Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[merryfistmas]

2 hours ago, SylvenStar said:

Gonna point out a few flaws in your argument here: 

Firstly: no. Volt does not have incredible CC unless you're on lower levels where there are few enemies. That damage cap that Discharge has? It doesn't just put a halt on the damage, it puts a halt on the CC. Go into a sortie with more than a few enemies around, suddenly Discharge doesn't even work longer than a few seconds. Shock? Okay, so you have an interrupt. That "stun" duration from shock barely lasts long enough to qualify as a stun. Second: Why should Volt have to activate his ability multiple times for it to really achieve its intended use? That's energy devouring.
Next: I agree with you. Electric Shield is fantastic. Except for the part where you constantly pick it up by accident and lose ALL of your energy. Don't believe me? Try reviving someone with an ES next to you. Not so fun because the game randomly chooses whether you interact with the shield or do the revive. Honestly, I just want the riot shield gone, period. It's cool, and a power I'd like to see on something, but it's breaking Volt for me. I never use ES anymore because of how my controls get mucked up.
Lastly: Don't know if you noticed, but Hysteria isn't God-mode, anymore. It's energy drain becomes huge if you hold it for too long, and the range for taking the damage on deactivation is huge, no longer affected by reduced power range. Using it has become a delecate balancing act. Obviously one that favors the player, as, indeed, it is still ridiculous, but it has way more interactivity and isn't perma invulnerable-berzerk mode anymore. Especially now that energy leeches will suck your energy dry while it's active.

Now here's where I'll agree with you: Volt is easily one of my favorite frames to use on level 25 and below, especially level 25 exactly. Beefy enemies aren't killed unless they're near clusters of enemies, the CC lasts a satisfyingly long time, there's the perfect amount of enemies for zipping past enemies with Speed to be challenging but not impossible, and Shock... Well, I still don't use it. Never have, never will, except when I feel like punching one target really hard while Discharge is going, which is... well, rare, especially given that my gun already does that and that Discharge is nigh-useless outside of level 25.
And you're absolutely right: Volt's augments are amazing! Shocking Speed (Which I've yet to get) is huge. It would be nice to see that damage get the same synergy with Discharge as Shock currently has. Capacitance? That's the only reason I even use Discharge anymore. It keeps my shields super healthy when I really need it. Shock Trooper? Absolutely, that buff to allies is one that my group has used a LOT, especially with Saryn's version. It's ridiculous that people ignore these augments. However, you need to consider this: A power should not rely on its augment that much.

I get what you're saying here, and I agree with you on a lot of it somewhat: the problem is that the Riot Shield function is crippling, and he simply isn't useful in mid-late game sections. I'm not saying that he needs some big gigantic rework again, I'm saying that he doesn't SCALE like nearly every other frame does. Obviously the Speed Coil function is a personal preference, but I'm siding with the "I hate it" side. The activation delay has gotten me killed sometimes, and I just can't be the team player I want to be without going crazy dropping coils all over the place, and Volt isn't able to do that without devouring energy restores. Since when should a frame be dependent on a damn consumable? And then the health cap on Discharge. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has something to say about it that isn't negative.

Now here's what I suggest. If we aren't going to rework him again to give him some really, really cool stuff (As in buy time for that so DE can focus on bigger game mechanics and CINEMATIC QUESTS THAT ALSO TAKE TIME TO MAKE) we should at least rebalance him.
First suggestion: That passive is useless. Rather than add damage, have it slowly build stacks to regen energy. Bear with me on this: Yes, that would mean making his powers relatively spammable. Some kind of balance would need to be put in place to fix how broken this would be on lower levels. However: This would help fix the issue with Riot Shield's energy drain, Shock's lack of usefulness except when spammed on higher levels, maintain constant speed and melee speed (His base stats are... laughable.) and actually maintain the CC that Discharge is capable of on higher levels. It wouldn't stack energy super duper fast like Zenurik max energy regen, but when combined with that plus Energy siphon, Volt would be able to choose between constant speed and shocks, popping the occasional shield, or the occasional Discharge. I'm pretty sure this would suffice for Volt players, at least until a new setup for Volt can be made.

