Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Data-Zero]

I find magnetize MEH compared to old bullet attractor

Polarize needs % damage and look less like it had lessons from Nova.

Pull wasn't changed.

Crush still takes long as hell to cast. Asteroid hitting mission tile will arrive faster

[Death_Master_]

1 hour ago, malekas said:

The sortie I ran today says otherwise. Lvl 100 Grineer interception, I had top damage and kills. I took Dex Sybaris, Dual Toxocyst, and Redeemer. So no Tonkor, Vaykor Hek, or Lex Prime.

 

Now, to be fair, I also had top damage taken and deaths. Mag has no way to survive anything. Shield Transference needs a serious rework to go along with the new Polarize.

Even if top damage it wasn't fast enough killing to avoid get killed too many times.

And at lv100+ lot of enemies can one-shot frame that sacrifices health/shield boosts for abilities boost(if frame isnt protected by some abilities like Rhino skin or Frost globe or Volt shields and so on).

Before rework: against corpus units Mag could use Polarize skill before they shoot her down wiping most of enemies(but not all so it was not "press a button and win" but clearing out enough space to survive attack) out.

[xmegarockx]

traying to moding her playing with her i ending hating her sadly one frame i wont use anymore.

[Xadrezian]

I've never built Mag or Mag Prime, I think I am missing her systems. I want to know, over all, is she even worth building anymore?

[Death_Master_]

1 minute ago, Xadrezian said:

I've never built Mag or Mag Prime, I think I am missing her systems. I want to know, over all, is she even worth building anymore?

Sure! Like other build-rank-forget frames it can give you mastery rank Exp.

And if you have spare slot for her - let her rest there until she will have good buffs and shine again.

[Archwizard]

So, few things with the rework:

Pull was "left alone" - which is a small problem, since it still flings enemies around wildly. While its actual direction has been improved over the years, it still suffers from the fact that I can't control where enemies end up, usually flinging them over a ledge behind me. I rather miss the days when you could pull a crowd to your feet and finish them en masse, or stand behind a crate and repeatedly bash enemies into it on their way to you; now they just bounce straight up into the air and land on top of the crate.

Magnetize is actually pretty fun and great, everything Bullet Attractor should've been. The big issue is apparently that it can cause damage to the Mag, which shouldn't exist under any circumstances. Sounds like a bug to me, though.

Polarize is... somewhat disappointing. You told us all about the changes you were going to make, including adding travel time and bumping it back a slot (implying an increase to its cost, at least to me)... but then you stealth-nerfed the damage that these changes were trying to justify. I'm not too bitter about this - the Corpus Genocide button was undeniably overpowered - but it is disappointing that a scaling function was actually removed from the game. I'll grant that the (yet unspecified) coming changes to enemy scaling on the Bourbon List may alleviate fears about flat damage once scaling flattens out... but in Polarize's case, its specific contribution was that it eliminated shields as a concern, and now all it does is a set amount of damage to a select few enemy types, which really makes it no better than Crush (except that it restores a self-regenerating barrier a few seconds faster).
However, upon some consideration, it dawned on me: Now that the effect no longer scales based on the target's shields, it's no longer weakened by Magnetic procs (which was always an odd facet for a Magnetic-based Warframe). I think the only change Polarize needs is an extended, guaranteed Magnetic proc on all enemies hit by the wave, and ignorance of the proc for the purposes of calculating damage. This will return a scaling function to the ability without making it overpowered, and amplify the effects of all of her other powers to boot.

Crush still has the same issues as always: Once damage falls off, it's just a knockdown. It needs a new function to aid in Mag's kit. (For instance, if it compacted all enemies damaged by the effect into one locus, and dealt damage for each enemy grouped by the effect.)

Her passive is... neat, I guess? It just exacerbates the issue that players have with Carrier though - if this effect is uniquely attached to Mag, it stands to reason that other Warframes won't receive any extensions to their pickup radii. It would be a better use of the slot to have it play with her Shields instead (increased Overshield capacity?), and consider ways to extend pickup radii for all players without needing a non-combat companion. Besides, it makes Greedy Pull somewhat pointless.

