We need to have a talk about weapon exclusivity.

[Thodor1s]

And by that I mean... Some weapons are clearly more exclusive than others. Here is the state of exclusivity in the game at this point, at least how I see it:

• Tier 1 Exclusivity.

Founder stuff, like Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime and Lato Prime.
You should not expect to get those if you don't have them already, and even if they make it available again, I can only expect that you would have to pay for them, and not simply be able to farm them.

• Tier 2 Exclusivity.

The Braton and the Lato Vandal. These are weapons that were given in a short window to players during the transition from closed to open beta. Some may say that these weapons are in T1, as if, we will never be able to get them ever again. I personally dispute that. I think they will either be given as the game launches or as normal vandal weapons at some point through sorties.

• Tier 3 Exclusivity

Other Vandal or Wraith stuff, that were distributed during events. Essentially the sortie system made those timed exclusives, basically they are tradeable through plat, and Baro often has them in his kiosk. Maybe Prisma weapons belong here as well, since they too are tradeable and "timed exclusives".

• Tier 4 Exclusivity

Vault stuff, Every weapon that you could farm for long periods and still trade but you can't get no more in the void itself.

Essentially all weapons that you can't farm wherever you want could be considered exclusive to an extent. And this is where I start, not whining, but being displeased with something. There is a problem with the very existence of exclusive content in a game whose CORE ENGAGEMENT is to collect and master all of the stuff. I do understand that Warframe is a free to play game that needs to make money. And some exclusivity does make for interesting scenarios and events. But there will come a point (And arguably it's already here) when ALL, and I do mean ALL of the core players of the game miss the same weapons, and the game just stops being fun at this point. Tier 1 and 2 exclusivity are especially damaging. A new player can start a Warframre account, play more hours than I have, become a better player in every way, spend more money in the game, get all the weapons, and I still would have Excalibur Prime. A useful piece of equipment that he can never get, no matter what.

I don't know how this is going to be fixed, but I personally don't think that bragging about exclusive content to others is part of the engagement of the game. I wouldn't mind seeing Excalibur Prime drop. I know players who DESERVE Exc Prime more than I do! And I think the majority of players agrees with me.

So here are some things that should change imo. 

• Give Founder Packages to the players at the top of the leaderboards that don't have them, already, or make competitive events with Founder packs as a reward for the absolute best players! (possibly in this new Lunaro sports whatever mode)
• Give Baro a proper place when he can sell all of his Prisma stuff all the time, AT RIDICULOUS PRICES, and have him provide discounts to certain equipment every 2 weeks.
• Remove Nezha from the Sortie table and have at least 2 weapons every time like you did in the beginning! This was much more viable, and downright admirable! Why do you have to take 2 steps backwards for every step forward with this stuff? 

The TL;DR, is this: In a game ABOUT mastery, everything that gives you mastery, should be obtainable by everyone who puts the time and effort into obtaining it.
If you want exclusive stuff in the game, TAKE AWAY THEIR MASTERY!

And I don't even think giving us these things would hurt the bottom line of the company, Why? Because DE isn't even monetizing on those. They just exist, for no reason. Do you want more money? Make more alternative skins! Put them out faster! Multiples for each frame! Seeing how I and literally every high end player I know only buy cosmetics at this point, I think this is probably by far the best way for DE to make more money.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Thodor1s

[BlackCoMerc]

With respect to Founders: do we really want ANYTHING to ever be exclusive to a small group on a permanent basis? I am certain Founders enjoy Excalibur Prime. And I can certainly live without one and not be upset. These folks were Founders and received a reward for their loyalty; fair enough.

On the other hand, I also have a Karak Wraith I enjoy using now and then. Got it because I participated, start to finish, in an Event. I also have, via a gift from a clan leader, an Arcane Helmet for Rhino. It grants me a speed increase at the cost of power strength and is no longer available. Anywhere.

Would I be upset or hurt if either of these exclusive, right-place, right-time items were made available again, in a very reasonable manner, to newer players? Absolutely not. In fact I would love for more players to enjoy Arcane Helmets; seriously, let's bring those alerts back. Likewise, make the Wraith and Vandal weapons available again. Wouldn't HURT me, but it might add enjoyment for others and I am all for that.

