Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Insizer]

Jesus, this thread just never dies, and I have no idea why. Volt is in a good place now.

[YagoXiten]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

Actually, unlike Overload, Discharge doesn't deal more damage to clustered targets since it doesn't actually inflict any procs at all; the damage that each coil deals per target within its radius is always limited by the health cap but as long as all targets are within range of at least one coil, it will take the same number of casts to kill one enemy or X number of enemies of the same EHP.  

Not exactly. Each target can deal a maximum of the health cap in damage before they are freed from the Tesla Coil effect. However, the more enemies clustered, the faster that health cap is reached. Your total damage might not increase, but your DPS does rather dramatically. And furthermore, there's also the Shock + Discharge effect, which releases an AoE pulse.

 

7 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I would like to see procs tied back into Discharge.  It is an Ultimate, after all.  The spikes of damage caused by procs need not factor towards the HP cap either.  That'd give us a bit more real power to the ability without "reinventing the wheel".  Moreover it'd be hilarious to watch tesla'd foes randomly proc as their electronics overload (or whatever).  Point is, it'd be nice to have AND suspension of disbelief can fit in.

@YagoXiten:  I made a mistake of oversimplification by simply using the term "armor" when I should've said "defense".  Point on the issue of DoT weirdness is that some aspects of how damage is computed wind up feeling very strange, thanks to a less than transparent mixture of enemy hp scaling, armor scaling, and a static set of resistances.  This of course ignores those weird edge cases with random modifiers (or whatever the hell is going on that was screwing with testing numbers on abilities when I tried it for myself).

Honestly though, whether armor takes it's chunk of damage off right up front or per tick, it should balance the same.  I don't think the damage calculator is quite so clean and easy as that though.  I hate to say "it just feels off", but that's the case.  Mind you I'm all for defense having the advantage over damage.  It becomes more a problem when enemies scale beyond players so radically as they can often do in Warframe.

Heck, because I'm falling back to "it feels off" we know I'm not bringing the full force of logic to bear here.  That's why I'm not telling you you're wrong.  Hell, I'd bet scaling was throwing my sense of the numbers quite badly.  On the other hand I'm not certain by what method mitigation takes its bites off incoming DoT ticks, or other damage for that matter.  I've read what was said and I've seen how the game does things; they don't always agree.

What is happening is that, against Alloy armor, the enemy has effectively 1.5x the armor they usually do, and then after it is applied, your damage is halved.

 

Assuming my memory is working correctly, a target with 200 Alloy armor hit for 1,000 Electric damage actually takes 250, because their armor is increased to 300, and then halved.

5 minutes ago, Insizer said:

Jesus, this thread just never dies, and I have no idea why. Volt is in a good place now.

Volt's still riddled with issues. But he's no worse than he was before, so he's still alright.

[Insizer]

6 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Volt's still riddled with issues. But he's no worse than he was before, so he's still alright.

I main Volt and have since open beta first came out. I don't see him "riddled with issues" at all. The biggest issue imo is his description because he is not made for damage rather utility. It should read "buff to gunplay" rather than "alternative to gunplay". Frankly, he's one of the least problematic frames in the game. That's why I am confused as to why people are still in a tizzy over him apparently.

Once you get past the disappointment over his damage capability caused by his element's innate weakness to one of the most common armor type in the game and his element's lack of super-effectiveness against pretty much everything else, then you find that he's a great jack-of-all-trades in the game, that he's like duct-tape. He's not the best solution for most anything, but he's an effective solution for basically everything.

Sure, I'd like to see a new passive or a better version of his current passive, but he's more than alright where he is now.

[YagoXiten]

27 minutes ago, Insizer said:

I main Volt and have since open beta first came out. I don't see him "riddled with issues" at all. The biggest issue imo is his description because he is not made for damage rather utility. It should read "buff to gunplay" rather than "alternative to gunplay". Frankly, he's one of the least problematic frames in the game. That's why I am confused as to why people are still in a tizzy over him apparently.

Once you get past the disappointment over his damage capability caused by his element's innate weakness to one of the most common armor type in the game and his element's lack of super-effectiveness against pretty much everything else, then you find that he's a great jack-of-all-trades in the game, that he's like duct-tape. He's not the best solution for most anything, but he's an effective solution for basically everything.

Sure, I'd like to see a new passive or a better version of his current passive, but he's more than alright where he is now.

