Tonkor Balancing (Nerf) discussion..

[(PSN)AngelShur]

14 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Stop it. Nerfing is an inherent part of balance. Just because some entitled brats on the internet can't handle someone using the term doesn't mean that you should avoid it.

Beyond that, your OP literally says you don't think we should nerf it, followed quickly by a suggestion to add some self damage. This is a direct nerf.
That's, even then, followed by a lowering of critical and status. That's also a direct nerf, and that one is even more apparent.

Use the words to mean what they mean and let people cry about them.

I'm only responding to your OP in this manner since you just said you updated it.

I personally hate the word Nerf, so it's no spoiled brats fault I hate to use it. 

About my OP, I first stated what I personally feel about it, then I follow up on the suggestions given into this thread, both suggestions. 

After thinking about it for a time, I can find myself in these suggestions, that's why I also explained myself at the end ;)

But if you have other better suggestions, just leave it here, I'll surely read it. It must be objective directed to DE devs.... not personal preferences, but facts about the Tonkor. 

[(PSN)AngelShur]

5 hours ago, LazyKnight said:

I am posting again because this is something that is utterly untrue. "Nerf" means making something worse, and that's it. The state of the item in question after the adjustment has no requirement to be useful to be called a nerf or not. Some developers do and have nerfed thing into oblivion for the sake of making them useless as this force people to stop using it or buy the next flavor of the month item. 

The word nerf is used by both players and developers and it means, to make something worse. Some people and developers take it to the extremes but there is no requirement at all that a nerf item remains usable.

Wiki defines it here https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nerf  Not that people trust wiki's but it universally understood to mean the same thing everywhere. 

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Verb[edit]
nerf ‎(third-person singular simple present nerfs, present participle nerfing, simple past and past participle nerfed)

(slang, video games) To weaken, deteriorate or debuff (a character, a weapon, a spell, etc. or make it worsen) between multiple installments of a series of games or versions of the same game.
The lightning spell was originally pretty powerful, but in the sequel they nerfed it so it became completely useless.
Synonyms[edit]
debuff, worsen, deteriorate
Antonyms[edit]
buff, revamp, renovate, renew, improve

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/nerf

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verb (used with object)

2.

(lowercase) Slang. (in a video game) to reconfigure (an existing character or weapon), making it less powerful:

The game development team nerfed several guns in the recent update.

 

Tv Tropes definition of the word Nerf. 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Nerf

  Reveal hidden contents

A change to a game that weakens a particular item, ability or tactic. It's usually done to fix something perceived as a Game Breaker, and is almost always a subject of controversy in gaming communities. Occasionally, it's not a change in one game, but rather a change in an equivalent item, ability, or tactic between one game and its sequel. It does not mean it's debuff.

 

In the past, Nerfs for console games were all but impossible due to lacking the ability to patch them. Modern consoles, however, provide this ability, so they now join computer games in this. Many games, especially MMORPGs and other online multiplayer games, are constantly adjusted to maintain balance. Sometimes, that requires taking something powerful down a peg or two. Of course, users of that item will not be amused, and will inevitably flock to the forums to complain, resulting in a Flame War about whether or not the nerf was justified. On the other hand, rants from poor players that something should be nerfed are just as common. Either way, the subject is a touchy one.

 

A Buff or Revamp is a change for the better. These are as controversial as Nerfs; a Buff or Revamp to one unit's Hit Points is effectively a Nerf to the damage of anything attacking it. A Flame War can even develop on whether a given change is a Buff, Revamp or a Nerf, much less an improvement in the game as a whole.

 

These days, the term has been expanded so that "Nerf" is any downward adjustment, not just an unduly crippling one; similarly, the "Nerf Bat" is no longer what the player is issued to take on The Empire with, but what the developer whacks him with.

 

Games with Fake Balance often cause flame wars due to nerfs and buffs (and including revamps) implemented.

 

Has no relationship to "Narf". Distinct from Nerf Arm, which is a weapon that the player can intentionally weaken himself by using. We also have a page on the Nerf Brand of toys from which the name is derived.

 

Gimp, in other hand, is also a sign of Nerf which would worsen the game.

 

If people want to make Tonkor worse that's a nerf, if you want a rework call for a rework.

Wish I could give more +1's 

Edited May 21, 2016 by (PS4)AngelShur
Nerf defined.