So why stop there? Puncture mods; Arcane Helmets; early primes. Vandal and Wraith items. Throw em all back on loot tables. Let's let everyone enjoy all the game has to offer.

After all, it's not as if you have to take an item away from a veteran player to give it to someone else.

[Stormdragon]

Even tough I like the idea, I think content offered as "paid exclusive" should remain like that, otgerwise this would be a slap on the face to players buying under the promise of exclusivity. Said that, breaking the 1 time exclusivity promise of founders pack would only make people start thinking twice before buying exclusive content or supporting DE. On one hand it might mean a lot of money for them, but also a big loss of trust from part of the playerbase.

About making content available through leaderboards, I think it's a bad idea given that locks players who can't grind 24/7 from it (the event where primed chamber was awarded had a lot of negative feedback because of this) 

Finally, I see no reason to not bring back any kind of free content (other than devs decision) be it mods, weapons or whatever, so I'd love seeing the free exclusives coming back to everyone (primed chamber, lato vandal, braton vandal, ips event mods, etc)

Edited April 24, 2016 by -----LegioN-----

[GinKenshin]

well, I see no use of excalibur prime other than his prime effect with the orokin laser orbs. other than that, he doesn't looks THAT good, he's not changed state-wise, so to me he's pretty much non-essential 

I really don't think that 30k+ of mastery would make such a difference though

we could receive the tier 2 and below items that you stated in the way you suggested, but paid-exclusive items should remain that way 

what I think about all of the exclusive prime stuff is like this: 

a friend of yours (as in DE) wants money to pay off a debt, or else he'll be killed (XD), and tells you to lend them some money, so you agree and give them the money, and your reward for this is that you get to enjoy his friendship and company (the exclusive primes) 

but when I come in and become friends with your friend (with DE), and I hear the story about the debt..etc, I would help him, but I can't, it's a done deal.....that's basically how people should imagine it 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Kenshin98

[BlackCoMerc]

OK, yeah: if it was a real money, cash exclusive before, don't bring it back as a grind to unlock (free) item. That IS insulting, possibly worse if it was previously marketed as exclusive to boot. So yeah, if they had to buy it then, we have to buy it now or not at all.

But in game stuff? Yeah, bring it all back.

[Kai_Shiba]

Founder items, Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal will never be made available again. Period.

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by KJRenz

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, KJRenz said:

Founder items, Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal will never be made available again. Period.

 

I am okay with this myself. But why? 

We're these part of a paid exclusive patch? If so, I understand completely. You paid money based on buy it now or never get it.

But if they were free gifts, or in game grinds...why not allow others to share the enjoyment? 

Just curious.

[Thodor1s]

1 hour ago, KJRenz said:

Founder items, Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal will never be made available again. Period.

I am ok with this, so long as these items loos all additional effects - advantages - stat variations and mastery.

Or if those items get rereleased with different models, and be made available to all players, Then DE should give the older owners the exclusive legacy skins.

In both situations veterans keep their bragging rights, but the game is more fair for everyone!

Edited April 24, 2016 by Thodor1s

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I kinda disagree with the notion that everyone needs to be able to get every single item this game ever offered, especially stuff like founder exclusive content.

I get that Mastery Rank is the endgame, and that most people want to get a "full" collection. But can't people just settle with the "I have every single item that I could possibly have in my collection since I wasn't there from the start and I missed a couple of discontinued items "... Heck, the codec pages usually don't even include rare/discontinued weapons , so you don't even get teased with stuff you'll never be able to get anyway... So it's not such a big deal. I'd say if you have the highest MR rank and your profile says to have all weapons maxed, live with it and don't worry about rare stuff you might have missed.

Then there's the fact that asides from a very short window of time when a new MR rank is introduced, a player with all weapons and a player with a few weapons missing have the same MR rank anyway ... If Founders had MR 22 and everyone else had MR21, it could be seen as unfair, but for the most part, it's a non issue, since on paper, both players have the same MR anyway.

I think DE has been doing good lately, bringing most of the Event mods to Baro, expanding his inventory to make it easeyer for noobs to catch up on his bi-weekely drops, and bringing back most of the event weapons as sortie rewards. They are already working on making newer players able to catch up imho, which is a great thing.

