Wolfnrun Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Buttaface said: The Capacitance augment on discharge provides constant shield healing to the entire team, together with overshielding. A similar augment, Trinity's vampire leech, heals and adds overshields, but only after energy is full, so it is very difficult to keep overshielding and shield healing up on frames with toggled abilities on, as they do not benefit from augmented EV. Not so Capacitance, it heals all no matter what skills they are using or the state of their energy pool, making it much easier to overshield frames using toggles than VL. This healing, together with the powerful CC makes Capacitance max range Volt one of the best support frames in the game currently. Shields are diffrent compared to health, abilites truley are only benefical at lower levels and becomes a cheap CC the higher you go. I don't quite understand the claim. Also, due take into account that capacitance takes out a slot and there is a threshold at hand Edited June 22, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, Buttaface said: The Capacitance augment on discharge provides constant shield healing to the entire team, together with overshielding. A similar augment, Trinity's vampire leech, heals and adds overshields, but only after energy is full, so it is very difficult to keep overshielding and shield healing up on frames with toggled abilities on, as they do not benefit from augmented EV. Not so Capacitance, it heals all no matter what skills they are using or the state of their energy pool, making it much easier to overshield frames using toggles than VL. This healing, together with the powerful CC makes max range Capacitance Volt one of the better support frames in the game currently. Not to mention the support that Volt's 2 and 3 offer the team. New Volt has immense utility not just as a speed buffer and shield plopper any more. Sounds cool. I'm sure the new discharge interacts with the capacitance augment better, much more damage Havnt run it yet, and don't want to rain on your parade but that whole argument of volt being an awesome healer is questionable. Sheild polarize recieved a "change" that may have reduced the effectiveness of its sheild overage augment mod, but it was my experience that Sheild polarize was tons better at sheild healing than overload. Now the tables have been turned, which would allow Volt to pass Mag up as a healer. Also, with the nerf to 99%damage reduction from trinity, that would also mean people would possibly come around to seeing volt as a healer, but that's if sheild health is ever considered more valuable than flesh health. I can only imagine it makes a big difference when you aren't constantly bleeding everywhere... So, yeah, sheild overages are cool, but there were other frames who did it better, and volt only just climbed on top of the hill he will soon be knocked off of if history repeats itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttaface Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 32 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said: Shields are diffrent compared to health, abilites truley are only benefical at lower levels and becomes a cheap CC the higher you go. I don't quite understand the claim. Also, due take into account that capacitance takes out a slot and there is a threshold at hand Shields ARE "health," (on all but one frame) no debate possible. Yes, the shield and hitpoint components of character health deplete and regenerate differently, that doesn't change the fact that shields are a component of health in a basic, concrete sense free of game immersion conventions and terminology. You are mistaken about the "abilities truly are only beneficial at lower levels" part unless by "lower levels" you mean "up to level 60ish," and if by beneficial you mean "kill instantly" but I don't think you mean those things. Your bias is showing by choosing "cheap CC," what does that even mean? What CC wouldn't be "cheap CC?" I have played the build extensively in several game modes, it is extremely strong, and stand by my original claim that the Capacitance augmented Volt is one of the best support frames in the game currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Buttaface said: Shields ARE "health," (on all but one frame) no debate possible. Yes, the shield and hitpoint components of character health deplete and regenerate differently, that doesn't change the fact that shields are a component of health in a basic, concrete sense free of game immersion conventions and terminology. You are mistaken about the "abilities truly are only beneficial at lower levels" part unless by "lower levels" you mean "up to level 60ish," and if by beneficial you mean "kill instantly" but I don't think you mean those things. Your bias is showing by choosing "cheap CC," what does that even mean? What CC wouldn't be "cheap CC?" I have played the build extensively in several game modes, it is extremely strong, and stand by my original claim that the Capacitance augmented Volt is one of the best support frames in the game currently. Shields are not health, they protect health... and no I don't mean "Kil instantly" I mean they wear off to fast and even faster the farther out you go Also Volt ≠ Support Edited June 22, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttaface Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 7 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said: Shields are not health, they protect health... and no I don't mean "Kil instantly" I mean they wear off to fast and even faster the farther out you go You are confusing terms used in the game for immersion with the concrete reality of how the game works. Again, shields ARE health, there is no debate possible. But believe whatever thing makes you happy. Your second comment leads me to believe you haven't played Volt much after the rework, or are not building it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Buttaface said: You are confusing terms used in the game for immersion with the concrete reality of how the game works. Again, shields ARE health, there is no debate possible. But believe whatever thing makes you happy. Your second comment leads me to believe you haven't played Volt much after the rework, or are not building it correctly. No, that's definatly not true! Also, Why do you think the new ultimate does more damage then prior? It is about damage and CC not primarly support Edited June 22, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Buttaface said: You are confusing terms used in the game for immersion with the concrete reality of how