Nyx's Passive And Psychic Bolts

[Gurpgork]

Nyx's new passive has inspired some controversy. While disarm is a great effect in a vacuum, there are three main reasons to oppose such a passive on Nyx.

1. It's not really a passive. It's just an additional mechanic of all of her abilities that can't be influenced by mods. 
2. It makes Chaos far too similar to augmented Radial Disarm.
3. It greatly harms the killing potential of Chaos, since it dramatically reduces the amount of damage that enemies deal.

These problems are all in varying degrees of severity.

I think there's a good way to solve this problem, as well as another big problem, all in one go. The other problem being Psychic Bolts.

Psychic Bolts, with its chance for a Radiation proc, would actually not be a half bad ability if it were on a different Warframe. However, since Nyx also has Chaos, there's pretty much no reason to even think about pressing 2 on Nyx, since one of her abilities does the same thing, only better and more reliably.

So here's my proposed solution: Give Nyx a different passive that is completely unrelated to her abilties, and then replace the Radiation chance on Psychic Bolts with a disarm chance. That way, Nyx can keep the potential disarm effect, while gaining a lot more control out of which enemies she disarms and finally have a distinct use for all four of her abilities. I think such a change would be an excellent compromise between wanting to give Nyx a disarm and wanting to keep Chaos as a good potential damage dealer. 

Some new passive ideas:

On 5/29/2016 at 0:51 AM, PsiWarp said:

Any enemies targeting Nyx has an 50% chance to be charmed, slowly approach her without attacking for 5 seconds.

On 5/29/2016 at 3:43 AM, ChronoEclipse said:

Psychic Backlash: any enemy that deals damage to or takes damage from Nyx is staggered.

22 hours ago, silkygoodness said:

As far as her passive I always though she would be able to detect enemies psychically, so for a certain number of meters ahead of her she can see enemies through walls.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Gurpgork
Added ideas for a replacement passive.

[ElCorintio]

Killing potential of Chaos? That thing is both ways. so I'm glad that nyx could disarm them

But, I'm with you only in your first point. This should be an inherit skill of all her powers, and not a passive... A real passive would be that Nyx, whatever attack she make, primaries, secondaries or melee, she has the chance to disarm enemies...

 

[shootaman777]

I would propose that her new passive should be: 

"Enemies currently under the influence of Nyx's abilities are unable to use weapons (or attacks) other than their melee weapons within 10 meters of Nyx."  

This range is unaffected by mods.  

Its purpose is to limit 'bullS#&$ deaths', for lack of a better term.  This includes AoE attacks and bullets of targets irradiated by Psychic Bolts, targets affected by Chaos, targets currently being knocked away by Absorb's blast or in Conclave, targets within the range of Absorb's augment, and sadly targets currently being Mind Controlled, for there to exist a drawback making there some sort of drawback (a calculated choice, as they phrase it) to something that would otherwise be perfect, which DE is so fond of.  

Also, I would ask that you rename this thread to something more specific, maybe 'Nyx's new passive, and Psychic Bolts?', or something other than 'adjustments', since that's usually just one step away and occasionally synonymous with 'nerf', which I found to be very misleading.  

[Gurpgork]

16 minutes ago, ElCorintio said:

Killing potential of Chaos? That thing is both ways. so I'm glad that nyx could disarm them

I'm glad that Nyx can disarm them, too, but I'd rather it be reliable, and I'd rather have some control over whether or not I disarm my enemies. 

17 minutes ago, ElCorintio said:

But, I'm with you only in your first point. This should be an inherit skill of all her powers, and not a passive... A real passive would be that Nyx, whatever attack she make, primaries, secondaries or melee, she has the chance to disarm enemies...

I suppose something like that could work. Although then Psychic Bolts is still completely in the shadow of Chaos. 

4 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

I would propose that her new passive should be: 

"Enemies currently under the influence of Nyx's abilities are unable to use weapons (or attacks) other than their melee weapons within 10 meters of Nyx."  

This range is unaffected by mods.  

But that shares the problem that it has with the first ability: it's only active when her abilities are. 

Something I was thinking was reduced threat level. That would have excellent synergy with Chaos, and would just be a big help in general. 

