa pulled me onto ice and killed me.

[TheJagji]

26 minutes ago, Navarchus said:

I thought you'd complain about the only puzzle that is TRULY unfair because you only have 1 chance to do it & it spawns in about 1/25 missions. Speed Drift. 2039 hours of gameplay and I've seen it about 8 times and failed it each time, last time I attempted it a bursa pulled me onto ice and killed me.

How long have you played since you unlocked Moon? Saying you have played 2000+ hours is without seeing it is silly, as there is no way you could have done that many hours since the Moon came out, unless you don't sleep and only play Warframe... and even then, still probably wont.

[BlackCoMerc]

On 4/20/2016 at 2:23 PM, magusat999 said:

I took some time to learn some of these mysterious "other ways" to solve each puzzle because I find the parkour way to be too iffy and downright unpredictable at times. I pretty much have a "safe" way to complete 2 of them. The third is the one with the lasers and dropping doors. if I can find a way to NOT have to run through that course... Anyway, after putting time into at least being able to get through it - the kick in the "gahones"  that might seriously end my interest in Spy missions was the ridiculously pathetic rewards. Unlike the random Moon puzzles, which give you a guaranteed drop, DE decided to torture us with these irritating puzzles, and to add misery to insult, put RNG rewards on them on completion - and I mean really unsatisfying rewards. Sure, there are exclusive mods you MIGHT get - but what is the chance??? How many sessions does one have to suffer through? Why are the rewards as bad as this - even if you don't get one of the rare mods - how unsatisfying is it to get something you can get (and better) in the first missions of the game? Why doesn't it reflect the level and difficulty? At least drop "Hell's Chamber" level mods - or all rare mads... but this? Come on - really not worth the effort...

This totally stopped me from playing Moon Spy missions... guess it's back to the trade channel if I want those mods.

This is the reason I will not even bother TRYING to learn the Moon Spy missions. They are ridiculously hard given the finicky controls. And not hard in a good way. Add to that these rewards and honestly, yeah...its literally not worth the time or effort.

Which brings me to another discussion entirely: The rewards in this game have reached insulting levels. Common mods on the first two waves of Interception at or above level 30; Orokin Cells on B and C rotations at T2 and T3; Uncommon mods from all 3 caches in Tower Sabotage and Reactor Sabotage missions; utterly diluted, garbage filled Spy reward lists; and of course the bad joke that is Sortie rewards. 

A little Grind is one thing. Outright wasting your players' time is another entirely. Its no wonder I spend as much or more time looking for other games to play as I do playing Warframe these days. I love Warframe. I do. And I want it to be better. But for that to happen DE have to be willing to put players ahead of their monetization scheme and I dont frankly see that happening until and unless they begin actually losing players.

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

Once I figured out how to use the rift planes to my advantage, I started to really like the spy part.

But I was very sad to see that there is a drift mod puzzle that cannot be solo'd at all. I know this is meant to be played with others, but there are still a lot of players who either prefer solo or have to play solo due to their connection. Making the puzzle extremely hard for a solo player would be okay with me, but there should be some way to do it imo. 

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by (PS4)Bowjangelz

[Lyravain]

On 10/4/2016 at 5:34 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

So the devs introduce very useful rewards and make them available in only ONE way? Mind you these are rewards that are very useful to a wide variety of frames, in a wide variety of situations.

Yet no one is forcing me to run these missions.

Of course they arent. So long as I am willing to forgo these very useful rewards, I dont have to run these missions.

Just like I dont have to run the irritating Uranus Sharkwing missions either. So long as I am willing to forgo a chance at ALL of the useful Parkour Exilus mods.

But that's okay. Keep defending these poor design decisions that drive players away from a game that depends on a large community in order to exist. 

Yes, the devs introduced them in only a specific way, deal with it. Were you complaining about WoW's drop-tables too? When a specific armor set or weapon dropped from a specific boss and you farmed that ONE BOSS for days on end to get it, were you complaining, or did you say 'meh, that's the way things are, that's where I can find it, that's what I'll farm to death'?

Just accept that some rewards are where they are. And if you're so ticked off about the common/uncommon Stalker mods in Moon Spy, where were YOU when the acolytes were about? Slacking on the job, Tenno? Tsk tsk tsk. Just be glad that we can get them and are not exclusive event mods (then you'd be complaining about them being exclusive mods, I guess -or you'd be saying 'them's the breaks' to everyone else complaining if you had farmed them). Subjectivity, thy middle name is hypocrisy.

To the OP; ALL but the Coaction Drift mods can be acquired solo. Been there, done that, multiple times. From the cheesy ways to the hard, frustrating ways. And the Coaction one just requires 1 more person. Surely you have a friend or two that would want to come along and get those super-rare mods -many of them in this very post yes? Gather up Tenno.

The Moon Spy missions are annoying. Myself, I only did them once to finish the tile. I do know some clan-mates though that routinely farm them, making a mint by selling the mods they get from there. Which means, like all other Spy missions, these are also just as farm-able as any other, just have more than one 'proper' way to do them.

