FitzSimmons Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 16 hours ago, Adder9 said: Since volt isn't all that popular and isn't considered an end game frame, most people don't keep one around, thus, DE doesn't have much incentive to please his few fans. Everyone else just sits him on the shelf. please explain to me the absolute reasons about how is he not an end game frame? and please stop use something like "Volt fans displeased by DE work on Volt". i'm a Volt fan, i'm really pleased with the work even it has drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) On 8/9/2016 at 7:37 AM, FitzSimmons said: please explain to me the absolute reasons about how is he not an end game frame? and please stop use something like "Volt fans displeased by DE work on Volt". i'm a Volt fan, i'm really pleased with the work even it has drawbacks. Your pleased with the rework even though it has drawbacks. (edit) Your pleased with the added cc to discharge (that works usually, without a power strength build) that is neither making him better for warframe or an alternative to gunplay. Not to me...to me it just makes him an alternative to having to care about anything after the long cast. Your pleased with the sheild limit. Your pleased with the fact nothing was done with shock except some interaction with sheild that is meh. Your pleased with the passive You are pleased with everything it seems. . Everyone is happy for you. I can't give you an answer without opinions on it. Facts are for sane people. Volt can be describe as an ok frame. His damage is ok. His abilities work together in an ok manner. He is ok. He is just fashion frame to me, lightning is cool, but doesn't accomplish much in this game, and discharge is visually less appealing than overload. Opinions. I can only give you opinions, and those aren't worth much, but I'll give them: "Endgame" frames refer to the frames that are higher tiered and better than Volt (from my point of veiw). There are better, less limited options than Volt. There are frames that accomplish more, are easier to play, and still do everything he tried to do and more. Nova (tier 1) is the compliment to gun play. Ember(tier 2-3) is the real alternative to gunplay Frost is the Aoe cc frame (tier 1-2) Saryn (tier 1-2) is the damage frame with an actually useful element for dealing damage. Valkyr (tier 1-2) can speed up melee attacks and slow down enemies. And a volt with no power strength and no room for rush, or a mobility mod is just half of that.~ but all of these frames also have some lacking aspect to them, so it's ok Volt (tier ?) can do a little of some of these things well or die trying. Edited August 11, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO Because Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzSimmons Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 1 hour ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: Your pleased with the drawbacks. Your pleased with the added cc to discharge (that works usually, without a power strength build) that is neither making him better for warframe or an alternative to gunplay. Not to me...to me it just makes him an alternative to having to care about anything after the long cast. Your pleased with the sheild limit. Your pleased with the fact nothing was done with shock except some interaction with sheild that is meh. Your pleased with the passive You are pleased with everything it seems. "im pleased with the works even if it has drawback" do you even understand that sentence? do you even know the difference between "im pleased with the works even if it has drawback" with "im pleased with the drawbacks"? smh added cc to discharge does make him better, if it doesnt then how am i now able help saving 3 noobs in a squad of sortie with discharge in interception? everyone bleedout on raid hijack part because of G3 and nothing stop them except my discharge, im the hero now. lets see...hmmm overload....less cc hmmmm....-cast it- oh barely hold enemies on sortie level, not even kill them or reduce their health to 50%, especially with grineer. why are you forcing that description on volt? "not to me", ok not to you, thats why its impossible to satisfy everyone. shield limit? 6 shield are not enough for you? tell me what mission that requires you to place electric shield more than 6? 3 years i play volt, barely change my warframe and i never find myself need more than 4-6 shields on any mission. ok, thats for me personally, i dont know how many shields you need until you reach max safe condition in the game. look at electric shield now, nullifiy aoe damage, even missiles on kela boss fight can't do a thing to volt with electric shield, went to kela with teammate as frost before volt rework and his globe can't even protect a single frame inside that globe from her missiles. draw vay hek's attention on me, volt by shooting him, to make him shoot his cannon on me because im invincible behind my shield from ranged attack, i think i play as distraction better than loki should be, fomorian's missile on LoR? barely do me any damage. you're not pleased with that? aren't you grateful for that work? i dont even need more than 6 shields to do all that. what thing should be done for shock? its great, one of the best 1 power in the game, you're not satisfied until it become killing machine like landslide? because of gunplay description? tbh i dont even need passive to play warframe, they're just fun factor to me. but that doesnt mean i reject better passive. i welcome passive improvement. 2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: I can't give you an answer without opinions on it. Facts are for sane people. yeah thats your opinion, my opinion, he is end game material nova - compliment to gunplay? because of double damage from MP? volt does that with electric shield, even electric shield give him protection bonus frost - aoe cc? volt does that, even better, restore shield and give overshield with capacitance saryn - only useful element? yeah because she has power combo, thats why i suggest add power combo to volt by making volt gain his electric characteristic, chain damage by weapon. if volt gain that characteristic from power combo, will electricity be useful as damaging? it is, really useful, imagine a semi auto weapon like bow does chain damage. hmmm delicious. sometimes when i shoot through electric shield i get that electric proc bonus that kill crowd of enemies from my sniper. valkyr - can speed up melee attack and slow down enemies? why bother slow them when you can stun them? i dont get it when you moving and attacking? shocking speed? not enough range? or too many enemies? cast discharge, with capacitance they're all stunned for long enough, to me 13 sec is a lot, thats my duration of discharge, not just that when some enemies that are not stunned shooting at me i still recovering my shield because many of them still discharged with capacitance. overshield all the way. so volt can do little of these things? i think other frames can only do 1 thing that volt can do while volt can do things many frame can do. oh i remember when people used to talk about volt isn't an end game material because his ult doesnt even worth anything for CC