Teshin, Conclave, and the Pay to Win System

[kitsu]

*Disclaimer: I am in no way referring to paying real money in conclave, but the system of having to acquire mods in order to beat the competition, the has and the has not's.

So, earlier today, we had Teshin call for the tenno to join him in "honor" for the conclave. I think it is about time he is put in his place, the oh so great dishonorable warrior.

Conclave has a good concept, and a roughly good execution save for one critical flaw in the system, the mods. The very modding system in Conclave creates a huge disparity between those that have mods, and those that do not have mods. The only way to acquire mods is either through trade (plat most of the time) or struggle through conclave and buy mods OR struggle even more and not buy mods in order to rank up. This is the biggest flaw in conclave and honestly, kills true honor bound skill in favor for deceitful mod advantages.

What is even worse, some mods create gameplay that there is no counter play against such mods, like Relentless assault, Explosive demise and Martial fury. How can a player counter an exploding corpse, that does not hurt the one that created it, HOW!!

Is this what honor is Teshin, IS THIS WHAT YOU STAND BY?!!

To those that defend the current mod system in conclave, I call to you, fight in conclave without any mods, against those that use mods, tell me how it goes. As a matter of fact, let this be a call to ALL major conclave players, fight without mods, in order to give the proper feedback DE needs for PvP and to show Teshin TRUE HONOR!!!

I call upon other fellow tenno, those that rejected conclave to continue to do say, there is no honor in the conclave that Teshin boasts. Reject conclave, reject Teshin, reject the broken honor till true honor in conclave is restored! I pray that lunaro will not be filled with the same dishonor that plagues the PvP conclave.

 

**Serious note to DE and those that read this: DE, seriously, a gear system that allows advantages over those that do not have such things without paying money? It is a nicer version of pay to win. BUT is still a horrible system to have. Especially if there is no counter play against such systems. Mods in conclave is the very reason conclave is avoided like the plague, and I reached hurricane and just gave up due to the difference between those that have mods and those that do not. It is like dark sectors rail defense pvp all over again. Stop that. And please do not put the same mod system in lunaro, that be like giving players in rocket league advantages over those that do not have the same advantage.

TL:DR: Conclave is not about "git gud" skills but "get mods" deceit in order to get better and win.

[Xardis]

Conclave mods were a good system until weapon specific mods with stright upgrades. This was the mistake of normal mod system and it crawled in to PvP now. Retire all mods with only bonuses, only those that have an equal up and downside should be there.

[MadHatHacker]

Have you tried not standing on the exploding corpse?

[Thalahssalyst]

This is not a pay to win, did you play S4 League?
Normal weapons was +4 atack on stats... only that

with Cash: +3% speed/+5% atack/+3 sp/+100 hp/...

 

Now imagine something like that on warframe but just only for plat, but if you see on the trade, you can get plat without paying real money...


 

[JeyciKon]

I dont play conclave anymore, but let me tell you, conclave mods are not that beneficial at all,, only a few are actually directly beneficial like those you mentioned, and you can farm them just fine in a week...
many times i forgot to equip mods on conclave for hours without realising.
just 1v1 phase or someone on his skill level, he reks you without using any mods just fine.

[OverlordMcGeek]

I got 1 mod as a reward. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Measured_Burst

It is the only weapon I was going to use since the beginning anyway.

[EdBazokatone]

Leave the drama act you're not getting anywhere with that...

The problem is solved with a matchmaking system that works, like any serious pvp game out there, pair rookies with rookies and veterans with veterans, DONE.

See.. it's not that hard to think on solutions.

Edited April 22, 2016 by EdBazokatone

[clemza]

I can play without any conclave mods, it won't change anything, stop saying its a pay 2 win system, thats stupid ...

" Explosive demise " When you know that someone have it, just avoid being close to dead body, thats simple ...

[JeyciKon]

2 minutes ago, EdBazokatone said:

Leave the drama act you're not getting anywhere with that...

The problem is solved with a matchmaking system that works, like any serious pvp game out there, pair rookies with rookies and veterans with veterans, DONE.

See.. it's not that hard to think on solutions.

 

2 minutes ago, clemza said:

I can play without any conclave mods, it won't change anything, stop saying its a pay 2 win system, thats stupid ...

" Explosive demise " When you know that someone have it, just avoid being close to dead body, thats simple ...

^^^ this guys know whats up...

[MadHatHacker]

Real talk, though, I don't know why you have an issue with this instead of something like Waltz. 

Due to the way attack speed multipliers work and the fact that the attack speed needs to be procced with melee in the first place, Martial Fury effectively gives one free melee hit for every five strikes.

Relentless Assault does in fact have downsides and while blocking is criminally underused in Conclave, it's still a valuable tool that's getting gimped by the mod you're using. 

As for Explosive Demise, you literally have five seconds to move off the damn body before anything bad happens. None of these are terribly overpowered or even remotely gamebreaking.