[Currilicious]

On 5/21/2016 at 9:03 AM, EDYinnit said:

There are so many incomparables in that analogy I don't know where to start.

Let's go with something immediately understandable:

New physical entities are incongruous with digital entities. The former are better technologically, the parts and constructions that comprise the overall entity were not available to provide the same performance in the previous models. The latter are simply entering different, overall better values into various boxes that could have been entered into the exact same boxes of the predecessors.

Problem is the "better" part here. It would make no sense for me to agree if the "overall values" isn't actually better for me, but in fact worse. lol

That seems to offend you in some way. lol

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, Currilicious said:

Problem is the "better" part here. It would make no sense for me to agree if the "overall values" isn't actually better for me, but in fact worse. lol

That seems to offend you in some way. lol

Wilful ignorance and abject selfishness do your argument no favours.

ME ME ME MY MY MY.

The game's not about you, mercifully, so anyone can see that you're nothing but self-serving and therefore have nothing of actual weight to offer to the debate.

[Currilicious]

On 5/21/2016 at 9:11 AM, TheBrsrkr said:

Haven't followed a single one yet. 

I don't like it because I have pointed out several times that game balance and mechanics are not affected by personal preference in any way, shape or form. To which you said that the point that of the game is to have fun which makes it inherently subjective, to which I said that your premise is wrong since the game is about making money and something objective cannot be inherently subjective because that's how the English language and logic  works. Can we move on already? 

Participation is not a preference, because there's nobody who has fun not participating. People who have fun not participating aren't playing the game. They are doing something.  Damage. Kills. Looting. Chat. Parkour. Stealth. Melee. Abilities. Which one of these you use specifically  is a preference, but using them at all is not, because you have to use at least some of them. And since everyone matters equally, a metric for participation was created on the basis of what the developers intend for you to do. 

 

Let me highlight the important part for you, since you seem to easily miss the point. The content provides the fun, so whether or not fun is subjective is irrelevant, because content has the effect of bringing fun, not the other way around. You don't make a sheep with wool. 

Shocker. 

I really think you really should just play solo. All I'm reading from your opinions is how you want people to behave in a certain way in game as to not compromise your gameplay in any way. Participation is preference. You choose how you participate. You are the one behind the keyboard. The premise that the game is a tool for fun is always right, TYVM. Maybe it's different for you since your interest seem to be judging how others play instead lol.

[Currilicious]

1 minute ago, EDYinnit said:

Wilful ignorance and abject selfishness do your argument no favours.

ME ME ME MY MY MY.

The game's not about you, mercifully, so anyone can see that you're nothing but self-serving and therefore have nothing of actual weight to offer to the debate.

Says the person telling everyone how to play and how not to play. That's rich lol.

[SprinKah]

Maybe reduce the ammo clip to 1 grenade? That would make more sense than having 2 grenades. And maybe some other things.

[TheBrsrkr]

2 hours ago, Currilicious said:

I really think you really should just play solo. 

I really think you should just stop commenting. 

 

2 hours ago, Currilicious said:

. All I'm reading from your opinions is how you want people to behave in a certain way in game as to not compromise your gameplay in any way.

Then you don't know how to read. 

 

2 hours ago, Currilicious said:

. Participation is preference. You choose how you participate. You are the one behind the keyboard. 

I wasn't aware that Rhino Stomp allows you to hover in the air like Zephyr because you want it to. Preference is a "choice"  given to you by the confines of the game. You can choose which part of the game you want to interact with, but you can't choose what you can't and can't do in these parts. It doesn't matter who's behind the keyboard, this does not change. 

 

2 hours ago, Currilicious said:

. The premise that the game is a tool for fun is always right, TYVM. 

Because you say so. When in fact, it's wrong. 

 

2 hours ago, Currilicious said:

. Maybe it's different for you since your interest seem to be judging how others play instead lol.

Or maybe because I understand how english works? 

[AurumandArgentum]

4 hours ago, Currilicious said:

I really think you really should just play solo.

Your funny, playing this game on solo is basically how to die of boredom, this game is meant for you have friends if you don't well, you burn out and die, though even with friends the burnout is strong due to the grind so believe it or not, but telling someone to play solo is A. Not a valid argument. and B. Basically telling them to hop, skip, and jump right off a cliff because in solo on high levels, you may aswell do that.

