I dont want another CoD !!!

[Technologic141]

I'm starting to worry now. Players want another CoD and powers will transform in perks because practicaly every ability is OP. Also there is Topic: 

where you can see what powers are "broken" and is judged by players what never play a LoR for example and DE making their wishes like they are veterans.
Pretty sad. I start play this game because it have so much awesome diversion in playstyles in one game.
Now after these changes it more look like perks what boost you in current situation but not true powers what give you critical advance.
Timer before another use (like Mass effect 1) will be better that all this changes what put all frames in their roles like in our Loved CoD/BF.

Maybe you all love FPS and current form is obsolete. Well i dont belive it.

Weird. This trend with major changes start after Digital extremes was sold to new owner.
Coincidence? Barely...

Hope you will read it DE
 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Players like to call it cheese, but this is my favorite example of why bother with powers if players can't even use them...like Loki and Switch Teleport with the Corporus Long Hallway Spy Vault. Even Wu-Kong is prevented from using his Cloudwalker in there and he would be great for spy runs, but he's not.

But this is where those powers should shine. It's a primary selling point to the frames in negating that obstacle and the powers themselves. If you can't use it, why even bother? Trolling other players? That's it's big draw? That's what Switch teleport is all about? Making other players miserable. 

Limbo has a redeeming quality in that he can walk right through laser grids. He's next from what been said on the Devstreams. So I'd imagine that laser grid immunity will be negated as well. 

At this point I guess you could stop putting powers on frames, they get watered down anyways, and just go with syndicate weapons where you kill so many targets and you get a power use depending on the gun...I mean I don't know, it just seems the Nerfers lock onto every aspect of the game and hammer it into uselessness. Why even bother anymore, just make it COD and create a list of your beloved frames and weapons nerfers that we should all be using. 

 

[BlackCoMerc]

First, not all players do Raids. They aren't fun precisely because they DO require locking down enemies to the point if ignoring them. It's that, or die in one hit to everything. 

So please stop insisting everything be balanced around the least fun missions in the game.

Second, some of us want to engage with enemies. To fight. To play the game. Not just press a button and but the map on lockdown. Please try to understand our concerns here.

As for Loki and Willing in Spy vaults, I agree. It's like Rhino and Mag in capture missions. And Loki, too. Here are the very missions where powers should shine, and...nope, sorry. No powers.

It's utterly ridiculous.

[Technologic141]

That is the point. Free of choice. If i like something (hysteria for solo, bless for raids) its my will if i take it or not and if i use it or not. I dont forcing others to do the same thing. If they dont want it, dont use it or dont play it but these changes forcing ME to play it like these players what never or maybe once play with current frame and call it "broken" after that they are satisfied and move on but form me is the wastet formas and time spended on that frame. Personaly i dont like endeless spam of powers but these changes are brutal.

Bless formula - againts LoR players, bless was invented mostly for protection from battery explode and Hek (later golem) one shoot kills. This is only difference after this changes. Raid is 2-3 mins longer, all ppl die on battery explode and everyone spam health gear. That is not healty change but horrible nerf.
Normal changes:
1) max damage reduction is 50%, - you will survive battery explode/hek shoot but you are still hurted
2) add insertable pod where we put the batery with 30 sec countdown (like sabotage insert pod) now we have 30 sec to hack console. injecter is destroyed (battery explode) when last console is hacked , hek hit harm but wont kill and complety remove shield and disable powers on 5 sec, hek should shoot more fruquently. - in this case you dont need bless because you cant be one shooted.

Hysteria - against players what want beat their frustration (Rape E button) or just want play solo and chill. After you reach 5500 points you are dead in closed maps, with very close enemy spawn is useless ability.
anyway they add 360 degre aura dead zone but they never add 360 degre aura for warcry.
Normal changes:
1) make hysteria based on duration but toggable. How long you stay in hysteria that long you will be countdown to reuse it.
example:you use hysteria 20 sec, there will be 20 sec timer until you can use it again. You still have awesome power but you are still vulnerable in waiting part and you must think when to use it. - preventing to endless super efficiency runs
2) remove immortality but add 100% life steal and  300% armor (not basic but modified etc. 1530 steel fiber+armor agility). hysteria with warcry will be hard tank with awesome healing but still vulnerable to die if someone do a mistake or stay afk too long. Also it support idea of arcanes (arcane guardian) - controversial immortality will removed but still will be awesome tank with high dmg reduction

