U19 will be a turning point... or will not.

[XenoFant]

For once I see someone who isn't afraid of saying all this stuff out loud.

You hit the point, at all apects. By this "Grind your life or spend money" ideology Warframe is evolving from seemingly a Free 2 Play to a Pay 2 Play (concerning slots and parts at all).

About the Void Drop Tables:

I've seen many people talking about an alternative for getting Prime Parts. Although it kind of negates Baro's system of trading, it is worth mentioning and considering.

Each mission rewards the player with ducates instead of parts. For example T1Ext gives you 5 Ducates and T4Def, 20 Waves, somewhere about 45 Ducates (Of course each mission type and difficulty differenciates). Then you can trade those Ducates for Prime Parts. Volt Prime Blueprint might be worth 75 Ducates and I dunno, Ash Prime Blueprint around 160. With this system the Void would be enormously fair and we wouldn't have to blame the bad RNG (which we do now of course). I think this is the best suggestion for the Void Rework so far (if there is any better way, let me know ;) I want to know).

[Astery86]

in all honesty, I expect star chart 3.0 to only bring smoke and mirrors that actually increases grind. it might only feel there is less/ the same with different maps and so on.

Vault Prime Access may or may not be gone, but if it ever will, there will only be because there's a new Umbra Access instead IMO.

[S0V3REiGN]

Unfortunately the game just can't be free to play and easy to acquire things. DE has to pay the bills so they need someone to buy their over priced content (no Sugatra and Syandana is worth $50) but I buy it because I like supporting the game.

[Nijyumensou]

4 minutes ago, XenoFant said:

For once I see someone who isn't afraid of saying all this stuff out loud.

You hit the point, at all apects. By this "Grind your life or spend money" ideology Warframe is evolving from seemingly a Free 2 Play to a Pay 2 Play (concerning slots and parts at all).

About the Void Drop Tables:

I've seen many people talking about an alternative for getting Prime Parts. Although it kind of negates Baro's system of trading, it is worth mentioning and considering.

Each mission rewards the player with ducates instead of parts. For example T1Ext gives you 5 Ducates and T4Def, 20 Waves, somewhere about 45 Ducates (Of course each mission type and difficulty differenciates). Then you can trade those Ducates for Prime Parts. Volt Prime Blueprint might be worth 75 Ducates and I dunno, Ash Prime Blueprint around 160. With this system the Void would be enormously fair and we wouldn't have to blame the bad RNG (which we do now of course). I think this is the best suggestion for the Void Rework so far (if there is any better way, let me know ;) I want to know).

Might as well shut down trade chat, right? 

[XenoFant]

2 minutes ago, Windspike said:

_{"No offense, but... *offensive term*."  Lol... people.}

 

Anyway though.  I keep seeing these threads, especially since yesterday, and I'm not sure I understand.  What's wrong with something dropping in rotation C of tier 3?  If I'm reading it right, your argument is that it's unfair to those that do not have as much time and/or money as others?

 

Um... that's life?

 

Why is it an issue that if you can't afford to buy it from DE you must grind to get it for free?

If you want to spend 80 years farming that ine part, you're welcome.

If DE really wants to be F2P, they should make the chances to obtain those parts fairly, because they drop at a chance of lower than 0.01% sometimes. If you're willing to pay platinum or spend years, go on.

I'm just saying that a big issue in Warframe is handling new players. They don't have access to almost anything.

[KiteoHatto]

People who don't have time to play because of life/work, but still want the latest bells and whistles pay to get it. They can do it because they get paid. (that's me when i have money left over after payday and rent, utilities, food, etc...) It's also a matter of "how much do you like warframe?" i suppose.

People who play the game a lot are able to not pay and just get by through grind, but for free. (that was also me at some point when i was unemployed)

Now, people who don't want to pay or grind are asking for newest stuff to be handed to them on a silver platter week 1.(remember that each PA is like ~1.5 month's worth of content, the other 1.5 month are the alerts, random frame and an event or something).