Honestly, right now on PS4, I'm basically missing only War (Bad RNG is bad), Detron (Zanuka is a myth), Machete Wraith (It'll be in sorties soon, and baro has it from time to time), Prisma Shade (Only a matter of time till baro gets it again I hope), the founder items (But they don't exist on PS4 anways, so it's not like I care), Snipetron Vandal (Coming Soon to Sorties) and the only weapon which I consider should be avialable somewhere else, the Regular Snipetron... As you can see, asides from Snipetron and the Founder Package, I have a chance to get all of these weapons eventually (They even added Beacons to make farming War and Detron easyer)... So yes, DE is doing great in making sure that players can catch up on their collection and attempt to complete them eventually. In due time, I'll have a full collection of attainable stuff, minus the founder exclusive, and I'm fine with this... I'll be playing excalibur umbra by then anyway (one can hope)...

My only gripe is the Snipetron , since it was retired before I had the chance to build and mastery rank it , and I somehow missed the small window of opportunity where it was given as login to people as a way to make up with the fact they removed it without warning. I have friends who have it , and I feel like it should be avialable from Baro or something, or given as an alert/reward of some kind... It's especually stupid that it was removed because it wasn't coherent from a lore perspective (it didn't fire lazers)... Just change the bullet to lasers and put it back in the market and be done with it already... Granted, the lanka is it's replacement, but considering the Snipetron Vandal is a thing, why isn't the Regular Snipetron brought back, that's really stupid !!!

Arcane Helmets though... I can see how a new player could be pissed about those. Personally ,I have all of them except the backdraft ember one, which I actually had , but ended up selling to a clanmate that was desperate and was offering like 400 plat for it... But I can see how I'm defintively not one in a position to complain about them being retired and me missing out on these.

Edited April 24, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Kai_Shiba]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I am okay with this myself. But why? 

We're these part of a paid exclusive patch? If so, I understand completely. You paid money based on buy it now or never get it.

But if they were free gifts, or in game grinds...why not allow others to share the enjoyment? 

Just curious.

Because of course, founders was a way to support the game after you paid in a sort of donation for goodies.

Braton Vandal and Lato vandal are rewards for those who have been there from closed beta.

[Troll_Logic]

5 hours ago, Thodor1s said:

The TL;DR, is this: In a game ABOUT mastery, everything that gives you mastery, should be obtainable by everyone who puts the time and effort into obtaining it.

Nope.  Exclusivity is a badge for players who have been here.  It is used to differentiate the MR21 player who has been here from the beginning, or close to it, from the MR21 player who has been here a year and has been getting power-level by his friends.

[BlackCoMerc]

6 minutes ago, KJRenz said:

Because of course, founders was a way to support the game after you paid in a sort of donation for goodies.

Braton Vandal and Lato vandal are rewards for those who have been there from closed beta.

Makes sense. Certainly don't think it's fair to bring these back. They were part of a paid package and promised as exclusive rewards in exchange for real money.

[Troll_Logic]

4 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

With respect to Founders: do we really want ANYTHING to ever be exclusive to a small group on a permanent basis?

YES.  I'm not a founder but they paid REAL money before the game was finished.  They risked real money.  They deserve some reward for funding this. 

[Thodor1s]

44 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

YES.  I'm not a founder but they paid REAL money before the game was finished.  They risked real money.  They deserve some reward for funding this. 

As a founder I couldn't dissagree more. I paid money for DE to make what was then a very miniscule game into the game I enjoy today. Not for the goodies. The goodies are meaningless without content.

[MagPrime]

Best way to avoid Founder and non Founder drama, just give everyone starting affinity that's comparable to the Founders fear.

 No need to release the package.

As to the other exclusive items, DE may not make money on those items directly, but by putting them on a time table, players will stick around and spend money on other things while they wait.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Noamuth
Screw you auto correct.

[LordOfScrugging]

6 hours ago, Thodor1s said:

So here are some things that should change imo. 

• Give Founder Packages to the players at the top of the leaderboards that don't have them, already, or make competitive events with Founder packs as a reward for the absolute best players! (possibly in this new Lunaro sports whatever mode)

I read all of it but as soon as i hit this part you lost all credibility in my eyes. "Hey you're good at an irrelevant side portion of the game? have this thing that was a gift to loyal players and early backers of the game for free. f*ck them, right?"

