DE Can We Get An Augment Slot Now ?

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

Augments are a choice, not a requirement. If you want the augment, then be prepared to give something up... It's why you have multiple loadouts. (meta)

you can say the same thing about utility mods, "utility mods are a choice not a requirement." & look now we have the exilus slot.

[Rakosta_Kai]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

you can say the same thing about utility mods, "utility mods are a choice not a requirement." & look now we have the exilus slot.

Actually... I already did.

3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

All that said, I would be cool with the idea of allowing an augment to fit in the exilus slot as you would have to have the slot and also sacrifice the exilus benefits to fit an augment there.

The Exilus slot was added for Parkour 2.0 and they(DE) diversified its' use.

Adding augments to it would be a balanced trade-off as the slot has to be acquired and you lose the extra movement skill by putting an augment in it.

 

The point you are trying to make isn't cause for an extra slot, it's cause for further diversifying the exilus slot.

[ashrah]

2 augment slot... all frames need

[VoidNomade]

Saying that the system now is fine because you can literally use vanilla builds is completely ignoring the state of the art of the game right now. We are shifting to an "harder" content with sorties, raids, new enemies/bosses and we are shifting to the revolutionary idea of using all your frames skills instead of skilling just one-two while we are also given more and more tools, moon/exclusive other mods, exilus slot, focus powers, arcanas, weapons, pets, warframes and tweaks for older warframes so it would only be logical to gain more tools with our skills.

"Skill" brings me to the next point; this "more power for free": That is a problem of the augment design not of the system in itself but in the same time it´s quite a narrow minded and thus funny view on WarframeTM with all the additions in the powerhouse department lately because we are given power all day for "free" with literally no trade-off.

This "trade off is a must in warframe" is such an outdated and somehow untrue statement lately in my opinion.

Besides your look on the augment system that it should be treated as a mod system is the same mistake that DE is doing.

It isn´t about min max 1-2 skills, it should be about giving the player more tools to alter their complete skillset and play style even way more than it was possible in vanilla.

 

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Augments are a choice, not a requirement.

This is were you are kinda wrong the longer the augment system is in action. EV Trin, disarm/stealth loki as easy examples for builds where augments are indeed a requirement.

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Folks seem to overlook that what DE intends to be the meta is the meta. 

Wearing blinders doesn´t change reality. A good new example for this was Rathuum with Valk/Ash. Or was it DE choice to make this event for literally only those two frames? (honourable exceptions proves the rule)
I think Nope, players just adapted and made their own "how this is played" like with literally every content, they didn´t even cared about DEs intention. It´s more like DE adapt to what the players are doing most times than vice versa.

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by VoidNomade

[Rakosta_Kai]

43 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

Saying that the system now is fine because you can literally use vanilla builds is completely ignoring the state of the art of the game right now. We are shifting to an "harder" content with sorties, raids, new enemies/bosses and we are shifting to the revolutionary idea of using all your frames skills instead of skilling just one-two while we are also given more and more tools, moon/exclusive other mods, exilus slot, focus powers, arcanas, weapons, pets, warframes and tweaks for older warframes so it would only be logical to gain more tools with our skills.

"Skill" brings me to the next point; this "more power for free": That is a problem of the augment design not of the system in itself but in the same time it´s quite a narrow minded and thus funny view on WarframeTM with all the additions in the powerhouse department lately because we are given power all day for "free" with literally no trade-off.

This "trade off is a must in warframe" is such an outdated and somehow untrue statement lately in my opinion.

Besides your look on the augment system that it should be treated as a mod system is the same mistake that DE is doing.

It isn´t about min max 1-2 skills, it should be about giving the player more tools to alter their complete skillset and play style even way more than it was possible in vanilla.

So, DE needs to balance the game in accordance with your vision as opposed to their own?

...OK.

We don't really need to wonder at who actually has those blinders on now.

46 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

It isn´t about min max 1-2 skills, it should be about giving the player more tools to alter their complete skillset and play style even way more than it was possible in vanilla.

Why do the think the old system got changed?

48 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

This is were you are kinda wrong the longer the augment system is in action. EV Trin, disarm/stealth loki as easy examples for builds where augments are indeed a requirement.

 

A requirement for what exactly?

Augments are an option... That's it.

...If they weren't an option, the function would likely have been baked into the skill itself.

There are definitely some augments that should have been part of the base skill... But DE appears to have decided against that because they aren't required.

