Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[RealPandemonium]

6 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Speed makes you VERY hard to kill if built right, but you lose everything else to make that happen.

I often read this in Volt threads, but I have no idea what it means.  What exactly do you give up to have a good Speed?

[Cytobel]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

I often read this in Volt threads, but I have no idea what it means.  What exactly do you give up to have a good Speed?

You sacrifice Efficiency and Range for the Speed build.  You go for 269% Strength and 200% Duration.  Shocking Speed replaces your other abilities, giving you the "free" stuns you need for staying at melee range.

When I've run 200% Strength I thought Speed was OKAY.   Apparently the effect on enemy accuracy gets completely ridiculous above 250% Strength, not before.  It's a coding thing, and the build utilizes Naramon too, so your constant melee is that much more insane.  You know, the usual cheese.

Hell, I don't think the lenses should factor into your build at all, but look at the drain on some 'Frame abilities and tell me Zenurik wasn't used as justification.  I consider that to be a seperate issue, but is plays heavily into Volt's rebuild.  It could go either way I guess.

[voltocitygel]

13 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

You sacrifice Efficiency and Range for the Speed build.  You go for 269% Strength and 200% Duration.  Shocking Speed replaces your other abilities, giving you the "free" stuns you need for staying at melee range.

When I've run 200% Strength I thought Speed was OKAY.   Apparently the effect on enemy accuracy gets completely ridiculous above 250% Strength, not before.  It's a coding thing, and the build utilizes Naramon too, so your constant melee is that much more insane.  You know, the usual cheese.

Hell, I don't think the lenses should factor into your build at all, but look at the drain on some 'Frame abilities and tell me Zenurik wasn't used as justification.  I consider that to be a seperate issue, but is plays heavily into Volt's rebuild.  It could go either way I guess.

Zenurik isn't even remotely justifiable as a requirement for a "good" build on some frames, but what irks me more than anything is that we cannot effectively dual school in focus. Since you can only have 1 school active at a time. It forces you to specialize. That isn't bad on its own, but I would love it if I could add even the passives from another school to my current school. People who use more than 1 school may only choose 1 per mission. I suppose this is for a different thread though... 

[RealPandemonium]

2 hours ago, Cytobel said:

You sacrifice Efficiency and Range for the Speed build.  You go for 269% Strength and 200% Duration.  Shocking Speed replaces your other abilities, giving you the "free" stuns you need for staying at melee range.

When I've run 200% Strength I thought Speed was OKAY.   Apparently the effect on enemy accuracy gets completely ridiculous above 250% Strength, not before.  It's a coding thing, and the build utilizes Naramon too, so your constant melee is that much more insane.  You know, the usual cheese.

Hell, I don't think the lenses should factor into your build at all, but look at the drain on some 'Frame abilities and tell me Zenurik wasn't used as justification.  I consider that to be a seperate issue, but is plays heavily into Volt's rebuild.  It could go either way I guess.

I have yet to try a 250+% Speed; I'll give that a go.  You don't need super long duration, though, either, especially since you can recast whenever now and we are admittedly abusing Zenurik anyway.  

[(PSN)Silverback73]

22 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

I have yet to try a 250+% Speed; I'll give that a go.  You don't need super long duration, though, either, especially since you can recast whenever now and we are admittedly abusing Zenurik anyway.  

I'll bring my 250% range, 173% duration Naramon Volt Prime and you can cast speed while I induce map-wide "DANCE! DANCE! Electrocution 2016!". 

We then need a sharpshooter duration Volt for 60 second shields and Crit/lightning buff on ranged weapons.

And finally, a balanced Volt on the team...if such a thing exists.

Team 4olt!!!!

[RealPandemonium]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I'll bring my 250% range, 173% duration Naramon Volt Prime and you can cast speed while I induce map-wide "DANCE! DANCE! Electrocution 2016!". 

We then need a sharpshooter duration Volt for 60 second shields and Crit/lightning buff on ranged weapons.

And finally, a balanced Volt on the team...if such a thing exists.

Team 4olt!!!!

Could be fun.  I would say add me in game to try it out, but I get sad every time I realize some people are on consoles.  

[Cytobel]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

*snip*

Team 4olt!!!!