The reason we're in a tizzy over it isn't because Volt is bad. It's because Volt is not as good as he could be, and that the rework did very little to add to him.

Shock's interactions are almost useless, the Riot Electric Shield feature is nigh unusable, he has one of the best and most fun melee steroids in the game, but is too squishy to utilize it, Shock doesn't scale in its stun or damage (and the stun can be unreliable, since it is proc based and certain enemy animations ignore it), and Discharge still feels lacking, offering nothing unique as far as room stun nukes go, and it can be unreliable for CC against clustered enemies.

And finally, modding Volt doesn't present many options. Defensive mods are almost wasted, since they do little to help his fragility in Sortie level content (especially when melee and if you're camping in Electric Shield tents you might as well forgo them entirely), utility mods are amazing fun but add nothing to increase his scaling, and he doesn't scale particularly well with any of the stats. If you try to scale for the only one of his powers that is actually significantly affected by anything, Speed, you usually end up still wanting Fleeting Expertise, on top of Transient Fortitude and/or Blind Rage, which means you take Narrow-Minded and have a dead ability in Discharge. He's still good no matter how you build him, or what you do, but there isn't a whole lot of min/maxing potential or variance in playsyles, and that's a bit of a let down.

[Insizer]

10 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

The reason we're in a tizzy over it isn't because Volt is bad. It's because Volt is not as good as he could be, and that the rework did very little to add to him.

Shock's interactions are almost useless, the Riot Electric Shield feature is nigh unusable, he has one of the best and most fun melee steroids in the game, but is too squishy to utilize it, Shock doesn't scale in its stun or damage (and the stun can be unreliable, since it is proc based and certain enemy animations ignore it), and Discharge still feels lacking, offering nothing unique as far as room stun nukes go, and it can be unreliable for CC against clustered enemies.

And finally, modding Volt doesn't present many options. Defensive mods are almost wasted, since they do little to help his fragility in Sortie level content (especially when melee and if you're camping in Electric Shield tents you might as well forgo them entirely), utility mods are amazing fun but add nothing to increase his scaling, and he doesn't scale particularly well with any of the stats. If you try to scale for the only one of his powers that is actually significantly affected by anything, Speed, you usually end up still wanting Fleeting Expertise, on top of Transient Fortitude and/or Blind Rage, which means you take Narrow-Minded and have a dead ability in Discharge. He's still good no matter how you build him, or what you do, but there isn't a whole lot of min/maxing potential or variance in playsyles, and that's a bit of a let down.

• I never said that y'all said he was bad, more misunderstood if anything.
• I don't see how Riot shield is unusable at all considering I use it often.
• I'll grant you the melee point, but I view Speed's effect on melee more as a gimmick rather than a serious tactic because you need serious defenses in order to make melee practical on higher levels.
• Any scaling to Shock would lowered due to his electrical damage's match-ups. But I guess damage-build users would like it.
• I'll agree that Discharge still feels lacking, but it is better than Overload so I'm not complaining. It does its job.
• I don't see how modding is an issue nor how he doesn't scale well with any stats at all. Duration for one is great for Volt. It buffs his E.Shield and Riot Shield dramatically, and provides an alternative to building strength for Speed.
  • The only issue that I see here is that there aren't that many practical builds and is not friendly to other stats. i'll admit this is an issue, a larger one for a beginner's frame.
  • I've used pretty much the same build since I first got Volt. This was before corrupted mods and the like. It works wonders with few mods. It uses both Vitality and Redirection and still has a mod slot or so left for me to throw random stuff in.

I guess my issue with your "riddled with issues" post was more a manner of definitions. To me "riddled" means a dramatic amount of serious issues or a series of very serious issues, which Volt, imo doesn't have, unlike Ivara (that is another rant). He has some issues, some important, just as any other frame. But as he is now, I find him to be one of the most effective and easiest to use frames in the game and one that scales fairly well due to E.Shield and Shock's stun disregard for level.

[RealPandemonium]

Lol, no one is tanky outside of power abuse at Sortie level, so that's a non-point.  We should not be expecting to survive sustained melee-only gameplay in Sorties.  The damage that Sortie-level enemies deal is excessive and is only worked-around by excessively powerful weapons and game-trivializing powers.  Getting rid of 70+ content should be a priority in player feedback, but many think that it's just fine when it's really the source of many of our issues.  

Edited September 28, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, Insizer said:

Jesus, this thread just never dies, and I have no idea why. Volt is in a good place now.