7 minutes ago, shootaman777 said:

 

Also, I would ask that you rename this thread to something more specific, maybe 'Nyx's new passive, and Psychic Bolts?', or something other than 'adjustments', since that's usually just one step away and occasionally synonymous with 'nerf', which I found to be very misleading.  

 

Is that better?

[PsiWarp]

I always thought Nyx could perhaps tap into the enemies' psyche to make her appear friendly. We have such an effect in-game in the form of Djinn's Fatal Attraction.

So a new passive that could work:

Any enemies targeting Nyx has an 50% chance to be charmed, slowly approach her without attacking for 5 seconds.

Edited May 29, 2016 by PsiWarp

[TheMortemShadow]

I think something many people don't realize is how much the passive actually hurts Nyx. It outright hurts her Mind Control, obviously, because after casting Psychic Bolts, Chaos, or Absorb, I might want to MC an enemy, but now that enemy can be disarmed? Plus, it makes her Chaos exactly like Irridiating Disarm sometimes with the passive, which doesn't make sense because there needs to be separation amongst the abilities of different Warframes, even if the differences are only slight like Loki's Invisibility and Ivara's Prowl (both cast Invisibility, but Ivara's slows her and allows her to pickpocket enemies, making it different). Chaos was enjoyable in the sense that it allowed enemies to kill each other more quickly than Irridiating Disarm, now I underlined allowed because yes, enemies won't always kill each other, but it allows for more potential for enemies killing each other than Irridiating Disarm because they still had their weapons. Bombards are able to kill off enemies easily when under the effects of Chaos, but now with the passive there is the chance that won't happen, weakening her in that situation. I don't believe a passive should weaken any abilities, plus a passive should definitely not have to have abilities casted in order to activate. It doesn't become a passive anymore, it becomes a "buff" to all her abilities and I quote buff because this passive isn't even a buff to all her abilities, it helps Absorb and Psychic Bolts, but it hurts Chaos and MC. Plus, again, I will want to MC an enemy that may have just been hit by Psychic Bolts, Chaos, or Absorb, but that enemy could be disarmed now? Plus, I might want to (a lot of players do this, including me) MC an enemy that just got MCed, but now that enemy could be disarmed after the duration of the first MC ends. Although the chance for disarming seems to be 1/6, as in 1 in every 6 enemies, it's still enough chance for it to be noticeable and for Nyx players to have to work around it frequently. Why should a passive hurt her in any situation? Most passives could be useless, but they don't hurt the Warframes in situations, like Oberon's is useless in some tilesets, but does that hurt him? No, but it doesn't help him either. Equinox's helps her and it's useful and it doesn't have a situation where it hurts her. Like, many of you could argue, "Oh, well this passive seems to help her more than hurt her and you just need to change your playstyle" in which case, fine, that's your opinion on you thinking the passive helps her, and in some situations it can like if you were about to die, but a passive shouldn't hurt a Warframe in any situation they are in and it seems this passive hurts Nyx in too many situations. 

[shootaman777]

Thanks, Gurp!  This is much better imo, I don't have to panic after looking at the name of the thread!    ^_^

Btw, I didn't post the whole thing I had written on Nyx's passive here, and here it is:  

"

Nyx's passive.  Instead of making Loki and Nyx blend together by making Irradiating Disarm give Loki the ability to be a Nyx, and using Nyx's passive to only give Nyx a chance to be a Loki on each ability, and possibly only after the ability duration expires so as to prevent disarming the enemy affected by Mind Control (since by virtue of it being a passive it should have a universal effect and not have just an exception for one thing, such as Mind Control), I would propose something different.  I would say that Nyx's passive should be that "Any enemies under the effect of Nyx's abilities would be forced to use melee only within 10 meters of Nyx”.  This would apply to: enemies under the influence of Chaos, enemies hit in the past 10 seconds by psychic bolts (the duration of its augment, Pacifying Bolts), enemies under Mind Control (Mind your Mind Control!!!)

"

After looking at these replies though, it's looking better for a threat level/hate stats reduction of Nyx, or something like that?  

[--Q--uaint]

I like the idea of Psychic Bolts disarming enemies. I think the augment would need some help, since it’s no longer such a large upgrade to the base ability.

I think a good passive for Nyx would be:
Psychic Backlash: any enemy that deals damage to or takes damage from Nyx is staggered.

[Gurpgork]

5 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

I think the augment would need some help, since it’s no longer such a large upgrade to the base ability.