or damage, now the CC improved greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadScream Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Just here to say I played Volt more than one year ago, and just dicovered the new version with my recently crafter Volt Prime, and I love this rework. Maybe he still needs a bit of love, but I swear this warframe is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzSimmons Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Just now, DeadScream said: Just here to say I played Volt more than one year ago, and just dicovered the new version with my recently crafter Volt Prime, and I love this rework. Maybe he still needs a bit of love, but I swear this warframe is awesome. finally someone appreciate the rework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadScream Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, FitzSimmons said: finally someone appreciate the rework Sure I do. With duration and range he is far away from what I would call a "beginner frame". BTW, since when Shock works on surfaces instead of enemies ? I find it utterly awesome ! Some suggestions though : - remove the timer on shield when we take it, as the energy drain is already too strong imho - tap shock to use it as it currently works, press shock to send a straight electric projectile with high damage (no high range channeling but still electricity proc) (kind of a fireball but electric ?) - give 100% proc chance to shock-improved shields And 10/10 would main this warframe ! (already exilus'd, potatoed and forma'd twice tho) Edited August 9, 2016 by DeadScream typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, FitzSimmons said: "im pleased with the works even if it has drawback" do you even understand that sentence? do you even know the difference between "im pleased with the works even if it has drawback" with "im pleased with the drawbacks"? smh added cc to discharge does make him better, if it doesnt then how am i now able help saving 3 noobs in a squad of sortie with discharge in interception? everyone bleedout on raid hijack part because of G3 and nothing stop them except my discharge, im the hero now. lets see...hmmm overload....less cc hmmmm....-cast it- oh barely hold enemies on sortie level, not even kill them or reduce their health to 50%, especially with grineer. why are you forcing that description on volt? "not to me", ok not to you, thats why its impossible to satisfy everyone. shield limit? 6 shield are not enough for you? tell me what mission that requires you to place electric shield more than 6? 3 years i play volt, barely change my warframe and i never find myself need more than 4-6 shields on any mission. ok, thats for me personally, i dont know how many shields you need until you reach max safe condition in the game. look at electric shield now, nullifiy aoe damage, even missiles on kela boss fight can't do a thing to volt with electric shield, went to kela with teammate as frost before volt rework and his globe can't even protect a single frame inside that globe from her missiles. draw vay hek's attention on me, volt by shooting him, to make him shoot his cannon on me because im invincible behind my shield from ranged attack, i think i play as distraction better than loki should be, fomorian's missile on LoR? barely do me any damage. you're not pleased with that? aren't you grateful for that work? i dont even need more than 6 shields to do all that. what thing should be done for shock? its great, one of the best 1 power in the game, you're not satisfied until it become killing machine like landslide? because of gunplay description? tbh i dont even need passive to play warframe, they're just fun factor to me. but that doesnt mean i reject better passive. i welcome passive improvement. yeah thats your opinion, my opinion, he is end game material nova - compliment to gunplay? because of double damage from MP? volt does that with electric shield, even electric shield give him protection bonus frost - aoe cc? volt does that, even better, restore shield and give overshield with capacitance saryn - only useful element? yeah because she has power combo, thats why i suggest add power combo to volt by making volt gain his electric characteristic, chain damage by weapon. if volt gain that characteristic from power combo, will electricity be useful as damaging? it is, really useful, imagine a semi auto weapon like bow does chain damage. hmmm delicious. sometimes when i shoot through electric shield i get that electric proc bonus that kill crowd of enemies from my sniper. valkyr - can speed up melee attack and slow down enemies? why bother slow them when you can stun them? i dont get it when you moving and attacking? shocking speed? not enough range? or too many enemies? cast discharge, with capacitance they're all stunned for long enough, to me 13 sec is a lot, thats my duration of discharge, not just that when some enemies that are not stunned shooting at me i still recovering my shield because many of them still discharged with capacitance. overshield all the way. so volt can do little of these things? i think other frames can only do 1 thing that volt can do while volt can do things many frame can do. oh i remember when people used to talk about volt isn't an end game material because his ult doesnt even worth anything for CC or damage, now the CC improved greatly. Aoe cc to me is the problem in this game, the same way people think damage abilities are what's wrong with the game. Why would you be happy that you lock down a grineer map to revive allies, when that is why prism was nerfed?(locking down whole maps) Sheild was a great buff. And the only time I used more than 6 sheilds was for fun at the end of the mission. It's still a limit I don't like. It has a timer. If a volt wants to run back and forth creating an "impenetrable" barrier with maxed duration that enemies can still walk through...let them? Idk, maybe it was over powered, I'm not actually salty about the limit, we got 6 instead of 4, yay. What thing should be done for shock??? Sorry, meme inside Have you not seen the video where volt rhino and trin bust into Alad v's lab to save mag? Do you know who captain Vor is? And banshees sonic boom is the best first ability in the game then imo, if you are thinking of a quick enemy stun ability instead of falcon punches, it out performs shock. Nova is a complement to gunplay because mp and antimatter drop. Gunplay is actually a compliment to her abilities. Volt comes nowhere close to that damage, but he has better protection from the sheild than nova does with anti matter drop. Frost does it better because the Aoe stun is more reliable, always stuns for the same amount of time and strips armor. Volt is only superior against frost with a longer stun time, but again, I think Aoe crowd control is the wrong direction for warframe to keep heading towards. Also if you use max power strength, super tiny frost bubble and stack it 4 times....your pretty much set, and life will be good for you~of course that means not large Aoe stun, but no one is going to be getting close to you if you pick nullifiers off from a distance and freeze anyone that comes near. Camping frame. Saryn. Poison