 

People just don't have the patience and want everything now and easy, then they moan of the forums about being bored and lack of content.

Why is it such a huge problem for you people to take your time with the game and enjoy it ? Treat every fresh PA as a long-ish goal to strive towards and incentive to login and play. Why is it a problem ?

Edited May 18, 2016 by kiteohatto

[XenoFant]

3 minutes ago, Nijyumensou said:

Might as well shut down trade chat, right? 

Well as far as I understood your statement, you're saying that the Trade Chat would be worthless.

Concerning Parts Parts, yes it would be. BUT trading mods, imprints, Syndicate Weapons, cores, Sortie Rewards, or even Ducates (if it would make any sense at all, I dunno) would still function the same way, instead that maybe platinum purchases would decrease because people pay with Ducates.

[Guest]

Ninjas play free.

 

[p3z1]

23 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Yeah Vauban's nitains requirements has put this game in a position where it's not exactly supposed to be.

If only nitain alerts stayed longer...

 

14 minutes ago, DeHACKtivate said:

I have money to freely spend on whatever I want and choose to support a game of my choice? Oh how terrible. (See, I can make this comment sound biased, too)

Aside from that though, the only thing I've bought is an accessories package, everything else I've got was just from playing the game. I know I'm the monority how doesn't care about the grind because I just do whatever and have fun with it, but just thought I'd voice my opinion. And yes, I happen to live an excellent life at the moment. 

Because "playing for fun" doesn't pair well with bad rewards. Yes, I find high-difficulty missions fun because of the rewards (yes, I had fun with sorties when I haven't gotten any of the rewards yet). Once you start getting R5 cores consistently in sorties AND high-time survivals (40m+ Survivals), it just makes people feel bad, being rewarded squat for doing something difficult.

 

11 minutes ago, -Judgement said:

You farm and it will come to you. Simple as that.

I wish I could say the same, but I couldn't, due to bad rewards and bad dilution. Getting cores consistently in T4 Survivals doesn't make the game any more appealing IMO. Yes, I tried the "take a break" thing, nothing happened.

 

9 minutes ago, Jonnyrobot said:

I don't always buy prime access or even the accessories. But when I saw what was coming out with vauban prime I saved my cash. I bought the vortex pack and have no regrets about it. 

For me it comes down to the prime access itself. It's a personal choice.

Now as for the drop rates aand required components. I can't speak to that.

Just emphasizes the gap between paying and non-paying players. Sure supporting the DEvs is fine, but putting things behind a huge wall isn't IMO.

 

9 minutes ago, Windspike said:

_{"No offense, but... *offensive term*."  Lol... people.}

 

Anyway though.  I keep seeing these threads, especially since yesterday, and I'm not sure I understand.  What's wrong with something dropping in rotation C of tier 3?  If I'm reading it right, your argument is that it's unfair to those that do not have as much time and/or money as others?

 

Um... that's life?

 

Why is it an issue that if you can't afford to buy it from DE you must grind to get it for free?

1. I wanna be sure, just in case the term offends anyone.

2. Because that pile is diluted, whole Rotations A and B are almost barebones.

3. Because I want to experience the new stuff as well. Yes I can wait, but with all this dilution, it'll take a long while before that happens. Even so, I could be unlucky by missing nitain alerts almost everyday, leading me to theoretically unable to build Vauban Prime. Yes, Ship Sabotage is an option, but with all that dilution?

 

9 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

Um...why weren't people grabbing nitain alerts whenever they can? When I see one in my playtime I make sure to grab it so I have a nice stock tucked away.

And for the resource grind I pace it into small portions everyday. I farm vauban and farm a little resource so that by the time I get him I'll have everything ready.

Because not everyone is lucky with seeing nitain alerts when they get the time to play the game, seeing as those alerts last less than an hour and pop up randomly without a schedule. Also, not everyone has mobile data to alert them of a nitain alert (if they are in a no wifi/internet zone).