TL;DR: I like them as they are. They are tough, but the feeling of completing them is much better (oh, the laughter and joy of finally completing the pipe-organ for the first time, the hard way). Not gonna say 'git gud' (I myself am not 'gud'), but I'll say; research on them, take your time and see them for what they are; extra little challenges that might give you something cool -or they might not.

[magusat999]

58 minutes ago, Lyravain said:

Yes, the devs introduced them in only a specific way, deal with it. Were you complaining about WoW's drop-tables too? When a specific armor set or weapon dropped from a specific boss and you farmed that ONE BOSS for days on end to get it, were you complaining, or did you say 'meh, that's the way things are, that's where I can find it, that's what I'll farm to death'?

Just accept that some rewards are where they are. And if you're so ticked off about the common/uncommon Stalker mods in Moon Spy, where were YOU when the acolytes were about? Slacking on the job, Tenno? Tsk tsk tsk. Just be glad that we can get them and are not exclusive event mods (then you'd be complaining about them being exclusive mods, I guess -or you'd be saying 'them's the breaks' to everyone else complaining if you had farmed them). Subjectivity, thy middle name is hypocrisy.

To the OP; ALL but the Coaction Drift mods can be acquired solo. Been there, done that, multiple times. From the cheesy ways to the hard, frustrating ways. And the Coaction one just requires 1 more person. Surely you have a friend or two that would want to come along and get those super-rare mods -many of them in this very post yes? Gather up Tenno.

The Moon Spy missions are annoying. Myself, I only did them once to finish the tile. I do know some clan-mates though that routinely farm them, making a mint by selling the mods they get from there. Which means, like all other Spy missions, these are also just as farm-able as any other, just have more than one 'proper' way to do them.

TL;DR: I like them as they are. They are tough, but the feeling of completing them is much better (oh, the laughter and joy of finally completing the pipe-organ for the first time, the hard way). Not gonna say 'git gud' (I myself am not 'gud'), but I'll say; research on them, take your time and see them for what they are; extra little challenges that might give you something cool -or they might not.

I don't know about the person you quoted, but there are two sets of puzzles in the Moon missions. The "Drift" puzzles and the "Spy" puzzles. It is the Spy puzzles that people generally say are a waste of time and should have better rewards, even if you don't get the rare mods from them.

Those rare mods ARE the acolyte mission mods, so it shouldn't matter if a "Tenno" missed those missions. Those missions are over - time to drop them somewhere else - with better RNG then we are currently experiencing. Not to say they should automatically drop every time you do a spy puzzle - but the rate shouldn't be 1 in 1 billion tries either. And we certainly shouldn't be getting a common mod as a consolation prize.

The moon puzzles, by contrast, the ones you get the Drift mods from, are not hard. There is that unfair "co-action" one, and what is unfair about it is they didn't program the game not to have it appear in games where there are not enough players. You can also call "unfair" in this respect, stupid and ridiculous. Edit: Oh and the stupid Endurance Drift, which if you don't have the right frame, requires you to get a frame with very high shields and health if you want to make it and get the Endurance Drift mod. Kind of ridiculous in it's own right. You shouldn't need a particular frame to solve these puzzles - should be multiple ways so any frame has a chance - but even though there WAS another way to solve Endurance Drift - DE nerfed the other solution and now you MUST acquire another Warframe if you don't have one that "qualifies" to complete THAT puzzle. Still - that won't stop it from appearing in your mission... game doesn't notice if players do not qualify...

Although you brow-beat someone for complaining, you turn around in the same post and admit you can't stand the Moon Spy missions so much you don't play them. That isn't a statement that fits your "get used to it" attitude.  The difference in the mods dropping from these puzzles (Spy missions) and a boss is - We have been equipped to deal with Bosses. This game's mechanics are too slipshod for the Moon Spy missions. Yeah, there are some people who "get it", but quite a lot that cannot, because it requires actions badly implemented in Warframe's movement systems. So there is quite a valid reason to complain, and it is NOT fine for many people.

Edited April 28, 2016 by magusat999

[Lyravain]

3 hours ago, magusat999 said:

I don't know about the person you quoted, but there are two sets of puzzles in the Moon missions. The "Drift" puzzles and the "Spy" puzzles. It is the Spy puzzles that people generally say are a waste of time and should have better rewards, even if you don't get the rare mods from them.

Those rare mods ARE the acolyte mission mods, so it shouldn't matter if a "Tenno" missed those missions. Those missions are over - time to drop them somewhere else - with better RNG then we are currently experiencing. Not to say they should automatically drop every time you do a spy puzzle - but the rate shouldn't be 1 in 1 billion tries either. And we certainly shouldn't be getting a common mod as a consolation prize.