is actually a bad element. It does not stun enemies like the other 3. But, Saryn has all 4 different variations of poison. And a forced stun of miasma. So it's ok. And yes, poison is better than Electricity as a damage proc. And yes I like your idea for Electricity damage. Valkyr can slow down enemies And speed up her melee attacks on her own. 8 empty mod slots. Volt needs shocking speed~7 empty mod slots. But shocking speed is superior because it does not need to be recast....until you get into using valkyrs warcry augment...than volts speed is just not the same at all..no recast needed, so Valkyr is still better. Volt can go into Endgame, and Volt is a Jack of all trades. Yes. He dips his hands into multiple different frames kits, but he is not a master of any of these things, except he offers slightly better protection than frost (which is actually a trade off 180°s of protection v.s. 360°s of protection) and his augments make him ok. Mags sheild polarize was nerfed, so capacitance can probably actually compete now...they both give gradual sheild overages. And Energy vampire requires you to hug trinity and never spend energy, so...yeah, capacitance is ok. And the passive. Why it can't just be at 1000 instead of building to 1000, I will never know. I'm not assailing you with a wall of text because I have a problem with anything you have said. I'm doing it because I get carried away with things... Edited August 9, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, FitzSimmons said: finally someone appreciate the rework hey, i'm still following, too! :P in fact all frames are easily endgame viable imho, it's just some are able to breeze through it completely braindead. personally i'm happy volt isnt one of those. (that being said there is alot still to be fixed of course, like shields disappearing after death, not switching back to whatever weapon he held before picking up a shield, discharge not castable in air (this intentinal u srs?!) ... among others. also disappointed by shock only giving shields some damage (i smell augment material)... but he doesn't "need" another rework at all in my book.) edit: if he indeed is capable of perma-stunlocking whole grineer tilesets (i never even tried this) of course this needs looking into, too... Edited August 9, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: hey, i'm still following, too! :P in fact all frames are easily endgame viable imho, it's just some are able to breeze through it completely braindead. personally i'm happy volt isnt one of those. (that being said there is alot still to be fixed of course, like shields disappearing after death, not switching back to whatever weapon he held before picking up a shield, discharge not castable in air (this intentinal u srs?!) ... among others. also disappointed by shock only giving shields some damage (i smell augment material)... but he doesn't "need" another rework at all in my book.) edit: if he indeed is capable of perma-stunlocking whole grineer tilesets (i never even tried this) of course this needs looking into, too... Who wants brain dead game play? Who wants that? My view is that Warframe powers can/should all be equally useful, because enemies can/should all be better. No one shot kill enemies, just better, that's all I want. And better abilities, and enemies that can take the hits or Instead of just standing still stunned/dazed/incapacitated. No one realistically stands in one spot and slowly waves their arms around while on fire. No one does that. The grineer should actually successfully mine those materials that will let them use energy weapons. They actually complete the manic research. Manics use rush and handspring and can match your speed and movement. The corpus should actually successfully mass produce zanukas, and deploy them as units. Medical units for enemies. Better corpus. Better grineer. And conversely, better infested and corrupted. No knock down spam, no Insta death...And no Aoe CC! Nyx will need help, but it would be ok. That's the pipedream warframe I wish for. Not brain dead gameplay. But since that is what we have, why does Volt have to underperform compared to the other zombie frames? Edited August 9, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzSimmons Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: hey, i'm still following, too! :P in fact all frames are easily endgame viable imho, it's just some are able to breeze through it completely braindead. personally i'm happy volt isnt one of those. (that being said there is alot still to be fixed of course, like shields disappearing after death, not switching back to whatever weapon he held before picking up a shield, discharge not castable in air (this intentinal u srs?!) ... among others. also disappointed by shock only giving shields some damage (i smell augment material)... but he doesn't "need" another rework at all in my book.) edit: if he indeed is capable of perma-stunlocking whole grineer tilesets (i never even tried this) of course this needs looking into, too... oh right sorry, hard to see the appreciation in pile of disappointments of this thread. Edited August 9, 2016 by FitzSimmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzSimmons Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: Why would you be happy that you lock down a grineer map to revive allies, when that is why prism was nerfed?(locking down whole maps) first, prism because the duration of stunned enemies are insane compared to discharge, the range of discharge isn't as good as prism, even if i don't use mirage in LoR i watch them myself that in 2nd stage of LoR, puzzle section, 1 cast blinds everything in that room, volt barely reach half of the room with max range, now you go to simularcum, cast max range overload with 250% range and see if discharge range get past half of simularcum, it won't. re cast prism will reset stun duration on stunned enemies, discharge? can't do that, the stun duration won't reset so you have to keep cast and cast, takes more energy than prism, and with max range discharge build, enemies easily break away from the stun. 6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: Sheild was a great buff. And the only time I used more than 6 sheilds was for fun at the end of the mission. It's still a limit I don't like. It has a timer. If a volt wants to run back and forth creating an "impenetrable" barrier with maxed duration that enemies can still walk through...let them? Idk, maybe it was over powered, I'm not actually salty about the limit, we got 6 instead of 4, yay. complain about the limit, want it to change because you dont like eh? because you cant use it for fun factor anymore. ok.....nothing to say to that in some way. 6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: And banshees sonic boom is the best first ability in the game then imo, if you are thinking of a quick enemy stun ability instead of falcon punches, it out performs shock. it is the best, why? dont you know her augment? sonic fracture, with a little power str, and boo yah! no armor on grineer. so what? you want shock to perform every 1 power on all warframes? if there is banshee rework and you still complain if there is nothing done to sonic