Useless Ult abilities?

[-dicht.Amducias-]

3 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Mindless CC is when you can press a button every 10-15 seconds and never have to fight an enemy ever again.  More interactivity is good; some of us want to play a game, not a farming simulator.  

Then play your game how you want it, do not force it onto others

[Deidaku]

Hydroid's.

 

UNRELIABLE

[Monsterwithin]

Radial Disarm.

 

[RealPandemonium]

34 minutes ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Then play your game how you want it, do not force it onto others

I hardly have a game to play anymore thanks to peoples' love of training wheels.  What should I be saying?

Edited May 16, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[ThePredicament]

At this point in time, I don't think "ult" is the proper term for their 4 skills (although most do fall in that category) but with a frames like Inaros and Atlas, their 1 is definitely the real ult. Same with Bansh's Sonar, Chrom's Vex Armor, Nyx's Chaos, etc.

[--RV--Meta]

20 hours ago, (PS4)JaysInc_ said:

Super jump ultimate omega nexus

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Idk...

 

What's wrong with my cousin's Super Jump? He's been working really hard on it, you know~

 

More on topic though, I suppose I could half-assedly gripe about how Loki's Ult requires a twirling flourish that gets you killed half the time if you're not invisible (though why wouldn't you be invisible? I know, I know), and someone suggested that it would work better in more situations if it were just a quick snap of the fingers, rather than a Russian Ballet performance. Other than that, s'noice.

[jfhsanseiIII]

3 hours ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Then play your game how you want it, do not force it onto others

That argument is fairly self-centered as it focuses on only you and your opinion.  Maintaining the "one button watch Netflix" approach to frames instantly forces the vast majority of gamers who play in publics or looking for groups who must have those frames, even if they don't enjoy it. People will, when given the chance, mostly choose the path of least resistance.  Whereas making the case for more involvement from players helps maintain a healthy and constructive game and community.  If there's no 'ultimate doom' option for one frame and everyone's required to be focused then the games lifespan will increase.  Running around with WoF is not fun for anyone.  

[Gorila_Azul]

8 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

That argument is fairly self-centered as it focuses on only you and your opinion.  Maintaining the "one button watch Netflix" approach to frames instantly forces the vast majority of gamers who play in publics or looking for groups who must have those frames, even if they don't enjoy it. People will, when given the chance, mostly choose the path of least resistance.  Whereas making the case for more involvement from players helps maintain a healthy and constructive game and community.  If there's no 'ultimate doom' option for one frame and everyone's required to be focused then the games lifespan will increase.  Running around with WoF is not fun for anyone.  

Excuse you. I get loads of fun from that ability. Plus, your argument is oblivious to the fact that solo play is also a thing in the game. Some people are just not interested or not able to play in groups. There should always be self-sufficient and self-fulfilling ways to play for those people.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Mesa after rework.

[jfhsanseiIII]

25 minutes ago, p_ar7hur said:

Excuse you. I get loads of fun from that ability. Plus, your argument is oblivious to the fact that solo play is also a thing in the game. Some people are just not interested or not able to play in groups. There should always be self-sufficient and self-fulfilling ways to play for those people.

Yea. again it's the same argument different take on it. Bi can appreciate solo play, as I also enjoy it. However creating abilities that allow players to sleep their way through content be it solo, in randoms, looking for group, with clan mates, or with a sock if cold pizza a warm cola and a dwarf hitting the 4 button for you makes no difference.  For the health of the game abilities need to supplement gameplay just like guns and enemies.  They cannot be the focus. Otherwise you've lazy players that will ultimately infringe upon everyone's gameplay.  Creating involved play mechanics which require your attention take that 'lazy' element away. 

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

I'd say Ember, in part because I can't think of any actually bad ult, since they all have situational uses, but mainly because I'm tired of all you nubcakes running around with WoF on during a lv15 exterminate mission. Are the enemies really that hard to kill? I don't play a game to sit back and let the game play itself for me, that's no fun. I understand that it's in the game to be used, and trust me, I sometimes use it too since I do use Ember, but I'm not just going to turn it on at the very start of the mission and run through

[SenorClipClop]

54 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

That argument is fairly self-centered as it focuses on only you and your opinion.  Maintaining the "one button watch Netflix" approach to frames instantly forces the vast majority of gamers who play in publics or looking for groups who must have those frames, even if they don't enjoy it. People will, when given the chance, mostly choose the path of least resistance.  Whereas making the case for more involvement from players helps maintain a healthy and constructive game and community.  If there's no 'ultimate doom' option for one frame and everyone's required to be focused then the games lifespan will increase.  Running around with WoF is not fun for anyone.  