Maybe it could open enemies to finisher attacks for its stun duration?

[SenorClipClop]

10 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Nyx's new passive has inspired some controversy. While disarm is a great effect in a vacuum, there are three main reasons to oppose such a passive on Nyx.

1. It's not really a passive. It's just an additional mechanic of all of her abilities that can't be influenced by mods. 
2. It makes Chaos far too similar to augmented Radial Disarm.
3. It greatly harms the killing potential of Chaos, since it dramatically reduces the amount of damage that enemies deal.

 

1. If it applies to all things she casts and does not separately need activation, it is by definition a passive. It's a conditional, on-hit passive, too.
2. This compares a standard ability to an augmented ability, so really augmented Radial Disarm is more like Chaos, not the other away around. While these abilities have a similar effect, Chaos' disarm chance is not 100% and so it should be used foremost for the proc, while RD should be primarily for disarming. Furthermore, the frames themselves have very different kits and choosing one frame or the other is still meaningful. It's also not uncommon for frames to share similar abilities (Shock/Freeze/Fireball, Hallowed Ground/Ice Wave, etc).
3. While enemy damage output is potentially decreased, this also means they will do less damage to the squad, since irradiated enemies will attack anything. Solution: pay attention to Chaos' effects and act accordingly. To mitigate squad damage, prioritize killing armed enemies; to maximize enemy damage, prioritize disarmed ones. This also has the added benefit of making enemies clump together more to attack each other, amplifying the effectiveness of AoE weapons.

Hope this helps you play the new Nyx more effectively.

[TheMortemShadow]

31 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

1. If it applies to all things she casts and does not separately need activation, it is by definition a passive. It's a conditional, on-hit passive, too.
2. This compares a standard ability to an augmented ability, so really augmented Radial Disarm is more like Chaos, not the other away around. While these abilities have a similar effect, Chaos' disarm chance is not 100% and so it should be used foremost for the proc, while RD should be primarily for disarming. Furthermore, the frames themselves have very different kits and choosing one frame or the other is still meaningful. It's also not uncommon for frames to share similar abilities (Shock/Freeze/Fireball, Hallowed Ground/Ice Wave, etc).
3. While enemy damage output is potentially decreased, this also means they will do less damage to the squad, since irradiated enemies will attack anything. Solution: pay attention to Chaos' effects and act accordingly. To mitigate squad damage, prioritize killing armed enemies; to maximize enemy damage, prioritize disarmed ones. This also has the added benefit of making enemies clump together more to attack each other, amplifying the effectiveness of AoE weapons.

Hope this helps you play the new Nyx more effectively.

I don't think you read my post at all, so I'm going to summarize it. 

1. Where are you finding your definition of a passive? Really, because when I look up passive it comes up with definitions close to submissive or related to grammar use, so if you can send your definition of a passive in the thread, I believe that would help us see your POV. In our eyes, however, a passive is something that can happen at anytime, in any tileset, and happens in different situations, such as Frost's passive or Saryn's passive. Nyx's passive can be considered a passive to her ABILITIES but not the Warframe itself. 

