About the Tonkor's MR Requirement

[Sapphic-Sandra]

This thread had so much elitism I'm surprised it hasn't tripped over its own medals and ribbons.

[Marvelous_A]

1 hour ago, ashrah said:

all end game wepons need to be locked behind high rank.... wen i started game i used normal boltor up to rank 6.....and game will be much more fun for new players if they fight for progress....not just jump on best guns

Boltor is just another tonkor for players who don't have MR5. TBH 90% of weapons are little more than MR fodder(or garbage in other words) and will start to be ineffective in mid-game. This is not progress, it is just you don't have any choice but to stick with inferior weapons. And you can't access end game content with a tonkor without investing formas and potato. Even tonkor needs a lot of investments and this is what we call "progress", not the inferior goods bs.

[ashrah]

17 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Boltor is just another tonkor for players who don't have MR5. TBH 90% of weapons are little more than MR fodder(or garbage in other words) and will start to be ineffective in mid-game. This is not progress, it is just you don't have any choice but to stick with inferior weapons. And you can't access end game content with a tonkor without investing formas and potato. Even tonkor needs a lot of investments and this is what we call "progress", not the inferior goods bs.

70% is how u mod wepons frames....i did 10k cryo with dera vandal.....we need  mastery tier lock wepons... t1 mastery 1-5 tier2 mastery 5-10 tier3 mastery 10-15

[ivlr3vil]

A well modded Tonkor is on par with the Syndicate weapons which require a high MR. It would only make sense to make it MR12.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, ivlr3vil said:

A well modded Tonkor is on par with the Syndicate weapons which require a high MR. It would only make sense to make it MR12.

Are they adding some type of room wide dmg and buff effect to the Tonkor?

[Marvelous_A]

23 minutes ago, ashrah said:

70% is how u mod wepons frames....i did 10k cryo with dera vandal.....we need  mastery tier lock wepons... t1 mastery 1-5 tier2 mastery 5-10 tier3 mastery 10-15

It may work if the players are actually doing starchart missions which in fact is not the truth. Your idea will only force more new players to do draco so they can reach the required MR level ASAP to get some weapons that are actually useful. Or maybe uninstall the game because it just takes too much time without draco. I can't even imagine how do they do sorties or T3/4 void missions with fodder weapons, which are pretty much the few missions that actually give good rewards. New players can't access most of the interesting content without proper weapons and veterans just don't bother playing with low MR players as they are just too weak. So you are essentially allowing only veterans to have all the fun.

[arch111]

I blame the starchart and new player experience. And the fact that the starchart echoes empty.

[ashrah]

32 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

It may work if the players are actually doing starchart missions which in fact is not the truth. Your idea will only force more new players to do draco so they can reach the required MR level ASAP to get some weapons that are actually useful. Or maybe uninstall the game because it just takes too much time without draco. I can't even imagine how do they do sorties or T3/4 void missions with fodder weapons, which are pretty much the few missions that actually give good rewards. New players can't access most of the interesting content without proper weapons and veterans just don't bother playing with low MR players as they are just too weak. So you are essentially allowing only veterans to have all the fun.

that is problem... in warframe   wen low rank players go in end game.....! de need  to find way to make players play game i slowleyy progress.....and be rewarded for playing........but in same time  low mr rank should not be allowed to have acess to everything that is very bad for game

[Ham606]

Hmmm I came here expecting to read some sort of thread about the Tonkor and 4 pages in people are arguing about MR. So I'm inclined to believe that it's an MR-related issues thread. Which is cool.

Anyway, what's the issue people have with the Tonkor? I couldn't get to the bottom of it :P

[Currilicious]

Just now, Ham606 said:

Hmmm I came here expecting to read some sort of thread about the Tonkor and 4 pages in people are arguing about MR. So I'm inclined to believe that it's an MR-related issues thread. Which is cool.

Anyway, what's the issue people have with the Tonkor? I couldn't get to the bottom of it :P

Apparently some here thinks Tonkor is the seed of evil, sowed onto our young Tenno, that would ultimately lead us to hellish oblivion.