Second suggestion:
As I suggested in an earlier post, make that passive interact with powers more, and stop it from consuming stacks on non-power uses. And remove the health cap on Discharge. It's just... dumb. It's less of a limit on using small units as coils than it is limiting the entire power to serving as a simple chunk of "Everybody in this room shares in 6,000 damage!" which means nothing at higher levels.
 

I have never encountered this problem with electric shield, and I do use when reviving people. I love the riot shield personally, and the energy drain is nowhere near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, seriously? ALL of your energy? Maybe if you bullet jump around the map. I find it immensely more useful than it was previously, even capped at six shields.

I can't say much on the coils, since I'm usually the one dropping them rather than picking them up. I never had an issue with other volts giving me the buff, so given the choice I'd have to say I'd probably prefer it without the coil, I was just explaining how I try to get around the drawback. And you really need to pick up shocking speed, it's so much fun.

I have used discharge in sorties, and it works fine, not sure what people are talking about here, and I've seen other volts save the teams asses in Sortie 3 stunning enemies for 10+ seconds with it, so this isn't just confirmation bias or something. If the CC ends when you hit the damage cap than it's not enough of a drawback for me to notice, or maybe that's because I don't like tanking power strength even on a range build?

You're right, shock isn't great by any means, but that's why I said 3 useful abilities. It still isn't bad, but could definitely be changed to something more useful.

Saying he's only fun or useful up to level 25 is a ridiculous exaggeration. Even if you don't think discharge is useful, speed and shield scale well. Again, I've used him on sorties, I see other people use him in sorties, and both have pretty good results.

[Cytobel]

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 2:23 PM, EnderDDT said:

*snip*

TL/DR: To make Volt's Riot Shield balanced cut all restrictions on speed and weapon, remove the cost per distance, and reduce the carry cost to 2 or at most 3 energy per second.  THIS IS BALANCED!!!!!  See above for the explanation of why. It very much annoys me to see people talking about "compensation" without thinking about balance first.

Completely agreed.

There have been a number of changes that've come at us sideways recently, and many of the finer aspects simply haven't been thought through.  I'm hoping to see something that fixes the problems this "re-bork" has created in place of working (even if totally outdated) mechanics.

On a positive note, I don't get stuck in the casting animation for Overload anymore.  Maybe because I'm not casting it hardly as often, but whatever.

I hope DE finishes pulling this Update out of unmentionable places soon, so that some actual fixes can occur.  I really cannot care less about a hotfix to whatever the hell that sport/ball/thing is doing when massive (and totally ignored) issues are cropping up in 'Frames.

At this rate we'll not see usable Kavats this year.  Hell, at this rate Starchart 3.0 problems will be a central fixture for the next 5 years.

(Too soon to call issues in something unreleased?  Call it a hunch, based off of experience we've all expressed having.)

--------------------------------------------------------------

I want to be proven wrong here.  PLEASE feel free to make my negativity totally unfounded, DE.  I don't want to have a leg left to stand on in this.  PLEASE (actually) FIX these issues, and finish the Volt rework.

 

[Cytobel]

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 9:14 PM, (XB1)DomTheKilleur said:

I wish his 4th would be something like this...

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

WARN people before you post something that looks like an actual good use of electrical damage!  I have to wear these pants all day!

[Aquasurge]

15 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

Hey @Aquasurge #Stormriders is spreading! We can make an impact! cmon guys! WE HAVE A VOICE  Do not sumbit and act as if theres nothing we can do! No more!

 

 

 

hell yes! lets take to social media! make a lot of  fan art or stuff and promote the end of the fixes volt needs!

[SylvenStar]

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I have never encountered this problem with electric shield, and I do use when reviving people. I love the riot shield personally, and the energy drain is nowhere near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, seriously? ALL of your energy? Maybe if you bullet jump around the map. I find it immensely more useful than it was previously, even capped at six shields.

Not instantaneously, but yes. I haven't tried a MAX duration build, but if I'm at 150 energy, drop a shield, then bullet jump into the crowd so I can blast away with my V Marelok, my energy and the shield are both gone before I even fire the first shot. 