People keep saying that. I want the thread to die too, but that just baits me on...

There is so much suckage.

He may be in a good place if you consider a sidegrade from the original a step forward in life.

....

 

[voltocitygel]

1 hour ago, Insizer said:

• I never said that y'all said he was bad, more misunderstood if anything.
• I don't see how Riot shield is unusable at all considering I use it often.
• I'll grant you the melee point, but I view Speed's effect on melee more as a gimmick rather than a serious tactic because you need serious defenses in order to make melee practical on higher levels.
• Any scaling to Shock would lowered due to his electrical damage's match-ups. But I guess damage-build users would like it.
• I'll agree that Discharge still feels lacking, but it is better than Overload so I'm not complaining. It does its job.
• I don't see how modding is an issue nor how he doesn't scale well with any stats at all. Duration for one is great for Volt. It buffs his E.Shield and Riot Shield dramatically, and provides an alternative to building strength for Speed.
  • The only issue that I see here is that there aren't that many practical builds and is not friendly to other stats. i'll admit this is an issue, a larger one for a beginner's frame.
  • I've used pretty much the same build since I first got Volt. This was before corrupted mods and the like. It works wonders with few mods. It uses both Vitality and Redirection and still has a mod slot or so left for me to throw random stuff in.

Riot shield is considered "unusable" by most, given its energy drain. It drains energy per second, per meter traveled, and has a duration. Most people won't have the energy income to sustain this for long, let alone continuously.

otherwise, you make a good point.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Shock should tesla coil.

Speed should have increased duration to 15 seconds from 10

They should come up with a better opt out for it.

The shock+discharge interaction needs to be real.

They need to be realistic with where they expect volt to be getting energy from (Saryn toxic lash+spore interaction), especially since riot sheild is supposed to be an acceptable thing.

Discharge needs to allow for survivability. Even if sliding, there is an small amount of time where you are open to all enemy damage unless you take cover. Ground slamming into enemies, throwing up sheilds, hiding behind stair cases all helps, but the risk for reward ( danger for infinite stun) is not worth it, and who ever thought that drwa back was necessary needs to go on a vacation.

My nerf rant on the cheese:

A stun ability should not be Aoe, or, if it is, it should require a set up, like saryns damage (it's too simple minded). 

Volt should do stun with shock, discharge should not be indefinite, shocking the same enemies will reset their damage cap as the tick, discharge on shocked enemies would be a big pay off.

Nova should slow/or damage enemies affected by molecular prime with antimatter drop ( so molecular prime only has one or the other, not both slow and extra damage)...

Rhinos roar should cause enemies hit by stomp to float...

Stuff like that.

 

 

[voltocitygel]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Shock should tesla coil.

Speed should have increased duration to 15 seconds from 10

They should come up with a better opt out for it.

The shock+discharge interaction needs to be real.

They need to be realistic with where they expect volt to be getting energy from (Saryn toxic lash+spore interaction), especially since riot sheild is supposed to be an acceptable thing.

Discharge needs to allow for survivability. Even if sliding, there is an small amount of time where you are open to all enemy damage unless you take cover. Ground slamming into enemies, throwing up sheilds, hiding behind stair cases all helps, but the risk for reward ( danger for infinite stun) is not worth it, and who ever thought that drwa back was necessary needs to go on a vacation.

My nerf rant on the cheese:

A stun ability should not be Aoe, or, if it is, it should require a set up, like saryns damage (it's too simple minded). 

Volt should do stun with shock, discharge should not be indefinite, shocking the same enemies will reset their damage cap as the tick, discharge on shocked enemies would be a big pay off.

Nova should slow/or damage enemies affected by molecular prime with antimatter drop ( so molecular prime only has one or the other, not both slow and extra damage)...

Rhinos roar should cause enemies hit by stomp to float...

Stuff like that.

 

 

So what you're saying is less individual powers strength and provide the same bonuses as synergy effects? Correct me if I'm wrong, but making the "cheese" cost more energy won't fix it. There's this thing called EV trin. 

I agree that there should be more synergy between warframes (all) abilities, whether by the two abilities working well together without bonuses (mesa's shooting gallery and peacemaker), or added bonuses to make them work well (saryns spores and miasma). I just don't think that's the way to do it. 

Many warframes have nice amounts of synergy already, but some do not. Reworks should create that, and have- mag and saryns abilities all interact to make them more powerful than their original, more powerful abilities were.

volt has shock interact with shield and supposedly with discharge. Speed interacts with riot shield. While that's fine and all, it doesn't seem like enough. 

