Saryn, whats the point.

[(PSN)official_79]

Whenever I select a mission I like to think about what particular characteristics made me choose the frame im using, and why they are the better choice. When im playing solo survival I choose hybroid over nekros, due to simultaneous kills and increased resources, when im playing conclave I choose Oberon over all else due to flexibility, and when im leveling focus on draco I choose excal because he is essentially a lawn mower. However, when it comes to Saryn I see no reason to choose her over any other warframe. Before I made Saryn Prime I was assured she was a great warframe due to all the feedback the community gave her, and that anyone that said otherwise probably didn't know how to use her. But now that I have used her for myself I can't help but think that was a lie. Her damage is trash at high levels. What many people see as synergy is truly just dependency. Her ultimate isnt even an ultimate as it is dependent on all of her other abilities and only serves as an "oh S#&$" button by itself giving a short lived stun. I was able to kill 6 lvl 100 corrupted heavy gunners with Atlas with a combo I thought up on the spot with great reliability. I was able to kill 20 with Excalibur without a sweat. Another 6 with nova. Another 20 with Wukong and Valkyr. I could go on but what im getting at is the combinations of all these abilities give great and consistent payoff and makes them worth the effort put into it. All the energy, skill, and timing required to use her combo isn't worth it when I could do the same with other warframes with a fraction of the effort. I can admit I personally do not know how to use Saryn, I want to learn the insides and outs of this warframe but as of now I don't see the point.

[RagingGrizzly]

The point is people use her because they like doing it...

[Xgomme]

She's more an ultra debuff frame than the nuker she was before. She can still nuke really well but you'll have to play with full viral and toxine weapons. More procs and spores on mobs means more damages from her 4. And you can spread spores via your molt too

I play her with a very big range and some durability, so i can spread spores everywhere. I play with Torid, Ambolist and Boltace and the regen molt augment. She's really strong and scale better than her older version. With the nuker saryn it was hard to kill a mob past lvl 50... Not now ^^

[ZeroGenmu]

Basically what I read is, "I can't kill everything with 1 button therefore it's a bad frame." Too many frames are push 1 button to win to be honest and it doesn't require much skill or effort to play them and that makes for boring game play in my opinion. Saryn requires more of a team built around her and even then she does pretty well as long as you're not fighting high level corpus. Her spores cause viral which makes killing high level targets a lot easier. Her 2 gives her a good amount of health back if placed in a safe place or even for a quick spam heal and also draws aggro. Although her 2 isn't great in higher levels cuz of how fast it dies but a small heal with the augment is still better than none. Her 3 with a Redeemer lets you combo with her 1 a lot easier cuz of the toxin proc as well as offering some energy back with a bit of range. And her 4 offers a good panic cc when needed. People complained about Saryn's 4 being nerfed but it wasn't a nerf as much as a rework. Her 4 still has the potential of having huge amounts of damage, just requires a bit more effort and a team good team comp. This game is a team oriented game unless you play solo and in which case there are better solo games you can play. 

[Gelkor]

Because she's fun for me and I play videogames to have fun.

[Archeyef]

The point is to have fun. If you don't like playing her don't play her. Rank her and never touch her again.

It's fine to not have fun playing a particular frame. Each frame has a different playstyle and none of them are going to appeal to everyone. So don't worry about it.

[(PSN)official_79]

2 minutes ago, ZeroGenmu said:

Basically what I read is, "I can't kill everything with 1 button therefore it's a bad frame." Too many frames are push 1 button to win to be honest and it doesn't require much skill or effort to play them and that makes for boring game play in my opinion. Saryn requires more of a team built around her and even then she does pretty well as long as you're not fighting high level corpus. Her spores cause viral which makes killing high level targets a lot easier. Her 2 gives her a good amount of health back if placed in a safe place or even for a quick spam heal and also draws aggro. Although her 2 isn't great in higher levels cuz of how fast it dies but a small heal with the augment is still better than none. Her 3 with a Redeemer lets you combo with her 1 a lot easier cuz of the toxin proc as well as offering some energy back with a bit of range. And her 4 offers a good panic cc when needed. People complained about Saryn's 4 being nerfed but it wasn't a nerf as much as a rework. Her 4 still has the potential of having huge amounts of damage, just requires a bit more effort and a team good team comp. This game is a team oriented game unless you play solo and in which case there are better solo games you can play. 