Magnetic damage needs some revision, just so it isn't completely Corpus-centric. The damage is only effective against shields, the proc is only effective against shields - it's really no wonder why Mag was an anti-Corpus goddess but weak to everything else.
The damage should be more effective against Ferrite Armor - since Ferrite, Iron, is ferromagnetic by definition - but weakened against some Flesh types instead. Maybe give it a bonus effect against Mutalists.
Procs should debilitate enemies of all factions as much as it does Warframes. Perhaps if it prevented enemies from casting abilities while it was active (to simulate sapping our energy), or severely reduced their accuracy (to simulate scrambling the HUD)? Or maybe just gave us energy each time an enemy was afflicted...

Edited June 1, 2016 by Archwizard

[Entropy11]

Much has been said already, but here goes.

I used mag as one of my mains. Any corpus mission, Mag would be my first choice.

Old mag: Anti-corpus nukeframe specialist. Possibly the most specialized warframe in the game. No reason to take her on other missions except for the occasional Bullet Attractor anti-boss cheese, and then only for bosses without invul phases, but easily viable through endgame vs Corpus or Corrupted. Anything with a shield drone nearby is totally boned.

New mag: Utility greatly increased against Grineer and Infested. At what cost, though? Polarize costing 50% more along with it no longer nuking anything is a huge hit to her power. We still don't know what good builds are, because how her powers work, it's pretty confusing.

Pull: Mostly unchanged. Energy orb spawning is a straight buff and could lend to easy Energy Conversion builds. Good show.

Magnetize: Again a straight buff from Bullet Attractor, though its default duration is maybe a bit long now, considering the changed mechanics. Note: Magnetize causing self-nuking is a big problem and NEEDS TO BE FIXED. I shouldn't be afraid to walk into my magnetize bubbles, especially since DE seems to expect me to spam them everywhere.

Polarize: Where do I start? Non-scaling damage that becomes trivial vs level 40 and higher enemies. It was Mags only scaling ability, and as has been made clear over the last 3 years, frames without a scaling ability are irrelevant to high level play. The energy cost.. It's like nobody considered that Mag's energy economy is now wrecked, instead of spamming 1 and 2 and the occasional 4, Mag is now a straight up squishy caster frame (She may need help with survivability now too) and using 1 2 and 3 constantly. She does not have the energy to support this gameplay.

Crush: I can't really find a difference here.

Not saying this isn't viable, but a few tweaks can help this a lot.

Magnetize: Just fix the self-damage, and stop pulling in shots that don't actually cross the event horizon of the bubble.

Polarize: This needs to scale to be viable. Period.

In general: Mag uses a LOT more energy than she did. She needs her economy reworked. Either decrease cost on a few abilities or expand her energy pool. I should not be scrounging for orbs with Primed Flow and Zenurik up. I don't have to do that with any other frame.

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Entropy11

[Lindsrhyl]

After some power tests:

200% str and 12% duration on Magnetize, a 4 shot S Tigris, Grineer Sortie 3.

It should have kicked massive asses, but the only &#! that suffered was mine: enemies inside the bubble received ticks of 23 dmg (25% of tigris shots actually deal more unless i'm wrong), and as it popped after the  target's death... nuffin'.

So unless i'm doing something wrong (and in this case feel free to correct me), there's some false advertising out there... (not like it would change my mag's behavior against the grineer but they did the same when they nerfed Gpull for the second time, i mean, bug it).

[Darkbringer92]

Mags, Magnetize is making Vauban/Vauban prime's Vortex stick on the map throughout the mission. Thought you all should know..

