Allowing low level players to high level content is a good idea.

[Get_Singed]

6 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

That Warframe doesn't penalize the player, and their 6 Forma weapon can actually HIT the target. So he's QUALIFIED to play.

Think you can do the same in WoW??? lololol

So, if MR4s and level 20 weapons can shoot the target, and there's no gate at the door ... it's designed for anyone to enter that door to play.

Play the game as it's intended. Not try to carve a niche where the niche DOESN'T exist.

If DE wants it hard and with gates, they'll do just that.

In what world does a TYPICAL low MR player have a 6 forma weapon?

This isn't a discussion about whether or not gates exist in this game. That's not the point of this thread. It's about whether or not gates SHOULD exist. And yes, they should. Because an unmodded unformad unpotatoed pea shooter won't damage Sortie enemies. Sure, it can hit them. That's entirely possible. But that 1 damage per bullet will mean nothing, and they will be downed over and over and over and the players who have to do the carrying will be stuck reviving that low MR player all game. THAT is why gates SHOULD exist for high level content.

[xxswatelitexx]

On 5/22/2016 at 4:33 PM, OverlordMcGeek said:

This is in respond to a challenge that you will find with the link.

I trust low MR not only to revive others while I facetank the damage but to use their abilities as they are instructed. I enjoy PUG's especially now that I have limbo for spy's to teach them the only proper way to do vaults. Also with how to take the only proper way of doing rescues to not waste time hacking the large door and going from below.

This gives new players a chance to also level their gear in a way as fast as Draco without the monotone that comes with it.

 

The last 20 sorties - with MR 15+ players. I am so far the only person I have seen take the side door for rescue missions. 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

20 minutes ago, MR_CATRA said:

if i dont have enough firepower i will try to support the team for sure :) 

There was a guild of level 1s that could out play level 90s. Twinks that maxed out their toons, but their actual skill was higher than most high levels. They literally ran circles around the high levels, and brought them down by passives and other tricks.

That level of game play isn't the norm, but it's fun.

Just like taking the average PuG with low DPS, little gear, and not knowing the fights and going from this...

Too this as a "challenge" via adapting to the mechanics and proving that it not only sucks even beatable by their own standards (healed it all the way to the enrage timer [group didn't have enough DPS, and I was healing at raid level of 10k HPS to keep them alive [it wasn't mana that was the issue, it was skill in WotLK])...

Real skill is often not what folks ask, though (the real skill guys go out and prove it). They want swag to brag about, not true skill. They want fast runs, instead. Most of those perfect groups are about carrying, and carrying never was about skill. Those who have to carry those groups even get tired of the braggards bragging about "skill", when others are doing the actual work.

Doesn't matter what game, it's the mindset that is the disease.

Got what it takes prove it. Not make barriers to claim you're good and can't prove it with NON-OPTIMAL groups!

 

[KIREEK]

I don't think content that can't be done by new players be recomended to new players, there is time for every mission in the game.

I noticed OP used MR as a replacement for competence, that alone tells me everything. If a new player is the same as low MR then op still has a few things to learn and i won't be the one to teach him.

Any MR player should be allowed to do sorties, providing they can do them.

Edited May 26, 2016 by KIREEK

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

15 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

I don't think content that can't be done by new players be recomended to new players, there is time for every mission in the game.

I noticed OP used MR as a replacement for competence, that alone tells me everything. If a new player is the same as low MR then op still has a few things to learn and i won't be the one to teach him.

Any MR player should be allowed to do sorties, providing they can do them.

I'll take a lowbie if they can keep up or willing to learn and prove him/herself (they earn their keep), over any high level who's AFK; or a raging screaming control freak (who can have time to yell in chat and not doing his job, thus failing the group for his ego), any day.

If I see a group more talking than doing, I KNOW that group is going to fail (and find somewhere safe before they wipe and worse!).

[(PSN)bonateIIo]

2 hours ago, MR_CATRA said:

well i can handle any kind of sortie

if i dont have enough firepower i will try to support the team for sure :) 

You did very good, and I apologize if I was a bit assholish with my previous post. See I have 0 expectation from others in any mission and seeing low MR actually supporting you in any sortie is beyond rare. How many excals I saw that never used their blind and were just running with their EB that wasn't killing anything, and if you ask them nicely they still won't support the team. Yes the squad only needs 1 damage dealer to succeed and thats what I'm doing most of the time and their help is never really needed but they can still put some effort into the game that hopefully both of us enjoy. I am pretty sure you know you have the best frame(Ivara, my favorite frame in terms of looks and balance, it was a very good choice whether you bought it or farmed it :) ) to support the team with endless possibilities and kill any lvl enemy if melee(covert) is allowed. So you might be one of the rare ones that I haven't come across yet, that know how to use their frame and be helpful.

Seeing how you play make the requirement even more silly(I forgot about the 2 things that can be beyond useful in sorties Ivara and Covert, and quite a few other things). Walling player like you would be beyond stupid, but for every player that is as good as you there are 50 that have no idea that mag, excal, ember can be very useful as support and only want the reward at the end of the mission.

So some sort of wall needs to exist, but to make it fair would be very difficult.

Edited May 27, 2016 by (PS4)bonateIIo

[MagPrime]

DR should improve matchmaking and increase Sortie team sizes to 6.

As long as someone actually takes the time to use the system, problem solved.

Elitists don't have to worry about a barely relevant number and everyone else can go on with their lives.