My build is as close as I could get to a "balanced" Volt.  It's got the Strength to use Speed without it feeling wasted, positive Duration and tolerable Range for Discharge (things are locked down for MORE than long enough), a decent spread for Shock and ES, and the Efficiency to cast as needed.

I wouldn't use any other build right now for Volt.  I have 4 usable (3 useful) buttons, and Speed doesn't completely suck balls.  It's good.  If only there were a bit more duration, but that's a seperate issue.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Cytobel

[voltocitygel]

21 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Could be fun.  I would say add me in game to try it out, but I get sad every time I realize some people are on consoles.  

I will next time I'm on. I see you around the forums a lot. 

21 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I'll bring my 250% range, 173% duration Naramon Volt Prime and you can cast speed while I induce map-wide "DANCE! DANCE! Electrocution 2016!". 

We then need a sharpshooter duration Volt for 60 second shields and Crit/lightning buff on ranged weapons.

And finally, a balanced Volt on the team...if such a thing exists.

Team 4olt!!!!

Mine is pretty balanced overall. I tend to play a mobile sniper playstyle, picking things off with my dread while either taking cover or advancing, depending on the situation. Or I use my akstilleto or nikana prime. It's quite fun. I mostly use discharge and Es, with shocks when I need them, and rarely ever speed. 

A volt only team does sound hella fun though... 

[----Dante----]

can Volt atlast get an additional passive?the current one alone is kinda meh.

maybe lighting dash?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 8/24/2016 at 7:38 PM, EnderDDT said:

First, I'm just going to come right out and say it: I think the Devs may have abandoned us here. After the initial update we got the speed changes (which were important to the super high level players, who only use that one move), we got the Riot Shield bash (which seemed to come INSTEAD of the needed reduction of penalties on use, especially the insately high energy costs), the Riot Shield's priority was messed with (though it still needs tweaking), and we got some silent fixes for the spread mechanic on his Discharge (which was expected, since it started out so buggy in many situations). Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from this we have gotten nothing else fixed. Nothing else seems to even be acknowledged that it might need fixed. There is a chance that DE has simply been swamped with the other many updates and that, now that Titania is out, they will be able to devote some more time back to Volt; but that is not exactly proven at this point (especially since we do know of other things that are on the horizon, such as the twin queens).

There are only about a dozen of us who have been here since the beginning, and I salute your dedication. There are still new people showing up somewhat regularly, and I do thank each and every one of you for your feedback. I think it is time to face the facts, three months later, that we are most likely being ignored. It has been two months since any changes have been made (the last being the Riot Shield bash and Speed opt-out changes). I would like to hope that things are about to be in the works, as there are less things definitely on the horizon now, but I'm not holding my breath.

----------------------------------------------------

Let me get right to the most major point that can be made. We all seem to agree that there are 3 main things that absolutely need to be fixed, even if we don't all agree on how to fix them. There are many other nice things that would be good to see changed but the most major issues that have been around since the beginning still need dealt with. These are them, in order of importance and how often they are constantly brought up.

1. Riot Shield has too many restrictions, most notably being an insane cost of use.

2. Discharge's stun is unreliable and unduly dangerous to use.

3. Volt and Volt Prime are numerically weaker than their counterparts and need more mods than they have slots to be on par.

The quick explanation of 1: The cost is so high that the ONLY way to use it requires dedicating a maxed Zenirik drain for the sole purpose of sustaining his shield, and other mods for duration, AND maxed efficiency. THIS IS BROKEN!!! The slow and energy on movement works directly against his speed. The weapon restriction seems to be insult to injury, especially after all the rest.

The quick explanation of 2: The stun basically never lasts the full duration unless it is against highly armored targets, in which case it does basically no damage. When it doesn't last the duration ends haphazardly, dropping enemies out one at a time making it extremely unleiable as a CC source. Meanwhile the long cast animation and the need to be in the middle of enemies for best use is a major problem against late-game enemies who are too much for Volt's extremely low defenses. The damage is sadly not late game viable enough for it to even be a factor in the discussion about stun duration (especially with the unreliability and slow speed of application that it has).

The quick explanation of 3: Volt and Volt Prime's base stats and ability stats are numerically weak. He is squishy and his abilities, which should make up for this, instead require so much modding to reach basic standards that he simply doesn't have enough space. This complaint comes in many forms (make his abilities stronger, make his base stats stronger, make his energy type better), but they all come down to this base numerical weakness.