2. I think you fail to realize that almost every Loki now uses that augment, plus you say it's not uncommon for frames to share similar abilities, but please realize that Loki's Augment and now Nyx's Chaos are too similar. I don't think you can compare Shock, Freeze, and Fireball as they all have different damage types, making them really different with different mechanics and procs, so I don't consider those similar besides them being elemental 1st abilities. A better comparison would be Loki's Invisibility and Ivara's Prowl, the two are very similar since you become Invisible, but they Ivara adds more to it and she becomes slowed and is able to pickpocket enemies making the two abilities differ. Loki's Augment and Nyx's Chaos has become almost the same, the only difference being Nyx's is a chance to do it, but that's not a major difference. The chance, I believe, is 1/6, as in 1 in every 6 enemies, and after testing it, it still happens quite enough to where it becomes annoyingly similar to Loki's Augment. A Warframe's abilities shouldn't be so similar to another Warframe's ability or augment that players now don't see the benefits of playing the other Warframe, which is what many people are doing now. Nyx is my favorite Warframe so I'll always stand by her, but you can't fail to recognize how similar the two are now. Plus, we still use Chaos to proc the radiation-like effect, but please realize how much that lowers the synergy between her abilities. Like I said in my previous post, if I were to use Psychic Bolts, Chaos, or Absorb, it can hurt Nyx because I may want to use Mind Control on an enemy that just got hit, which hurts her in any playstyle so please don't say, "Hope this helps you play the new Nyx more effectively." A passive should help in any playstyle, and of course there will be other playstyles that are more effective in using the passive, but it shouldn't hurt the other playstyles. All other passives (I believe) don't hurt the other Warframes, they could be useless, needing more range, etc. but they don't hurt them. Oberon's passive, for example, can be completely useless in several tilesets, but does that hurt him? No, it just doesn't help him either. Nyx's passive hurts her in several situations, like the one I mentioned and the fact that even though the disarm may only happen after MC ends, I still may want to MC that enemy which happens a lot. So don't just say, "Change your playstyle or something according to that." A passive shouldn't do that, like I said. A passive should have the potential to help in every situation, like Frost's where if he get's melee struck it could freeze the enemy? (I can't remember). There will be situations where Frost's passive won't be helpful and it's rare for him to get melee stuck, but it doesn't hurt him or his playstyle. This new passive hurts too many playstyles, it can help a Nyx Absorb playstyle, but that's it and even then almost every Nyx will use MC, which is the ability that seems to have gotten an indirect nerf from this passive along with Chaos a bit. This passive really lowers the synergy between abilities, like Absorb can be used to knock down enemies (even Heavies) which you then can MC them, but now the enemy you just wanted to MC is now disarmed because of your Absorb. Or Psychic Bolts. Or Chaos. So please explain why a passive should do that? Why a passive should hurt Nyx in so many different situations rather than help her? 

3. I feel the need to say this, but if we wanted to disarm enemies, we would play Loki, simple as that. Chaos was great for Nyx players since it allowed the potential for enemies killing each other. Yes, now the squad has the potential to be more safe, but the same would be with Loki. Nyx benefited from that difference from Loki's augment, because the argument was that Nyx allowed for killing while Loki allowed for safety. Loki became similar enough to Nyx when they released the augment, which I was fine with, Chaos was still different enough for it to be fun still, but now situations occur where it's so similar that I'm wondering why I'm playing Nyx. Her MC is so hurt by this passive because my other abilities can now disarm the enemies, and yes I can still MC a disarmed enemy, but that lowers any potential kills and such, especially with the MC augment. Psychic Bolts always hasn't been that good and could use a touch-up, it and Absorb benefits from this passive, but again it then lowers the synergy between the abilities. We shouldn't have to change our playstyle with a Warframe just because of a passive, it makes no sense. A passive SHOULD help, it shouldn't hurt. "A passive should help in any playstyle, and of course there will be other playstyles that are more effective in using the passive, but it shouldn't hurt the other playstyles." But there are too many situations where this passive hurts rather than helps and I think that's something you're failing to realize when you say that we need to play the new Nyx. No, if her abilities got reworked then yes, we would, but this is a passive that has hurt her. It can help her, but there are still situations where it hurts her and that shouldn't happen with a passive. 

If you like disarming enemies so much though, I suggest this Warframe called Loki, you can even get an augment for him to proc radiation on his Disarm ability. Or you can get a Chesa Kubrow too. 

[SenorClipClop]

2 minutes ago, TheMortemShadow said:

Spoiler

 

I don't think you read my post at all, so I'm going to summarize it. 

1. Where are you finding your definition of a passive? Really, because when I look up passive it comes up with definitions close to submissive or related to grammar use, so if you can send your definition of a passive in the thread, I believe that would help us see your POV. In our eyes, however, a passive is something that can happen at anytime, in any tileset, and happens in different situations, such as Frost's passive or Saryn's passive. Nyx's passive can be considered a passive to her ABILITIES but not the Warframe itself. 