 

6 minutes ago, S0V3REiGN said:

Unfortunately the game just can't be free to play and easy to acquire things. DE has to pay the bills so they need someone to buy their over priced content (no Sugatra and Syandana is worth $50) but I buy it because I like supporting the game.

You answered it yourself. You don't need bad, weighted RNG to make people pay for the game. Some players are willing to shell out dosh for cosmetics and some PA because they support the DEvs.

2 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

People who don't have time to play because of life/work, but still want the latest bells and whistles pay to get it.

People who play the game a lot are able to not pay and just get by through grind, but for free.

Now, people who don't want to pay or grind are asking for newest stuff to be handed to them on a silver platter week 1.(remember that each PA is like ~1.5 month's worth of content, the other 1.5 month are the alerts, random frame and an event or something).

 

People just don't have the patience and want everything now and easy, then they moan of the forums about being bored and lack of content.

Why is it such a huge problem for you people to take your time with the game and enjoy it ? Treat every fresh PA as a long-ish goal to strive towards and incentive to login and play. Why is it a problem ?

I don't recall wanting every new stuff handed down to me on a silver platter. Some do, but I can wait

[p3z1]

1 minute ago, Madho said:

Ninjas play free.

All that hidden fineprint in that one line.

[Dobroazur]

I'm a relatively new player and i honestly fail to see the issue.

Grinding is the core of this game, everything is built around the concept of completing missions and killing dudes to get loot, and i already find it very easy to get as it is. Do you really need Vauban prime here and now? It isn't going to be vaulted any time soon and even if it takes 3 or 4 months for an occasional player to accumulate 7000 Oxium, where is the problem? You'll still get it eventually and you have a lot of other frames to play with, including normal Vauban.

If you had nothing to grind for, what would you do in this game? Probably just get bored as hell.
Sure, the combat in the game is fun and awesome, but it's not enough to keep people entertained for long, so you need a goal, and that goal is acquiring rare items that require a lot of time to get.

How many people were around when Loki prime was released, cared about it, and still failed to build him in time? I don't think there are any, they had two years.
Yeah, I'll not be able to get Frost prime because i wasn't around when it got unvaulted, but again, so what? I have normal Frost, it is just as good and i'll get the prime in two or three years when it gets unvaulted again, if i'll still play.

In my eyes, Warframe can't be anything else than this, it is built from the ground up to be a grind for items and you either embrace it or not. The only way to move the focus away from the grind would be to scrap the game and make a new one.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Dobroazur

[Rebellis]

There are two types of games.

Those in which you can unlock everything and keep playing - never getting bored. This is because the game isn't so much about grinding or obtaining, it's about playing. Examples of this type of game are Battlefield and Planetside 2 among others.

Then there are games in which the developers feel as though if a player did unlock everything, they would stop playing. That's because grinding and obtaining is really all there is to do in these types of games. So, grindwalls are put in place to prolong your playtime with the option to pay real money to shorten the time to obtain whatever it was you were grinding for. An example being Warframe.

[Kinetos]

What gap? Only Founder stuff is unobtainable. If anything, the "gap" gets smaller every time new gear comes out, no matter what it is. 

[KiteoHatto]

1 minute ago, p3z1 said:

I don't recall wanting every new stuff handed down to me on a silver platter. Some do, but I can wait

Yet you made a thread about gap segregation between paying players and non paying ?

It's not a problem, non paying players are just too impatient, they expect to bypass paying advantages without working on it much in game.

[XenoFant]

Just now, KinetosImpetus said:

What gap? Only Founder stuff is unobtainable. If anything, the "gap" gets smaller every time new gear comes out, no matter what it is. 

The gap mostly concerns the effort of time. People who pay, have instant access, while people who don't crush their own mind trying to beat the RNG, for weeks.

[Kaotyke]

I dont care. I will get Vauban Prime eventually, maybe not next month or till the next Prime comes, I havent even gotten the Spira Prime or the Kavasa Colar. Its not as if I'm in the "I. NEED. IT!!!" crowd, those who farm non-stop will get the Prime faster than others but they WILL be completely burned out by the end of it and get out of the game for a time after they get everything they want because "they have nothing else to do".