[CandlesShadow]

I must say I do like that Mag is no longer spam 2 to win, and I have gotten some feedback that her Magnetize is still effective against higher level enemies. Like all changes this will take some time to adjust to, but I do think her damage needs to be percentage based, not fixed.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

7 minutes ago, CandlesShadow said:

I must say I do like that Mag is no longer spam 2 to win, and I have gotten some feedback that her Magnetize is still effective against higher level enemies. Like all changes this will take some time to adjust to, but I do think her damage needs to be percentage based, not fixed.

You read. Play the frame for a long time and not just a Corpus killer -- it's not about adapting to the abilities changing, it's accepting that they switched frames (now imagine how angry folks get when their favorite frame is replaced by something totally different and not their play style. Like switching Loki players and forcing them to play as Vauban or Trinity ... it would suck).

[CandlesShadow]

2 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

You read. Play the frame for a long time and not just a Corpus killer -- it's not about adapting to the abilities changing, it's accepting that they switched frames (now imagine how angry folks get when their favorite frame is replaced by something totally different and not their play style. Like switching Loki players and forcing them to play as Vauban or Trinity ... it would suck).

I didn't just read, I tested for myself, and also got feedback from my clanmates (people who have been playing the game +2 to 3 years) I understand your frustration, as I used to be an avid Trinity player- she got changed from a healer to a walking battery.

[Data-Zero]

36 minutes ago, Lindsrhyl said:

After some power tests:

200% str and 12% duration on Magnetize, a 4 shot S Tigris, Grineer Sortie 3.

It should have kicked massive asses, but the only &#! that suffered was mine: enemies inside the bubble received ticks of 23 dmg (25% of tigris shots actually deal more unless i'm wrong), and as it popped after the  target's death... nuffin'.

So unless i'm doing something wrong (and in this case feel free to correct me), there's some false advertising out there... (not like it would change my mag's behavior against the grineer but they did the same when they nerfed Gpull for the second time, i mean, bug it).

There is.

Its called Lanka on Magnetize

Visit this topic to get some info

Link to my post about its power. Should clarify it a bit. Should read other posts as well. They have intresting bits of info.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Data-Zero

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

19 minutes ago, Data-Zero said:

There is.

Its called Lanka on Magnetize

Visit this topic to get some info

Gimmicks don't make a frame/class/role. That's something already pointed out earlier when it was mentioned. Magnetized is currently bugged, too.

[Data-Zero]

5 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Gimmicks don't make a frame/class/role. That's something already pointed out earlier when it was mentioned. Magnetized is currently bugged, too.

I thought that magnetize was bugged since the numbers i pulled with Lanka were kinda odd. Even for OP levels.

[Cezza]

I have to say that the new magnatize is nice there is no disputing that, but polarise has been nerfed so heavily that its ineffective against high level enemies unless they are in massive groups. in a test against 8 Lv80 crewmen in the simulacrum, 2 died and the remainder had full HP and half shields and now that the ability functions like nova's antimatter, recasting removes the first cast.

Another issue i have with the rework is that, now that you have to build duration to increase polarises range, it is much more difficult to build strength and efficiency without sacrificing your range(Duration) creating a similar situation to what Ember has, where if you dont have enough of each stat, your build wont be effective.

[MindHoney]

The way I play mag pre rework. 2 spam, 1 quick cc, sprinkling of 4 for team cc, and 3 mostly just to make shure my 3 keg dint pack up and leave my keyboard.

Mag post rework, use 2 almost aways, use 1 for a tuch of dmg, but mostly panic cc. Use 4 for team cc, and 3 as a joke. 

Am I the only one missing what the rework did?

[Versa]

2 minutes ago, MindHoney said:

The way I play mag pre rework. 2 spam, 1 quick cc, sprinkling of 4 for team cc, and 3 mostly just to make shure my 3 keg dint pack up and leave my keyboard.

Mag post rework, use 2 almost aways, use 1 for a tuch of dmg, but mostly panic cc. Use 4 for team cc, and 3 as a joke. 

Am I the only one missing what the rework did?