2. I think you fail to realize that almost every Loki now uses that augment, plus you say it's not uncommon for frames to share similar abilities, but please realize that Loki's Augment and now Nyx's Chaos are too similar. I don't think you can compare Shock, Freeze, and Fireball as they all have different damage types, making them really different with different mechanics and procs, so I don't consider those similar besides them being elemental 1st abilities. A better comparison would be Loki's Invisibility and Ivara's Prowl, the two are very similar since you become Invisible, but they Ivara adds more to it and she becomes slowed and is able to pickpocket enemies making the two abilities differ. Loki's Augment and Nyx's Chaos has become almost the same, the only difference being Nyx's is a chance to do it, but that's not a major difference. The chance, I believe, is 1/6, as in 1 in every 6 enemies, and after testing it, it still happens quite enough to where it becomes annoyingly similar to Loki's Augment. A Warframe's abilities shouldn't be so similar to another Warframe's ability or augment that players now don't see the benefits of playing the other Warframe, which is what many people are doing now. Nyx is my favorite Warframe so I'll always stand by her, but you can't fail to recognize how similar the two are now. Plus, we still use Chaos to proc the radiation-like effect, but please realize how much that lowers the synergy between her abilities. Like I said in my previous post, if I were to use Psychic Bolts, Chaos, or Absorb, it can hurt Nyx because I may want to use Mind Control on an enemy that just got hit, which hurts her in any playstyle so please don't say, "Hope this helps you play the new Nyx more effectively." A passive should help in any playstyle, and of course there will be other playstyles that are more effective in using the passive, but it shouldn't hurt the other playstyles. All other passives (I believe) don't hurt the other Warframes, they could be useless, needing more range, etc. but they don't hurt them. Oberon's passive, for example, can be completely useless in several tilesets, but does that hurt him? No, it just doesn't help him either. Nyx's passive hurts her in several situations, like the one I mentioned and the fact that even though the disarm may only happen after MC ends, I still may want to MC that enemy which happens a lot. So don't just say, "Change your playstyle or something according to that." A passive shouldn't do that, like I said. A passive should have the potential to help in every situation, like Frost's where if he get's melee struck it could freeze the enemy? (I can't remember). There will be situations where Frost's passive won't be helpful and it's rare for him to get melee stuck, but it doesn't hurt him or his playstyle. This new passive hurts too many playstyles, it can help a Nyx Absorb playstyle, but that's it and even then almost every Nyx will use MC, which is the ability that seems to have gotten an indirect nerf from this passive along with Chaos a bit. This passive really lowers the synergy between abilities, like Absorb can be used to knock down enemies (even Heavies) which you then can MC them, but now the enemy you just wanted to MC is now disarmed because of your Absorb. Or Psychic Bolts. Or Chaos. So please explain why a passive should do that? Why a passive should hurt Nyx in so many different situations rather than help her? 

3. I feel the need to say this, but if we wanted to disarm enemies, we would play Loki, simple as that. Chaos was great for Nyx players since it allowed the potential for enemies killing each other. Yes, now the squad has the potential to be more safe, but the same would be with Loki. Nyx benefited from that difference from Loki's augment, because the argument was that Nyx allowed for killing while Loki allowed for safety. Loki became similar enough to Nyx when they released the augment, which I was fine with, Chaos was still different enough for it to be fun still, but now situations occur where it's so similar that I'm wondering why I'm playing Nyx. Her MC is so hurt by this passive because my other abilities can now disarm the enemies, and yes I can still MC a disarmed enemy, but that lowers any potential kills and such, especially with the MC augment. Psychic Bolts always hasn't been that good and could use a touch-up, it and Absorb benefits from this passive, but again it then lowers the synergy between the abilities. We shouldn't have to change our playstyle with a Warframe just because of a passive, it makes no sense. A passive SHOULD help, it shouldn't hurt. "A passive should help in any playstyle, and of course there will be other playstyles that are more effective in using the passive, but it shouldn't hurt the other playstyles." But there are too many situations where this passive hurts rather than helps and I think that's something you're failing to realize when you say that we need to play the new Nyx. No, if her abilities got reworked then yes, we would, but this is a passive that has hurt her. It can help her, but there are still situations where it hurts her and that shouldn't happen with a passive. 

If you like disarming enemies so much though, I suggest this Warframe called Loki, you can even get an augment for him to proc radiation on his Disarm ability. Or you can get a Chesa Kubrow too. 

 

 

If your dislike of the passive outweighs your love of Nyx, don't play Nyx. If the reverse is true, you'll find a way to use this new feature to your advantage. If enough players find it disruptive, it will be changed.

[SenorClipClop]

Also, here:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Passive_ability

[SenorClipClop]

And here:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Innate_ability

This one's a little more in-depth, actually.