Mags shield polarize interacts with both magnetize and crush. Saryns spores interact with literally every single other one of her abilities, plus her abilities synergize with toxin based status effects. Ember's accelerant ups the potential of her other three abilities. Mesa's first two abilities augment gunplay as well as her ult. 

There are two ends of this spectrum. Strong individual powers with little interaction, or weak individual powers that interact to massive effect, and everything in between. Volt is at least better off interaction wise than a lot of others, but isn't a synergy powerhouse. Yes, speed is short. Yes, riot shield is costly. Yes, electrified shields do minor damage without much merit. Yes, discharge's interaction with shock is almost unnoticeable in visual and practical effect. 

A few small changes would make everyone here who's complaining very happy, as I see it, whether they come sooner or later:

Make shield affected by shock proc electric damage on anything that touches it. Make discharge and shock have an actual interaction. Make volts passive a little better somehow, and work exponentially better while under speed's effects rather than just linearly. (Remove charge cap or make it so that 1 instance of damage doesn't completely remove the charge, but still deals full listed damage. Say, 1k charge. Fire. Hit. Deal 1k extra electric damage. Current damage total for next hit is now reduced to 500.) increase shock proc's priority in animations, so it can interrupt things like bombard ground slam shockwaves. Remove some restrictions from riot shield so it doesn't feel more costly than it's worth. 

I could go on, but it seems like beating a dead horse. Very rarely do I see new points brought up. Mostly opinions, and complaining about how the theme and design isn't what they wanted. It happens, and there are other damage oriented frames out there. Volt took his place as damage / utility, rather than almost pure damage as he once was. That's the beauty of warframe- it's always changing, always evolving. Who knows, maybe a year from now the game will feel completely different than it does now? 

Sometimes we'll all miss certain points and have our nostalgic moments. But overall, I still think the game is improving, and I love it. I hope all of you can feel the same way. 

[Insizer]

1 hour ago, voltocitygel said:

Riot shield is considered "unusable" by most, given its energy drain. It drains energy per second, per meter traveled, and has a duration. Most people won't have the energy income to sustain this for long, let alone continuously.

otherwise, you make a good point.

Sure, I'd like it if the drain were lowered/gotten rid of or something along those lines because it is on the high side. But I run a duration + efficiency. Even without Zenurik (yes I've done it) it isn't enough to render it unusable. Yes, it would be unusable if you don't give a crap about duration or efficiency but I don't see that many Volt players who are like that.  

[voltocitygel]

3 minutes ago, Insizer said:

Sure, I'd like it if the drain were lowered/gotten rid of or something along those lines because it is on the high side. But I run a duration + efficiency. Even without Zenurik (yes I've done it) it isn't enough to render it unusable. Yes, it would be unusable if you don't give a crap about duration or efficiency but I don't see that many Volt players who are like that.  

Yes, but I was also referring to cost effectiveness. It's way more energy than it's worth, regardless of how well you mod for it.

Edited September 28, 2016 by voltocitygel
Clarification

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, voltocitygel said:

So what you're saying is less individual powers strength and provide the same bonuses as synergy effects? Correct me if I'm wrong, but making the "cheese" cost more energy won't fix it. There's this thing called EV trin. 

I agree that there should be more synergy between warframes (all) abilities, whether by the two abilities working well together without bonuses (mesa's shooting gallery and peacemaker), or added bonuses to make them work well (saryns spores and miasma). I just don't think that's the way to do it. 

Many warframes have nice amounts of synergy already, but some do not. Reworks should create that, and have- mag and saryns abilities all interact to make them more powerful than their original, more powerful abilities were.

volt has shock interact with shield and supposedly with discharge. Speed interacts with riot shield. While that's fine and all, it doesn't seem like enough. 

Mags shield polarize interacts with both magnetize and crush. Saryns spores interact with literally every single other one of her abilities, plus her abilities synergize with toxin based status effects. Ember's accelerant ups the potential of her other three abilities. Mesa's first two abilities augment gunplay as well as her ult. 

There are two ends of this spectrum. Strong individual powers with little interaction, or weak individual powers that interact to massive effect, and everything in between. Volt is at least better off interaction wise than a lot of others, but isn't a synergy powerhouse. Yes, speed is short. Yes, riot shield is costly. Yes, electrified shields do minor damage without much merit. Yes, discharge's interaction with shock is almost unnoticeable in visual and practical effect. 