Nope you are missing nothing, she still needs to spam 2, regardless of what is currently her 2, to have any use. Magnetize comprises nearly ALL her damage and its a fixed value and depends on weapon to make any good use of it. In addition its her only reasonable survivability assuming you can properly hide from enemy fire in the bubble, which you cant always as the ability CAN KILL YOU. Her 3 is now entirely useless and can only waste energy past any reasonable enemy level. Her 1 and 4 are basically unchanged beyond a tiny damage buff that still doesnt allow them to do much.

[Roboplus]

The more I play with her the more her role seems to have shifted from damage to defense. Setting up multiple Magnetize fields, which enemies cannot fire out of, has been remarkably reliable. Couple that with Shield Transference and she does very well at surviving and aiding a team in mitigation.

Against Corpus.

We seem to have the same problem as before. I would let Mag give herself overshield by default and gain overshield on any enemy hit, instead of just against enemy shields. Then have Shield Transference give overshield to allies.

I'd say she could really use a higher overshield cap too.

Also, cannot stress this enough, her cast times are ridiculous. Natural Talent doesn't make them feel fast, it makes them feel normal. Trying to play her without it is like being cold proced during your casting animations.

[AgentScarlet]

Mag is (was?) my main frame and I was cautiously optimistic about this rework, but the more I play it, the more disappointed I feel.

Polarize is a downgrade from Shield Polarize. As a support power for restoring the shields of squadmates or defense targets, it has lost most of its utility as not only does it seem to restore a significantly smaller amount of allied shields, it takes too long for the pulse to reach. As a debuff and/or attack power, it's still viable at starchart levels, but apparently DE decided they didn't want it to remain useful at high levels and changed it from a percentage to a non-scaling flat value that quickly becomes insignificant. The added utility against Grineer would be useful if it were a percentage or at least applied to base armor, but as it is, it's irrelevant against low-level Grineer because they're weak enough that you don't need the debuff, and irrelevant against high-level Grineer because the fixed value is too small to make a meaningful difference. I'm pretty sure every other armor-stripping ability in the game does the job better than Polarize does.

Magnetize seems to be an upgrade from Bullet Attractor - but like Bullet Attractor, in practice its usefulness still seems to be highly situational and isn't practical most of the time. I really wish the bubble would explode in a timely manner upon enemy death instead of continuing to uselessly funnel bullets into the corpse (therefore preventing anyone from shooting still-living enemies within the bubble radius). An option to manually detonate would be ideal.

Crush is still a passably viable CC power (though inferior to other CC ults like Avalanche or Rhino Stomp), but I'm pretty disappointed that the old bugs are still there. Like the bug where it often fails to apply the lift/stun while applying the damage ticks, allowing the affected enemies to continue running around and shooting you in the face while you're locked into the needlessly long casting animation. Also, I'm still bitter that Rhino Stomp's stasis works through Ancient Healer auras while Crush doesn't so much as stagger when there's a Healer around. Can we have some consistency, please?

Another problem is that we're clearly intended to synergize Mag's mowers, yet her energy pool is insufficient to support spamming multiple powers in combination. She needs either an increased energy pool, reduced energy costs, or some other way to regain energy from casting. I mean, technically killing with Pull has a chance to drop extra energy, but really, how often is Pull actually going to kill anything at medium to high levels? This would make more sense if it were tied to one of her other abilities.

At least Pull is still a great inexpensive CC panic button, so there's that, I guess.

[Blazer-X]

Rundown feedback that no one will read because its past 10 pages and this isn't reddit where we can upvote anything, but here goes:

Pull: Minor, mostly inconsequential buff. But don't get me wrong, Pull was already plenty strong enough in its original state as a CC move, so no complaints there. Only real issue is, with the new passive, Greedy Pull just feels that much less useful, especially since it only affected the player herself.