Folks keep using this word (required)... It doesn't mean what y'all think it does.

49 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

Wearing blinders doesn´t change reality. A good new example for this was Rathuum with Valk/Ash. Or was it DE choice to make this event for literally only those two frames? (honourable exceptions proves the rule)
I think Nope, players just adapted and made their own "how this is played" like with literally every content, they didn´t even cared about DEs intention. It´s more like DE adapt to what the players are doing most times than vice versa.

 

You don't think DE determines what the "meta" is ?

...OK.

There are literally too many instances where they have happily broken your little metas to suit their own vision to count.

Every nerf and buff that has been done in this game is tuned to suit their meta.

I'd suggest you take your own advice about blinders.  Exceptions don't prove the rule... They fall outside it by definition.

The devs have already come into the forums and cited Rathuum as a WIP...  Do you really think when it's fully implemented, it won't get tuned over time?

....OK.

We can argue this point until you are blue in the face... That's fine, have a party.

You will not convince me that the game needs what you are asking for because you can not convince me of same.

I don't find hyperbole and conflation compelling.

Fortunately, I am not the party you need to convince... So you should stop trying.

[VoidNomade]

Just now, Padre_Akais said:

You will not convince me that the game needs what you are asking for because you can not convince me of same.

Why you even care to replay than.

[Eldnacpeek]

22 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Seeing how 4 frames now have all 4 of there augments

 

Three frames do, not four.

[VoidNomade]

18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

So, DE needs to balance the game in accordance with your vision as opposed to their own?

...OK.

We don't really need to wonder at who actually has those blinders on now.

Oh no DE is changing their view on something because of the community?! Such shocking news!

And with blinders DE was meant.

18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Why do the think the old system got changed?

Why do you say than that everything is fine now when in my opinion this augment system now is clearly only the first step into something more?

18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

A requirement for what exactly?

Augments are an option... That's it.

...If they weren't an option, the function would likely have been baked into the skill itself.

There are definitely some augments that should have been part of the base skill... But DE appears to have decided against that because they aren't required.

Folks keep using this word (required)... It doesn't mean what y'all think it does.

Why do YOU ask me what YOU mean with requirement? YOU started! to using this term with out giving a proper sense behind it.

 

18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

You don't think DE determines what the "meta" is ?

...OK.

There are literally too many instances where they have happily broken your little metas to suit their own vision to count.

Every nerf and buff that has been done in this game is tuned to suit their meta.

I'd suggest you take your own advice about blinders.  Exceptions don't prove the rule... They fall outside it by definition.

The devs have already come into the forums and cited Rathuum as a WIP...  Do you really think when it's fully implemented, it won't get tuned over time?

....OK.

We can argue this point until you are blue in the face... That's fine, have a party.

You will not convince me that the game needs what you are asking for because you can not convince me of same.

I don't find hyperbole and conflation compelling.

Fortunately, I am not the party you need to convince... So you should stop trying.

You really think that when DE is releasing content and mechanics in quick fashion they have ultimate control and foresight how their things play out? Do you really think that how players are playing the game and voicing their ideas, concerns and game play has no effect on "their meta"?

We will see in time who was right. And i don´t think the system right now will stay as it is now, as you want it to be.

Edited May 12, 2016 by VoidNomade

[Rakosta_Kai]

15 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

Why you even care to replay than.

Because you keep posting "your vision" as opposed to "the facts" as a retort to me.

You have your opinion.

I have mine.

The difference is that mine is based on what is and has consistently been which is also consistent with what the devs have already said their vision is.

Yours is based on what you want it to be.

...And that's cool. 

I am going to respect your opinion even though I disagree with it... You need to respect mine.

They don't have to agree.

 

News Flash

You just posted another reply.

19 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

Oh no DE is changing their view on something because of the community?! Such shocking news!

And with blinders DE was meant.

DE hasn't changed their view on adding an augment slot, you just want them to.

20 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

Why do you say than that everything is fine now when in my opinion this augment system now is clearly only the first step into something more?

Because I don't agree with your opinion. You didn't pick up on that with my first post?

25 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

Why do YOU ask me what YOU mean with requirement? YOU started! to using this term with out giving a proper sense behind it.

I'm not asking you what requirement means. I already know what it means.

You, however, need to look it up if you are going to keep using it. (No disrespect intended if English isn't your first language)

21 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

You really think that when DE is releasing content and mechanics in quick fashion they have ultimate control and foresight how their things play out? Do you really think that how players are playing the game and voicing their ideas, concerns and game play has no effect on "their meta"?