I envy new players in that aspect, they do whatever they want and have a ton of things to do/get in the game and not only just 1 thing like "old" players that waste themselves away in trying to get it.

I've been saying this for a long time: "I've learned my lesson after farming Nova in U9 for 11 hours straight and had to stay away from the game for a few weeks after I finnaly got her: never again."

Edited May 18, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[bejuizb]

43 minutes ago, polarity said:

The amount of time you have to play is entirely down to your life choices.  Responsible adults accept the consequences of their choices, including giving up some things in favor of others.

So those who have trouble playing the video game for a long amount of time deserve no semblance of progress or fun towards their goals? Screwing the casual community over and over for years does absolutely nothing to benefit your game. I'm not asking to be showered in rewards. Keep the damnable grind, it's the lifeblood of this game. But at least make it subtle and easy to go over. 

[SquareSnail]

1 minute ago, KinetosImpetus said:

What gap?

Clearly overpriced Prime Access, and the amount of time you have to spend on it through other means.

[KiteoHatto]

1 minute ago, KinetosImpetus said:

What gap? Only Founder stuff is unobtainable. If anything, the "gap" gets smaller every time new gear comes out, no matter what it is. 

Also this. The more resources that can't be bought via platinum we have the more fair this game gets.

Granted, DE could have implemented the "How to aquire" a little better, but its the first thing they've done(timed alert based) and they are probably just testing the waters.

[XenoFant]

1 minute ago, kiteohatto said:

Yet you made a thread about gap segregation between paying players and non paying ?

It's not a problem, non paying players are just too impatient, they expect to bypass paying advantages without working on it much in game.

And why are they impatient? Because you farm one fricking part for two weeks and still don't get it. Don't tell me you wouldn't get upset, wasting materials and time for nothing.

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

If  you don't have time to play  warframe, a game about grinding, then you need to accept that  you will take longer than those who do. the fragor has a 1/5  chance to drop, it will now be that thing you hate getting from  t3 defense, with every prime access the previous frames get  easier to farm.  Ash chassis and systems are a realistic goal now. Nyx stuff was rare when she was first released.  And let's be honest the farm has always been this bad, I am a 2.5 year veeteran and the game has ALWAYS been about this insane grind.

The 'Baro shop theory', where we get a certain allowance of duckies based on how many  missions we complete, and then we turned that into the prime parts we wanted, Is enormously flawed.   That hurts the game's agency and theme, I'm not covering one of my own so he can try and find the best S#&$ he can down elsewhere in the ship, I am now a distraction so he can scrape up the gold nuggies from the floor of the basement.  It removes the immense positive feeling of getting the part you needed after your clan mate told you "Sacrificing a goat won't work. How does this bullS#&$ get spread?" The current systems random number generator unites the players against a far greater threat, the Random Number God. You turn a Badass space loot hunter working to get stronger so he can help his guide, the one who saved him from who he was and allowed him to use hhis  power in this new way, you turn that guy into, mommie's little space hunter, "what's that you didn't get what you wanted, why not see if we can trade that for a different piece of candy?". 

[chaotea]

Well, as a Grandmaster founder, and someone who has bought every single prime access, im definitely in the P2P section.

I understand the reasoning here from DE. The idea is that they have made a game where you can stockpile large amounts of resourses then as soon as something new comes out you can make it with no issues. The problem is that not everyone is hardcorely playing warframe. Hell, ive payed so much for plat, but i dont play it all the time.

It isnt so much that DE are deliberatly widening the gap for F2P and P2P people. Its more that they are (understandably) in the mindset of someone who plays the game all the time, and so might not get the perspective of the casual player. But then should they? Who would you design your game around? The people (like myself) who play it now and then, or the people who dedicate alot of time to the game.