Don't misunderstand my opinions. If I only cared about killing with one button I wouldnt touch Nova, Loki, Nezha, or Atlas. This is the toxicity ive found along the way. So many people are so quick to brand players as "press 4 to winners". Saryn requires a whole team built around her? How bad as a frame can she be? Can she not function unassisted?

[ZeroGenmu]

Just now, (PS4)official_79 said:

Don't misunderstand my opinions. If I only cared about killing with one button I wouldnt touch Nova, Loki, Nezha, or Atlas. This is the toxicity ive found along the way. So many people are so quick to brand players as "press 4 to winners". Saryn requires a whole team built around her? How bad as a frame can she be? Can she not function unassisted?

Never said she couldn't function without a team. She's just better with a team, then again which frame wouldn't be better off with other frames that can compliment their abilities. This game is focused around team work after all. And also never even said anything about press 4 to win, simply summarized what you said about Saryn into one sentence which is, "I can't kill everything with 1 button therefore it's a bad frame." Which is clear considering you're comparing her to Wukong, Atlas, Valkyr, and Excalibur. 

[Gelkor]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

Don't misunderstand my opinions. If I only cared about killing with one button I wouldnt touch Nova, Loki, Nezha, or Atlas. This is the toxicity ive found along the way. So many people are so quick to brand players as "press 4 to winners". Saryn requires a whole team built around her? How bad as a frame can she be? Can she not function unassisted?

I don't know what he's talking about needing a team or being weak against corpus.  Toxin bypasses shields. Done Deal. Also, I pretty much play exclusively solo and have no trouble.  Sure, I wouldn't take her to draco, but then, I never go to draco, I play the game.

[Xgomme]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

Don't misunderstand my opinions. If I only cared about killing with one button I wouldnt touch Nova, Loki, Nezha, or Atlas. This is the toxicity ive found along the way. So many people are so quick to brand players as "press 4 to winners". Saryn requires a whole team built around her? How bad as a frame can she be? Can she not function unassisted?

She totally can, but paired with a nova for example it's really good. Like Equinox+Nova, they're both great alone, but totally deadly once paired

She's a high debuff frame, but like anything in WF you can make it almost DPS with the right team and buffs

[Ivan_Rid]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

Don't misunderstand my opinions. If I only cared about killing with one button I wouldnt touch Nova, Loki, Nezha, or Atlas. This is the toxicity ive found along the way. So many people are so quick to brand players as "press 4 to winners". Saryn requires a whole team built around her? How bad as a frame can she be? Can she not function unassisted?

Saryn works great only on paper. Theres is a lot of hidden mechanics, anti-synergies and what seems to be bugs dragging her down. She is subpar end game debuffer despite being a dedicated debuffer. All legitimate criticism is met with "git gud", "lol look he wants p4toWin", "you build her wrong" and the like. Check up on "Saryn DPS" thread in a warframe&abilities feedback for at least somewhat decent discussion.

[ZeroGenmu]

1 minute ago, Gelkor said:

I don't know what he's talking about needing a team or being weak against corpus.  Toxin bypasses shields. Done Deal. Also, I pretty much play exclusively solo and have no trouble.  Sure, I wouldn't take her to draco, but then, I never go to draco, I play the game.

Her spores are buggy at the moment since they actually don't bypass shields. Toxin might but not the viral proc sadly. I've never seen a Saryn do good in a sortie 3 corpus map they just melt instantly since they can't handle the amount of pew pew that goes around. Corpus is actually the only faction that can hinder Saryn especially when nullies come in the mix.

[TARINunit9]

@(PS4)official_79

The thing with Saryn is that she's a self-sustaining Speed Nova. Her 1 does the same thing as Nova (halves enemy health) but automatically spreads to new enemies instead of having to recast it (and even if you do, it's 75% cheaper). The only thing she's lacking is a way to reduce the incoming damage to herself; this is supposed to be balanced by being naturally sturdier than Nova, but I think we all know how well the armor stat fares in this game

(and before anyone tells me to use Toxic Lash's blocking buff, tell me: when was the last time you actually blocked something in this game?)

[Gelkor]

Just now, ZeroGenmu said:

Her spores are buggy at the moment since they actually don't bypass shields. Toxin might but not the viral proc sadly. I've never seen a Saryn do good in a sortie 3 corpus map they just melt instantly since they can't handle the amount of pew pew that goes around. Corpus is actually the only faction that can hinder Saryn especially when nullies come in the mix.