No to the first and yes to the second... But I haven't said otherwise in any of my posts. 

26 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

Ridiculous.

I tend to agree you should take a deep breath and relax. It's not a fight. 

[Cat_Jam]

Augments should cost/give 0 mod points and change an ability in a positive and negative way, like higher energy consumption or something...

[SenorClipClop]

22 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Seeing how 4 frames now have all 4 of there augments , I think it's about time .

How do you feel about a single augment slot ? Needed or unessacary

Gotta go with nope.

You get eight slots. And one more. And okay, another one. Ten. You get ten slots. But the last two can only be for an aura and a utility.

If you really want the augment on, you gotta give something up from your current build. I like this. Since augments basically make their given ability better, giving us the ability to put on the augments for free would just make every frame more powerful as long as you have the mod. And then many may never use the vanilla version of the ability, the augment becoming the new standard. Make different builds, not just bigger ones.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

3 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

 

Three frames do, not four.

Ash 

Banshee

Oberon

Chroma .. Oh wait 

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

Ash 

Banshee

Oberon

Chroma .. Oh wait 

 

Exactly. Until we see an Effigy augment that makes it follow you like a Sentinel (because it unfortunately has to be an augment to be "useful"), Ash, Oberon, and Banshee are so far the only frames with a full set of augments.

Edited May 13, 2016 by LazerSkink

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

14 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

The dilemma you are facing is intended.

I'm not so sure. The power creep issue is often brought up, but DE obviously doesn't think it's that big a deal. Zenurik's energy regen is as effective as all other forms of passive energy regen combined. Even x4 Energy Siphon + rift only gets you 4.4 energy per second. Also, in the same way that one says "D¡ck Cheney", I believe all I have to say is: "Naramon". Frankly, the power creep argument isn't even valid. No matter how many slots they add, you're still limited by capacity. Even with a Zenurik aug slot, nearly every one of my builds would need another forma. It's not like you can forma every slot, unless you want to lock yourself into a single build for every frame.

I continually see the issue brought up here and on reddit. The complaint is that augments in their current implementation, which take up capacity and slots, should be substantial utility/power boosts; not bandaids for the mechanical or aesthetic faults of an ability. I've said it before, but as long as game balance isn't being seriously jeopardized, fun factor trumps all other arguments. When having even two augments makes any frame ten times more interesting to play... maybe it's time DE looked back at the decision to convert ability mods into innate functions of the frames. Obviously, I'm not suggesting they reapply that exact method here. I understand the sensitivity of this subject.

The most radical suggestion I've seen is to make augments unlocks that can be toggled on/off from the Abilities screen at a capacity cost of 6 per active aug. I'm kinda onboard with this idea. It enables more freedom and build possibilities (and more importantly fun), but preserves the current balance of augs vs core stats with a slight shift in favor of augs.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Yes. In the words of Bender.

 

LETS GO ALREADDDDDYYYYY!!! 

[Sparklelord]

I think I would prefer an entirely different solution.

Just as DE seems to intend to remove the "required" mods from weapons (Serration etc.), then the "required" mods should be removed from Warframes (and companions, archwings etc.).

Have a level scaling system for shields and health that is of equal strength to maxed Vitality and Reflection.

That opens up slots and the player can then choose to Mod for faster shields, better powers, more energy and so on. In short, the player will be able to specialize his Warframe to his desired playstyle instead of just putting in Mods necessary to take on content.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Sparklelord
Correction of thoughts

[DiosGX]

I remember how sad I was upon finding out you couldn't put augments in the exilus slot. I'd be fine with just that.

[Hypernaut1]

3 hours ago, Sparklelord said:

I think I would prefer an entirely different solution.

Just as DE seems to intend to remove the "required" mods from weapons (Serration etc.), then the "required" mods should be removed from Warframes (and companions, archwings etc.).

Have a level scaling system for shields and health that is of equal strength to maxed Vitality and Reflection.

That opens up slots and the player can then choose to Mod for faster shields, better powers, more energy and so on. In short, the player will be able to specialize his Warframe to his desired playstyle instead of just putting in Mods necessary to take on content.