boom, man you never have enough of anything. because banshee sonic boom is fine. and i didn't say quick stun of shock is better than banshee sonic boom. but it doesn't hurt to revive bleedout warframe with shock therapy, if shock can do that. 6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: Nova is a complement to gunplay because mp and antimatter drop. Gunplay is actually a compliment to her abilities. Volt comes nowhere close to that damage, but he has better protection from the sheild than nova does with anti matter drop. doesn't mean volt isn't complement to gunplay because of his damage nowhere close to antimeter + mp, if volt has that great protection protection and his damage close to nova, isn't that too OP? it is! "haha im invulnerable behind this shield and not even 1 enemy i can't kill with one shot of my gun" dude...... 6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: Frost does it better because the Aoe stun is more reliable, always stuns for the same amount of time and strips armor. Volt is only superior against frost with a longer stun time, but again, I think Aoe crowd control is the wrong direction for warframe to keep heading towards. Also if you use max power strength, super tiny frost bubble and stack it 4 times....your pretty much set if you think frost aoe is better than volt then why think about discharge get nerfed? if frost aoe is better then DE should look into frost first then volt. oh you forgot that shield doubles critical damage, the cons is shield isnt 360 degree and can't hold moa railgun. max strength with 4 stack, wait i have seen that scenario before in my screen on simularcum, it doesnt even last longer than 25 secs when high level enemies around you keep shooting at snow globe, with max str how much energy you used? its impossible just to get 4 stack globe and you dont have to cast globe anymore. globe is vulnerable to aoe, we have pros and cons here on all warframes 6 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: Valkyr can slow down enemies And speed up her melee attacks on her own. 8 empty mod slots. Volt needs shocking speed~7 empty mod slots. But shocking speed is superior because it does not need to be recast....until you get into using valkyrs warcry augment...than volts speed is just not the same at all..no recast needed, so Valkyr is still better. again if volt melee atk speed buff is better than valkyr then whats good a melee focused warframe is compared to volt thats well rounded? if volt is completely better than everyone, doesnt that make him godly OP? just like when you compared volt complement to gunplay with nova complement to gunplay. you will find volt everywhere every time you do mission if volt is completely better than everyone, zeus volt, god of warframe. Edited August 10, 2016 by FitzSimmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateRiem Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Methinks Volt's ult should look something like this With electricity instead of sound. Also, anybody else finds the ability to pick up the shields extremely obnoxious? It constantly prevents me from reloading from behind my shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, FitzSimmons said: first, prism because the duration of stunned enemies are insane compared to discharge, the range of discharge isn't as good as prism, even if i don't use mirage in LoR i watch them myself that in 2nd stage of LoR, puzzle section, 1 cast blinds everything in that room, volt barely reach half of the room with max range, now you go to simularcum, cast max range overload with 250% range and see if discharge range get past half of simularcum, it won't. re cast prism will reset stun duration on stunned enemies, discharge? can't do that, the stun duration won't reset so you have to keep cast and cast, takes more energy than prism, and with max range discharge build, enemies easily break away from the stun. complain about the limit, want it to change because you dont like eh? because you cant use it for fun factor anymore. ok.....nothing to say to that in some way. it is the best, why? dont you know her augment? sonic fracture, with a little power str, and boo yah! no armor on grineer. so what? you want shock to perform every 1 power on all warframes? if there is banshee rework and you still complain if there is nothing done to sonic boom, man you never have enough of anything. because banshee sonic boom is fine. and i didn't say quick stun of shock is better than banshee sonic boom. but it doesn't hurt to revive bleedout warframe with shock therapy, if shock can do that. doesn't mean volt isn't complement to gunplay because of his damage nowhere close to antimeter + mp, if volt has that great protection protection and his damage close to nova, isn't that too OP? it is! "haha im invulnerable behind this shield and not even 1 enemy i can't kill with one shot of my gun" dude...... if you think frost aoe is better than volt then why think about discharge get nerfed? if frost aoe is better then DE should look into frost first then volt. oh you forgot that shield doubles critical damage, the cons is shield isnt 360 degree and can't hold moa railgun. max strength with 4 stack, wait i have seen that scenario before in my screen on simularcum, it doesnt even last longer than 25 secs when high level enemies around you keep shooting at snow globe, with max str how much energy you used? its impossible just to get 4 stack globe and you dont have to cast globe anymore. globe is vulnerable to aoe, we have pros and cons here on all warframes again if volt melee atk speed buff is better than valkyr then whats good a melee focused warframe is compared to volt thats well rounded? if volt is completely better than everyone, doesnt that make him godly OP? just like when you compared volt complement to gunplay with nova complement to gunplay. you will find volt everywhere every time you do mission if volt is completely better than everyone, zeus volt, god of warframe. This is where I had to take a step back. Read this instead, that is a rant down there... I tried to make it less ranty, but I had to leave stuff out, the rest of the nonsense is below. 1) You are correct, discharge does less than prism. A stun over 10 seconds is just ridiculously overpowered though, in my eyes... 2) yes, the limit was unnecessary and DE actually was ok with it being 4. That scared the living jeebus out of me. 3) I never said anything was wrong with banshees sonic boom. I said it's the best 1st ability in game. But I wish the best for every frame in every rework. 4) volt is a compliment to gunplay. But not as good as a brokenly op frame named nova who will most likely never be nerfed. And he is supposed to be an "alternative" to gunplay...much the same way Banshee is a stealth frame... 5) Never said discharge should be nerfed in comparison to avalanche. Iv been moaning and complaining this entire time for it to be buffed. 