Poll: Do you agree with the nerfs? 1000 votes in

[shut]

25 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

It's overpowered- definitely getting nerfed- and is the most annoying thing I've ever seen in the game when you're not the mag. Teammates need to be able to shoot through it. The damage per second inside of it either needs a heavy nerf or removal completely... but ofc that's all just my opinion.

It's definitely overpowered (damage-wise, at least), but I don't see it as annoying at all.

When you're using guns, it's basically a gigantic target that you can shoot at to instagib anything inside. And when nothing's inside, well, it's basically a Snowglobe that'll eventually expire on its own (in terms of players shooting through it). It's nothing that we don't already know how to work our way around.

Edited May 30, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Tricky5hift]

I am a little concerned with the scaling for Volt and Mag.

Other than that, I feel these nerfs were needed.

If only they were like this to begin with.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

Some of them.

Or, more accurately, all but one. Specifically, part of one. The range limit on Trinity's Blessing bugs me. The DR sharing via affinity range makes sense. But the range limit on the heal makes her job harder in situations where you are required to be far apart. Her passive should help with that, but still.

Can't say that I've ever had energy problems on Excal. In fact, I have a hard time spending it (mainly because I only turn on EB when I need it). New players might find it cost-prohibitive, but highly min/maxed builds will be unaffected.

I see no problems with the Prism nerf.

Same goes for Valkyr. Though, if I had my way, Hysteria would be totally reworked. I saw this awesome suggestion yesterday buried under pages of raging... I twitch a little whenever someone suggests removing invuln on Hysteria, but this idea really worked for me. Basically, Valkyr loses her invuln, and damage incurred is queued similarly to how it is now. But that queue is applied during Hysteria as a DoT with a per-second cap. Lifesteal and healing removes from the damage stack, in addition to restoring health lost from the DoT. It would turn her into a true berserker, and encourage use of the rest of her kit even while in Hysteria. She'd have to constantly be healing to remove the stack, and Paralysis would give her a tool to do that very effectively. (Wish I could remember the guy who posted this.)

Edited May 30, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Monsterwithin]

No.

[jfhsanseiIII]

I need to play around with mag a bit more to get a feel for her, but the other changes get a thumbs up.  Builds that let you ignore parts of the game need to go the way of the Dodo. That said I hope that they follow up this tend with making enemy units more challenging in fights as opposed to the endless power creep.  

[(PSN)youngweezy345]

The nerfs to excal, valkyr, trinity, and mirage aren't justifiable there is no justification to what they have gotten 

reason 1. Warframe is endless meaning there is no scaling cap and you can go until the game breaks and enemies scales up to lvl 9999

reason 2. Majority of community has not did 3+ hours of survival or went against 1000+ enemies

reason 3. Nerfing something because its too power isn't justifiable since there's no scaling cap on enemies it just means the community hasn't fought tougher enemies (hencefore my first and second reasons)

reason 4. Trinity Bless a nerf because if you were to go against lvl 1000+ enemies not having infinite range means not all your squad-mates will get blessed, Valkyr hysteria a nerf same thing your're doing a 3+ hour t4 survival surrounded by enemies with current hysteria the energy drain will force you to end hysteria which will kill you due to the fact you have be away from enemies to not receive the damage you absorbed while in hysteria, Excal exalted blade a nerf same thing as valkyr doing a 3+ hour survival you will get one-shotted all over the place due to exalted blade being close range effective, Mirage prism a nerf same rule as excal and valkyr doing a 3+ hour survival you can get easily one-shotted out of nowhere not being able to lock down the map will increase the chance of getting one-shotted out of nowhere, the strongest powers in warframe are powers that makes you go invisible why because when the enemy armor and gun damage is way way higher than yours the only thing that will keep you alive is not being seen.

reason 5. When de nerf something they kill it off (gammacors) when de buff something they barely make it better than what it used to be (rhino before and after rework)

reason 6. Why should we accept a nerf that forces us to chose different weapons, frames and etc. in a mmorpg where the player should be able to play as and use whatever they want and not being forced to try something else we dont want to use.

[-Kryptyk-]

oh my god ever since the update, it's just been crying after crying.  @(*()$ grow up - DE is balancing the game and adding synergy.  Ok, mag was changed - cool.  You know what?  It's a tiered enemy system, so anything that does any sort of dps is going to have damage dropoff - you all are complaining about something that is working as intended.  Either that or saying something is OP, and those comments are typically coming from the veterans who actually know how to mod to be OP (which, may I remind you all that, since this is PvE-based, that would be the point of the game, right?).   As if that's the biggest issue with warframe, right? 