Also I have been paying attention to this thread since it first started, you always respond with "Play Solo" Please get some better points or just get out. Merci beaucoup monsieur.

[mael9740]

24 minutes ago, AurumandArgentum said:

Your funny, playing this game on solo is basically how to die of boredom, this game is meant for you have friends if you don't well, you burn out and die, though even with friends the burnout is strong due to the grind so believe it or not, but telling someone to play solo is A. Not a valid argument. and B. Basically telling them to hop, skip, and jump right off a cliff because in solo on high levels, you may aswell do that.

Also I have been paying attention to this thread since it first started, you always respond with "Play Solo" Please get some better points or just get out. Merci beaucoup monsieur.

Ou madame, on sait pas.

Anyway, this weapon ruin the gameplay of many people. You say "solo" or "play with friends".

26 minutes ago, AurumandArgentum said:

Your funny, playing this game on solo is basically how to die of boredom

And for friends, many of my friends use the tonkor. And i will not stop playing with them just because they use tonkor.

[AurumandArgentum]

10 minutes ago, mael9740 said:

Ou madame, on sait pas.

Anyway, this weapon ruin the gameplay of many people. You say "solo" or "play with friends".

And for friends, many of my friends use the tonkor. And i will not stop playing with them just because they use tonkor.

I honestly have nothing against the Tonkor, Its a necessary evil and every game has that one weapon that breaks the balance so I don't care. I was just tired of him constantly replying with Play Solo if your going to argue, at least have some valid points. Thought I do find in some situations it can be game breaking. And next time don't misinterpret my words. Au revoir 

Quote

Anyway, this weapon ruin the gameplay of many people. You say "solo" or "play with friends".

Not quite sure what you mean here btw, if you could explain better that'd be lovely. 

(P.S Make sure to choose the correct gender next time, don't want to look stupid on the internet now do you?)

Edited May 22, 2016 by AurumandArgentum

[mael9740]

6 minutes ago, AurumandArgentum said:

I honestly have nothing against the Tonkor, Its a necessary evil and every game has that one weapon that breaks the balance so I don't care. I was just tired of him constantly replying with Play Solo if your going to argue, at least have some valid points. Thought I do find in some situations it can be game breaking. And next time don't misinterpret my words. Au revoir 

Not quite sure what you mean here btw, if you could explain better that'd be lovely. 

(P.S Make sure to choose the correct gender next time, don't want to look stupid on the internet now do you?)

Have you ever played inaros in a tonkor team? You die alot more because you can't heal and they don't care about you. They kill any enemy instantly when you try to heal.

[AurumandArgentum]

Just now, mael9740 said:

Have you ever played inaros in a tonkor team? You die alot more because you can't heal and they don't care about you. They kill any enemy instantly when you try to heal.

No I haven't because again, I really don't care either way, the amount of times the Tonkor has actually shown up in my games that I play can be counted on one hand so I don't have any sort of data or prior anything to talk about, I doubt I will use the Tonkor either as it doesn't fit my playstyle, also I don't do Inaros either. 

[Kennythief]

I have an idea if you don't like it don't use it! If anything all the other weapons need to be buffed there are so many you can't use like the machete as an example looks good but that's about it

[TheLexiConArtist]

9 hours ago, Currilicious said:

Says the person telling everyone how to play and how not to play^{[citation needed]}. That's rich lol.

That's not becoming any more true simply because you say it is so more often.

[-N7-Leonhart]

On 5/13/2016 at 10:03 PM, Prinny13 said:

This, don't nerf but buff those that are lackluster!! 

 

4 hours ago, Kennythief said:

I have an idea if you don't like it don't use it! If anything all the other weapons need to be buffed there are so many you can't use like the machete as an example looks good but that's about it

Sure, let's buff all the other 300 weapons and completely throw off the game, instead of nerfing this one weapon that solely relies on an engine defect to do 4X more damage that what the stats on it say. 

I have seen this cycle a lot now. Acrid, Synoid Gammacor and now Tonkor, it's always the same. 

[LazyKnight]

6 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

 

Sure, let's buff all the other 300 weapons and completely throw off the game, instead of nerfing this one weapon that solely relies on an engine defect to do 4X more damage that what the stats on it say. 

I have seen this cycle a lot now. Acrid, Synoid Gammacor and now Tonkor, it's always the same. 