A few small changes would make everyone here who's complaining very happy, as I see it, whether they come sooner or later:

Make shield affected by shock proc electric damage on anything that touches it. Make discharge and shock have an actual interaction. Make volts passive a little better somehow, and work exponentially better while under speed's effects rather than just linearly. (Remove charge cap or make it so that 1 instance of damage doesn't completely remove the charge, but still deals full listed damage. Say, 1k charge. Fire. Hit. Deal 1k extra electric damage. Current damage total for next hit is now reduced to 500.) increase shock proc's priority in animations, so it can interrupt things like bombard ground slam shockwaves. Remove some restrictions from riot shield so it doesn't feel more costly than it's worth. 

I could go on, but it seems like beating a dead horse. Very rarely do I see new points brought up. Mostly opinions, and complaining about how the theme and design isn't what they wanted. It happens, and there are other damage oriented frames out there. Volt took his place as damage / utility, rather than almost pure damage as he once was. That's the beauty of warframe- it's always changing, always evolving. Who knows, maybe a year from now the game will feel completely different than it does now? 

Sometimes we'll all miss certain points and have our nostalgic moments. But overall, I still think the game is improving, and I love it. I hope all of you can feel the same way. 

I forgot to say that trinity should be changed.

Energy vampire and well of life need to switch mechanics for starters, blessing be toned down on healing and given something that makes it feel like a real ultimate, and not a copy of link combined with well of life, and while energy vampire has well of life's mechanics, it is less effective, but can be cast in multiple enemies

I share your sentiments, some of them, but volt is just my favourite frame, and....I can't let it go easily

Edited September 28, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[voltocitygel]

1 minute ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I forgot to say that trinity should be changed.

Energy vampire and well of life need to switch mechanics for starters, blessing be tones down on healing and given something that makes it feel like a real ultimate, and not a copy of link combined with well of life, and while energy vampire has well of life's mechanics, it is less effective, but can be cast in multiple enemies

I share your sentiments, some of them, but volt is just my favourite frame, and 

I certainly agree with EV and well of life having their mechanics reversed- it makes much more sense gameplay wise and description wise. Energy VAMPIRE and WELL of life. Not life vampire and well of energy. >.< otherwise she's fine as is. But that's really not the topic here. 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

4 hours ago, voltocitygel said:

I certainly agree with EV and well of life having their mechanics reversed- it makes much more sense gameplay wise and description wise. Energy VAMPIRE and WELL of life. Not life vampire and well of energy. >.< otherwise she's fine as is. But that's really not the topic here. 

The topic here is old and tired.

My view of the topic is probably really really old and tired.

I'll keep posting volt ability ideas, somewhere else if not here.

[FitzSimmons]

16 hours ago, Insizer said:

Jesus, this thread just never dies, and I have no idea why. Volt is in a good place now.

ikr, i also dont understand why this thread still going

[Cytobel]

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 11:05 PM, FitzSimmons said:

ikr, i also dont understand why this thread still going

It would be dead and gone if DE hadn't tried to sweep it under the rug after basically ignoring feedback.  I'm not saying they weren't aware of the feedback either, but that they simply gave not one S#&amp;&#036; about it.  They weren't particularly wrong to decide what they wanted Volt to do and be.  They just shouldn't have pretended they cared what we thought.

Let's be honest here: not everyone would've been pleased with the simple QoL changes to make Riot Shield more viable than not*, some sort of useful Shock--Discharge interaction, a simple electric proc on a Shock-charged ES, and SOME SORT of method for regaining energy faster.  We could've come up with more we could want, but I am goddamn certain this thread would've died months ago had those basic steps been taken or at least addressed by someone...

We're sitting here chewing the same cud, not because we like it, but because we need more out of this rework than could be gleaned in the first place.  Volt has the most restrictive build needs I've seen, and I've been playing since closed beta too.  He benefits from everything (which is good), but he also feels like he needs more of everything to be successful (which is not).  I've been following the theory of Duration//Efficiency since the rework, but now that I shift back towards Strength//Duration (with Stretch and Streamline of course) I find he just feels so much better.  The price was discarding any hope of using Riot Shield EVER.

That's rather the problem, isn't it?  No matter how you build Volt, he has a dump skill.  I've decided to forget trying to use the new kit and I'm using him like I used to, before this rework.  It seems to me like a terrible waste of time for everyone involved to even try something like this if you're not going to follow through.  That's my beef with DE.