6) Volt doesn't need to be better, he needs to be equal, and if one frame is allowed to be op, then fix the enemies to deal with it (like nullifiers, I see what De's thought process was), and make every underforming frame live up to that standard. Bare with me for a little longer in this conversation...if you would. I do like powerful game characters, I won't say other wise, but I also like rational sense making game logic more, and I try to abide strictly by the lore of the game before I go complaining about things... Volt would not be better than anyone, because every frame will be an equally awesome choice. That's my campaign slogan "when everyone is special, then no one will be" Maybe you see me as a villain. But there is a difference between one frame specializing in something and then that frame being the best option for everything. And every frame should be an option for everything. Do you know how many times I got ragdolled off screen by random bombard missions at lvl 80 in a t3 void? But I was rightfully forced out right? Well, you need to be forced out so you don't get too many rewards right? But 2 things. 1) if I want to spend 2 hours straight with no interruptions or loading screens, glued in front of my tv playing a game, I can pop in fallout, shadow of mordor, or hey, even Destiny. But I choose Warframe because I love it. And guess what? Loading screens, short missions, enemy cheese, rewards I could care less for, and nonsense. 2) If I choose a tank frame, I can go longer. If I choose a cheese frame and camp with my friends I can go even longer! So DE is telling me loud and clear exactly how I need to play their game. ·While discharge is a smaller underperforming stun compared to old prism, it is still the same general concept (in my mind). The only reason I bring this up is because I hate the concept of enemies being capable of power nullification, which exists and is becoming more prevalent in the game---> in my opinion due to rampant use of Aoe crowd control abilities, like what DE turned Discharge into... Not me, Not you, DE did that, and they will keep nullifiers in too to combat it. I didn't say anything about wanting it nerfed....I don't think I did..."an unnecessary change to discharge that I think hurts warframe"...oh, I might be asking for a nerf. I want a better mechanic, have you been to the orokin moon, done any spy missions there lately? Nice electricity on the map. ------> also, you stated "if I thought frosts Aoe was better than volts, why would I want Volts nerfed"~i have done nothing but complain about how lacking it is, how am I asking for it to be nerfed. Enemies wiggling around is the weakest of sauces. Oh and I am not actually crazy enough to think that DE will get rid of the bandaid enemy they added to combat rampant power use, especially when they just buffed them. Buy hey, nothing is really wrong with nullifiers, or isolator bursa, or combs and scrombs, or energy sucking eximi, they are fine as is....or we could get better enemies... Banshees first ability is a short stun like volts, affects generally the same amount of enemies, but it also opens them up to finishers (knocked down on the ground) when volts shock does not, and it works every time, where as shock can vary, if the enemy has already been stunned, or was in the middle of some other animation. A stunned enemy cannot defend itself, so where is the finisher prompt? I don't want shock to do every other frames job, I want it to work the way it does in the Alad v/Warframe trailer the same way some Ash fans want bladestorm to work the way it does when Excalibro cuts Vor in half. And I would assume that I would be able to tesla coil an enemy with shock the same way I would with discharge....right?....because as many others have stated, shock and discharge are really just the same thing...or maybe you can say they aren't. Who cares right? .......... Edited August 10, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) 18 hours ago, FitzSimmons said: finally someone appreciate the rework I'm going to be constructive and concise and say I appreciate DE immensely: Discharge has it's cc duration function tied into damage. In one sense, it's neat for high armored boss opponents and Grineer because their armor mitigates damage and stretches the duration. Making KdT dance-dance in Rathuum was lol. The problem is two-fold: unarmored enemies use up the damage and stop the cc stun. High level enemies, eat the damage or hit the damage cap fast and don't die, quickly killing the cc aspect of Discharge. People say it's better, but it's very much the new version of Mag's OLD shield polarize but for Grineer...AND it doesn't scale or instagib as well. ------------------------- And now a bit more depth as to how Volt becomes a challenge against high-level content. Volt has a contradictory skillset and attributes. Here's what I mean. His speed should tie his kit together, right? Speed's greatest trait is that it makes his melee great. But hold on, it makes him into a big glass hammer because he's squishy. I happen to love his speed melee so I Naramon-cheese this flaw. It helps a bit with ranged weapons but beyond that you LITERALLY have to hit the brakes to use other powers due to casting game mechanics and his kit. Shield is stationary and benefits gunplay with buffs and defense. Lightning-quick Volt is relegated to a "stop-go-stop" Turret frame. This role would be more valuable with more times events, but I still believe it violates Volt's intended vision. It's why I've lobbied hard for his passive to be an "on the move" fast cast with speed active. At least Volt (Prime) delivers on the whole concept of "Energy to burn" right? Hold on... Enter "Riot Shield". So much promise... I imagined Volt using it like a Centurion with melee or spearheading an assault with his ranged weapons. The double energy drain and secondary limitation along with slowing movement cripples and outweighs any tactical advantages. I'm almost insulted by this new alt-ability in it's current state. I understand the spirit of Discharge but let's be honest, it's damage and damage cap needs to always be secondary and separate from it's CC/stun mechanic. At the very least it needs stun minimums even if damage limits are reached. Damage from Frame powers is always going to be secondary to weapons due to game design so don't punish us by making a 4 with an inferior damage ability that cancels it's CC ability and claim it to be ok because it causes a bit more damage than Overload did. So here is "Volt the Contradiction" in summary: 1. He's lightning fast but must stop or go slow to use anything beyond Melee. 2. Speed makes him a Melee monster that dies fast due to a lack of armor/innate mobile defensive abilities. 3. His defensive shield buffs create a complement to and encourage Gunplay rather than support an alternative. 4. As a frame that supposedly has "energy to burn", he often falls short with his kinetic, spam-casting playstyle as necessitated by current builds and riot shield. 