[Avereth]

I like the MR requirement where it is.  As someone who has hardly ever run Draco, I find arbitrarily leveling useless weapons horrendously boring, and as such am only MR10 even though I am max rank in 2 syndicates.  Taking away Tonkor would just make it harder to deal with heavy enemies at level 100+ as any warframe that can't safely melee at that level range.

[Ham606]

13 minutes ago, Currilicious said:

Apparently some here thinks Tonkor is the seed of evil, sowed onto our young Tenno, that would ultimately lead us to hellish oblivion.

Gods Below! Why did nobody tell me that?! Now how am I supposed to go on knowing that this pristine and established online community is on the verge of plunging into a hellish oblivion?

This is serious ladies and gents. Very serious.

http://giphy.com/gifs/time-S#&$tyreactiongifs-spanish-CLrEXbY34xfPi

 

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Ham606

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

11 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

I don't have a problem with low rank players using it, but the mastery should be at least rank 12. Most of the very powerful weapons should be set to 12 to give players a sense of progression, equipment wise.

agreed.

 

[Th3Soc1al1st]

18 hours ago, Tennonat said:

I feel like the Mastery Requirement for the Tonkor should be raised. Almost every low rank player i see is using a Tonkor, I really think the requirement should be Rank 15 / 16. 

I literally see every player using a tonkor

that or the Simulor

[Obviousclone]

18 hours ago, arch111 said:

Aren't the resource-gathering roadblocks enough? I think Mastery should be Rank among the Tenno indtead and give bonuses and MR only rewards. 

I much rather have weapon-progression where you need to Max a certain weapon to unlock a new one above it.

Say I use and master Penta. Then I can get the Tonkor, like a tree for weapons.

This would encourage using weapons of a certain family, like bows, if that's ny thing.

 

A few days ago, I traded some plat for some primed weapons/primed warframes (I'm too lazy to read drop tables and pick missions to farm in the void, bite me). Immediately after claiming my Braton Prime and Ash prime (and Scindo prime), I decided to level them simultaneously, but instead of doing a (moon) spy missions like usual, I chose to instead first take both unranked gun and frame into a low level exterminate mission (I think I chose the level 1-3 mercury exterminate). After all, it was the Braton, the first gun I picked up, feels nostalgic to take out level 1 grineer lancers with it, right?

Anyways, once I was in the mission, another new player joined, MR 1, and because I wanted to be a nice guy to what I presumed was a new player, I chose to try to clear the mission at the same pace as he did, so he could also kill and actually play the game (instead of using my parkour knowledge to outrun him). He was very stealthy about his movements, so I also moved stealthily and slowly.

At the end of the mission, he actually pm'd me and thanked me for playing the game stealthily like he was (felt good man). But then I checked his loadout.

It was a volt.... with a Zhuge.

A Zhuge.

MR 1, with a Zhuge.

Like that just blew my mind.

I immediately checked Zhuge's MR requirement on the wiki, it's actually 0. Freaking 0. And this gun was released in one of the more recent patches (18.6). And the requirements? All you need is nitain (which, let's face it, anyone can acquire (especially new players, who are always running alerts of any type), just hop/taxi into a pub nitain alert and you'll get carried by everyone else trying to grab that alertium), two argon crystals (which again, none too difficult to snag from the void), And some Cryotic, which again, is a few simple trips to Lua, Earth. The blueprint is an easy pick up off the market. The requirements aren't something you're going to build instantly on day one, but the fact that I see a relatively new player, an MR 1 Volt, with a Zhuge? Personally, I'm thinking that resource limiting isn't really strong enough.

And like, the Zhuge itself, is a pretty good gun! High status(35%), high crit (20% and 2.0x, yes you can totally double dip status+crit with Hammershot), automatic and silent (also counts as a bow for bow-only sorties, and there are people who are picking up on this and using it as their main bow-sortie weapon), base DPS is pretty up there (boltor prime is like, 550 DPS, Zhuge is like 417 DPS, the Braton is 176 DPS when we compare base damage per shot*firerate), this gun is a huge leap in power, especially for a new player! And if that MR 1 volt (who I don't specifically remember, but I think was also running some other MK-1 weapons in the mission) can get a basically end-game weapon, I don't think resource locking is good enough.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Obviousclone

[TrickshotMcGee]