I suppose a decent analogy for the situation would be this:  Volt is like one of those plates of food you might expect to see at a multiple Michelin Star restaurant.  Yes, it may be quite intricate.  Yes, it might be quite good in its way.  Yes, it might be an experience.  Unfortunately, you must be gastronomially experienced to hope to be able to appreciate what boils down to a $50 bite on a plate.  Worse still, it's not going to be a filling bite either.  Much in the same way, what we have may be good, but we don't have enough of it to work with.

I've lost count of the times I've dearly wished for just one more mod slot, or the ability to put an augment into a special slot of its own so I had the space for one more tweak.  I've used the term "overbalanced" to describe the feeling, but "watered-down" or"diluted" would work just as well.  I keep trying to get that last little bit out of the build, but to no avail.  Volt just can't do enough to keep up with the demands, and there isn't any way to take him past limitations I simply don't find in other similar 'Frames.  This might be part of his "uniqueness" to some, but it is also referred to as "poor performance" by others.

I acknowledge that I see things differently from some.  I see Volt as a potent off-DPS/Support that is held back by a lack of both of those things.  He's an Energy Shield dispensor to people I run with, one that sometimes uses abilities to lockdown a room for the few moments before everything dies to gunfire, never getting the chance to regenerate others' shields.  The way we play Warframe marginalizes any skills Volt has due to his dated ability lineup that was designed in a another, different age.

The rework was an opportunity to update Volt to the realities of Warframe today.  By and large, that opportunity wasn't utilized.  The good that came from it was outweighed by silent nerfs of his other skills, and even of the skills reworked.  'Round-and-around we went, to end where we started with the rework merry-go-round.

*(it's an energy tax with another energy tax on top of heavy restrictions for something that doesn't warrent nearly as much coding or headache DE had to go through in the first damn place to make it happen, let alone try to justify with a knockback)

Edited September 30, 2016 by Cytobel

[----Dante----]

this thread wont die untill main issues get adressed.

[FitzSimmons]

28 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

They just shouldn't have pretended they cared what we thought.

they do care, thats why volt get riot shield, thats players idea, not them. 

ermmm you dont have to be experienced to use volt, thats why he is already good with normal stat warframe, without primed, without corrupted, only ordinary mods and he is really good with only those. volt is simple, you want to stun without spend big energy? press 1, you want to run faster/faster atk speed? press 2, you need cover/more damage on your critical shoot? press 3, riot shield? zenurik. quick stun isn't enough because there are too many enemies around you, stun everything in the room with discharge. 

28 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Volt has the most restrictive build needs I've seen

seriously? how? volt is one among few warframes thats perform better when one of his stat isn't below 100%, primed continuity, primed flow, stretch, intensify, streamline. thats the best build i ever try which is balance. riot shield isn't a problem for me as long as im using zenurik. he is the easiest one to build for newbies. never in my life after rework volt has a dump skill, before rework overload is almost dump, thats why i dont drop volt from my loadout for other warframes except for trying builds on other warframes. but i think its matter of taste. excalibur is great, inaros is great, ivara is great, mesa is great, but still doesn't suit my taste to make me switch from volt as main warframe, before and after rework. 

Edited September 30, 2016 by FitzSimmons

[Cytobel]

@FitzSimmons:  Alright, so you managed to miss me repeatedly stating that I do not under any circumstances ever for any goddamn reason contemplate stats below 100% on Volt.  Okay, that's probably clear enough now.  Sorry for the bluntness, but I'm done restating this.

Normally I've been running 170% Str, 170% Eff, 145% Rng, and ~116% Dur.  The reasons this build is problematic are:

1.  Electric damage sucks leperous balls.  It's actively bad against Corpus (those shields) and Grineer (goddamn alloy armor), despite these being the only factions it might be GOOD against as they are the ones with Robotic/Machinery-type foes.  So I can zap Regulators, Rollers, and Latchers.  NOBODY CARES.

2.  Without at least this much Strength Speed feels like a dump skill.  It's a terrible waste of energy to run all of 50% faster when you can mod for that much BASELINE.  Moreover Speed lacks the Duration needed, so I keep hammering the fking button every 8 seconds.  Waste of effort for the most part.

3.  Without Stretch eating a mod slot I have to be humping something's leg to have Discharge hit the whole pack reliably.  With more the radius for tesla arcs is too great qnd foes break free before I am off the internal cooldown for the skill, thus negating the entire purpose of the move (as Volt isn't "about damage" anymore and still sucks at it).  Without Capacitance you don't use Discharge for anything but a stun.