Synoid gammacor was a weapon that did what the Ui said it would do. It wasn't using any engine defect or anything else people just didn't like the numbers it was displaying when they stacked fire-rate mods. So DE response to people's QQ, they made it another Twin viper clone and now it can't even be used as a continuous laser anymore. DE could have just lowered the damage, but no they made it a bullet hose. 

Synapse goes on the list next to Acrid and Tonkor as that was a weapon that had some engine defect or synergistic exploit of a system. Synapse did far and away more dps than the stats would indicate possible when using viral when the beam used to hit innumerable times in a second (it lowered the TTK time endlessly on contact).

Edited May 22, 2016 by LazyKnight

[WARLOCKE]

20 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

Synoid gammacor was a weapon that did what the Ui said it would do. It wasn't using any engine defect or anything else people just didn't like the numbers it was displaying when they stacked fire-rate mods. So DE response to people's QQ, they made it another Twin viper clone and now it can't even be used as a continuous laser anymore. DE could have just lowered the damage, but no they made it a bullet hose. 

Synapse goes on the list next to Acrid and Tonkor as that was a weapon that had some engine defect or synergistic exploit of a system. Synapse did far and and away more dps than the stats would indicate possible when using viral when the beam used to hit innumerable times in a second (it lowered the TTK time endlessly on contact).

Gammacor needed a nerf. Just not as severe as the one it got.

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

remove self-damage from other explosive weapons (since only the player suffers self-damage from weapons and not the AI) and players may start using them again instead of Tonkor

[TheLexiConArtist]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

remove self-damage from other explosive weapons (since only the player suffers self-damage from weapons and not the AI) and players may start using them again instead of Tonkor

No. That would stop me using them all forever. You can't solve one problem by adding more to it.

[-N7-Leonhart]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

remove self-damage from other explosive weapons (since only the player suffers self-damage from weapons and not the AI) and players may start using them again instead of Tonkor

Sure, let's start using the crappy weapons and throw away this thing that does 10X more damage. No one will ever do that.

What they need to do is:

1. Remove the self-damage

2. Nerf the Tonkor

3. Buff the others.

And barely after all these 3, people may, no guarantees, may start using other explosive weapons.

Edited May 22, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[TheLexiConArtist]

5 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Sure, let's start using the crappy weapons and throw away this thing that does 10X more damage. No one will ever do that.

What they need to do is:

1. Reduce the overall self-damage

2. Nerf the Tonkor

2a. Reduce the peak damage output of the Tonkor

2b. Give self-damage to the Tonkor

3. Buff the others.

And barely after all these 3, people may, no guarantees, may start using other explosive weapons.

ftfy

Edited May 22, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Currilicious]

17 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I really think you should just stop commenting. 

 

Then you don't know how to read. 

 

I wasn't aware that Rhino Stomp allows you to hover in the air like Zephyr because you want it to. Preference is a "choice"  given to you by the confines of the game. You can choose which part of the game you want to interact with, but you can't choose what you can't and can't do in these parts. It doesn't matter who's behind the keyboard, this does not change. 

 

Because you say so. When in fact, it's wrong. 

 

Or maybe because I understand how english works? 

I mean dude, you're so angry. And at other people. Over a game. Keep insisting they play this way or that. It won't work man. People will always do what they like to do. And you'll still be pissed off. I dunno man. I guess whatever floats your boat.

[Currilicious]

10 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

That's not becoming any more true simply because you say it is so more often.

Well I don't go around telling folks what's good or bad, right and wrong for their game. So I guess that's that lol.

[Currilicious]

15 hours ago, AurumandArgentum said:

Your funny, playing this game on solo is basically how to die of boredom, this game is meant for you have friends if you don't well, you burn out and die, though even with friends the burnout is strong due to the grind so believe it or not, but telling someone to play solo is A. Not a valid argument. and B. Basically telling them to hop, skip, and jump right off a cliff because in solo on high levels, you may aswell do that.

Also I have been paying attention to this thread since it first started, you always respond with "Play Solo" Please get some better points or just get out. Merci beaucoup monsieur.

That's what I'm trying to tell him dude. Even offered him some ideas how to get along with other people, he told me to shove it lol. When you want to play with other people you need to accept everyone plays the game the way they like it. There is no point if you group up with some random dudes and then get angry because they are using this weapon or that.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Currilicious