---------------------------------------------------

The rest of the common complaints and arguments against those complaints come down to a disagreement about expectations and hopes for Volt within this game environment. A lot of people see things and think that they are "good enough", or that to want more is to go beyond certain "expectations" about what will or should be possible. Other people hope for more or think that the first group is expecting too little because they aren't considering what other frames may be capable of doing. If we at least understand the reasons why so many disagree on these points than perhaps we can come to more of an agreement or at least have more tolerance for why people hold the other view as us.

Volt's passive is, simply put, not relevant by late game or, arguably even by mid game. The main expectation that people seem to have is that passives are not necessarily supposed to be game-changing, but the hope is that the passive may be an interesting part of gameplay through out all levels of use. Some want to replace it or fix it to be stronger in one of multiple ways, but because of the overarching expectation it is not brought up as much. The question is, should we have such low expectations for a passive? That is a question that I can't answer.

Volt's Shock looses most of it's importance by late game as well. The stun duration is sad, the damage is not good, and the limit on targets hit really really hurts it in crowds. On the upside it is cheep and a way to do something while reloading. The expectation by many seems to be that #1 skills are all but trash in "real fights" and the fact that it has the limited utility that it does makes it "good". At some point in Warframe's history that may have been true, but at this point in the game's development the majority of #1 skills actually retain real viability throughout the entire life of the game. And yet, the expectation remains. For those who believe that Volt's shock is really fine, compare it to Mag's Pull or Oberon's Smite and try to figure out what Shock should be capable of comparatively. Options for fixing this have ranged from numerical changes (including removing the chain limit from the initial hit in order to let it hit all enemies around the initial target) all the way to replacing it with a completely new ability. The base power is too low for Power Strength to fix things, increasing range is a lost cause since his chain limits keep him from hitting more targets, duration does nothing; and so the ability is essentially unmodable (apart from efficiency).

Volt's speed, at base in terms of movement speed, is really sad. With two mods any and all other frames with a 1.0 movement speed can have nearly the same movement increase as the ability gives. Those with a 1.15 can have the same speed with only one mod. Those other frames who use one mod to do the same have that speed boost permanently, without any expenditure of energy. This extremely low starting speed boost, and what it means when power strength is added, is why so many people are asking for a boost in volt's base movement speed. For all non-mele volts, the expectation/hope is that the use of an ability that requires constant reapplication and a constant influx of energy should be better than what a single mod can do. There is further the expectation of Volt as a "speedy little frame", something that seems outpaced by the requirements to keep using his ability to keep that title. The counter expectation is that his ability still has uses where it does well (for mele volt) and has always been that way, so there is no real problem. All in all, it simply points back to the #3 main issue, He needs more mods to keep up with other Warframes than he has slots.

Furthermore the duration on Speed is one of the shortest of all the duration based activated abilities in the game. It ties with Loki's invisibility and is only slightly longer than Ash's Smoke screen, both of which allows the other frames to evade all damage. It also ties with Trinity's Blessing which gives up to 75% Damage Resistance to the entire team and a heal. Volt's ability is no where near on par with those, especially since movement speed is not a significantly power enhancing stat (even if it is fun). The closest comparison is in Valkyr's Warcry which costs 50% more, but lasts 50% longer, has 3 effects instead of 2, the 2 effects that are not common of both abilities are easily as or more powerful than Volt's movement speed buff, and has an augment that can let it last forever on one casting. This complaint has been somewhat answered by the ability being now recastable (somewhat argued as being rather a compensation for the newly added slow activation of the ability), but understanding why people see the duration as being less than they might rightly expect can help to ease a lot of tension. Seriously, it requires a full Primed Continuity to just make up for that lost 5 seconds, whereas starting with that 5 seconds already there would allow the single primed continuity to bring the duration up to about 24 seconds. The soluton to this short duration? More mods... And we again return to our #3 issue.