Mag - moved in shooting machine, any of her powers are not deadly without guns. Best anty corpus unit moved to half anty copus/grineer unit. with max strengh 299 you cant remove all shield from corpus 135lvl units. Units affected by shield osprey are not affected by polarize. That mean polarize is useless in long play because almost every groups have shield osprey.
1) Polarize will move like now (buble) but completly destroy flying obejects and their drops (sapping , shield, etc. ospreys.) also remove all shields from enemy. - will become Anti AoE spam mag, it will work like 4x CP on grineer
2) Polarize will be drain abillity what suck 20% of new enemy shields in range and store (like equinox) all shield in yours (so you can have 100k+ shield) in range abillity, releasing ability will work like old polarize but in bubble form when you clean map in abillity range. - mag is still vulnerable to toxic and other effect so if he had a milion shield, gas kill him almost instantly

What about this changes? Its big changes but not that disgust how DE make it.

DE have forums, teams, moderators and tons of other resources. They shoud consider all variants.
Only what they did is completly ability destroing how players remeber it and call it balance?
You real think that changes what they did help players ? I personly think it is a cheap change invented after work.
(sry Scott)
DE must know it how many players will react of this. They add double affinity weekend, reactor, catalyst + another reactor alert in same time like this update. Last time they give us something to forget too (i think it was double resource weekend + exilus + catalyst).
I dont see any positives of these changes (gaming or personal) it only become Perks system where current frame have current buffs but no true powers.

This changes are bad, disgusting and i disagree with them.


 

[Gurpgork]

2 hours ago, Technologic141 said:

That is the point. Free of choice. If i like something (hysteria for solo, bless for raids) its my will if i take it or not and if i use it or not. I dont forcing others to do the same thing. If they dont want it, dont use it or dont play it but these changes forcing ME to play it like these players what never or maybe once play with current frame and call it "broken" after that they are satisfied and move on but form me is the wastet formas and time spended on that frame. Personaly i dont like endeless spam of powers but these changes are brutal.

The problem with this argument is that the game fundemenatally restricts my freedom of choice in its current state. 

LoR is actually a great example of this. You said that Blessing exists because of one-shots in LoR, but it's actually the other way around. The devs knew that Trinity can make an 8 player squad effectively immortal with little to no risk, and so they countered this by adding the ultimate punishment for not bringing Blessing. 

You see, I can't just ignore that an option exists, because even if I've never even seen a Trinity in a mission, or a Mirage, or a Valkyr, or whatever else, I still have to slog through a game full of things built specifically to counter those sorts of playstyles. I don't magically stop seeing Nullifiers, Bursas, Nullifiers, Combas, Energy Leeches, and goddamn Nullifiers when I decide to play Banshee solo. What happens when I play Banshee solo is that I get OMGWTFPWNED by a platoon of Bombards hiding under a Nullifier bubble supported by the absurd damage reduction aura of an Ancient. 

I understand your concern that your playstyle could suffer for the sake of mine, but please also understand that in the current state of the game, my playstyle suffers for the sake of yours. 

[achromos]

2 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

The problem with this argument is that the game fundemenatally restricts my freedom of choice in its current state. 

LoR is actually a great example of this. You said that Blessing exists because of one-shots in LoR, but it's actually the other way around. The devs knew that Trinity can make an 8 player squad effectively immortal with little to no risk, and so they countered this by adding the ultimate punishment for not bringing Blessing. 

You see, I can't just ignore that an option exists, because even if I've never even seen a Trinity in a mission, or a Mirage, or a Valkyr, or whatever else, I still have to slog through a game full of things built specifically to counter those sorts of playstyles. I don't magically stop seeing Nullifiers, Bursas, Nullifiers, Combas, Energy Leeches, and goddamn Nullifiers when I decide to play Banshee solo. What happens when I play Banshee solo is that I get OMGWTFPWNED by a platoon of Bombards hiding under a Nullifier bubble supported by the absurd damage reduction aura of an Ancient. 

I understand your concern that your playstyle could suffer for the sake of mine, but please also understand that in the current state of the game, my playstyle suffers for the sake of yours. 