the game works. Again, shields ARE health, there is no debate possible. But believe whatever thing makes you happy. Your second comment leads me to believe you haven't played Volt much after the rework, or are not building it correctly. When your health is gone, you die. That's been the basic truth of video games since before I was even thought of. Your sheilds can be completely gone, and scrambled by magnetic damage, but you won't die. I'm not sure what part of your argument we are missing, but sheilds don't help bleed procs. Sheilds simply give some little extra damage mitigation away from your actual health. Sheilds protect your health (and don't do a very good job sometimes). Tell a toxic ancient that sheilds are health. Tell them that. Please, help me understand what you are really trying to say because it just doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttaface Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) All character based games like Warframe are essentially GUIs with different features depending on the "character" being used (or location, or many other factors). One near universal feature of such GUIs is a -health bar-. Now the game may call it "shields" or "health" or "armor" or whatever for immersion purposes. The game may have different kinds of health, like Warframe, that deplete, regenerate, and are healed in different ways... for immersion purposes. Yet in a very concrete way, those are ALL HEALTH. If it's on the bar, and must be depleted before you die, IT'S... HEALTH. I am truly sorry this very basic characteristic of many games has eluded you to date, but more sorry that you are continuing to try to debate it. Edited June 22, 2016 by Buttaface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylvenStar Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Buttaface said: All character based games like Warframe are essentially GUIs with different features depending on the "character" being used. One near universal feature of such GUIs is a -health bar-. Now the game may call it "shields" or "health" or "armor" or whatever for immersion purposes. The game may have different kinds of health, like Warframe, that deplete, regenerate, and are healed in different ways... for immersion purposes. Yet in a very concrete way, those are ALL HEALTH. If it's one the bar, and must be depleted before you die, IT'S... HEALTH. I am truly sorry this very basic characteristic of many games has eluded you to date, but more sorry that you are continuing to try to debate it. Having actually taken courses in GUI and game design, I'm going to disagree as politely as I can, given how toxic you're being to everyone. No, Shields do not qualify as "Health." They would qualify as "Armor," actually, which is an additional value that under standard circumstances (Ex. Not toxin damage or bleed procs), has its value reduced before the health value does. Armor in this game is just a defense stat that's named armor, if you really want to get that technical about it. Disclaimer: I seriously doubt that these are the actual names, as these terms aren't actual things in GUI. They're simply referred to as "Counters." Game terms are used on a game by game basis, so stop arguing over something so pointless. FOCUS. We're trying to accomplish things here. Edited June 22, 2016 by SylvenStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Buttaface said: All character based games like Warframe are essentially GUIs with different features depending on the "character" being used. One near universal feature of such GUIs is a -health bar-. Now the game may call it "shields" or "health" or "armor" or whatever for immersion purposes. The game may have different kinds of health, like Warframe, that deplete, regenerate, and are healed in different ways... for immersion purposes. Yet in a very concrete way, those are ALL HEALTH. If it's on the bar, and must be depleted before you die, IT'S... HEALTH. I am truly sorry this very basic characteristic of many games has eluded you to date, but more sorry that you are continuing to try to debate it. Correct. Outside of Toxin and Finisher damage, shields act as extra hit points that are unaffected by armor in return for regenerating rapidly. I find that when using both Guardian and the new Medi Ray sentinel precepts, I almost never need to heal with pads or life strike anymore, even in Sorties in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, Buttaface said: If it's on the bar, and must be depleted before you die, IT'S... HEALTH. I am truly sorry this very basic characteristic of many games has eluded you to date, but more sorry that you are continuing to try to debate it. I don't need my shields to be depleted for me to get downed... 1 minute ago, SylvenStar said: Having actually taken courses in GUI and game design, I'm going to disagree as politely as I can, given how toxic you're being to everyone. No, Shields do not qualify as "Health." They would qualify as "Armor," actually, which is an additional value that under standard circumstances (Ex. Not toxin damage or bleed procs), has its value reduced before the health value does. Armor in this game is just a defense stat that's named armor, if you really want to get that technical about it. Disclaimer: I seriously doubt that these are the actual names, as these terms aren't actual things in GUI. They're simply referred to as "Counters." Game terms are used on a game by game focus, so stop arguing over something so pointless. FOCUS. We're trying to accomplish things here. ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said: I don't need my shields to be depleted for me to get downed... Only in the case of Toxin and Finisher damage, which ignore standard conventions when it comes to shields. Toxin damage is very rare (and easily avoidable except in the case of massed Mutualist Ospreys,) and Slash procs are typically not very powerful. Most status effect damage can reduced to negligible or near-negligible levels by rolling, and the Slash procs inflicted by Elite Lancers are no exception, even in Sorties. Edited June 22, 2016 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 42 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said: Volt ≠ Support um... what? he potentially provides the team with: 1. speed, most famously 2. protection via shields 3. CC & shields (augmented) via discharge and 4. damage boost via shock trooper. volt isn't a support frame through and through like trin (then again who is...), but claiming the two don't go together at all is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just now, RealPandemonium said: Only in the case of