I think MR locks work, but only up to a certain point. There are easymode weapons that need to be kept out of newbie's hands. If you locked strong weapons away behind essentially vet-only barriers, that's pretty frustrating for newer people. Me, for example, I am MR 8 with around 340 hours and refuse to try Tonkor because of my high horse and all, but if I did want to use it and it was locked behind a wall I'd have to grind dozens of crap weapons to get, I'd be rather irritated. That's time and resources poured into guns that I'm just going to throw away and frankly, some of them are better than the Tonkor. Making that lofty goal blinds players to what they've already got access to. Take the Tigris as an example. AMAZING GUN, but I hardly ever see it given praise. With minimal modding, it stays strong up to around Neptune. Good modding goes up to sorties, and I haven't even forma'd it yet. By no means does it have a high MR req. A player would have to grind through it and throw it away to get to the Tonkor if MR was raised to a ridiculous level, though it's able to clear a room at a lower cost than other high-tier weapons. 

It's weapons behind high MRs that make people overlook potential good guns they would have seen otherwise. 

[arch111]

41 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

A few days ago, I traded some plat for some primed weapons/primed warframes (I'm too lazy to read drop tables and pick missions to farm in the void, bite me). Immediately after claiming my Braton Prime and Ash prime (and Scindo prime), I decided to level them simultaneously, but instead of doing a (moon) spy missions like usual, I chose to instead first take both unranked gun and frame into a low level exterminate mission (I think I chose the level 1-3 mercury exterminate). After all, it was the Braton, the first gun I picked up, feels nostalgic to take out level 1 grineer lancers with it, right?

Anyways, once I was in the mission, another new player joined, MR 1, and because I wanted to be a nice guy to what I presumed was a new player, I chose to try to clear the mission at the same pace as he did, so he could also kill and actually play the game (instead of using my parkour knowledge to outrun him). He was very stealthy about his movements, so I also moved stealthily and slowly.

At the end of the mission, he actually pm'd me and thanked me for playing the game stealthily like he was (felt good man). But then I checked his loadout.

It was a volt.... with a Zhuge.

A Zhuge.

MR 1, with a Zhuge.

Like that just blew my mind.

I immediately checked Zhuge's MR requirement on the wiki, it's actually 0. Freaking 0. And this gun was released in one of the more recent patches (18.6). And the requirements? All you need is nitain (which, let's face it, anyone can acquire (especially new players, who are always running alerts of any type), just hop/taxi into a pub nitain alert and you'll get carried by everyone else trying to grab that alertium), two argon crystals (which again, none too difficult to snag from the void), And some Cryotic, which again, is a few simple trips to Lua, Earth. The blueprint is an easy pick up off the market. The requirements aren't something you're going to build instantly on day one, but the fact that I see a relatively new player, an MR 1 Volt, with a Zhuge? Personally, I'm thinking that resource limiting isn't really strong enough.

And like, the Zhuge itself, is a pretty good gun! High status(35%), high crit (20% and 2.0x, yes you can totally double dip status+crit with Hammershot), automatic and silent (also counts as a bow for bow-only sorties, and there are people who are picking up on this and using it as their main bow-sortie weapon), base DPS is pretty up there (boltor prime is like, 550 DPS, Zhuge is like 417 DPS, the Braton is 176 DPS when we compare base damage per shot*firerate), this gun is a huge leap in power, especially for a new player! And if that MR 1 volt (who I don't specifically remember, but I think was also running some other MK-1 weapons in the mission) can get a basically end-game weapon, I don't think resource locking is good enough.

This makes sense. I see why you reacted.

If the progression had infact required.this new player to actually use other weapons  first to be able to use the zhuge, that would have been better. 

I juat don't think Mastery is a good system because of the nonsense that is.

Oh great!  I maxed a double axe today.  I'll just go ahead and use those XP I gained from a melee-weapon, and buy myself a minigun.

That's how it feels to me. The system needs to change somehow. We don't know what game warframe would turn into if mastery was raised to 10-12 for good weapons.