^^ A response to this vv

4 hours ago, -dicht.Amducias- said:

Then play your game how you want it, do not force it onto others

Gonna have to agree/disagree with you there, jfhsanseilll. Nobody says you must have p42w frames, ever. I mean, maybe if they're recruiting for a mission and need a DPS, but you don't have to play with them and you are never, ever forced to play the game in way you don't want to play it. Ever. If you're playing an RJ Excal because its optimal but you don't really like playing that way, you are choosing to play that loadout and can stop at any time. It's true that many players will often choose the highest power output for the lowest skill/effort input, this path least of resistance, but Warframe's deep variety and customization will always give you viable options for any way you want to play (and they'll invent it if it's not in the game yet, like the shrinking Warframe we'll be getting in U19).

And honestly, I really like some of those crazy powerful ultimates. For example, I enjoy running around the map with World on Fire, watching enemies explode simply from proximity. I don't play Ember that much, and her kit offers so much more than just WoF (I only toggle on the ability when dealing with large waves of grunt enemies), but when I play Ember I do it because I enjoy playing Ember, not because it's numerically optimal. Can you pop on an 'ultimate doom' power and go take a nap? Absolutely, and the game lets player do this because some players enjoy playing like this. Overdoing this strategy is a bad habit, but Warframe is not going to hold your hand to make sure you're playing the game in a way that makes it the most interesting. Can you play hundreds of hours of the same frame with the same weapons on the same mission? Yes, of course. It's up to you. But it's also up to you to go try new builds, new missions and new ways to play the same stuff.

I feel like the problem at the root of all this is a lack of creativity in some players. Many will look at Exhalted Blade and just see spammable damage a grounded Fluctus, but I think the strongest aspect of the ability is its ability to unleash a radial stun whenever you want. I see Equinox's Mend as extremely powerful, because when she turns it on I know I can go ham and not worry about my health, since if the squad does good damage we all get healed back up. Zephyr's tornadoes aren't world-ending, but they'll protect fully one half of an Excavator while you cover the other half.

Creativity, communication and strategy are key to making combat so much better. Ultimately there will be people who don't do this, since "press4mashE" will get the job done, but this just shows the player doing this hasn't though of anything better to do. Show them your stylish ways, Tenno. Inspire players to experiment and find the power they never saw before.

[Sapphic-Sandra]

Since honestly no warframe truly has a 'useless' fourth I'll list redundant ones:

Mag's Crush, Saryn's Miasma, Banshee's Sound Quake, Ember's World on Fire, Chroma's Effigy.

I love these abilities but either they or some other ability in each kit needs to be changed as they just fill the same niche other abilities already do for each of these frames.

[Evan-0-matic]

On May 15, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Reitrahc said:

Atlas.

I knew someone on the very first page would bring him up!

And yeah, it's your opinion and all that jazz... But I couldn't agree less.

When you mod him for strength and duration those Tumblers last for more than a minute and WILL NOT DIE (unless they wonder into a Nullifier field). I main him for everything end game and I've never seen one go down from damage alone. And although they do not kill all that much, their CC is amazing. When they throw rocks they hardly miss, maybe 5% of the time they miss their mark. And their melee attacks knock any enemy down. Making them a perfect target for a Landslide finisher.

They also donate launcher shells on impact, so using them as a blast wall for Tonkor shells is perfect.

 

I think the Rumblers are one the top 5 ults in the Warframe... But that's my opinion man.

 

As for the OP... I'd have to say Volt. For now! :]

 

[Get_Singed]

1 minute ago, Evan-0-matic said:

I knew someone on the very first page would bring him up!

And yeah, it's your opinion and all that jazz... But I couldn't agree less.

When you mod him for strength and duration those Tumblers last for more than a minute and WILL NOT DIE (unless they wonder into a Nullifier field). I main him for everything end game and I've never seen one go down from damage alone. And although they do not kill all that much, their CC is amazing. When they throw rocks they hardly miss, maybe 5% of the time they miss their mark. And their melee attacks knock any enemy down. Making them a perfect target for a Landslide finisher.

They also donate launcher shells on impact, so using them as a blast wall for Tonkor shells is perfect.

 

I think the Rumblers are one the top 5 ults in the Warframe... But that's my opinion man.