 

Stuff like this is why we need level caps.  Sure, have a optional endless mission at the side, but establish more supported limits.  Obvious limits.

[blasron]

its been a couple of week i have been out of warframe now that i take a look at what the last nerfdate did i m not sure i want to play again i think i will just wait in the dark for Nerfdate 19 to see if warframe take too much place in my hardrive. Anywait i have beeen back to planetside 2 (New stuff in and its getting better and better)

[RealPandemonium]

Warframe is never gonna be CoD; this is a scaremongering overreaction.  Warframe will be balanced and fun, and mission content will change to accommodate that.  Locking down tiles and killing with impunity is not Warframe; it's an abomination and needs to go.  Let's hope that the latest patch is a sign that DE is finally waking up and tackling this issue.  

[SaucyTuckermax]

4 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Warframe is never gonna be CoD; this is a scaremongering overreaction.  Warframe will be balanced and fun, and mission content will change to accommodate that.  Locking down tiles and killing with impunity is not Warframe; it's an abomination and needs to go.  Let's hope that the latest patch is a sign that DE is finally waking up and tackling this issue.  

"Warframe will be balanced and fun." - Well the thing is, this is a the type of game that will ALWAYS have certain weapons / warframes that are BETTER then others depending on the situation /mission. Even if they do there best with 'balancing' there will always be something that works better for something then almost everything else. Like Draco for example tons of people like to complain about draco, but only the veterans know that before draco there was a place called 'xini' which was basically what draco is now. When draco get's nerfed to the ground or deleted or whatever, players will find a new 'Draco'. Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

And personally, I thought it was fun as **** blinding enemies from miles away with mirage, killing hoards of lvl 100 enemies from miles away with EB, Healing people that are more then ****ing 10 meters from me with trin...Just my opinion though.

[Volinus7]

You can only go either full CoD or full Musou. Make your choice DE.

[Gurpgork]

10 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

You can only go either full CoD or full Musou. Make your choice DE.

That's entirely not true. DE can certainly borrow elements from those games, but they absolutely do not need to go all one or all the other, and they aren't. They're just turning Warframe back into Warframe, instead of Farming Simulator 2016. 

10 hours ago, SaucyTuckermax said:

Even if they do there best with 'balancing' there will always be something that works better for something then almost everything else.

And that's okay. Balancing doesn't have to be perfect. Yes, there will always be best options. The problem starts when the best options are so much better than everything else that there's no reason to even consider using anything but the best options. And this is exactly the problem we have now; the game has literally hundreds of weapons, and yet I can count the common primaries in endgame missions on my fingers. 

People who are asking for balance aren't asking for weapon damage to get completely flattened. I don't expect to be able to bring the Tiberon to a mission and consistently get top damage every single time. But I do expect the game not to beat me over the head with a shovel for trying. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Gurpgork

[SaucyTuckermax]

3 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

 

And that's okay. Balancing doesn't have to be perfect. Yes, there will always be best options. The problem starts when the best options are so much better than everything else that there's no reason to even consider using anything but the best options. And this is exactly the problem we have now; the game has literally hundreds of weapons, and yet I can count the common primaries in endgame missions on my fingers. 

your right, balancing doesn't have to be perfect. I still feel like the changes made to attempt to balance a PVE game were pretty bogus. nerfing 4 of arguably the funnest warframes does not bring the game 1 inch closer to being a 'balanced' game in my opinion. Theres just way to many frames / weapons that need to be reworked in order for some sort of actual balance to feel like it exists, not to mention just removing modding totally from the game since everyone knows that when you drop enough formas and the right mods on anything it's OP as F.

I just feel like warframe never had balance and it's FINE why attempt it now?. I never ONCE had anyone say to me 'OMG why did you bring a blind mirage your a cheeser" or "Plz stop killing everything with EB" or "plz stop healing me with your trin"...maybe it's just me but I never once had a problem with anyone else doing any of those things either. Un-balanced or not, it was fine with me.

[Technologic141]

I agree with game evolving and neccesaary changes like LoS for mirage or hysteria increasing energy drain by spended time. But that is differnce betwen change (for balance) and nerf (extremly strict).