Volt's shield, for all it's good things, didn't fix his defense problem for such a mobile frame. The solution people came up with? Spam them. Trying to make an airtight perimiter of them was half the reason for the spam, but it was the only solution he had (especially since so much of his kit tries to push him toward the front line of the group). For those people wondering why the shield limit was complained about, and is even still mentioned now: this is it. His defense is still low, but spamming shields means that older shields (such as ones you left to guard the defense target or your allies) may suddenly disappear. This is one of those times when there are no hopes, only divergent expectations. Some people would say "what do you even need more than 4 or 6 shields for anyway?" and would expect that a limit is not unduly restricting. Without understanding the shield-spammy playstyle of a mobile "shield volt" people just don't understand how the change breaks the longstanding expectations of how people want and have found joy in playing. The change to 6 still hurt, but was at least enough that shields could be used for incidental purposes (such as reviving a teammate) without unavoidably dropping protection somewhere else.

People expect, rightly so, that a frame can survive doing what they are built to do. Volt has exactly 1 ability that is not centered on himself (at mele range), so he has a real need to be toward the front of the group where the action is. Unfortunately he lacks the defense to be there safely. This goes back to the #3 issue again. What we got instead was the Riot Shield. All in all, it wasn't a bad idea. When we heard about it there was the expectation that this would do it's job to allow low level players to survive with the frame. There was even the hope that it would give Volt more build options. The problem was the restrictions and cost. What actually happened was that the build required to make the Riot Shield work was even MORE restricting than what he had needed before with "shield-spam volt" and completely unusable by new players. I emplore anyone who believes that the cost is acceptable to try using the ability without corrupted mods and without Zenerik, even just "without Zererik" would probably be enough. Or lets put it in another way: Ivara's Prowl makes her functionally immune to damage and gives her a headshot bonus and lets her steal but it only costs either 1 or a flat 3 energy per second depending on movement (base). Volt's Riot Shield costs 5 energy per second, plus more energy for movement, PLUS the initial casting cost. Yes, these are actual numbers, his current state is LITERALLY that bad. And what of the other restrictions? Painful in their own ways that will need to be delt with, but still nothing compared with the cost that makes the ability completely unusable. This is all #1 issues, so hopefully I don't need to say much more. All we expect or hope for here is a usable ability. And trying to just use more and more mods to fix all these problems leads to another familiar problem: Not enough mods or slots. Aaaand #3, again.

Finally we come to his Discharge. Lets start by clearing this up. It isn't a "freeze things three rooms away" ability, the ability pathing makes that basically impossible. In fact, if enemies are at multiple levels in a room there is a good chance they are far enough away to be immune. The duration may be good against grineer, but against basically anyone else the duration is less than Frost's #4 Avalanche. Frost's avalanche can have the duration increased, but the limit on Discharge is damage cap induced and so cannot be easily increased. And the lack of an instant application and the long casting time is not something that frost has to deal with either. Furthermore the ground locking, in light of all that, should be simply ignored. Try going against Lv40 non-Grineer (and non-Corrupted-Grineer) enemies and see what happens. People complained about Mag's polarize (then a #2 ability) only being good against one faction, now Volt has an ultimate (#4 ability) that is nearly as restricted but has far more downsides to use and isn't as one-shottingly powerful. If Discharge is to be a CC ability, than it needs to be reliable; but either way it absolutely needs to be useful against all factions at all levels. Still, in all but a few circumstances that were so specific as to make the ability nearly unviable for regular use, it is more powerful than his old #4; so many people are now pointing out that it is better and not understanding why others are still upset. Simply put, the ability went from "bad in all but a few specific circumstances VS one specific faction" to "bad in all but a few different and somewhat less specific circumstances VS one different specific faction"; understandably this is neither what players hoped nor expected to be the end result. Again, the abilitiy's damage can't compare with what weapons can do, so it can't work well as a straight damage ability to replace weapons.

---------------------------------------------------

TL/DR:

1. Riot Shield has too many restrictions, most notably being an insane cost of use.

2. Discharge's stun is unreliable and unduly dangerous to use.

3. Volt and Volt Prime are numerically weaker than their counterparts and need more mods than they have slots to be on par.

I don't know if anyone at DE is still paying attention, but if so please know that these three things absolutely need fixing. Pretty much EVERYONE agrees with these three issues. The first one isn't even all that hard to fix. There are some other things that can use some tweaking as part or in addition to those three, but those three really are the consensus of the vast majority of people here.

.....