 

As for the OP... I'd have to say Volt. For now! :]

 

Atlas's ult cannot possibly be described as "good" in any way. It is mediocre in every way and that's why it's useless. Its cc is mediocre, its damage is mediocre, it's defense abilities are mediocre as well since you have no control over them. It's cool, but it sucks. Rather than the top 5 ults, this is definitely one of the 5 worst ults, if not the worst. If the Rumblers were controllable or dealt more damage it would be different, but as they stand, they are a garbage ult.

[Evan-0-matic]

2 minutes ago, Reitrahc said:

Atlas's ult cannot possibly be described as "good" in any way. It is mediocre in every way and that's why it's useless. Its cc is mediocre, its damage is mediocre, it's defense abilities are mediocre as well since you have no control over them. It's cool, but it sucks. Rather than the top 5 ults, this is definitely one of the 5 worst ults, if not the worst. If the Rumblers were controllable or dealt more damage it would be different, but as they stand, they are a garbage ult.

Still disagree completely, and you didn't seem to take any of points as to why it's great to heart. 

Let me generalize... The ultimate provides two huge sources of agro, that can last more than a minute, and will not die. It doesn't kill the whole map like Ash (which is the worst ult in the game for that reason, in my opinion. Trivializes game play) but it will provide cover, and a great distraction for any game mode. They also keep you safe during a revive since they don't wander off as much as you claim. And even if they do, mine draw agro all day... What else would you call great cc? Loki rad disarm, sure... But not many others compete. 

 

I run into players all day who think very little of Atlas and when I leave a round or even sortie with the most melee kills (landslide), no deaths, most damage taken, and all the revives... I hope I've changed their minds. 

 

How long did did you play him for? Draco till level 30 and that's it? Haha ;)

[Get_Singed]

6 minutes ago, Evan-0-matic said:

Still disagree completely, and you didn't seem to take any of points as to why it's great to heart. 

Let me generalize... The ultimate provides two huge sources of agro, that can last more than a minute, and will not die. It doesn't kill the whole map like Ash (which is the worst ult in the game for that reason, in my opinion. Trivializes game play) but it will provide cover, and a great distraction for any game mode. They also keep you safe during a revive since they don't wander off as much as you claim. And even if they do, mine draw agro all day... What else would you call great cc? Loki rad disarm, sure... But not many others compete. 

 

I run into players all day who think very little of Atlas and when I leave a round or even sortie with the most melee kills (landslide), no deaths, most damage taken, and all the revives... I hope I've changed their minds. 

 

How long did did you play him for? Draco till level 30 and that's it? Haha ;)

Great cc is Rhino stomp, Frost avalanche, Loki disarm, Vauban's Bastille and Vortex even Inaros's scarab swarm placed properly, etc. I'm not saying they wander off, I'm saying they cannot be controlled ie you cannot position them yourself. I have a little bit of bad news for you here, but those stats you're so proud of don't really do anything to help your team, they just show that you're going around punching everything in sight and letting your teammates be killed off. Rather than doing what you say, it would be infinitely more helpful to your team to bring any of the frames I listed and lockdown all the enemies and prevent deaths, rather than have to take the risk of reviving your allies. It is a lack of understanding like yours that leads people to believe something is good because it's good solo.

Also, as someone who loves the brawler playstyle, Atlas was actually one of my first frames and I bought him with plat because I wanted to go full melee into the game. I dropped him really fast when I realized he doesn't actually bring anything to the table other than being a good solo frame. Inaros is everything I wanted Atlas to be, with way more utility.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Reitrahc

[Evan-0-matic]

2 hours ago, Reitrahc said:

Great cc is Rhino stomp, Frost avalanche, Loki disarm, Vauban's Bastille and Vortex even Inaros's scarab swarm placed properly, etc. I'm not saying they wander off, I'm saying they cannot be controlled ie you cannot position them yourself. I have a little bit of bad news for you here, but those stats you're so proud of don't really do anything to help your team, they just show that you're going around punching everything in sight and letting your teammates be killed off. Rather than doing what you say, it would be infinitely more helpful to your team to bring any of the frames I listed and lockdown all the enemies and prevent deaths, rather than have to take the risk of reviving your allies. It is a lack of understanding like yours that leads people to believe something is good because it's good solo.

Also, as someone who loves the brawler playstyle, Atlas was actually one of my first frames and I bought him with plat because I wanted to go full melee into the game. I dropped him really fast when I realized he doesn't actually bring anything to the table other than being a good solo frame. Inaros is everything I wanted Atlas to be, with way more utility.