[TheMortemShadow]

8 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

Also, here:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Passive_ability

" A passive ability is an ability that is always active. "

Hmmmmm, what's the problem with our passive and this definition? Oh, wait, yeah, our passive isn't always active. And I feel as though you're one of the few players who doesn't find it disruptive, which is fine, it's your opinion, but you're just telling me to stop playing Nyx or change my playstyle instead of doing a rebuttal to the points I put out there. I'm still playing Nyx, but it is frustrating when an enemy is disarmed that I didn't want disarmed. Plus, since you looked up passives, here you go: 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Passives

First line:  Passives are special traits possessed by Warframes that provide them unique abilities or bonuses without requiringenergy.

So, instead of posting other game's mechanics to their passives, pay attention to ours. Nyx's passive REQUIRES energy in order to be activated, does it not? And also, unique, sorry but you can't deny that's it's not unique, plus it doesn't fully suit her theme as a Psychic Warframe. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by TheMortemShadow

[TheMortemShadow]

23 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

You've got that right, build and play however you want. I was just sharing what I find effective and works for me.

And also, just to quote you on a different thread post you made on Valkyr Feedback (sorry, I gotta make my point), here you go. So instead of telling us Nyx players to change our playstyle/build according to the passive, why don't you follow your own words and let us play how we wish, but the way we wish to play's effectiveness has been lowered by this passive, something that should not happen with a passive! If it happened with DE changing abilities and such, then yes we would need to find a different build to match the new abilities, but this is a passive. And like I said in my other posts, if you will read them, is that a passive should not hurt a Warframe in any situation, that doesn't mean it should help it in every situation, but it doesn't hurt it. So our feedback is trying to change this passive to help any playstyle or build you wish to play, like a passive should instead of hurting so many situations and playstyles with Nyx, so please help us change it instead of refusing to argue against my points and just telling me to stop playing Nyx or to find a way to put this passive to my advantage, which is slim. Like I said in my previous points, this passive hurts her more than it helps her, I shouldn't have to change my whole entire build or playstyle just to match a passive, as again, a passive should help and not hurt, something you don't want to admit. 

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

While these abilities have a similar effect, Chaos' disarm chance is not 100% and so it should be used foremost for the proc, while RD should be primarily for disarming.

I understand that there are important distinctions between these two abilities. What I don't understand is why they were made more similar. The advantage of using Chaos was that it did not disarm enemies, giving them more potential to kill each other, while Irradiating Disarm had the advantage that it neuters enemy damage output and makes your squad safer. This passive directly steps on that distinction between these two Warframes, and there was no reason to blur the line between Nyx and Loki. 

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

Solution: pay attention to Chaos' effects and act accordingly. To mitigate squad damage, prioritize killing armed enemies; to maximize enemy damage, prioritize disarmed ones.

I would much, much rather choose which enemies to disarm in the first place, rather than having to rely on RNG and picking my kills, which is still extremely biased towards picking off the enemies that the ability disarmed by virtue of its very low disarm chance. 

Adding the disarm exclusively to Psychic Bolts would make this solution far more feasible; if I wanted to disarm enemies, I could press 2, and then some enemies would be disarmed, or I could just leave them to tear each other apart. The distinction between Chaos and Irradiating Disarm would remain prominent, and Nyx could keep her disarm, all while giving her a reason to press 2. If you think completely segregating the disarm and the confusion for Nyx in order to give players more control over their own Warframe would be a negative change, please explain to me how. Because I think @TheMortemShadow and I have highlighted pretty well why giving all of her abilities a random chance to disarm was not an entirely positive change. 

[TheMortemShadow]

1 minute ago, Gurpgork said:

Adding the disarm exclusively to Psychic Bolts would make this solution far more feasible; if I wanted to disarm enemies, I could press 2, and then some enemies would be disarmed, or I could just leave them to tear each other apart. The distinction between Chaos and Irradiating Disarm would remain prominent, and Nyx could keep her disarm, all while giving her a reason to press 2. If you think completely segregating the disarm and the confusion for Nyx in order to give players more control over their own Warframe would be a negative change, please explain to me how. Because I think @TheMortemShadow and I have highlighted pretty well why giving all of her abilities a random chance to disarm was not an entirely positive change. 

That would be an amazing augment/add to Psychic Bolts, it would make us not have to rely on RNG and allow us to still disarm enemies if we wish to, great idea. 