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I can't say much on the coils, since I'm usually the one dropping them rather than picking them up. I never had an issue with other volts giving me the buff, so given the choice I'd have to say I'd probably prefer it without the coil, I was just explaining how I try to get around the drawback. And you really need to pick up shocking speed, it's so much fun

Perhaps I'll find use for Volt at higher levels once I do pick him up. As he is for me, Speed and ES aren't nearly enough to be fun, especially on their own. Good, but not fun.

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I have used discharge in sorties, and it works fine, not sure what people are talking about here, and I've seen other volts save the teams asses in Sortie 3 stunning enemies for 10+ seconds with it, so this isn't just confirmation bias or something. If the CC ends when you hit the damage cap than it's not enough of a drawback for me to notice, or maybe that's because I don't like tanking power strength even on a range build?

I take power strength because it raises the damage cap on Discharge, and because it makes Speed feel like I'm REALLY going places. I can get CC really well off of Discharge Vs Grineer, but that's because their sheer armor in the sorties keeps it from even hurting them. Corpus though... Electric damage does enough so that Moas and ospreys take too much damage, and pop the damage cap in an instant. They just happen to have the shields and health to not really care about the size of those numbers, usually somewhere in the 3-400's.

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Saying he's only fun or useful up to level 25 is a ridiculous exaggeration. Even if you don't think discharge is useful, speed and shield scale well. Again, I've used him on sorties, I see other people use him in sorties, and both have pretty good results.

Well, he's not absolutely useless above that, per-say, he's just... really lackluster. Plain, not unique. Other frames would be a far better pick over him. I run Turbulence on Zephyr, and with that, I have just about everything Volt can do. CC with the tornados (plus a choice of elemental damage on them) movement speed AND omni-directional defense, plus a hyper bullet jump, an AoE ground pound, 1/2 gravity effects, and higher base stats in every single area. Speed and Shield just aren't enough for me to enjoy on their own. To be honest, the thing I want to see the most is a passive that has gimmicky interactions with each ability as it builds stacks, and have that health cap removed from Discharge. That's all I ask for.

[Wolfnrun]

5 hours ago, Cytobel said:

I want to be proven wrong here.  PLEASE feel free to make my negativity totally unfounded, DE.  I don't want to have a leg left to stand on in this.  PLEASE (actually) FIX these issues, and finish the Volt rework.

It's a half baked rework... so much is not finished and it feels broken...Volt it sad...They hurt me space mom! it has been OVER 3 EARTH YEARS  and it still hurts! 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

7 hours ago, merryfistmas said:

Saying he's only fun or useful up to level 25 is a ridiculous exaggeration.

my thoughts exactly. reading through the last few pages i'm wondering we're playing the same frame. several qol flaws aside i still think volt is effing great now. been using him those last few weeks in all kind of engame content, often excelling, too... and i'm using his entire kit in every mission... the CC of discharge is working exceptionally well for me.

6 hours ago, SylvenStar said:

Other frames would be a far better pick over him. I run Turbulence on Zephyr, and with that, I have just about everything Volt can do.

with shields i can easily defend t4 def objects til wave 40 and above, can zephyr do that? i'd like to see how if so. it is true volt is not specialized in any discipline per se but like i pointed out already to me that is actually what's special about him - versatility. personally i'm happy he's not press x to win.

edit: i agree the drain on riot shield is too much etc. (for all i care let's get rid of it entirely)... i do see some problems with his rework, my point is just regardless  he's dang viable as he is already.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[[DE]Rebecca]

Just a heads up - we are experimenting with further tweaks to Volt which you can expect to come in a near deploy. More info to come once we have closer to final prototypes! Thanks for your patience, and more importantly thanks to those who provided detailed constructive feedback.

[Wolfnrun]

11 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a heads up - we are experimenting with further tweaks to Volt which you can expect to come in a near deploy. More info to come once we have closer to final prototypes! Thanks for your patience, and more importantly thanks to those who provided detailed constructive feedback.