Come on man... Now you're attacking my play style without even knowing me, and claiming that I only care about myself. Weak way to prove a point. 

And wrong on all accounts. I also use Atlas's wall augment, which locks down areas better than Snowglobe. It may not block ALL incoming fire, but with 3 of them and with my strength build, they as well do not go down easily. And enemies cannot pass through them like they can through Snowglobe. 

As for my stats that apparently lead to your other poor accusations... I did say most 'melee kills' not kills. I never take pride in being the guy with most kills, cause it does send the wrong message. But I pointed out my Landslide (melee) kills because it means when an objective, fellow player, hostage, whatever was in trouble or in a hot spot I do my best to clear the area with my high range '1' or cover the other players while they revive/ protect the objective. It also works well when you need to hit a life support or again defend someone else who is doing just that. 

Most damage recieved is something worth taking pride as it means I took a bunch of damage another player might have succumbed to (Atlas is a solid tank when built right and played with a tactical mind set)... Meaning I was defending/ reviving or simply being the point man moving from one area to the next never leaving my team behind (I never rush and/ or leave them behind).  

And back to the Rumblers... Yes, they wander but when you summon them they stay close for a decent amount of time and the enemies surrounding you, the objective, or another player are completely ignored due to the Rumblers agro. No, it's not the best cc. But it works well, especially with a Nova... Here's more team synergy... They can kill high level enemies in waves when a Nova primes them. 

They also work well for the reason you hate, in Extraction... They run off and distract incoming waves while players protecting an extractor pick off power cell carrying enemies that me and other tanks can go grab safely. 

I know I play well with others by the way... I've been commended on it in pugs, by my clan, and often in sorties. Hell, my second favorite frame is a tie between Loki Prime and Rhino Prime, both fantastic team frames when played correctly.  I've been playing for more 3 years and would have been told I'm not a team player in-game by now.

I could go on and on... But you don't like Atlas and I do. So what's the point?

[Get_Singed]

2 minutes ago, Evan-0-matic said:

Come on man... Now you're attacking my play style without even knowing me, and claiming that I only care about myself. Weak way to prove a point. 

And wrong on all accounts. I also use Atlas's wall augment, which locks down areas better than Snowglobe. It may not block ALL incoming fire, but with 3 of them and with my strength build, they as well do not go down easily. And enemies cannot pass through them like they can through Snowglobe. 

As for my stats that apparently lead to your other poor accusations... I did say most 'melee kills' not kills. I never take pride in being the guy with most kills, cause it does send the wrong message. But I pointed out my Landslide (melee) kills because it means when an objective, fellow player, hostage, whatever was in trouble or in a hot spot I do my best to clear the area with my high range '1' or cover the other players while they revive/ protect the objective. It also works well when you need to hit a life support or again defend someone else who is doing just that. 

Most damage recieved is something worth taking pride as it means I took a bunch of damage another player might have succumbed to (Atlas is a solid tank when built right and played with a tactical mind set)... Meaning I was defending/ reviving or simply being the point man moving from one area to the next never leaving my team behind (I never rush and/ or leave them behind).  

And back to the Rumblers... Yes, they wander but when you summon them they stay close for a decent amount of time and the enemies surrounding you, the objective, or another player are completely ignored due to the Rumblers agro. No, it's not the best cc. But it works well, especially with a Nova... Here's more team synergy... They can kill high level enemies in waves when a Nova primes them. 

They also work well for the reason you hate, in Extraction... They run off and distract incoming waves while players protecting an extractor pick off power cell carrying enemies that me and other tanks can go grab safely. 

I know I play well with others by the way... I've been commended on it in pugs, by my clan, and often in sorties. Hell, my second favorite frame is a tie between Loki Prime and Rhino Prime, both fantastic team frames when played correctly.  I've been playing for more 3 years and would have been told I'm not a team player in-game by now.

I could go on and on... But you don't like Atlas and I do. So what's the point?

I'm simply pointing out how poorly Atlas's ult compares to other ults. Since you brought your stats into it, I felt I should inform you as to why your stats are actually detrimental to your team. A combination of high melee kills, low deaths and high damage taken clearly points to someone taking a tanky frame and trying to 1 man the entire mission, trying to fight all the enemies themself. The fact that you have to revive allies means you're leaving your allies to die themselves. In this game, high damage taken is not a good thing. There is no frame that attracts damage to itself away from allies, and Atlas does not benefit from receiving damage.