[Genitive]

Having mods as rewards is only expectable. Some kind of progression is required and mods give you the feeling that you are getting stronger. Besides, it's not like they give huge advantages; it mostly boils down to a frame and a weapon you choose, and your own skill. Gaps between players' skills in Conclave can be huge. Mods are not game changers in this case.

What is more, as you stated, you need to progress through Conclave to obtain stuff. It's not pay to win.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

I can never know if troll or stupid whenever i read things like pay to win in warframe...

[blazekan5]

1. Why would you stand on someone after they are dead?

2. I fight without mods and I can pretty much get first place all the time.

 

Also it's not p2w because you can get them from doing normal conclave..

Edit: Not trying to attack op but if you want to op, 1v1 me in pvp, you have the "mods that will make you win" and I'll equip nothing.

Edited April 22, 2016 by blazekan5

[Maicael]

IIRC, the "Recruit Matchmaking" option in the lower right (maybe if only a low rank in Conclave) disables any Rare mods equipped in the match.

[Nazrethim]

You mentioned only melee mods, actually the only GOOD melee mods. That's kind of a bias, don't ya think?

Now, I'm a full time melee player and I can tell you this:

Explosive Demise: yeah, it deals either too much damage or has no warning, nerfing damage by 100 or keeping the damage and giving a very clear warning would solve it.

Martial Fury: Used to be fine, reducing block and passively increasing attack speed, then it was made into a sh*tty 3s buff, then it was buffed into a sh*tty 20s buff, I say sh*tty because you need to hit someone to make it kick, which means you have to use a slow arse weapon to hit a godam rabbit with a jetpack to get the attack speed you need to have any sort of reasonable mobility (more attack speed equals less animation lock).

Relentless Assault: yeah, this one should last 20s because 10 only works in those rare ocassions everyone decides to use the same closed room to smack each other in the head. Or have an entirely different effect or a Defensive counterpart mod like "on kill: regain health" or something.

Sword Alone: this one gives a straigh upgrade. +0.1 mobility. Seems that you are right, until you factor in that SA requires you to equip your melee weapon which right now is a HUGE handicap because ALL maps are tailored to parkour 2.0 and guess what? melee combat isn't, so you are stuck on the ground absorbing gunfire or you are flying while trying to hit other flyers with a hilariously weak attack that doesn't even knock'em down for a second so you could get a few hits in.

Straight upgrades: ALL gunmods.

Now, Conclave isn't "pay to win", most mods you get from standing or end of match are sidegrades and there is recruit conditioning to prevent new players from being matched with veterans. Conclave is all about hard work and dedication. Master your weapons, master your frames, master mobility.

[Weidro]

the only pay to win i see in the entire game is actualy in conclave

but its not mods

its skins

by using a skin thats designed for a normal weapon on a primed weapon u get an advantage thats only available for money

wich is the definition of pay do win (paying money to get an advantage over other ppl that are not paying)

the skin will not only change the way the weapon looks but it will although change the sound wich makes it impossible for ur enemys to recognize what weapon ur using (yes u can see it at the beginning but u can change loadouts while the game is running and then u cant see or hear it anymore)

i know its only a small advantage but it dose make a difference if ur enemy is using a vectis or a vectis prime and misses the first shot

in one case u can safely aproach but in the other u need to worry about the second shot

[JeyciKon]

8 minutes ago, Weidro said:

by using a skin thats designed for a normal weapon on a primed weapon u get an advantage thats only available for money

wich is the definition of pay do win (paying money to get an advantage over other ppl that are not paying)

the skin will not only change the way the weapon looks but it will although change the sound wich makes it impossible for ur enemys to recognize what weapon ur using (yes u can see it at the beginning but u can change loadouts while the game is running and then u cant see or hear it anymore)

no-one will lose against you just because they think you are using the vanilla version.

[Genitive]

3 minutes ago, Weidro said:

the only pay to win i see in the entire game is actualy in conclave

but its not mods

its skins

by using a skin thats designed for a normal weapon on a primed weapon u get an advantage thats only available for money

The skins give you little to no advantage because primed weapons do not necessarily have to be better than their non-prime counterparts. Differences between primes and non-primes in conclave are minimal. And you're not going to ponder whether the other Tenno has a Braton or Braton Prime - you will be focused on actually dodging the fire.

 

If the skins altered the stats, that would be a different thing. But they don't.

 

2 minutes ago, JeyciKon said:

no-one will lose against you just because they think you are using the vanilla version.

^

[Kontrollo]

Yes, some mods give some minor upgrades, but they're for weapons that are otherwise in an awkward spot balance-wise. If you don't have any of those mods yet, just use a weapon that doesn't even have one.

Also, stay in recruit conditioning until you've gathered some of the mission-reward mods, because the rare ones are restricted and only once you're above Conclave rank 2 will you be able to use those.

 

This is so far from pay-to-win, I think that title is just flamebait.