5. Edit: Base Speed is slow, which hamstrings his kit. Fin Edited August 10, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 The constant disappointment can be attributed to burn out...or it could be because I main Volt. Someone up above was excited that shock chains off surfaces, but I did not quote them, because I did not want to be rude. Thing is, it did that long before the rework. And then people say they are fine with the rework, but give suggestions on how to make it better. You are not truly fine with the rework if you are giving suggestions. Being ok with everything even with the drawbacks and saying the rework is good means that there is no way in which it should be improved. If you want an improvement, then the rework is not ok. That's how I see it, I can't see it any other way. Sorry. Volt, why he is treated the way he is, part 2: It may be the super obvious I'm pointing out, but... Since the title still won't change, it's really undeniable that the alternative to gunplay piece is referring to volt being a melee frame. As a Volt, DE probably envisions that you 1) Shock things with Shock and Discharge 2) use speed to run up and hit them 3) profit. 4) and sheild is there for when you get hurt too much from being a melee frame. Melee weapons are not guns, and Volt can use melee, therefore he is an alternative to gunplay. Let me give you an example of a frame in a similar predicament: Banshee Banshee is advertised as being a stealth frame. DE probably envisions you: 1) Casting Sonar 2) Casting silence and killing enemies before the stun wears off (pre passive), or just shooting enemies, running around crouched (post passive, thus why is silence still an ability by itself with nothing added?) 3) not letting enemies see you and use augment mods. 4) profit. ...... So the way I see it, Volt always has been "an alternative to gunplay"....just the way DE pictured he was. Why his powers alone won't make him an alternative to gunplay: 1) Because weapons are more important in this game than the damage Volts powers can do. And because damage abilities are wrong I guess. 2) Because his ultimate was changed to do Dot. 3) Because Volt just stuns things. Because Electric eximi are nothing to worry about, which is why DE tried to make them magnetic twice instead of fixing Electricity. Because Electricity is nothing to worry about in this game unles it's apart of the tile set and then for some odd reason it's worse than stepping in a pile of burning garbage. Pile of disappointments...:_(. This whole ordeal has been that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 9 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: The constant disappointment can be attributed to burn out...or it could be because I main Volt. Someone up above was excited that shock chains off surfaces, but I did not quote them, because I did not want to be rude. Thing is, it did that long before the rework. And then people say they are fine with the rework, but give suggestions on how to make it better. You are not truly fine with the rework if you are giving suggestions. Being ok with everything even with the drawbacks and saying the rework is good means that there is no way in which it should be improved. If you want an improvement, then the rework is not ok. That's how I see it, I can't see it any other way. Sorry. Reveal hidden contents Volt, why he is treated the way he is, part 2: It may be the super obvious I'm pointing out, but... Since the title still won't change, it's really undeniable that the alternative to gunplay piece is referring to volt being a melee frame. As a Volt, DE probably envisions that you 1) Shock things with Shock and Discharge 2) use speed to run up and hit them 3) profit. 4) and sheild is there for when you get hurt too much from being a melee frame. Melee weapons are not guns, and Volt can use melee, therefore he is an alternative to gunplay. Let me give you an example of a frame in a similar predicament: Banshee Banshee is advertised as being a stealth frame. DE probably envisions you: 1) Casting Sonar 2) Casting silence and killing enemies before the stun wears off (pre passive), or just shooting enemies, running around crouched (post passive, thus why is silence still an ability by itself with nothing added?) 3) not letting enemies see you and use augment mods. 4) profit. ...... So the way I see it, Volt always has been "an alternative to gunplay"....just the way DE pictured he was. Why his powers alone won't make him an alternative to gunplay: 1) Because weapons are more important in this game than the damage Volts powers can do. And because damage abilities are wrong I guess. 2) Because his ultimate was changed to do Dot. 3) Because Volt just stuns things. Because Electric eximi are nothing to worry about, which is why DE tried to make them magnetic twice instead of fixing Electricity. Because Electricity is nothing to worry about in this game unles it's apart of the tile set and then for some odd reason it's worse than stepping in a pile of burning garbage. Pile of disappointments...:_(. This whole ordeal has been that. Unfortuantly, just gotta keep trugging on, and pushing for something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzSimmons Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: The constant disappointment can be attributed to burn out...or it could be because I main Volt. Someone up above was excited that shock chains off surfaces, but I did not quote them, because I did not want to be rude. Thing is, it did that long before the rework. And then people say they are fine with the rework, but give suggestions on how to make it better. You are not truly fine with the rework if you are giving suggestions. Being ok with everything even with the drawbacks and saying the rework is good means that there is no way in which it should be improved. If you want an improvement, then the rework is not ok. That's how I see it, I can't see it any other way. Sorry. Reveal hidden contents Volt, why he is treated the way he is, part 2: It may be the super obvious I'm pointing out, but... Since the title still won't change, it's really undeniable that the alternative to gunplay piece is referring to volt being a melee frame. As a Volt, DE probably envisions that you 1) Shock things with Shock and Discharge 2) use speed to run up and hit them 3) profit. 4) and sheild is there for when you get hurt too much from being a melee frame. Melee weapons are not guns, and Volt can use melee, therefore he is an alternative to gunplay. Let me give you an example of a frame in a similar predicament: Banshee Banshee is advertised as being a stealth frame. DE probably envisions you: 1) Casting Sonar 2) Casting silence and killing enemies before the stun wears off (pre passive), or just shooting enemies, running around crouched (post passive, thus why is silence still an ability by itself with nothing added?) 3) not letting enemies see you and use augment mods. 4) profit. ...... So the way I see it, Volt always has been "an alternative to gunplay"....just the way DE pictured he was. Why his powers alone won't make him an alternative to gunplay: 1) Because weapons are more important in this game than the damage Volts powers can do. And because damage abilities are wrong I guess. 