How about "Thanks DE for working so hard to improve balance and teamplay", since not only is there so much more synergy now, but the way they reworked the frames means more encouragement for teamplay (but then again, I've rarely ever come across a squad that actually uses teamplay... I digress).   OMG there's a bit more strategy and tact involved than just running and gunning oh my, what has this game BECOME!!!

Oh, not to mention the update literally just came out - crying "nerf" or "op" at the moment when changes are this drastic is kind of a #$&(% move.  It needs some time to sit - figure out some new ways to mod the frames and learn how to utilize the abilities.  Don't just sit there and crunch numbers like mad scientists (it's 1am, bad analogies are bad) - actually spend time with the frames.  I've been trying to break this update and reworks, and so far all the reworks are stupidly solid and balanced for a game like this.  That leads me to believe that either this community is complaining due to 1) not being given more handouts and getting spoiled, 2) entitlement is apparently a thing, 3) oh my god change what is change why is change happening, or 4) "I'm a veteran and am at the point where everything needs to be nerfed to the ground because OP even MK1 Braton MLG weapon".  Seriously guys,

Stop calling nerfs on balances.  This entire thread, based on the context of the title and OP, is a passive aggressive "F*** you" to DE.  OP knows that the entitled guys are going to come in and bash the update, and the rest of us are going to sit here wondering "wtf" and give our best responses, which will then fuel the fire.  It's endless.  And I bet the response to that is going to be "but these are the forums, we can talk about it", which, btw, is a bad copout.  

Anyway, that's my rant.  I'm gonna go crawl back into my corner :)

Edited May 30, 2016 by Firefly0037

[UltimateGrr]

Only thing I disagree with is the power cost on EB's spin attack blind, but then again I'm against EB's spin attack actually having a blind, so it sort of balances out.

[Stratego89]

38 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

It's definitely overpowered (damage-wise, at least), but I don't see it as annoying at all.

When you're using guns, it's basically a gigantic target that you can shoot at to instagib anything inside. And when nothing's inside, well, it's basically a Snowglobe that'll eventually expire on its own (in terms of players shooting through it). It's nothing that we don't already know how to work our way around.

My issue with it is that when a mag decides to use her bubble somewhere enemies are approaching in say a defense- and you can't shoot through it...

Then that nullifier/ancient/entourage combo kinda comes walking over without you being able to do ANYTHING to them the whole way over. Even if the bubble lost it's damage per second to everyone in the bubble, there would be no imaginable circumstance under which mag would benefit from it attracting her allies' bullets. There's literally just no reason whatsoever for allies to not be able to shoot through it. It has too many negatives and not enough positives. It hurts her team play.

EDIT: and it's not a snowglobe. Snowglobe you can go inside and shoot OUT of in ANY direction. This thing- you can't shoot through it from outside and if you shoot inside not only can you not shoot out but place your bullets wrong and you can kill YOURSELF.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Stratego89

[(PSN)youngweezy345]

13 minutes ago, Firefly0037 said:

oh my god ever since the update, it's just been crying after crying.  @(*()$ grow up - DE is balancing the game and adding synergy.  Ok, mag was changed - cool.  You know what?  It's a tiered enemy system, so anything that does any sort of dps is going to have damage dropoff - you all are complaining about something that is working as intended.  Either that or saying something is OP, and those comments are typically coming from the veterans who actually know how to mod to be OP (which, may I remind you all that, since this is PvE-based, that would be the point of the game, right?).   As if that's the biggest issue with warframe, right? 

How about "Thanks DE for working so hard to improve balance and teamplay", since not only is there so much more synergy now, but the way they reworked the frames means more encouragement for teamplay (but then again, I've rarely ever come across a squad that actually uses teamplay... I digress).   OMG there's a bit more strategy and tact involved than just running and gunning oh my, what has this game BECOME!!!

Oh, not to mention the update literally just came out - crying "nerf" or "op" at the moment when changes are this drastic is kind of a #$&(% move.  It needs some time to sit - figure out some new ways to mod the frames and learn how to utilize the abilities.  Don't just sit there and crunch numbers like mad scientists (it's 1am, bad analogies are bad) - actually spend time with the frames.  I've been trying to break this update and reworks, and so far all the reworks are stupidly solid and balanced for a game like this.  That leads me to believe that either this community is complaining due to 1) not being given more handouts and getting spoiled, 2) entitlement is apparently a thing, 3) oh my god change what is change why is change happening, or 4) "I'm a veteran and am at the point where everything needs to be nerfed to the ground because OP even MK1 Braton MLG weapon".  Seriously guys,

Stop calling nerfs on balances.  This entire thread, based on the context of the title and OP, is a passive aggressive "F*** you" to DE.  OP knows that the entitled guys are going to come in and bash the update, and the rest of us are going to sit here wondering "wtf" and give our best responses, which will then fuel the fire.  It's endless.  And I bet the response to that is going to be "but these are the forums, we can talk about it", which, btw, is a bad copout.  