Bumped

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

My dream:

Shock should extend and charge volts other abilities.

Volts shock should be capable of creating one or more tesla coils like discharge. One for starters.

When shock is cast on an airborne target with no near enemy, it will have volt primes shock animation, striking down to the ground and leaving a smaller coil with shorter duration. 

Shock will tesla coil the environment where it strikes.

Shocking a tesla coil will cause a real aoe burst, sparks like when you replay a ground slam attack in slow motion, but visually there for all to see. This will also cause the target (environmental also) to "overload", dealing small extra damage to chained targets, while causing that target to fall to the ground.

A tesla coil (shock and discharge) will have aduration based on the ability (explained further), and power duration, not on a health cap. The tesla coils on the environment will fade over time. Because there is no health cap, the longer you can drag it out, the more damage you do, but damage falls off over time, based on power strength. The timer will appear over the ult icon, which shows only the most recent coils timer. Shock can increase the timer.

Volt, during and out of speed, will receive a speed boost when running over a coiled area. you may "blink" in this fashion maybe....

Speed "energizes the surround area" around volt, leaving enemies covered in static electricity (extra passive gains). Using speed and attacking a coiled target will give energy, the way saryn gets energy from spores and toxic lash. This will not decrease the damage the coil does to the target as energy is taken (matrix, using humans as energy sources)

Casting shock on electric sheild will slightly increase its timer. A charged shield will stun enemies that come into contact with it (shield is essentially tesla coiled) but has a limit to the amount of enemies it can hold, let's say 3. Shock will still tesla coil stuff normally through it still.

Discharge : my issue with this 

1) Area of effect crowd stuns with no need for line of sight. It has the potential to be worse than molecular prime or prism could ever hope to be. And at this point, blade storm is a more interactive ability. 

If the old mechanics for overload had been kept onto discharge, you could flip into a room, hit volts 4 in the air, then keep going, and coil everything standing next to a light. That, plus the addition of spreading along the ground and between enemies, and then you get over powered (but that's probably how it would look in a warframe trailer). So they cant all coexist as mechanics for how it works....or maybe they could?

2) Delay between casts. Cant be cast in the air. Requires you to be closer to your targets and expose yourself to incoming damage. A safe way to cast the ability is to make sure you set aside energy for sheilds and then discharge, or a cheaper option is to run capacitance and pray some enemy doesn't come around the corner and hit you before you finish the animation (scorpions are fun things they are).

---> with Discharge, the developers made a decision, that being that to make one thing better, another thing had to be sacrificed, and they did this to every part of volts kit aside from shock. 

I think the tesla coil was brilliant, but the stun takes too much for what it pretends to give (fun)

When I think of discharge (and electricity damage in general), and what I would want from it, I picture things like the matrix (the giant electirical towers), time travel orbs in the terminator series, bio shock infinite, infamous 1 and 2, any electricity in an orokin tileset, preferably moon, Azula from Atla, Raiden, God of War, the kraken from Evolve, Enel from one piece, lightning outside my freaking window during a storm.....

Discharge is a 2 step ability like inaros scarb armor. Pressing 4 will slow down the build up counter on your static charge passive, until it goes negative and starts taking energy from you, charging up your discharge. Coils from previous casts of shock and discharge will be drawn to you as well, and as you go, you will be a walking/running/bullet jumping tesla coil. When you hold 4, volt will unleash all of this onto his surroundings and wreck face. If you run out of energy before discharging, you start to lose your pent up energy. It is essentially toggle drain shocking speed, but better.

--->damage cap. Like inaros, Volt will have a little number at the top, the quantity of 4. You build up to this, and that is your damage cap, moddable by power strength and duration.

The stun duration and health cap are no longer directly connected, as the damage cap is apart of the first phase, and the stun is apart of the second. The damage cap is not a limit on how much damage an enemy can take, but on how long they take the maximum amount before it tapers off. From power line sitting in water damage, to jumper cables, to a small taser, to licking the shiny end of a battery damage (what we are given most often in game). 

The stun is shorter, but also affected by the build-up. Maybe at something like 4/6/8/10 base strength. And increased by some small amount (same as sheild) by shock.