Magnetize: Its supposed to be a buffed Bullet Attractor, and in many ways it is. Damage-wise, its a big buff. HOWEVER, instead of mitigating damage by standing next to it, Magnetize seems to concentrate self damage TO THE PLAYER when you stand inside it. I REALLY HOPE this is either a bug or a mechanic that will be patched out, because it really makes building it for range and duration hazardous to the player's survival.

Shield Polarize: Oh boy... where do I start? Like other players, I already had some fear of it being far less effective now that enemies no longer all explode at once, which reduces damage to enemies outside the initial range (due to how the closer enemies would damage their shields first). I also realized that I have to switch up my build now that duration was a thing, which obviously meant I had to give up a bit of min-max that I had on the previous meta. But at the time of the demonstration, I just kind of accepted that the old Shield Polarize was a bit too powerful, so some form of nerf was warranted...

But then you took out the scaling mechanic, which at no point did you mention when showcasing the ability. Now it went from SUPER MAP-WIDE CORPUS KILLER to just "meh damage, can restore shields". I was willing to settle for conditional AOE Shield Killer with the increased energy cost if all it's nerfed was the energy cost and the Nova MP-like spread, but this is going a little too far. Please, for the sake of your players, bring back the scaling mechanic. Its nerfed enough at its current state. In fact, if you want, bring back the old scaling, and move it up to the Ultimate (since Crush is kinda meh anyway).

Crush: Well... again, inconsequential buff. Need I say more?

Passive: As I've mentioned for Pull, it does kind of take out the need for Greedy Pull. The range is definitely a lot worse, but it comes free with the frame without using a mod slot or 9 mod points. And it lets you use anything not named Carrier and still get good returns on item drops. Definitely a plus. This is probably the one completely GOOD change to the frame.   

[Windy_Wind]

fixed damage for polarize is so far the most terrible thing that dev has ever come up with. It's like bringing mag from electricity age back to dinosaur age. Another saryn-like victim. 

[Alanbot]

Except Saryn's rework wasn't quite as broken as Mag. Saryn can still spam her first bread and butter ability for dmg, and Saryn prime got massive energy pool to address the increased spamming. Mag had nothing going for her after the nerf bomb. Her armor's low, casting time's slow, energy pool's still laughably low for a caster frame. On top of that, her abilities doesn't scale very well past lv40+ enemies, making spamming a must on her polarize. 

Yesterday I tested Mag in Corpus sorties (255 Str, 100 Dur, 100 Rng, 130 Eff)  and her polarize couldn't do a thing to corpus covered by shield ospreys. Magnetize is now Mag's new spam 2 to win ability, and Crush still failed to stay relevant in the long run except as panic button

Edited May 29, 2016 by Alanbot

[aerosoul1337]

Tried a lot of builds.

But...

She is quite energy thirsty now.

Edited May 29, 2016 by aerosoul1337

[deadriddle]

This is the first time i post this things and hope "DE"read this. I did spent lot of money buying plats and buy frames to enjoy this game. One of my favourites frames is mag because of Shield Polerized and NOW she is a complete S#&$ for me. DE give a buff to her other ability to mag but i think its a common sense if you nerf something on a frame you buff it with something. But i think this nerf is just too much, when i said too much is because i think DE does not give a good buff to change this nerf (only an orb from pull and bullet attractor which is i think a bad buff)(i tell you why its bad)

1 skill you pull and then what? (nothing) get orbs? This is not oberonnnnn DE and with zenurik i dont need energy orb for mag.

2 skill bullet attractor is totally S#&$ because you can only attract 1 enemies, 1 enemy.i dont need bullet attract to kill one enemy. (I also can do bullet attractor with zenurik)

3 skill now totally s*cks mag only reduced shield over duration which is "S*CKS".

4 skill is good for cc but d*mn even with natural talent and speed drift this ability still sluggish (i died lot of times before i done with casting)

Now you know why i said it s*ck in this new update.

For me trinity range nerf is bad but not as bad as this mag nerf.

Volt buff is also great i think.

In this update i only really2 sad about mag nerf because she is already weak. So why would you nerf it?