#Stormriders yay!!! Thank you! Thank you! thank you! 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[OzoneSlayer]

19 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a heads up - we are experimenting with further tweaks to Volt which you can expect to come in a near deploy. More info to come once we have closer to final prototypes! Thanks for your patience, and more importantly thanks to those who provided detailed constructive feedback.

Your my savior

Edited June 22, 2016 by OzoneSlayer

[Wolfnrun]

2 minutes ago, OzoneSlayer said:

Your my savior

OZOOONE! ...Hi  We finally did it! well, we shall wait and see... It finally pulled off! 

[OzoneSlayer]

Just now, Wolfnrun said:

OZOOONE! ...Hi  We finally did it! well, we shall wait and see... It finally pulled off! 

Oh hi lol. I've been sitting in the shadows seeing how this would turn out. Volt is so close to being complete. Main things I'm hoping for are the removal of that Damage Cap, making the duration pause while picking up the shield,  duration mods to affect shock(Please DE), and to do something about that opt in system for speed. Its great to know our voices are being heard 

[Wolfnrun]

2 minutes ago, OzoneSlayer said:

Oh hi lol. I've been sitting in the shadows seeing how this would turn out. Volt is so close to being complete. Main things I'm hoping for are the removal of that Damage Cap, making the duration pause while picking up the shield,  duration mods to affect shock(Please DE), and to do something about that opt in system for speed. Its great to know our voices are being heard 

It's always a pleasure seeing and speaking to you here on the forums! Me and you seem to be the "judges" of the rework and now you have appeard!  Also yes! A longer shock stun duration! being able to store damage with the passive, more buffs and less things that supposedly need to be "balanced"  when in actuality, that is not the case. I seem to have surrounded much attention to myself whenever volt appeared...I wonder If thats a good thing? 

[ZeroLiger]

54 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a heads up - we are experimenting with further tweaks to Volt which you can expect to come in a near deploy. More info to come once we have closer to final prototypes! Thanks for your patience, and more importantly thanks to those who provided detailed constructive feedback.

I hope they don't nerf anything... :T Except maybe Discharge's damage if that means more damage on shock ^_^

 

[Demonfr34k]

56 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a heads up - we are experimenting with further tweaks to Volt which you can expect to come in a near deploy. More info to come once we have closer to final prototypes! Thanks for your patience, and more importantly thanks to those who provided detailed constructive feedback.

Woooo, Damage Scaling fixes for Discharge? :3

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, ZeroLiger said:

I hope they don't nerf anything... :T Except maybe Discharge's damage if that means more damage on shock ^_^

 

NO! more damage is good but don't lower anything! 

[ZeroLiger]

17 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

It's always a pleasure seeing and speaking to you here on the forums! Me and you seem to be the "judges" of the rework and now you have appeard!  Also yes! A longer shock stun duration! being able to store damage with the passive, more buffs and less things that supposedly need to be "balanced"  when in actuality, that is not the case. I seem to have surrounded much attention to myself whenever volt appeared...I wonder If thats a good thing? 

Volt is my all time favourite warframe man ;_; I love him so much. I even liked him when he was considered trash and I got kicked from queues for selecting him (before I could debate anything)

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, ZeroLiger said:

Volt is my all time favourite warframe man ;_; I love him so much. I even liked him when he was considered trash and I got kicked from queues for selecting him (before I could debate anything)

Coinicidence, someone said to me "Pfff, volt"  and I got made fun of a few times "HA ! ITS A VOLT!" Im done with abilites that benifit weapons and not abilites, just add a damage buffing abiity and lots of buffs with little drawbacks. I don't like getting made fun of, thats not nice. All frames are NOT created equal. More damage, more durartion, I've already gatherd a large enough crowd and we are ready to go to straight buffs zone! 

[lightdragon64]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Just a heads up - we are experimenting with further tweaks to Volt which you can expect to come in a near deploy. More info to come once we have closer to final prototypes! Thanks for your patience, and more importantly thanks to those who provided detailed constructive feedback.

Would these tweaks just be simple ajustments? Or perhaps can we expect a new mechanic?