Summary: The longer you charge up volts abilities, the stronger they get. Discharge cast instantly is just a short stun like a taser, but cast after build up is more like using a pair of jumper cables to do the same job (or power lines), leaving enemies paralyzed. My hope is that doesn't sound too tedious...

Riot shield should be bearable with energy gains and speed boosts from tesla coils, as well as shock increasing the duration of shield.

What I am hoping for with the stun, is that it's duration might still reach up to 30 seconds, but all duration, energy gains, and any possible benefit that could be received from the effec besides the enemy standing still drops off after 10 seconds.

Tl;DR : Shock can tesla coil stuff and extend timers. Shock helps make the rest of his kit bearable. Speed gets energy from tesla coils and increases passive gains. Sheild finally stops at least one or two things from walking through. Riot shield is built around so it can be used. Discharge isn't just about a stun.

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[Wolfnrun]

@(PS4)WINDMILEYNO Bringing the disccusion back to reworking electricity/ electric procs, it currently deals less damage to stunned enemies, how about +50% bonus damage per every chained enemie(s)??? Also increasing the stun duratiion to 6 seconds and dealt DoT during the 6 seconds

[Toramaru]

6 minutes ago, Wolfnrun said:

@(PS4)WINDMILEYNO Bringing the disccusion back to reworking electricity/ electric procs, it currently deals less damage to stunned enemies, how about +50% bonus damage per every chained enemie(s)??? Also increasing the stun duratiion to 6 seconds and dealt DoT during the 6 seconds

Tbh sir, that's starting to sound a bit op imho.

 

[Wolfnrun]

Just now, Toramaru said:

Tbh sir, that's starting to sound a bit op imho.

 

Eh, maybe, just wanted throw an idea out there, if damage 3.0 touches this area and volt, even just a little, I would be moderatly satisfied 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

4 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

Eh, maybe, just wanted throw an idea out there, if damage 3.0 touches this area and volt, even just a little, I would be moderatly satisfied 

I will say this : electric damage is good for one thing only. Somehow, the devs did something right, and that thing is that while running a stealth mission, I am often able to take down 2 or 3 closely grouped enemies at a time, because for some reason, electricity damage seems cause all enemies to share the damage from stealth attacks, And volts passive makes it a sure thing.

One thing. 

if electricity spread on proc to very nearby enemies, and shared smaller percentages of total weapon damage....automatic weapons would be beastly

As well as new visuals, and we would be getting somewhere in life

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

4 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

@(PS4)WINDMILEYNO Bringing the disccusion back to reworking electricity/ electric procs, it currently deals less damage to stunned enemies, how about +50% bonus damage per every chained enemie(s)??? Also increasing the stun duratiion to 6 seconds and dealt DoT during the 6 seconds

That'd be crazy:p but sounds like itd be fun with an amprex:p

I do wish tesla coiled enemies would do something, be useful in some synergetic way besides standing around....

[Cytobel]

Wishing for usefulness out of Electricity is a bit much.  The Devs are horrified at the thought of buffing the Lanka's element.

Honestly it's terrible design logic and poor forsight.  The Lanka should have a better model than the old Snipetron and do Magnetic damage instead of Electricity.  You have to put 3 elemental mods in anyway, why not just fix a gun so you can fix the dead base elemental damage type?  Heck, I don't understand why it isn't just IPS, if there was a need to water it down.  Magnetic damage is solid, so this wouldn't even nerf the damn thing.

Then we look at the possibility of making electrical damage useful (maybe a la Path of Exile's damage amp idea or something), so people stop and consider running it straight in a gun...

Once that happens, we may see mechanical alterations to Volt that make him more of a useful part of the team.  Fact is he's still designed to be a DPS, and as long as the only thing holding him back from that is a bad design decision reguarding Damage 2.0 we won't take either Volt or Electrical damage seriously.  Volt's main issue is that Electricity has problems.  In my opinion, until that's addressed appropriately we won't have a Volt that feels well put together.

Again, Damage 3.0 isn't out yet so we don't have a chance to put together the traits Volt needs with the abilities he has and NOT have someone (correctly) whining about something being OP.  Until we are at the point of a damage system that works we won't have a chance of all the elemental 'Frames being equally viable.