Viral damage doesn't bypass shields. Toxin damage bypasses shields. 

[AM-Bunny]

Honestly your criticism can be applied to many of the Warframes in the game, not just Saryn.

It isn't even really saying anything about the power of the Warframe -- Wukong, Inaros, and Valkyr may all be powerful Warframes, but how many invincible Warframes do you really need? If you have Valkyr for missions that you absolutely have to tank ridiculous damage, the other two become quite redundant and superfluous, even if they are strong in their own right.

[ZeroGenmu]

Just now, Gelkor said:

Viral damage doesn't bypass shields. Toxin damage bypasses shields. 

Yeah which is bad since the point of spores is to cut health in half so toxin can pick off low health targets. That's the whole point of viral+toxin combo with Saryn. 

[(PSN)official_79]

2 minutes ago, ZeroGenmu said:

Never said she couldn't function without a team. She's just better with a team, then again which frame wouldn't be better off with other frames that can compliment their abilities. This game is focused around team work after all. And also never even said anything about press 4 to win, simply summarized what you said about Saryn into one sentence which is, "I can't kill everything with 1 button therefore it's a bad frame." Which is clear considering you're comparing her to Wukong, Atlas, Valkyr, and Excalibur. 

How is Atlas a one button frame? When I went against those six gunners I used a titanic rumbler to bullet sponge, petrify to freeze them, then mashed the the crap out of them with his one. I also compared her to nova which is definitely not a one button frame.

[-Amaterasu-]

1 minute ago, (PS4)official_79 said:

Don't misunderstand my opinions. If I only cared about killing with one button I wouldnt touch Nova, Loki, Nezha, or Atlas. This is the toxicity ive found along the way. So many people are so quick to brand players as "press 4 to winners". Saryn requires a whole team built around her? How bad as a frame can she be? Can she not function unassisted?

I think the biggest problem with saryn right now is her ult which has way too much build up for dissapointment Spore is her best ability by far just make sure you're using a toxic/Gas weapon and you should have no trouble killing 100+ void enemies in seconds the only thing that usually ends up stopping me from killing things is lack of ammo.

[ZeroGenmu]

Just now, (PS4)official_79 said:

How is Atlas a one button frame? When I went against those six gunners I used a titanic rumbler to bullet sponge, petrify to freeze them, then mashed the the crap out of them with his one. I also compared her to nova which is definitely not a one button frame.

His 1 just murders the entire group before you even need to petrify anything lol. He's a 1 button frame if you build for it, but obviously there are other ways to play him just as well.

[Xgomme]

For me the real big problem with her (without talking about random bugs) is the way the molt is made...

 

I mean they changed Frost bubble to something usable endgame, cool. But why the molt isn't made the same way ? (xx time of invicibility to scale its life)

 

(Oh and maybe the whole status stacking concept, we need this... At the moment you don't need more than 100% for other procs than corrosive and it kinda sucks ^^" )

Edited April 12, 2016 by Xgomme

[TARINunit9]

3 minutes ago, ZeroGenmu said:

Yeah which is bad since the point of spores is to cut health in half so toxin can pick off low health targets. That's the whole point of viral+toxin combo with Saryn. 

Viral PROCS bypass shields. The enemies are still getting their health halved. So if you halve the enemy health, and use weapons that ignore shields and go straight for the health... do the math

Edited April 12, 2016 by TARINunit9

[Ailith]

Personally, I think her reworked kit requires too much setup to maximize her damage. It's sort of the opposite problem of "press [button] to win", you have to push every button (multiple times) to deal large amounts of damage.

I guess the real problem is that all of her skills are much less useful on their own now.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Ailith

[(PSN)official_79]

1 minute ago, ZeroGenmu said:

His 1 just murders the entire group before you even need to petrify anything lol. He's a 1 button frame if you build for it, but obviously there are other ways to play him just as well.

Definitely. With the combo I just said I cant go below using 130 energy

[ZeroGenmu]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Viral PROCS bypass shields. The enemies are still getting their health halved. So if you half the enemy health, and use weapons that ignore shields and go straight for the health... do the math

I use to have issues with it not bypassing shields though, unless they fixed it. Which is 1 reason why I don't take her into corpus maps anymore.

[Rambit23Z]

Remember that Saryn constantly has an effective 2x multiplier due to viral procs halving enemy HP. Whenever you see a damage number, double it to get a more accurate representation.

I could go more in-depth, but that takes a while.