[Buttaface]

Wanted to add my opinion of the rework, as have been playing lots of Volt lately.

I think the rework is generally great, and the only suggestion has been posted already, reduce the cost of shield carry. I like the speed item allowing the player to waypoint a place where it will be dropped in static missions.

When built correctly, Volt is now one of the top support frames in the game via the augmented Discharge. Anyone who claims it is only good to low levels is sorely mistaken. It provides excellent healing and cc. On level 50 and below mobs, it is deadly, and will rival any other killing skills in the game. People who spend more than 10% of their gametime killing mobs at 75 and up levels are few and far between IME in this game, so all the "endgame" whinging about this or that is misplaced. I believe that for a huge, overwhelming majority of the playerbase, sorties and the occasional 40-60 minute survival or 40 wave void defenses are 99% of the real "endgame" not the fanboi fabrication of that word. I am sure the powers that be keep numbers on this, so they know for sure whether I'm right or not. Build the game for the 99%, not the 1% and it remains a great game.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Buttaface

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

I hope my feed backed counted as constructive:0 iv been kind of sour lately

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

10 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Wanted to add my opinion of the rework, as have been playing lots of Volt lately.

I think the rework is generally great, and the only suggestion has been posted already, reduce the cost of shield carry. I like the speed item allowing the player to waypoint a place where it will be dropped in static missions.

When built correctly, Volt is now one of the top support frames in the game via the augmented Discharge. Anyone who claims it is only good to low levels is sorely mistaken. It provides excellent healing and cc. On level 50 and below mobs, it is deadly, and will rival any other killing skills in the game. People who spend more than 10% of their gametime killing mobs at 75 and up levels are few and far between IME in this game, so all the "endgame" whinging about this or that is misplaced. I believe that for a huge, overwhelming majority of the playerbase, sorties and the occasional 40-60 minute survival or 40 wave void defenses are 99% of how the game is played. I am sure the powers that be keep numbers on this, so they know for sure. 

What healing?

[Wolfnrun]

21 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Wanted to add my opinion of the rework, as have been playing lots of Volt lately.

I think the rework is generally great, and the only suggestion has been posted already, reduce the cost of shield carry. I like the speed item allowing the player to waypoint a place where it will be dropped in static missions.

When built correctly, Volt is now one of the top support frames in the game via the augmented Discharge. Anyone who claims it is only good to low levels is sorely mistaken. It provides excellent healing and cc. On level 50 and below mobs, it is deadly, and will rival any other killing skills in the game. People who spend more than 10% of their gametime killing mobs at 75 and up levels are few and far between IME in this game, so all the "endgame" whinging about this or that is misplaced. I believe that for a huge, overwhelming majority of the playerbase, sorties and the occasional 40-60 minute survival or 40 wave void defenses are 99% of the real "endgame" not the fanboi fabrication of that word. I am sure the powers that be keep numbers on this, so they know for sure whether I'm right or not. Build the game for the 99%, not the 1% and it remains a great game.

I am very confused?  support? 

[Wolfnrun]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I hope my feed backed counted as constructive:0 iv been kind of sour lately

Mine to! I have spoken very frequently... Actually we all have spoken very constructively! Althoughs with proposed changes and lots of positive feed back! which is 90% of us is in this thread...I would like to thank everyone for all of the added input and to look forward to a better future to our beloved electric lord! the dream will soon become a reality! 

[Buttaface]

1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

What healing?

The Capacitance augment on discharge provides constant shield healing to the entire team, together with overshielding. A similar augment, Trinity's vampire leech, heals and adds overshields, but only after energy is full, so it is very difficult to keep overshielding and shield healing up on frames with toggled abilities on, as they do not benefit from augmented EV. Not so Capacitance, it heals all no matter what skills they are using or the state of their energy pool, making it much easier to overshield frames using toggles than VL. This healing, together with the powerful CC makes max range Capacitance Volt one of the better support frames in the game currently. Not to mention the support that Volt's 2 and 3 offer the team. New Volt has immense utility not just as a speed buffer and shield plopper any more.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Buttaface