[shootaman777]

25 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

If your dislike of the passive outweighs your love of Nyx, don't play Nyx. If the reverse is true, you'll find a way to use this new feature to your advantage. If enough players find it disruptive, it will be changed.

I don't think you understand the other person's point, and the point of this thread.  They are discussing new passive ideas, and you're saying 'if you don't like it, tough S#&$, go use some other Warframe'.  If you're going to say that to someone's new idea even when they're said that they will stick by Nyx regardless as she is their favorite Warframe, a thread discussing new ideas for Nyx is not where your ideas belong, as you probably do not need to voice your opinions, as you are most likely seemingly okay with this passive anyways.  I am not telling you not to voice your opinions, I am just asking you to please say constructive things.

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, TheMortemShadow said:

And also, just to quote you on a different thread post you made on Valkyr Feedback (sorry, I gotta make my point), here you go. So instead of telling us Nyx players to change our playstyle/build according to the passive, why don't you follow your own words and let us play how we wish, but the way we wish to play's effectiveness has been lowered by this passive, something that should not happen with a passive! If it happened with DE changing abilities and such, then yes we would need to find a different build to match the new abilities, but this is a passive. And like I said in my other posts, if you will read them, is that a passive should not hurt a Warframe in any situation, that doesn't mean it should help it in every situation, but it doesn't hurt it. So our feedback is trying to change this passive to help any playstyle or build you wish to play, like a passive should instead of hurting so many situations and playstyles with Nyx, so please help us change it instead of refusing to argue against my points and just telling me to stop playing Nyx or to find a way to put this passive to my advantage, which is slim. Like I said in my previous points, this passive hurts her more than it helps her, I shouldn't have to change my whole entire build or playstyle just to match a passive, as again, a passive should help and not hurt, something you don't want to admit. 

Dude, chill.

Obviously I'm not telling anyone how to play their game. If a part of a game bothers you significantly, not playing with that part will relieve that bother. This is just my suggestion, and you can still totally do whatever you want. Like I said in the passage you quoted, I make suggestions based on personal experience, nothing more. Please don't take it so personally.

Nyx's passive is on all the time, it just doesn't have a 100% probability to take effect (that would be overpowered and really strange). "Enemies affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to become Disarmed." ~from the Warframe wiki.

Nyx's passive does not require energy in and of itself. It tags onto abilities, and those abilities require energy. This is popularly known as an on-hit effect.

Don't get me wrong, I see how this new ability can be frustrating. It does hurt a particular style of play, and making changes to a game that forces players to change how they play can generate a lot of ill will. I get that. I agree that passives should help and not hurt, so please don't put words in my mouth. I too believe that having a random chance for the effect to occur is a frustrating new element to have to plan around, especially on a tactical frame like Nyx. I never said I supported or opposed the new ability. I merely replied to the three points you gave on it and explained the fact that for better or for worse, love it or hate it, Nyx's passive is in fact a passive ability. I went on to provide ideas to cope with the difficulties it may generate. That's it.

[GOLANX]

Honestly ive never felt the need to disarm my enemies as a Nyx, It pales in comparison to "oh look that bombard just rocketed that lancer" pcifying bolts disarming enemies, heck it can disarm enemies and cause a radiation Proc it wouldn't be worth the energy to use over Chaos. maybe if pacifying bolts was like Mind Freak and Increased their damage by 600% it could be useful for a raded group of mini-bombards killing everything. other than that this is a waste of an ability slot and it would be better to see a new ability added to Nyx's Kit.

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

I always wanted to make a thread about the redundancy of Psychic Bolts, being that she has absorb as a damage ability and chaos as a CC ability and that psychic bolts is so bad at both it cannot justify it's own existence.

 

As far as her passive I always though she would be able to detect enemies psychically, so for a certain number of meters ahead of her she can see enemies through walls.

 

As for a replacement ability, I am unsure, but as it stands no her kit has a pet, a cc, and a damage/shielding ability. So what she doesn't have is a buff, debuffing, heal, or utility ability. So something that works as one of those would be pretty great for her.

[TheMortemShadow]

4 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Dude, chill.

Obviously I'm not telling anyone how to play their game. If a part of a game bothers you significantly, not playing with that part will relieve that bother. This is just my suggestion, and you can still totally do whatever you want. Like I said in the passage you quoted, I make suggestions based on personal experience, nothing more. Please don't take it so personally.