VOLT ISN'T BAD RIGHT NOW.  There are QoL issues and things that bother me; that's not the same as everything being awful.  I have taken stock of my problems multiple times, and we can all sing along by now.  For the moment I'm doing other things to keep busy, just in the off chance someone decides to fix things this year.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Cytobel

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

I have an honest question. 

I have shocked tesla coiled enemies, over and over and over and over.

I have never seen any remarkable effect, visual, or damage wise, to them or the enemies surrounding them. Nothing happens. If anything does happen, the effect is so miniscule, it's overshadowed by shock itself affecting the enemy.

UNLESS.....

DE is trying to be funny, and saying that shocks normal visual affects and damage count as a special interaction with the Tesla coil...that would actually be funny 

 

[Cytobel]

The interaction is a spoon.

There is no spoon.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

39 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

The interaction is a spoon.

There is no spoon.

One can only hope you said that because you read and sort of liked my rework ideas....

That or your just a fan of the matrix too.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

"Discharge : my issue with this 

1) Area of effect crowd stuns with no need for line of sight. It has the potential to be worse than molecular prime or prism could ever hope to be. And at this point, blade storm is a more interactive ability"

Shamelessly spamming my veiwpoint, because I want to keep talking about volt for some reason....

[Wolfnrun]

9 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Shamelessly spamming my veiwpoint, because I want to keep talking about volt for some reason....

Same here, even though mine are visibily missing... It's fun to come up with ideas though it makes things intresting

Edited September 10, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Toramaru]

On 09/09/2016 at 5:06 AM, Cytobel said:

VOLT ISN'T BAD RIGHT NOW.  There are QoL issues and things that bother me; that's not the same as everything being awful.

I don't agree, sir. I believe Volt is facing, along with QoL issues, several less than ideal design ideas.

One example is his kit. No matter how synergic skills are, the whole idea behind Speed and his passive is to inhibit stationary plays. His ES on the other hand offers the oposite mindset.

The prohibitive Riot version is also a good example of bad design.

No offense meant towards DE. It just is clear that balances and redesigns are need.ed

Edited September 12, 2016 by Toramaru

[RealPandemonium]

4 hours ago, Toramaru said:

I don't agree, sir. I believe Volt is facing, along with QoL issues, several less than ideal design ideas.

One example is his kit. No matter how synergic skills are, the whole idea behind Speed and his passive is to inhibit stationary plays. His ES on the other hand offers the oposite mindset.

The prohibitive Riot version is also a good example of bad design.

No offense meant towards DE. It just is clear that balances and redesigns are need.ed

Shield lends itself to mobility.  You can be "present" in multiple places at once by dropping shields for point defense and moving around among them.  Camping behind shields is your choice; it is neither mandatory nor optimal most of the time.  

[Cytobel]

11 hours ago, Toramaru said:

I don't agree, sir. I believe Volt is facing, along with QoL issues, several less than ideal design ideas.

*snip*

As I said, there are several things about Volt that bother me.  We've covered all the major wonkiness already (you mentioned some of it in post), and the issues of design are a BIG part of what bothers me.  I've grown to hate Electric Shield (electricity just doesn't work like that and it's bothered me), and I've always loathed Speed since it became a team buff.  That was when the Speed build saw its genesis, both for trolling purposes and to compensate for the 50% reduction in power.

However, I'm beginning to feel like Volt balances almost perfectly at top end for utility and power.  It becomes a matter of him being more than the sum of his parts, which is very good because of how bad some of those parts can be.

Volt is a 'Frame I'd redesign skills on entirely, or perhaps pioneer the option to choose between different skill options.  Imagine having the choice between 2-3 different options for a first, second, and third ability.  Not sure I'd have more than one alternative ultimate, if that much.  It's kind of an ultimate, after all.

Basically, why do I have to choose which skills I'm getting value out of?  Kind of unreasonable IMHO.  And not just for Volt either.  No 'Frame should have only 1-2 abilities that work, build or not.  Skills that functionally exclude each other or are mutually opposed for build requirements should have optional alternatives.  This would give us alternative play styles and build options that could truly take advantage of the possibilities of the mod system.

Design hiccups aside, I enjoy Volt overall.  This is good, because there are many points I detest about him (and every other 'Frame).  I would like to see expansion of build possibilities, not another pointless bout of redesign.  That's where the idea for alternative skills came from.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Cytobel
expansion on the idea