Getting back on point, if Atlas's ult is only good in tandem with Nova's ult, that's not good. Any source of damage at all will annihilate high level enemies once Nova has primed them.

To make this clearer, why would I want to summon a few uncontrollable npcs that absorb a bit of damage and draw some aggro, when I can Rhino Stomp and freeze every single enemy in a massive radius for a long time so they can't attack at all, or just summon a Frost Snowglobe and block ALL damage. Or why would I want to summon some stone golems that do a bit of damage, when I can use Ash's Bladestorm and do way more damage to all the enemies and be invincible while doing it, killing everything in sight?

I understand that you are attached to Atlas, but his ultimate is downright bad when compared to the other ultimates in the game.

[PEPIYEA]

I don't use useless abilities,so i don't know.

[WARLOCKE]

Chroma, no arguement. Its the only Ult (in my memory) which actually debuffs the user. It strips 50% armor on a frame that live and dies by armor. Goof work on that one DE :D

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, WARLOCKE said:

Chroma, no arguement. Its the only Ult (in my memory) which actually debuffs the user. It strips 50% armor on a frame that live and dies by armor. Goof work on that one DE :D

Chroma's ult trades defensive power for greater overall speed while active (+20% speed, -50% armor) and is a good move for support-style Chroma. Support-style Chroma will use the 1 and 4 more heavily than Tank Chroma, who more often uses 2 and 3. No judgments here which way is better to play, for me it's simply a matter of preference.

Very few players know this, but support/mage Chroma is actually a highly effective credit farmer. Enemies killed by the dragon effigy will have a 60% chance to drop double credits (at max rank). Take him with you to credit farm.

[SoulSpectre]

Inaros IMO. Sure, the CC and the extra tankiness is okay, but I feel that it's too 'passive' to be an ult. Also, the sand CC is only useful at very very high levels. In my opinion, his Darude would have been a better ult (just give it more damage), and his current ult would've been a better 3rd.

[WARLOCKE]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

Chroma's ult trades defensive power for greater overall speed while active (+20% speed, -50% armor) and is a good move for support-style Chroma. Support-style Chroma will use the 1 and 4 more heavily than Tank Chroma, who more often uses 2 and 3. No judgments here which way is better to play, for me it's simply a matter of preference.

Very few players know this, but support/mage Chroma is actually a highly effective credit farmer. Enemies killed by the dragon effigy will have a 60% chance to drop double credits (at max rank). Take him with you to credit farm.

Its far quicker to earn credits by running missions quickly than sitting there farming on a survival or defense. So I didnt include that because its more of a flavor thing than a actually functioning ability, but if you have use for it more power to you I guess. I have never used effigy for this because simply running and void cap/sab or dark sector excavation is a far more lucrative adventure on multiple levels. But im willing to concede that to those who need it, and dont have access to those mission types or other standard methods of credit farming, have a use for effigy. But id wager thats a small list.

As speaking for a "support" Chroma im not sure thats a wise use of his abilities. To my liking, elemental ward isnt worth slotting Chroma for outside of some odd set ups (fire + inaros) that are done for the "fun" value. Not entirely sure why a support Chroma would use spectral scream. But hey, I dont know everything. On the surface and according to like.....everyone, spectral scream is one of the worst skills in the game. But whatever, now we are drifting off topic. Let me put this back on track.

For a vast majority of players Chroma is played as a tank. And as a tank he cant afford to lose 50% of his armor, esp for a meager speed increase. Chroma is neither slow nor needs that speed to play him to his intended role. Now if the trade off was 50/50 then id entertain the idea of effigy not being a debuff. But as it stands, for the majority of Chroma players, effigy is near useless outside of a quick very short range AoE stagger. So I keep my vote for effigy. This is also not taking into consideration effigys truly horrific energy cost and minuscule damage output.

 

Edited May 17, 2016 by WARLOCKE

[WARLOCKE]

32 minutes ago, SoulSpectre said:

Inaros IMO. Sure, the CC and the extra tankiness is okay, but I feel that it's too 'passive' to be an ult. Also, the sand CC is only useful at very very high levels. In my opinion, his Darude would have been a better ult (just give it more damage), and his current ult would've been a better 3rd.

I dunno, while scarab armor certainly isnt a "WOW" skill, it has limited use. Its AoE could use a bit of a boost but its healing is probably one of the best sources of healing outside of blessing, attached to a CC. What id like to see is the charge speed increased. Ive used the skill many times with outstanding results.