If i take a hysteria for example that major problem (nerf) is dead zone aura, drain is major change but understable and acceptable, dead zone (aura) forcing me to jump in space or hide like a rat and deactivate it, close enemy spawn = dead, if nullifier touch me = dead , etc.. That is the forcing thing what bother me.

Same with trinity, that "formula" is based on average health (major change but understable) but 50m forcing players to stay near trin when activating bless (impossible in LoR/JV) or they die on battery explode/golem one shoot. Another forcing thing what bother me and my playstile.

Gold middle: hysteria have 100% drain cap now, trinity bless is based on average team healt (so you can survive one shot things like: battery bam, hek dance shoots, golem electric farts, manics rape on pod) is healty changes what i belive help to gameplay,

Range limit bless or huge dead zone are unhealty things what deserve all that criticism from players.

There is one thing what almost all forgot, LoR/JV is only Invite mission type where you MUST cooperate like a team and if someone is bad or stupid you are lost (specially in NM), it doesnt matter if some power is brooken or not, that person must use BRAIN in first time and then use timing, special mods and have some skill (bless+glaive, ev+range+shield restore, nova+ portal doors etc.) if you dont have it, trivial raid is moved in horror. If you run daily with your clan its trivial (boring) thing, Play it on public and sometimes you will be happy you will make it.

In def or interception you must cooperate too but its mostly only about abillity spam (blades storm, sonar, javelin, globe)
faster deads = more waves in shortest time.

If you handle something where is chance of failure (NM core part), it give you feel about good job same also if you make it fluently and quick runs without any issues with random peps. 100% sure runs (clan runs mostly) giving you reason think its something broken with game/frames (too easy).

Raid is the only coop here where killing is second thing and CC first. I dont see nothing bad about something where brain (if you cosider "use brain" = step on that damn pod and use your power) and cooperation is more that killing.

Every other mission is about killing: surv, def, exterminate, interception (draco meta) JV too (injector drops) and complaying about LoR and CC breaking game is not true.

Because its invite map not public, anyone can make raid for killing and dont take any of CC frames (you are not forced use any of abillity!) use zephyr, volt, limbo or something else,

Free of choice ppl -  Other players just forcing me to dont use CC because they dont like it and if they dont like = bad for everyone! And they are must protect me before i use them for my own good. Seems legit.
Any others see hypocrisy from theese players ?

I saw soo much hypocrisy in everything, remove Cover lethality ,remove blade storm, nerf ember, remove invisbility, we want to save you from abilliity spam, take your gun and shoot them, wait that gun kill them in one hit? too much OP need dmg reduction best option is put it in vault... Why? reason: we protecting you...

Before them most players want mod what have 100% lethal dmg to stealth attack now same ppl scream oposit. Ember same story, it was useless and weak, then was boosted, later nerfed, over and over

More that play, everyone have ideas how to change game from basics.

Only true endgame in warframe. Forum wars...

Its a shame where we are now.

[Gurpgork]

9 hours ago, SaucyTuckermax said:

I still feel like the changes made to attempt to balance a PVE game were pretty bogus. 

PvE games are not excused from game balance. There must be some level of balance between the player and the engine, just like there needs to be balance between players in PvP. There is a lot of room for interpretation as to whether the game should favor the player or the engine, but that doesn't mean that it's okay for one to be so powerful that the other stands no chance whatsoever, and that's exactly where we were before 18.13, and, to a large extent, where we still are now. 

9 hours ago, SaucyTuckermax said:

Theres just way to many frames / weapons that need to be reworked in order for some sort of actual balance to feel like it exists

Exactly. And there are outliers on both ends. Some are far too strong, while others are far too weak, and they all need to be brought to somewhere in the middle. 

9 hours ago, SaucyTuckermax said:

not to mention just removing modding totally from the game since everyone knows that when you drop enough formas and the right mods on anything it's OP as F.

Customization and configuration are a massively important part of Warframe. Removing modding outright would be like removing powers or parkour; do that, and you simply aren't playing Warframe anymore. 

Also, mods build on a foundation. If a Warframe's abilities and mechanics are fundamentally bad, no amount of modding will make them excel. Do you think Oberon and Hydroid are obscenely overpowered with enough Forma and the right mods? Because I frickin' don't. If a fully modded Warframe is overpowered, it's because something in their base kit is out of whack. 