I don't think WFs have "required" mods. I definitely dont use vitality and redirection in every build. I dont always use fleeting, I dont always add power strength or use flow. All of my builds are quite varied, although I do tend to mod more for energy efficiency than anything else. Personally,  i don't think its that hard to add 1 or 2 augments to a build. Some of you act as if stock values are terrible, they arent. You would be surprised how good and viable a stock WF is without mods.

When i start modding a WF, I start with 1 defensive mod and 1 efficiency mod first. After that its all about balancing corrupted mods if I want or adding utility. I think we have more than enough slots. 

A WF with a max redirection or Vitality and streamline is a great starting point and can hang with most content if you have properly modded weapons. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[k1sam3]

On the topic, yeah, should be good to add 1 more slot for augment only, cuz that will surely make players put more formas on their frames, so one way or another this will not be that easy to put an augment there, also it would be harder if exilus mods cannot be put in regular mod slots as regular mods cannot be put in exilus one and same with new augment slot if there is such. So if that happens then surely everyone will need from 4 to 6 formas to max everything and it will change one way or another the way we are building our mod arsenal.

Edited May 13, 2016 by k1sam3

[Rakosta_Kai]

6 hours ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

I'm not so sure. The power creep issue is often brought up, but DE obviously doesn't think it's that big a deal. Zenurik's energy regen is as effective as all other forms of passive energy regen combined. Even x4 Energy Siphon + rift only gets you 4.4 energy per second. Also, in the same way that one says "D¡ck Cheney", I believe all I have to say is: "Naramon". Frankly, the power creep argument isn't even valid. No matter how many slots they add, you're still limited by capacity. Even with a Zenurik aug slot, nearly every one of my builds would need another forma. It's not like you can forma every slot, unless you want to lock yourself into a single build for every frame.

I continually see the issue brought up here and on reddit. The complaint is that augments in their current implementation, which take up capacity and slots, should be substantial utility/power boosts; not bandaids for the mechanical or aesthetic faults of an ability. I've said it before, but as long as game balance isn't being seriously jeopardized, fun factor trumps all other arguments. When having even two augments makes any frame ten times more interesting to play... maybe it's time DE looked back at the decision to convert ability mods into innate functions of the frames. Obviously, I'm not suggesting they reapply that exact method here. I understand the sensitivity of this subject.

I think it's intended as it is in keeping with their design philosophy of trade-offs, but I get where you are going with that line of thinking.

For my part, I don't even look at it from a standpoint of power creep so much, tbh. DE has said, and appears, to want to ensure that mod choices are meaningful so something typically has to be sacrificed in a build unless you build vanilla (and sometimes even if you do).

When we start talking about the looting mods, I don't expect them to make them easy to build around.

6 hours ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

The most radical suggestion I've seen is to make augments unlocks that can be toggled on/off from the Abilities screen at a capacity cost of 6 per active aug. I'm kinda onboard with this idea. It enables more freedom and build possibilities (and more importantly fun), but preserves the current balance of augs vs core stats with a slight shift in favor of augs.

I'd be onboard with an idea like this provided it can be toggled from the arsenal and abilities menus.

This was similar to my original stance on augments to begin with... They should be toggleable to take the place of the old skill (no extra points)but had a higher energy cost. 

 

 

 

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

20 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

The Exilus slot was added for Parkour 2.0 and they(DE) diversified its' use.

????

what is this nonsense ?? You can't be serious. Just cause there's some mods that affect your bullet jumping and wall latch didn't mean the exilus was made for parkour 2.0. Scott literally came out & said on the devstream and said utility mods. Aka handspring , Rush , heavy impact, master thief, ect. 

Your just honestly starting to pull crap out your &#!

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

????

what is this nonsense ?? You can't be serious. Just cause there's some mods that affect your bullet jumping and wall latch didn't mean the exilus was made for parkour 2.0. Scott literally came out & said on the devstream and said utility mods. Aka handspring , Rush , heavy impact, master thief, ect. 

Your just honestly starting to pull crap out your &#!

When was the Exilus slot added? 

When was the Parkour 2.0 added?

Update 17.0 

Utility mods being named mods as Exilus mods would sufficiently assert "use diversification".

That's another one of those "fact" thingies though... Don't worry about it.

 

 

 

[xmegarockx]

how long we need to wait until we get an argument slot, because this is a need.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

6 minutes ago, xmegarockx said:

how long we need to wait until we get an argument slot, because this is a need.

Only after we get Complaint and Ragequit slots.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

5 hours ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

Only after we get Complaint and Ragequit slots.

Lol