[Reifnir]

7 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

I'll take a lowbie if they can keep up or willing to learn and prove him/herself (they earn their keep), over any high level who's AFK;

The thing is, most of them can't keep up at all. Not because they're stupid, mind you - but because they are most likely undergeared, and unless they studied every page of the wiki, they don't even know what they're up against and how to counter it.

Which element type has bonuses against this particular armor type? What does "use air support the moment prisoner death timer appears!" mean? Why it's a bad idea to enter Defense sorties as a low-power range Frost and cover the area in multiple globes the rest of the team can't shoot through? Oh, and how does that other Frost blow up his own globes when relocating? Those are all good questions, but there's a fundamental problem here:

Sortie is NOT the time to ask them. It's a test of your skill. Most likely, by the time you finish typing "Oh, hi guys, is there anything I should know before starting this mission?" you'll have died and compromised the mission (not necessarily in that order). 

IMO, the best thing is to DISABLE the Public option for Sorties completely, like with Void. At least in that case, if a MR4 player answers the recruiting message, you could ask him what frame/weapon/mods he has and *politely* refuse (or agree to carry if you want) instead of having to deal with the fact upon entry. 

 

well i can handle any kind of sortie

 

Ivara at MR4? Most MR4 players don't even know she exists. Energy Siphon, Corrosive Projection, Primed Flow and ~2mil credits? You have either farmed extensively without leveling MR fodder or have been carried. Overextended, Buzz Kill? Yeah, right. 

I'm sorry, but you're at pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum from your common lowbie. 

And nobody said MR4 cannot, under any circumstances perform adequately in a sortie. It's just the chance of this happening is on par with getting all Vauban Prime parts drop from void runs in the space of one hour. 

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, Reifnir said:

Ivara at MR4? Most MR4 players don't even know she exists. Energy Siphon, Corrosive Projection, Primed Flow and ~2mil credits? You have either farmed extensively without leveling MR fodder or have been carried. Overextended, Buzz Kill? Yeah, right. 

I'm sorry, but you're at pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum from your common lowbie. 

And nobody said MR4 cannot, under any circumstances perform adequately in a sortie. It's just the chance of this happening is on par with getting all Vauban Prime parts drop from void runs in the space of one hour. 

It is rare,but not as impossible as you may be thinking.  I had my Ivara before MR 4.  All it takes is for the player to have done a bit of research and then play the hell out of their chosen frame to really learn it.  I took a low MR Ivara (without any of the mods you mentioned) in a sortie a good while back.  Didn't do too badly especially since it was my first one at the time.  I also think I was lucky because of the mission type and the party with me.  

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by DatDarkOne
grammar

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

1 hour ago, Reifnir said:

The thing is, most of them can't keep up at all. Not because they're stupid, mind you - but because they are most likely undergeared, and unless they studied every page of the wiki, they don't even know what they're up against and how to counter it.

Which element type has bonuses against this particular armor type? What does "use air support the moment prisoner death timer appears!" mean? Why it's a bad idea to enter Defense sorties as a low-power range Frost and cover the area in multiple globes the rest of the team can't shoot through? Oh, and how does that other Frost blow up his own globes when relocating? Those are all good questions, but there's a fundamental problem here:

Sortie is NOT the time to ask them. It's a test of your skill. Most likely, by the time you finish typing "Oh, hi guys, is there anything I should know before starting this mission?" you'll have died and compromised the mission (not necessarily in that order). IMO, the best thing is to DISABLE the Public option for Sorties completely, like with Void. At least in that case, if a MR4 player answers the recruiting message, you could ask him what frame/weapon/mods he has and *politely* refuse (or agree to carry if you want) instead of having to deal with the fact upon entry. 

If they're a RPGer, one night of reading is enough understanding of builds and what's what about them. The game doesn't have 53 abilities and buffs like EQII did ... only 4. It doesn't require understanding roles. It doesn't require enchants; gems; reforging; or learning how to use vehicles. It doesn't require a boatload of addons because content has been tuned to those addons!

It's an action shooter with some RPG elements. A tad more complex than a CoD/Battlefield, but doesn't require the learning curve of a traditional MMO or MuD (which takes weeks to understand per sub-class and role).

BTW, how did you learn how to do sorties? Most gamers learn by trying. Got to get those feet wet!

[Reifnir]

21 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

The game doesn't have 53 abilities and buffs like EQII did ... only 4.

As a matter of fact, the game has 116 abilities spread around 29 warframes (not counting the primes), ~250 weapons of all kinds, 5 different Focus schools and almost a hundred different Augment Mods, some of which are essential to certain builds. Not to mention some of the less common mods that may heavily influence the outcome of any fight. 

Sorties often require you to carefully choose the optimal combination out of that mass of frames, weapons and mods - and to learn how to play it, too. Not all of them, sure - an "Extreme Cold/Fire Exterminate" is a breeze that can be done by pretty much anyone, but sometimes a Sortie can take you to hell and back again - recent magnetically-enhanced Hyena Pack assassination or perhaps a Pistol Only Corpus Defense to name a few "cheesy" ones.

39 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

one night of reading is enough understanding of builds and what's what about them.

And how many more nights to put theory to practice? Knowing that multi-forma Vaykor Hek with Primed Point Blank and Primed Ravage is a good shotgun is one thing. Obtaining that weapon and those mods is another ordeal entirely. 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

25 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

As a matter of fact, the game has 116 abilities spread around 29 warframes

I'm talking ONE class: 53 abilities and buffs. EQII when I played had 22 classes ... you specialized in a role!

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Kevyne_Kicklighter