Nyx's passive is on all the time, it just doesn't have a 100% probability to take effect (that would be overpowered and really strange). "Enemies affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to become Disarmed." ~from the Warframe wiki.

Nyx's passive does not require energy in and of itself. It tags onto abilities, and those abilities require energy. This is popularly known as an on-hit effect.

Don't get me wrong, I see how this new ability can be frustrating. It does hurt a particular style of play, and making changes to a game that forces players to change how they play can generate a lot of ill will. I get that. I agree that passives should help and not hurt, so please don't put words in my mouth. I too believe that having a random chance for the effect to occur is a frustrating new element to have to plan around, especially on a tactical frame like Nyx. I never said I supported or opposed the new ability. I merely replied to the three points you gave on it and explained the fact that for better or for worse, love it or hate it, Nyx's passive is in fact a passive ability. I went on to provide ideas to cope with the difficulties it may generate. That's it.

I'm sorry if I seemed angry in my passage, but I wasn't, I was peeved that in an earlier thing you said, " f your dislike of the passive outweighs your love of Nyx, don't play Nyx. If the reverse is true, you'll find a way to use this new feature to your advantage. If enough players find it disruptive, it will be changed" The way you said, don't play Nyx infers that just because I don't like the passive, I shouldn't play her, but I now know that's not what you meant fully.

Nyx's passive is not on all the time, it requires an ability to be activated, which requires energy. I understand what you're saying on how, oh the passive itself doesn't require energy, but the abilities in order to activate that passive still do, therefore still not making it a passive according to the Wiki. I don't think any other passive requires ability casting, I might be wrong and I might need to recheck that, but other passives shouldn't require something like ability casting, specific tilesets (like Oberon's or Ember's), or co-op mode, it makes it too specific. 

And I'm sorry if it seems like I was putting words in your mouth; however, you didn't explain yourself well enough, so I had to infer a couple of things. And this thread is how we wish to change this new "passive" so that it may help any playstyle a Nyx player may want to play. You couldn't even deny the fact that it did hurt a playstyle, although I believe it hurts multiple, in which a passive shouldn't do that. So I understand now you're simply just putting your opinion on how it's a passive, but you must understand we wish to change the passive so everyone can consider it a passive and so it hurts no playstyle and every Nyx can continue to play their playstyle. I don't believe we should have to change a playstyle or find ways to cope with the new difficulties just because a bad passive came into play, I believe we should try to change it so everyone can continue playing the way they played and if people wish to change their playstyle to get more effectiveness out of the passive, that's their choice; however, the passive shouldn't hurt those who wish to continue to play the way they've played, it just won't be as effective. I just hope DE listens to player feedback as it seems many Nyx players and others see the difficulties with this new "passive" and how it can hurt her, yes you can still reap benefits from it, but again there are still too many situations where it hurts her.  

 

[Gurpgork]

22 hours ago, silkygoodness said:

As for a replacement ability, I am unsure, but as it stands no her kit has a pet, a cc, and a damage/shielding ability. So what she doesn't have is a buff, debuffing, heal, or utility ability. So something that works as one of those would be pretty great for her.

Actually, I don't think Psychic Bolts is entirely unsalvageable. It has some really nice mechanics; one handed cast, seeking projectiles, damage and debuff on hit. I think that all that needs to happen is that the Radiation proc just needs to get replaced with some other kind of debuff that actually supplements her kit in some way. This is where I proposed putting the disarm, since it's a powerful CC effect, but not something that every Nyx player wants to have. Alternatively, it could have a different debuff, such as making enemies take damage whenever they attack. 

Whatever Psychic Bolts becomes, though, I think it should directly affect enemies, since all of her abilities only affect enemies. So I don't think buffing and healing would really fit in Nyx's kit. 

I'll add your passive idea to the OP, though. That could be interesting. 

[EvilChaosKnight]

Gotta love how everyone keeps mentioning "Killing potential" of Chaos. Like seriously. What planets are you playing? Mercury? Saturn?

What I NEED to die on anything around mid-lvls and beyond will NOT die to Chaos. Or even be scratched by their allies (hi heavies). What already dies like flies is of no concern to me anyway because my guns are normally faster regardless. So what exactly is harmed by the disarm passive again?