Anyway, that's my rant.  I'm gonna go crawl back into my corner :)

@Stratego89 try going against lvl 1000+ enemies something the community clearly don't realize is that warframe has no scaling cap there enemies scale up to lvl 9999 or until the game breaks 

[-Kryptyk-]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)youngweezy345 said:

@Stratego89 try going against lvl 1000+ enemies something the community clearly don't realize is that warframe has no scaling cap there enemies scale up to lvl 9999 or until the game breaks 

yup.  a tiered system it may be, but a broken one at that.  I think I had made a video on just that and why it's so broken at one point recently...  there's meta and exploits for everything.  Outside of meta - for those of us who actually play the game the way it was meant to be played (oh fack starting a fire with that statement.... don't take the bait), dps dropoff is a thing.  We're trying... we really are.  but we'll never be as good as those MLG godmode exploiters.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Firefly0037

[(PSN)youngweezy345]

whats the video called  @Firefly0037

[Stratego89]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)youngweezy345 said:

@Stratego89 try going against lvl 1000+ enemies something the community clearly don't realize is that warframe has no scaling cap there enemies scale up to lvl 9999 or until the game breaks 

M8. DE says sorties and raids are what they balance for. Sorties and raids go up to 150 tops. That means we're supposed to start dying easily after level 150 enemies.

Using the fact that the game CAN go up to 9999 enemies does not mean we SHOULD BE ****ING ABLE TO. DE does not WANT us to. ACCEPT THAT. The point of infinite scaling was to offer us a CHALLENGE while also STILL BEING ABLE TO MURDER US. And you know what? People took the the wrong **** way and decided they were SUPPOSED to go all the way up until the game breaks. Because THAT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE TO YOU PEOPLE APPARENTLY. 

[SaucyTuckermax]

I am angered by every single one of the nerfs, Especially mag though. Anyone that's loving the nerfs hope your high level content is a whole lot more stressful and engaging without blessing trin, blind mirage, valkyr that doesn't have to go hide in a corner after using hysteria.

[shyguyk]

Excal nerf: the range thing good. the slide energy, not at all.

Mirage: Entirely.

Mag: I'd like to see some percentage on polarize, maybe like the rathuum mods.

Valkyr: Hell no because of the suicide bubble's range + energy leeches

Trinity: Yes, but they should focus on EV more than blessing

Edited May 30, 2016 by shyguyk
Forgot trinity

[(PSN)youngweezy345]

3 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

M8. DE says sorties and raids are what they balance for. Sorties and raids go up to 150 tops. That means we're supposed to start dying easily after level 150 enemies.

Using the fact that the game CAN go up to 9999 enemies does not mean we SHOULD BE ****ING ABLE TO. DE does not WANT us to. ACCEPT THAT. The point of infinite scaling was to offer us a CHALLENGE while also STILL BEING ABLE TO MURDER US. And you know what? People took the the wrong **** way and decided they were SUPPOSED to go all the way up until the game breaks. Because THAT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE TO YOU PEOPLE APPARENTLY. 

if de balanced around sorties then they need to buff the enemy lvl to 1000+ or put a scaling cap on enemies and also why nerf something strong that helps against high level enemies.

[-Kryptyk-]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)youngweezy345 said:

whats the video called  @Firefly0037

Spoiler

 

It's within the context of survivals.... I think I start talking about it around 4:35?  ish?  The video is basically various issues with survivals, and some ways to fix it all.  I love going into how various aspects of things work, finding problems, and fixing the underlying layers of problems that may not manifest themselves immediately but have a toll on players long term.  Slightly off topic from OP though .-.

[Sennera]

I think DE's trying to replicate the Monster Hunter experience somewhat.

In Monster Hunter up to 4 players take on one (or sometimes more) giant monsters using relatively weak weapons. Over a span of usually 10-30 minutes but up to 50 minutes for some monsters, the players fight non-stop against an enemy with overwhelmingly powerful attacks. Endgame, a large majority of those attacks can 1-hit a fully equipped player!

The 'MH experience' I mention is that after you've fought such a tough battle, there's a strong feeling of achievement. You can feel that sometimes in this game, and before the meta strats were discovered for Kela's new arena I definitely felt it somewhat, but Synoid Simulors and Tonkors take that feeling away from the game.

 

That's not to say infinite scaling isn't a problem in this game; rather I agree it's a huge problem in this game. Monster Hunter doesn't bother with scaling, they just roughly follow a tiered system for gear and enemies and after about a thousand hours of gameplay you reach the top of the tier for both.