4.  The use of Fleeting Expertise hurts.  Sadly, the lessened stress on my energy pool more than makes up for it.

5.  Vitality is in because Toxin and Bleed procs exist.

That statline (or my current 185% Str, 130% Eff, 145% Rng, 165% Dur) still relies very heavily on the use of Zenurik, and thus the wasting of several minutes before I'm "good to go".  I could always cheese things with Naramon again.  That worked pretty well.

Point is this: no matter what I do, I ALWAYS run positive builds, and Volt feels especially lackluster without significant bonuses to each and every stat he has.  Yes, I use Corrupted mods, but I usually stick to Narrow Minded and/or Transient Fortitude.  These are countered by Constitution and Primed Continuity.  Usually the need for range outweighs the benefits of Narrow Minded, but I would use it if I had the space.  Fleeting Expertise sucks, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

No. Other. 'Frame.  No other Warframe makes me agonize over each mod slot HALF as much.  No other 'Frame feels like it needs as much to Sortie.  I'll admit, some just don't feel up to the challenge to me, but only Volt is such a borderline case.

I main Volt.  I play him by choice and I don't CARE if he isn't numbers-wise "there".  I'm saying he isn't, but I will use him anyway, just because.

P.S., sorry if I came down on you a bit hard at the start.  I'm saying Volt is about 1-2 mod slots down because of the tightness of his build.  I've built Volt your way and it doesn't work for me at all.  He lacks performance because his abilities are slightly lacking in too many ways, his base stats are underwhelming, and he has no focus.  He's a jack-of-no-trades and he doesnt even have a role to play in a team.  And he's still my favorite 'Frame.

TL;DR:  The glass is half empty.  The rework didn't fix that; even made it slightly worse with quiet nerfs.

 

EDIT:  What I want from another Volt rework is simple.

-Bump normal Volt's armor (65) and energy pool (225 at max level), buff both Volts' sprint speed to 1.1 or 1.2.

-Shock needs interactions with Speed (hmmm...  maybe a Shocking Speed kind of thing...), it needs to reset the damage cap for tesla'd enemies, and Electric Shield needs to get electric procs when charged up.

-Speed needs 5 more seconds base duration.  That's about it.

Electric Shield needs the Shock interaction buffed and Riot Shield needs...  so much...  I'd settle for fewer costs and restrictions generally.  It's not worth so much of your energy pool and NOT WORTH A SPEED DEBUFF!

-Discharge could really use air cast (YOU FLOAT INTO THE FREAKING AIR TO CAST IT ANYWAY).

The passive needs to just do away with stored damage: it's bad design for a non-damage focused 'Frame.  Just give us a guaranteed electric proc on our next attack for moving and call it golden.  Else if people other than me have had good alternatives.

AND THAT'S IT.  This thread would die.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Cytobel

[Cytobel]

2 hours ago, FitzSimmons said:

*snip*

ermmm you dont have to be experienced to use volt, thats why he is already good with normal stat warframe, without primed, without corrupted, only ordinary mods and he is really good with only those. volt is simple, you want to stun without spend big energy? press 1, you want to run faster/faster atk speed? press 2, you need cover/more damage on your critical shoot? press 3, riot shield? zenurik. quick stun isn't enough because there are too many enemies around you, stun everything in the room with discharge.

*snip*

Sorry for splitting this up, but I realized I was running on.  AGAIN.  Also please understand I'm going to be salty.  This is all about the situation and not about you.  I DO NOT mean this to be an attack against you at all, but it is rather irritating.

Look, it's like this.  You start the game, pick a 'Frame, start playing.  10 days in and you're likely MR4 or -5 tops.  If you keep at it and struggle on you will level enough gear to eventually get to be able to run the Quests that unlock access to your Focus tree.

How many days of play is that?  How manu months can pass for somsone to build the needed XP?  How much work goes into the first stages of leveling a focus?

 No one should ever call Zenurik something to solve a problem for a starting player.  It isn't, and never was.  As such, I discount it completely for beginners.  They have no access to it, and might not for months of steady play.  Thus I consider Riot Shield to be a total non-entity to people who don't have Volt Prime, the mods they need, AND a lens.

[FitzSimmons]

3 hours ago, Cytobel said:

I've built Volt your way and it doesn't work for me at all.

same as your build doesn't work for me at all, its matter of preferences. 