9 hours ago, SaucyTuckermax said:

I just feel like warframe never had balance and it's FINE why attempt it now?

Warframe has had balance in the past. It used to be at least somewhat strategic, and all of the top tier guns had some kind of nuance or drawback that prevented them from eclipsing everything else. Now we get the Tonkor, which can absolutely destroy everything with its only drawback being a small magazine. 

By the way, I really hate the word fine. Fine implies that there is untapped potential. Maybe Warframe is fine (I don't really agree that it's fine at the moment), but proper balance, both on the player end and on the enemy end, could make the game much better than just fine. With proper game balance, both on the player end and on the enemy end, it would be much more reasonable to pick something because you liked it, rather than just because it was the best option for every situation. Moreover, we would be able to play the game successfully without needing to put every enemy on the map in stasis and make ourselves effectively immortal. There could be meaningful player/enemy relationships for a change. 

Edited May 31, 2016 by Gurpgork

[SaucyTuckermax]

4 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

-snip-

while i do agree with a few things you said, I still feel like this game is never gonna be balanced no matter how many things they nerf into the ground or buff. There's just to much diversity...And the whole modding thing adds to that fact. The difference between the same exact weapon with a few formas and few different mods on it is HUGE most of the time. Bottom line is, I don't really care about 'balance' I've never once got ticked because someone brought an excal and was killing everything anywhere in it;s remote location, or because someone brought a blinding mirage, blessing trin ETC.

And truth be told I've never had anyone complain because I brought any of those things either. So I honestly am just shocked by how many people there are that seem happy about 18.13 because I didn't know any of the things that got nerfed bothered anybody before. And if they actually did, nobody ever said anything to me anyway.

 

 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

*sigh* yeah warframe is losing it's identity again because you can't run around perma invulnerable / stunlock the whole map indefinitely anymore... o, woe is us, everything's falling apart, oh the humanity omfg etc blah blah...

Edited May 31, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[kubbi]

Meh with all the nerfs going on warframe for me keeps losing it charm. By nerfing powers its obviously promoting tough and "challenging" gameplay. But I'm not a tryhard. I'm what people consider a filthy casual. I don't care if people say that I just want "easy" gameplay because I oppose the nerfs but guess what. The "easy" way was more fun. 

Warframe may go in a more "balanced" route but the fun keeps dropping. For me at least and my friends agree as well.

Edited May 31, 2016 by kubbi

[Gurpgork]

10 hours ago, SaucyTuckermax said:

while i do agree with a few things you said, I still feel like this game is never gonna be balanced no matter how many things they nerf into the ground or buff. 

While Warframe may never have true, complete balance no matter how hard they try, that doesn't mean they should just throw up their arms and say "Why bother?". If they can improve something, then by all means they should. And I'm confident that their balance pass will turn out well, as their other major overhauls have. 

10 hours ago, SaucyTuckermax said:

Bottom line is, I don't really care about 'balance' I've never once got ticked because someone brought an excal and was killing everything anywhere in it;s remote location, or because someone brought a blinding mirage, blessing trin ETC.

You personally not caring about balance doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. One-shot deaths, insane Grineer armor scaling, Nullifiers, Bursas, most weapons being mastery fodder, all of those are problems that can be solved by humbling player power. If we can't turn off the game at the push of a button, the Grineer don't need to be several times as hard to kill as the other factions, the Corpus don't need to spam Nullifiers, and the Infested won't need a bunch of different ways to drain our energy. 

[rockscl]

you cant get out of enemy LOS before breaking out of hysteria?

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

12 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

*sigh* yeah warframe is losing it's identity again because you can't run around perma invulnerable / stunlock the whole map indefinitely anymore... o, woe is us, everything's falling apart, oh the humanity omfg etc blah blah...

So this lol, seriously, such topics need to be locked, i don't know  whether to cringe, laugh or pity.

WF will never be cod and using the cool thing of the moment, the 'cod hatred', doesn't change that. (even if cod IS indeed a terrible game IMO and many others').

There was even another thread saying that playing valkyr isn't easy, like, WTF, yeah, for a kindergardener maybe it isn't but as soon as you can match geometrical forms valkyr was a joke.