The moon puzzles, by contrast, the ones you get the Drift mods from, are not hard. There is that unfair "co-action" one, and what is unfair about it is they didn't program the game not to have it appear in games where there are not enough players. You can also call "unfair" in this respect, stupid and ridiculous. Edit: Oh and the stupid Endurance Drift, which if you don't have the right frame, requires you to get a frame with very high shields and health if you want to make it and get the Endurance Drift mod. Kind of ridiculous in it's own right. You shouldn't need a particular frame to solve these puzzles - should be multiple ways so any frame has a chance - but even though there WAS another way to solve Endurance Drift - DE nerfed the other solution and now you MUST acquire another Warframe if you don't have one that "qualifies" to complete THAT puzzle. Still - that won't stop it from appearing in your mission... game doesn't notice if players do not qualify...

Although you brow-beat someone for complaining, you turn around in the same post and admit you can't stand the Moon Spy missions so much you don't play them. That isn't a statement that fits your "get used to it" attitude.  The difference in the mods dropping from these puzzles (Spy missions) and a boss is - We have been equipped to deal with Bosses. This game's mechanics are too slipshod for the Moon Spy missions. Yeah, there are some people who "get it", but quite a lot that cannot, because it requires actions badly implemented in Warframe's movement systems. So there is quite a valid reason to complain, and it is NOT fine for many people.

I played them once. Didn't like them. So? At no point did I start complaining about them. I also admit I played them once -I played WAY more of the 'normal' (read; old) spy missions before I learned my do's and dont's. I simply had no reason to farm them. I also admitted that there are people who find them easy -so there are ways to get through them easily enough if someone devotes enough time. My biggest problem with them was that you have no point A->point B->point C guide. But as with everything; do it a couple of times, research it, it gets easy. I know people who have less than a tenth of my hours played and do them just for the funzies. I might even join them, because I liked the premise of the missions.

My biggest brow-beating however comes from people who don't research or ask around about how to run through the Drift puzzles and just declare them impossible unless you have a full team. I've had way many people complaining about how they didn't get it done the first time and therefore they are impossible to complete. Try, try again and get used to things.

In other words; when I first did any kind of mission, I didn't like it. Exterminates? Deceptions? Spy? All of them. Defence especially ("I have to keep myself alive and this piece of junk with the life expectancy of a fruit fly? No, thanks"). For a long time, I just didn't do them. It took time, understanding, familiarization and just plain getting used to the game's flow. Then, they became easy. Moral of the story; the first time you do anything, it's tough (real-life too rule too), but do it enough times and you get used to it. Stop complaining and get to playing.

[magusat999]

1 hour ago, Lyravain said:

I played them once. Didn't like them. So? At no point did I start complaining about them. I also admit I played them once -I played WAY more of the 'normal' (read; old) spy missions before I learned my do's and dont's. I simply had no reason to farm them. I also admitted that there are people who find them easy -so there are ways to get through them easily enough if someone devotes enough time. My biggest problem with them was that you have no point A->point B->point C guide. But as with everything; do it a couple of times, research it, it gets easy. I know people who have less than a tenth of my hours played and do them just for the funzies. I might even join them, because I liked the premise of the missions.

My biggest brow-beating however comes from people who don't research or ask around about how to run through the Drift puzzles and just declare them impossible unless you have a full team. I've had way many people complaining about how they didn't get it done the first time and therefore they are impossible to complete. Try, try again and get used to things.

In other words; when I first did any kind of mission, I didn't like it. Exterminates? Deceptions? Spy? All of them. Defence especially ("I have to keep myself alive and this piece of junk with the life expectancy of a fruit fly? No, thanks"). For a long time, I just didn't do them. It took time, understanding, familiarization and just plain getting used to the game's flow. Then, they became easy. Moral of the story; the first time you do anything, it's tough (real-life too rule too), but do it enough times and you get used to it. Stop complaining and get to playing.

Well it is sort of complaining when you say " The Moon Spy missions are annoying. Myself, I only did them once to finish the tile. ". that is what I was referring to. maybe you didn't "mean it" to sound like a complaint, but saying something is annoying, and then following up by saying you only finished them to get the title - kind of comes off as a complaint. 

And i agree with you on the Drift missions, (most of them) being easy. But it's the Spy missions that are convoluted, too troublesome and problematic for the "CHANCE" to get a rare mod. No issues with the Drift puzzle (except Co-Action appearing for a Solo mission, or the irritating Endurance Drift)... It's the regular Moon Spy missions that are ridiculous - I can see why you only did them once...

Lastly, if people don't complain, things never get addressed. Nothing you say is going to stop people from complaining - no more than anything someone says is going to stop you from complaining about people complaining (meta- complaint). it kind of a waste of space to make a post, telling people they need to stop complaining - and presumptuous. Neither one of us knows how the other person's experience is and we cannot tell other people what they should and shouldn't respond to - or complain about. If your happy with it, then get off the forum and... play the game, right?

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

The Moon Spy Vaults can be done easily with Ivara, try her, her rip line shine in those. Plus they do give you the time travel option if one route is too difficult. 

...but I agree I hate that one where the tubes blow you upwards and you gotta time your landing into the next one.