2) Because his ultimate was changed to do Dot. 3) Because Volt just stuns things. Because Electric eximi are nothing to worry about, which is why DE tried to make them magnetic twice instead of fixing Electricity. Because Electricity is nothing to worry about in this game unles it's apart of the tile set and then for some odd reason it's worse than stepping in a pile of burning garbage. Pile of disappointments...:_(. This whole ordeal has been that. the rework is ok, i gave suggestion doesn't mean it's not ok, whether DE improve Volt again or not i don't care, i'm satisfied. that's why the rework is ok to me. because that's your opinion, the way you see things is kind disturbing, you like to turn things around, why? even the simple thing like "pleased with rework even if it has drawback" you make it into "i pleased with the drawbacks". sorry i have to "quote" you, because sometimes someone need to be rude to make someone understand. when someone eat something and says it was delicious then they say "it could taste better if there was a ketchup". does that makes that person feel the food is not ok? of course not, that person still think the food is delicious. Edited August 11, 2016 by FitzSimmons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 3 hours ago, FitzSimmons said: the rework is ok, i gave suggestion doesn't mean it's not ok, whether DE improve Volt again or not i don't care, i'm satisfied. that's why the rework is ok to me. because that's your opinion, the way you see things is kind disturbing, you like to turn things around, why? even the simple thing like "pleased with rework even if it has drawback" you make it into "i pleased with the drawbacks". sorry i have to "quote" you, because sometimes someone need to be rude to make someone understand. when someone eat something and says it was delicious then they say "it could taste better if there was a ketchup". does that makes that person feel the food is not ok? of course not, that person still think the food is delicious. It's not rude. We will just always have different views. And you by no means have to listen to me or the nonsense i spout *holds out hand for handshake in honor of the game and good sportsmanship* And if you told my mom her food needed ketchup...may God have mercy on your soul. It's not as good as it could be, but it's ok~ I'm not going to say this, it's not going to happen, because I don't believe it. The rework is not terrible, but they did so much better with Frost, moreover Scott was excited to rework Frost, and the only limit to his abilities they put in was the 4 snowglobe limit, because it was actually a problem in the game people were complaining about, but in no devstream nor in any of this did I get a similar feeling of excitement, and if Volt and Frost were treated similarly, the only limit he would have would be on his electric sheild/with the buff it got. But that's me, and my disturbing veiws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzSimmons Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 15 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: And if you told my mom her food needed ketchup...may God have mercy on your soul. why would i tell your mom, i don't even eat her food 22 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said: It's not as good as it could be, but it's ok~ I'm not going to say this, it's not going to happen, because I don't believe it. The rework is not terrible, but they did so much better with Frost, moreover Scott was excited to rework Frost, and the only limit to his abilities they put in was the 4 snowglobe limit, because it was actually a problem in the game people were complaining about, but in no devstream nor in any of this did I get a similar feeling of excitement, and if Volt and Frost were treated similarly, the only limit he would have would be on his electric sheild/with the buff it got. But that's me, and my disturbing veiws. yeah like i said i don't care if there will be improvement anymore or not, im pretty satisfied, if there is going to be improvement i gladly accept, if not then i dont mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WINDMILEYNO Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Just now, FitzSimmons said: why would i tell your mom, i don't even eat her food yeah like i said i don't care if there will be improvement anymore or not, im pretty satisfied, if there is going to be improvement i gladly accept, if not then i dont mind. It was just a joke, but not all my jokes are funny, glad volt is cool to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toramaru Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I still believe in the rework remake! Passive could be something WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more useful, such as some sort of energy recharge/generation, or something like "finishing or killing electrified enemies recharges Volt Health" (Shields would suit better, but they are so damn useless we shouldn't even bother); Shock stun time being moddable (could even go 0 damage here); Speed's innate duration, Better synergy with other skills and increased survavibility; Deletion of ES as a whole! Why would I be static on a Warframe such as Volt? I like the battering ram idea, but still, as long as it plays against his kit, shouldn't we get a remake?; Discharge having better mechanics, and being more oriented to either CC or Damage, as it stands, it just lacks on both; MORE SPRINT SPEED! Something like at least 1.3! He's squishy, small and looks seriously frail. Reduce Speeds MS % and add more innate sprint speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Toramaru said: I still believe in the rework remake! Passive could be something WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more useful, such as some sort of energy recharge/generation, or something like "finishing or killing electrified enemies recharges Volt Health" (Shields would suit better, but they are so damn useless we shouldn't even bother); Shock stun time being moddable (could even go 0 damage here); Speed's innate duration, Better synergy with other skills and increased survavibility; Deletion of ES as a whole! Why would I be static on a Warframe such as Volt? I like the battering ram idea, but still, as long as it plays against his kit, shouldn't we get a remake?; Discharge having better mechanics, and being more oriented to either CC or Damage, as it stands, it just lacks on both; MORE SPRINT SPEED! Something like at least 1.3! He's squishy, small and looks seriously frail. Reduce Speeds MS % and add more innate sprint speed. Glad to see the enthusiasum Toramaru! and I don't mean be a dubby downer, but they don't like volt, On prime time there was volt and they auto-skipped him...They could care less. There was a thread made about removing ES that got lot's criticism, LOOKING BACK NOW I SAY GET RID OF IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE THAT WORKS BECAUSE THAT HAPPENED TO MAG WITHOUT KILLNG HER AND VOLT NEEDS THIS TO!!!. Suitable for a starter is not acceptable. I'm with you, volt need's that love HE NEVER GOT. VOLT IS SENSETIVE! How about merging speed and ES into a team supportive ability and replacing ES with a damageing ability? I notice how many use volt for supportive roles and some want damage. SIMILAR TO HOW PEOPLE USE FROST FOR DEFENSE AND OFFENSE. So Lets have volt be really versatile by having one big functioning supportive ability and 1 damaging/debuffing ability SO BOTH SIDES CAN BE APPEASED @[DE]Steve @[DE]Rebecca Please notice me/us!!! Edited August 14, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toramaru Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 