[-Kryptyk-]

6 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

M8. DE says sorties and raids are what they balance for. Sorties and raids go up to 150 tops. That means we're supposed to start dying easily after level 150 enemies.

Using the fact that the game CAN go up to 9999 enemies does not mean we SHOULD BE ****ING ABLE TO. DE does not WANT us to. ACCEPT THAT. The point of infinite scaling was to offer us a CHALLENGE while also STILL BEING ABLE TO MURDER US. And you know what? People took the the wrong **** way and decided they were SUPPOSED to go all the way up until the game breaks. Because THAT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE TO YOU PEOPLE APPARENTLY. 

this ^

[Sennera]

8 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

M8. DE says sorties and raids are what they balance for. Sorties and raids go up to 150 tops. That means we're supposed to start dying easily after level 150 enemies.

Using the fact that the game CAN go up to 9999 enemies does not mean we SHOULD BE ****ING ABLE TO. DE does not WANT us to. ACCEPT THAT. The point of infinite scaling was to offer us a CHALLENGE while also STILL BEING ABLE TO MURDER US. And you know what? People took the the wrong **** way and decided they were SUPPOSED to go all the way up until the game breaks. Because THAT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE TO YOU PEOPLE APPARENTLY. 

^ that

[(PSN)youngweezy345]

10 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

M8. DE says sorties and raids are what they balance for. Sorties and raids go up to 150 tops. That means we're supposed to start dying easily after level 150 enemies.

Using the fact that the game CAN go up to 9999 enemies does not mean we SHOULD BE ****ING ABLE TO. DE does not WANT us to. ACCEPT THAT. The point of infinite scaling was to offer us a CHALLENGE while also STILL BEING ABLE TO MURDER US. And you know what? People took the the wrong **** way and decided they were SUPPOSED to go all the way up until the game breaks. Because THAT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE TO YOU PEOPLE APPARENTLY. 

also if de didnt want us to go against lvl 1000+ enemies why they didnt @(*()$ add a scaling cap on enemies why do the people who go that far gets punished for going that far explain that

[Sennera]

1 minute ago, (PS4)youngweezy345 said:

also if de didnt want us to go against lvl 1000+ enemies why they didnt @(*()$ add a scaling cap on enemies why do the people who go that far gets punished for going that far explain that

If they added a cap then you'd have (relatively) easy enemies for the next hour+ of gameplay.

Going 3+ hours in a survival and getting killed by scaling enemies isn't punishment, it's just the game.

 

If anything they should put a max limit on how far you can go in endless missions, but they haven't done that because people would complain AND as it is it helps them figure out what's not working right. Good example is the infinite invisibility Ivara exploit they fixed during Rathuum because the top clans were using it to cheese the scaling enemies there.

[(PSN)youngweezy345]

6 minutes ago, Sennera said:

If they added a cap then you'd have (relatively) easy enemies for the next hour+ of gameplay.

Going 3+ hours in a survival and getting killed by scaling enemies isn't punishment, it's just the game.

 

If anything they should put a max limit on how far you can go in endless missions, but they haven't done that because people would complain AND as it is it helps them figure out what's not working right. Good example is the infinite invisibility Ivara exploit they fixed during Rathuum because the top clans were using it to cheese the scaling enemies there.

im just pointing out that guy statement stating de doesn't want us to go that far so basically de allowed infinite scaling as a challenge so therefore a small handful of the community takes the challenge and guess what does great in the challenge but when de nerfs something it makes it harder for them to go that far just because the rest of the community is nowhere near the level they are nuh uh not justifiable its called practice, experiment, test, study, and examine otherwise known as get good @Stratego89

Edited May 30, 2016 by (PS4)youngweezy345

[Sennera]

1 minute ago, (PS4)youngweezy345 said:

im just pointing out that guy statement stating de doesn't want us to go that far so basically de allowed infinite scaling as a challenge so therefore a small handful of the community takes the challenge and guess what does great in the challenge but when de nerfs something it makes it harder for them to go that far just because the rest of the community is nowhere near the level they are nuh uh not justifiable @Stratego89

What I'm trying to point out is that DE didn't intend for people to get that far. The nerfs aren't to make it harder to go that far, the nerfs are to make the lower levels you're supposed to stay in more challenging and only have the side effect of making the stupidly high level enemies harder to reach.

[(PSN)youngweezy345]

Just now, Sennera said:

What I'm trying to point out is that DE didn't intend for people to get that far. The nerfs aren't to make it harder to go that far, the nerfs are to make the lower levels you're supposed to stay in more challenging and only have the side effect of making the stupidly high level enemies harder to reach.

just like i said the community just have to learn to get good its really not that hard in warframe