[Troll_Logic]

16 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Best way to avoid Founder and non Founder drama, just give everyone starting affinity that's comparable to the Founders fear.

That's silly.  "We're just going to give you XPfor doing nothing but arriving here late."

No.

[Drag0nChaser]

Its fine as it is, what i DONT like... is the pricing on Prime access accesoiry........ basicly 150 euros or 50 euros for 2 accesoiries only -__-. THe accesoiries should be in the 50 euro pack by default. I got frost pack for 50 euros cuzz it had the accesoiries in it, felt justified.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Drag0nChaser

[.Dictator.]

7 minutes ago, LordOfScrugging said:

I read all of it but as soon as i hit this part you lost all credibility in my eyes. "Hey you're good at an irrelevant side portion of the game? have this thing that was a gift to loyal players and early backers of the game for free. f*ck them, right?"

Precisely, founder's items should never return, when they bought one out of the 4 packages, It was to help a game they enjoyed, not to get the item, back then they're was literally nothing in the game, we had like one map, and etc. and etc. Giving these packs back would be a massive Middle finger to founders everywhere...I can attest to that

(Ignore that my profile says i joined in 2015, my original account was banned)

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by DictatorKt07

[MagPrime]

Just now, Troll_Logic said:

That's silly.  "We're just going to give you XPfor doing nothing but arriving here late."

No.

How is that silly?  It defuses the argument that the Founders gear is either pay to win or unfair due to the minor affinity boost.

It benefits everyone and reduces the tension between the haves and have nots.  Its a viable middle ground.

[NoeleVeerod]

4 hours ago, KJRenz said:

Founder items, Braton Vandal and Lato Vandal will never be made available again. Period.

 

This.

[Troll_Logic]

Just now, Noamuth said:

How is that silly?  It defuses the argument that the Founders gear is either pay to win or unfair due to the minor affinity boost.

It benefits everyone and reduces the tension between the haves and have nots.  Its a viable middle ground.

There is no argument other than "I WANT what other people paid for years ago."

THAT'S the argument.  And it fallacious one.

[.Dictator.]

4 minutes ago, LordOfScrugging said:

I read all of it but as soon as i hit this part you lost all credibility in my eyes. "Hey you're good at an irrelevant side portion of the game? have this thing that was a gift to loyal players and early backers of the game for free. f*ck them, right?"

Precisely, founder's items should never return, when they bought one out of the 4 packages, It was to help a game they enjoyed, not to get the item, back then they're was literally nothing in the game, we had like one map, and etc. and etc. Giving these packs back would be a massive Middle finger to founders everywhere...

[Datsher]

6 hours ago, Thodor1s said:

The TL;DR, is this: In a game ABOUT mastery, everything that gives you mastery, should be obtainable by everyone who puts the time and effort into obtaining it.
If you want exclusive stuff in the game, TAKE AWAY THEIR MASTERY!
 

I don't give half a S#&$ about mastery, maybe when it actually means something but not in this state. But giving away everything once obtainable because newer players weren't able to get it is bullS#&$. So what if you are MR21 (not you op, this is generalized)? It doesn't mean anything, you could've been here for 3 months and have been powerleveled all of your friends. So what if you can't have everything and not have a "full collection"? Codex doesn't show it anyway. Additionally, exclusive items don't have gamebreaking buffs, so having them stay exclusive isn't putting anyone to a disadvantage.

Exclusive items should be like a landmark that says "I was here for x event when it happened back in the day" not "I got it from a sortie". Just as founders should say "I helped DE when they needed us most". If DE just releases a skin for event weapons for the players actually participating in the event, I am fine with that. But re releasing founders would be unacceptable because DE would back up from their promise to never release it again just for profit / because enough people cried about it.

[MagPrime]

Just now, Troll_Logic said:

There is no argument other than "I WANT what other people paid for years ago."

THAT'S the argument.  And it fallacious one.

Based on personal experience in other threads, I have to disagree.  It was argued many times that the affinity boost is pay to win because no one else could obtain that amount of affinity.

"I want it" hasn't always been the reason to request a release to the Founders package.

But again, how is providing the affinity to non Founders silly?  Its still a viable middle ground for a lot of players.