3 hours ago, Wolfnrun said: Glad to see the enthusiasum Toramaru! and I don't mean be a dubby downer, but they don't like volt, On prime time there was volt and they auto-skipped him...They could care less. There was a thread made about removing ES that got lot's criticism, LOOKING BACK NOW I SAY GET RID OF IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE THAT WORKS BECAUSE THAT HAPPENED TO MAG WITHOUT KILLNG HER AND VOLT NEEDS THIS TO!!!. Suitable for a starter is not acceptable. I'm with you, volt need's that love HE NEVER GOT. VOLT IS SENSETIVE! How about merging speed and ES into a team supportive ability and replacing ES with a damageing ability? I notice how many use volt for supportive roles and some want damage. SIMILAR TO HOW PEOPLE USE FROST FOR DEFENSE AND OFFENSE. So Lets have volt be really versatile by having one big functioning supportive ability and 1 damaging/debuffing ability SO BOTH SIDES CAN BE APPEASED @[DE]Steve @[DE]Rebecca Please notice me/us!!! Hahahaha, Hey there @Wolfnrun! I was away for a while, playing other Frames, and it seems they did forget about Volt altogether. Bumped into him the other day on my Arsenal and remembered this post, so I came to see if DE had any kind of feedback, but they seem to have their hands full at the time with many updates. They are doing a wonderful job on other areas, but you seem to be on the spot, they are simply not that enthusiastic about our friendly Volt. But seriously, how about just removing ES? It just doesn't go along with his kit. you either play Speed or ES, there's simply no way to play both as they stand (mod-wise, and considering the Riot version of ES is a good idea, with TERRIBLE design). The passive is somewhat lacking as well... I believe I have NEVER dealt 1k damage. It takes too much to charge, and has no proc on Electric status. And since Speed is a good skill for melee, why not giving him a passive that enables energy sustain, for the channeling damage, or health sustain, for the melee range diving into killer mobs (think Shocking Speed doing the Electric proc + siphoning life from electrified enemies on melee kills/finishers). I don't think getting a substitute for ES that deals damage will work as well... Considering how skills go, with flat scaling, we would likely have another handicap on our hands. This is where I'm still working, trying to come up with a suggestion for a better Potent alternative to gunplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Toramaru said: Hahahaha, Hey there @Wolfnrun! I was away for a while, playing other Frames, and it seems they did forget about Volt altogether. Bumped into him the other day on my Arsenal and remembered this post, so I came to see if DE had any kind of feedback, but they seem to have their hands full at the time with many updates. They are doing a wonderful job on other areas, but you seem to be on the spot, they are simply not that enthusiastic about our friendly Volt. But seriously, how about just removing ES? It just doesn't go along with his kit. you either play Speed or ES, there's simply no way to play both as they stand (mod-wise, and considering the Riot version of ES is a good idea, with TERRIBLE design). The passive is somewhat lacking as well... I believe I have NEVER dealt 1k damage. It takes too much to charge, and has no proc on Electric status. And since Speed is a good skill for melee, why not giving him a passive that enables energy sustain, for the channeling damage, or health sustain, for the melee range diving into killer mobs (think Shocking Speed doing the Electric proc + siphoning life from electrified enemies on melee kills/finishers). I don't think getting a substitute for ES that deals damage will work as well... Considering how skills go, with flat scaling, we would likely have another handicap on our hands. This is where I'm still working, trying to come up with a suggestion for a better Potent alternative to gunplay. I like your possive energy! Clearly the description has stayed, and is being reinforced despite being as innacurate as it is " Time to truly make Volt 'an alternative to gunplay' – Warframe Description, 2012. " Rebbeca said that in the dev work shop...errr no... " Shock remains untouched as 'it’s a pretty great first ability' – [DE]Scott. The love of zapping is eternal." Again... nooo... we know how did it... (Thank you scott...) IF you think about it...why does a frame that's meant to be about damage, accoring to them. (I have the quotes up for a reason) There's no reason for a shield...plus, it's not as good as a metal riot shield because it doesn't have a duration and doesn't magically goes away. Replace it with something that debuffs enemies and damages them afterwards. This nerf (Still not calling it a rework) could have had sooo much more potential! Scott was pationate about the frost rework...but volt's was a big WHATEVER. I to have left volt for while, I went to nekros but he got touched so I'm almost out of options... I thought volt rework would have lived up to our expectations...nope, was excited for nekros rework,... I retract my words...Who's left? Ash? he's getting the touch sometime this fall... Rebbeca...scott...All staff, this is not ok... Please re-think what you think of as balanced after the WW... Nothing more really needs to be said, right now I am only sharing my feelings, not that it means anything Edited August 14, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toramaru Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said: I like your possive energy! Clearly the description has stayed, and is being reinforced despite being as innacurate as it is " Time to truly make Volt 'an alternative to gunplay' – Warframe Description, 2012. " Rebbeca said that in the dev work shop...errr no... " Shock remains untouched as 'it’s a pretty great first ability' – [DE]Scott. The love of zapping is eternal." Again... nooo... we know how did it... (Thank you scott...) IF you think about it...why does a frame that's meant to be about damage, accoring to them. (I have the quotes up for a reason) There's no reason for a shield...plus, it's not as good as a metal riot shield because it doesn't have a duration and magically goes away. Replace it with something that debuffs enemies and damages them afterwards. This nerf (Still not calling it a rework) could have had sooo much more potential! Scott was pationate about the frost rework...but volt's was a big WHATEVER. I to have left volt for while, I went to nekros but he got touched so I'm almost out of options... I thought volt rework would have lived up to our expectations...nope, was excited for nekros rework,... I retract my words...Who's left? Ash? he's getting the touch sometime this fall... Rebbeca...scott...All staff, this is not ok... Please re-think what you think of as balanced after the WW... Nothing more really needs to be said, right now I am only sharing my feelings, not that it means anything Go Inaros sir! Aside from nullifiers he pretty much crushes anything else if you're into melee! Back to Volt, I still believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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