Toxin and Finisher damage, which ignore standard conventions when it comes to shields. Toxin damage is very rare, and Slash procs are typically not very powerful. Most status effect damage can reduced to negligible or near-negligible levels by rolling, and the Slash proc inflicted by Elite Lancer are no exception, even in Sorties. However, that does not mean shields are health 1 minute ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: um... what? he potentially provides the team with: 1. speed, most famously 2. protection via shields 3. CC & shields (augmented) via discharge and 4. damage boost via shock trooper. volt isn't a support frame through and through like trin (then again who is...), but claiming the two don't go together at all is just wrong. Is the purpose to protect your team? no, sure speed for your allies but that's not the main objective that is at hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just now, Kotsender_Quasimir said: um... what? he potentially provides the team with: 1. speed, most famously 2. protection via shields 3. CC & shields (augmented) via discharge and 4. damage boost via shock trooper. volt isn't a support frame through and through like trin (then again who is...), but claiming the two don't go together at all is just wrong. That poster has a very narrow view of what Volt should/shouldn't be and has demonstrated repeatedly that he lacks the knowledge and experience needed to give qualified feedback. 35 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said: No, that's definatly not true! Also, Why do you think the new ultimate does more damage then prior? It is about damage and CC not primarly support Discharge does more damage per cast than Overload did, period, except in very rare edge-cases where great numbers of enemies were clumped together very closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Rebecca Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 4 hours ago, lightdragon64 said: Would these tweaks just be simple ajustments? Or perhaps can we expect a new mechanic? There is more information in this post, and Shield is getting a new mechanic. Will upload a gif of it in action as soon as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, [DE]Rebecca said: There is more information in this post, and Shield is getting a new mechanic. Will upload a gif of it in action as soon as I can. Better!!! just a little but it's a start! Edited June 22, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said: Is the purpose to protect your team? no, sure speed for your allies but that's not the main objective that is at hand is it not in t4 def or the infamous "surv sewer" (just some examples)? what do you mean by objective, objectives are mission dependant... i don't get it. Edited June 22, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylvenStar Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Come on guys, seriously! We just managed to get something to happen with Volt, don't start getting vicious with each other now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, RealPandemonium said: That poster has a very narrow view of what Volt should/shouldn't be and has demonstrated repeatedly that he lacks the knowledge and experience needed to give qualified feedback. I'm pretty sure i'm not seeing this threw a narrow view seemingly how ive posted lot's of feedback and many alike agree, but whatever say what you want! Edited June 23, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzoneSlayer Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) 44 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said: There is more information in this post, and Shield is getting a new mechanic. Will upload a gif of it in action as soon as I can. I told you. Your my savior Edited June 22, 2016 by OzoneSlayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 (edited) hm, rag dolling is quite a big deal. i can potentially see it justifiying the drain because you'll probably be able to just overrun a map quite literally XP ... interesting, 'specially for melee-volt lovers i presume. opt out is better than in i guess, in general not sure about parcour moves being the way tho because... well at least in theory they exist for a reason, like dodging etc (if maps wouldn't be permanuked/-CCed anyway y'know)... anyway i guess it's good enough as interim solution and a step towards a standardized "out-opting", which should be changed in the future though imo (let us just define some key, any key really please :) ). Edited June 22, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: opt out is better than in i guess, in general not sure about parcour moves being the way tho because... well at least in theory they exist for a reason, like dodging etc (if maps wouldn't be permanuked/-CCed anyway y'know)... anyway i guess it's good enough as interim solution and a step towards a standardized "out-opting", which should be changed in the future though imo (let us just define some key, any key really please :) ). Peopel are pointing out in the pre-hotfix thread that the context button could be used for opt-outs unobtrusively. It currently reloads by default if there is nothing to interact with, but the reload button already does that and you can even turn off the context-button reload in the options menu already. Lets hope they implement this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylvenStar Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 minute ago, RealPandemonium said: Peopel are pointing out in the pre-hotfix thread that the context button could be used for opt-outs unobtrusively. It currently reloads by default if there is nothing to interact with, but the reload button already does that and you can even turn off the context-button reload in the options menu already. Lets hope they implement this. I want to agree with you, I really do, but being as it is with revive being an interaction, it just... it makes things wonky a lot of the time. If revive could be altered somehow, then I'd be all for it. But too many times I've made it to an ally to revive them at the last second and because an interaction popped up and overrode revive, I couldn't save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Rebecca Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Andddd we've got a gfycat! https://gfycat.com/FairFarflungAndeancockoftherock Here is a version of the prototype with the base interaction of enemies being hit by Volt's Riot Shield while Speed is active. Verdict: Very Satisfying/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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