The problem is there is both pros and cons to either the higher or lower prices on resources and drop frequencies dependent of how you play.

[KiteoHatto]

5 minutes ago, XenoFant said:

And why are they impatient? Because you farm one fricking part for two weeks and still don't get it. Don't tell me you wouldn't get upset, wasting materials and time for nothing.

So you would rather spend 2 whole weeks running the same nodes for a drop than say.....play the game the fun way(your idea of fun) and just sell other drops for plat and then trade someone for the parts you are missing, especially that in 2 weeks the prices will get lower and then lower and lower still.

Farm smart, not hard.

 

What do you mean wasting materials for nothing ?

Is crafting success RNG based now ?

Edited May 18, 2016 by kiteohatto

[Nijyumensou]

13 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

You answered it yourself. You don't need bad, weighted RNG to make people pay for the game. Some players are willing to shell out dosh for cosmetics and some PA because they support the DEvs.

Clearly, those are the diminishing minority. Not sure if you understand how much cost a company needs to operate on because it will close down within a week if they are wholly depending on them. 

[p3z1]

10 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

What gap? Only Founder stuff is unobtainable. If anything, the "gap" gets smaller every time new gear comes out, no matter what it is. 

I can safely say that a portion of the player base (ignoring newbies, sorry) don't have the nitain to build vauban prime, nor do they have the luck of the irish to get them nitain every time they get to play the game (maybe a minimum of one per week).

 

10 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

Yet you made a thread about gap segregation between paying players and non paying ?

It's not a problem, non paying players are just too impatient, they expect to bypass paying advantages without working on it much in game.

There is no problem with grinding for me. The problem is bad dilution (compare Rot A rotating twice with minimal stuff versus Rot C rotating once and being dilute af) and alertium, which doesn't stay for long and is unpredictable and unreliable, requiring a source of internet connection (for the alert app) just to track them.

 

9 minutes ago, Venom-Snake said:

I dont care. I will get Vauban Prime eventually, maybe not next month or till the next Prime comes, I havent even gotten the Spira Prime or the Kavasa Colar. Its not as if I'm in the "I. NEED. IT!!!" crowd, those who farm non-stop will get the Prime faster than others but they WILL be completely burned out by the end of it and get out of the game for a time after they get everything they want because "they have nothing else to do".

I envy new players in that aspect, they do whatever they want and have a ton of things to do/get in the game and not only just 1 thing like "old" players that waste themselves away in trying to get it.

I've been saying this for a long time: "I've learned my lesson after farming Nova in U9 for 11 hours straight and had to stay away from the game for a few weeks after I finnaly got her: never again."

How coincidental, I don't own both as well...

Back on topic, combined with bad dilution/distribution, and the need for a resource that is time limited, getting said frame will take a long time (and impossible if you are born on a Friday the 13th).

 

7 minutes ago, kiteohatto said:

Also this. The more resources that can't be bought via platinum we have the more fair this game gets.

Granted, DE could have implemented the "How to aquire" a little better, but its the first thing they've done(timed alert based) and they are probably just testing the waters.

Not exactly fair, if you ask me. Again, not everyone has the time to camp alerts 24/7.

 

6 minutes ago, RoboticApplesWithLasers said:

If  you don't have time to play  warframe, a game about grinding, then you need to accept that  you will take longer than those who do. the fragor has a 1/5  chance to drop, it will now be that thing you hate getting from  t3 defense, with every prime access the previous frames get  easier to farm.  Ash chassis and systems are a realistic goal now. Nyx stuff was rare when she was first released.  And let's be honest the farm has always been this bad, I am a 2.5 year veeteran and the game has ALWAYS been about this insane grind.

I "lived" longer than you in the game (ever since U8). My gripe, again, is bad dilution and alertium, 2 things still not addressed if you ask me. Alertium alerts don't stay long, and Rotation C is over-diluted, while Rotation A and B are almost empty, while they can still vault for reasons unknown. I mean, they could ease down on the grind, but that's kinda far-fetch'd.