3 hours ago, Cytobel said:

2.  Without at least this much Strength Speed feels like a dump skill.  It's a terrible waste of energy to run all of 50% faster when you can mod for that much BASELINE.  Moreover Speed lacks the Duration needed, so I keep hammering the fking button every 8 seconds.  Waste of effort for the most part.

ermm not really, especially with new aura, growing power, 30% from intensify + growing power = transient fortitude

it means a lot to me especially with jat kittag on my hand.

3 hours ago, Cytobel said:

1.  Electric damage sucks leperous balls.  It's actively bad against Corpus (those shields) and Grineer (goddamn alloy armor), despite these being the only factions it might be GOOD against as they are the ones with Robotic/Machinery-type foes.  So I can zap Regulators, Rollers, and Latchers.  NOBODY CARES.

ermm does do heat and cold damage deal great damage on sortie level? i guess not. all pure elemental damage power are suck tbh, even for oberon hallowed ground + augment. if i dont play on sortie level, syndicate mission as example....shock can 1 hit kill corpus crewman, 2 hits on grineer iirc, when i need to get overshield on mid level....i couldn't they died easily with discharge except for heavy unit. 

 

1 hour ago, Cytobel said:

Look, it's like this.  You start the game, pick a 'Frame, start playing.  10 days in and you're likely MR4 or -5 tops.  If you keep at it and struggle on you will level enough gear to eventually get to be able to run the Quests that unlock access to your Focus tree.

How many days of play is that?  How manu months can pass for somsone to build the needed XP?  How much work goes into the first stages of leveling a focus?

i've been dealing with math enough for today so i really not in the mood to calculate anything, unless you want to calculate them for me

 

57 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I DO NOT mean this to be an attack against you at all

im too pure to think your words meant to attack me or not, so dont worry.

 

1 hour ago, Cytobel said:

No one should ever call Zenurik something to solve a problem for a starting player.

and i dont think any beginner ever need riot shield in the first place. in their beginning of play warframe. 

[YagoXiten]

3 minutes ago, FitzSimmons said:

same as your build doesn't work for me at all, its matter of preferences. 

ermm not really, especially with new aura, growing power, 30% from intensify + growing power = transient fortitude

it means a lot to me especially with jat kittag on my hand.

ermm does do heat and cold damage deal great damage on sortie level? i guess not. all pure elemental damage power are suck tbh, even for oberon hallowed ground + augment. if i dont play on sortie level, syndicate mission as example....shock can 1 hit kill corpus crewman, 2 hits on grineer iirc, when i need to get overshield on mid level....i couldn't they died easily with discharge except for heavy unit. 

 

i've been dealing with math enough for today so i really not in the mood to calculate anything, unless you want to calculate them for me

 

im too pure to think your words meant to attack me or not, so dont worry.

 

and i dont think any beginner ever need riot shield in the first place. in their beginning of play warframe. 

Heat damage is amazing against the Grineer at Sortie evels when you run 4x CP. Cold Damage can be paired with Corrosive when you do not have CP to help deal with both types of armor. Toxin damage is bonkers with 4x CP and a status weapon. Electric damage you would never run alone.



 

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, YagoXiten said:

Heat damage is amazing against the Grineer at Sortie evels when you run 4x CP. Cold Damage can be paired with Corrosive when you do not have CP to help deal with both types of armor. Toxin damage is bonkers with 4x CP and a status weapon. Electric damage you would never run alone.

Against armor-stripped Grineer an Electric status weapon will shred them with AOEs alongside its stuns.  Gas/Electric status weapons are among my favorites for non-Grineer factions, and actually perform even better against Grineer than they do against the other factions, provided armor has been stripped.  

Edited September 30, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[YagoXiten]

2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Against armor-stripped Grineer an Electric status weapon will shred them with AOEs alongside its stuns.  Gas/Electric status weapons are among my favorites for non-Grineer factions, and actually perform even better against Grineer than they do against the other factions, provided armor has been stripped.  

You're using Gas for the Status damage, which is going to be dealt as a Toxin proc, and Electric for the CC, and because Magnetic is even worse a damage type than Electric, and you don't gain anything from Cold if you're fighting targets with no armor, nor against shields, because of the Gas procs. You'd still probably be better off running more Gas damage than Electric, at least, in terms of DPS. Though the Electric status stun is nice. But that's the only real benefit Electric has.