[KBurn85]

I don't think it should be locked behind an MR, but instead, be locked behind a quest, or syndicate. Maybe have a special quests called "The Tonkor", where you have to buy the key from Baro with ducats, and take 10 mutalist alad v coordinates, 10 lephantis coordinates, and a million credits to craft. Make all missions nightmare, where you need to have 4 people in your squad to complete, as each tonkor part is locked behind a vault, which needs all 4 dragon keys to open.

That'll considerably raise the skill bar, as it emphasises skill, difficulty, teamwork, communication, coordination and organisation.

All raising the MR bar will do is increase the number of people on draco.

[(XBOX)DataStorm 8Bit]

22 hours ago, Tennonat said:

MR does equal skill, for most players at least.

They would be getting experience from the time of ranking up weapons

So am I a god for farming Draco for a week?

[ElCorintio]

Why some people are so worried about the MR of the neighbour?  Why they seem to bother when they see a low MR player with a big weapon?

Tonkor is fine where it is, and people is enjoying the weapon. What is the bad thing about that? It hurting you in some way? Is hurting the game in some way?

The answer is no, to those questions...

13 hours ago, ivlr3vil said:

A well modded Tonkor is on par with the Syndicate weapons which require a high MR. It would only make sense to make it MR12.

You said it man! A well modded Tonkor... A newbie will not had a "Well Modded Tonkor". Hell, even MR 8 or 10 players probably wouldn't had a well modded Tonkor



Remember kids, just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's bad (or has to be nerfed)

[arch111]

There is allso alot of posts about weapons praising a few and saying most are useless.

Can't blame them for trying to get those big numbers.

[-SW-Elexis]

6 hours ago, Obviousclone said:

I immediately checked Zhuge's MR requirement on the wiki, it's actually 0.

Now check Nikana Prime MR requirement. One of the best (if not the best) one-handed melee weapon in the game. 

Late MR requirements are just strange. Let's just delete all of them. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by ElexisEl

[Marvelous_A]

3 hours ago, ElCorintio said:

Why some people are so worried about the MR of the neighbour?  Why they seem to bother when they see a low MR player with a big weapon?

Tonkor is fine where it is, and people is enjoying the weapon. What is the bad thing about that? It hurting you in some way? Is hurting the game in some way?

The answer is no, to those questions...

You said it man! A well modded Tonkor... A newbie will not had a "Well Modded Tonkor". Hell, even MR 8 or 10 players probably wouldn't had a well modded Tonkor



Remember kids, just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's bad (or has to be nerfed)

Some people just don't want newbies to have fun IMO. Just like Excalibur which a lot of veterans whining about it being OP. I can't even see the problem of tonkor, it is not the so-called easy mode, do they even tried using a plain lv 30 tonkor in sorties? Tonkor is not powerful without a lot of investment e.g formas, potato, mods, people choose tonkor only because it is the most suitable weapon under most circumstances. At least tonkor is useful if you are willing to invest on it, while a lot of other weapons are not. Why would anybody even want to have MR lock? Only veterans will because they will not be affected anyway. I bet there will be veterans whining about newbies with weak weapons ruining their game experience if the suggestion of OP actually comes true. Some people just think they are superior to others because they spent more time on the game and don't want the others to have fun. Please just let all players do whatever the hell they want and enjoy their game.

 

If people don't want a metaweapon, they should make the other weapons actually useful for all players, but not keeping the good weapons only to themselves. But eventually there will always be a metaweapon because players always choose the easiest way to play a game, just like draco.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

that won't solve anything though, since the people who get locked out of using it can just level lots of gear on Draco and then get it back. and what will be done to compensate low MR's who invested in their Tonkor?

the MR system isn't great, but it's no use shifting requirements around until the way we actually attain MR is addressed first.
 

Edited April 19, 2016 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Currilicious]

54 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Some people just don't want newbies to have fun IMO.

Yeah and it's unfortunate.

They also seem to conveniently forget the minimum requirement is a potato and at least 3 Forma for Madurai mods and one for Naramon. The Madurai mods has to be at least be rank 8 to be effective and would require upwards of 500 R5 cores for that to happen. All of which is out of reach for most new players unless a sizeable Plat purchase is made. In a game that relies on Plat purchases to survive, I fail to see how limiting choices for lower ranked players would entice them to spend.

The sentiment of gating gear from lower ranked players is both a childish and unfair notion.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Currilicious