Lets discuss the nullifiers

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

27 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I loathe Nullifiers, but...maybe they are interrupting the Nueral Link between Tenno and Frame just enough that channeling powers is out. We can maintain control but not cast...

Cause...screw you, Lore, that's why.

Yeah I don't like it either but it's a possible "justification " for a terrible game mechanic.

Yeah I guess but before powers wouldn't work I'd think it when you would attempt to use a power like exalted blade the warframe may explode with Void energy, or you'd get a weaker/imperfect exalted blade.

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

27 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I loathe Nullifiers, but...maybe they are interrupting the Nueral Link between Tenno and Frame just enough that channeling powers is out. We can maintain control but not cast...

Cause...screw you, Lore, that's why.

Yeah I don't like it either but it's a possible "justification " for a terrible game mechanic.

Yeah I guess but before powers wouldn't work I'd think it when you would attempt to use a power like exalted blade the warframe may explode with Void energy, or you'd get a weaker/imperfect exalted blade.

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

58 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I loathe Nullifiers, but...maybe they are interrupting the Nueral Link between Tenno and Frame just enough that channeling powers is out. We can maintain control but not cast...

Cause...screw you, Lore, that's why.

Yeah I don't like it either but it's a possible "justification " for a terrible game mechanic.

I don't think so, if messing with void energy was the case i think the warframe would explode or you'd end up with a weaker or less effective/efficienct ability.

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

On 6/12/2016 at 0:21 PM, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

I don't think so, the Orokin were smarter than the corpus in every way and have had their top scientists studying the Tenno for a long time before they decided they couldn't control them and just locked them up.(basically if the corpus pressed for this tech the Orokin pushed the button so hard it broke the machine.) Also the corpus don't know much about Orokin tech, in fact Orokin tech is so much beyond the corpus that they worship it. Also I'd like to mention that Alad V(not a common corpus and considered smart, he was on the corpus board he was like a corpus noble/King) did not know how the Orokin portals worked. That's why without a key they simply cannot open them. It's like saying a child knows how a keyhole(mechanisms and such)works if he stuck a key in it and opened it. Basically as I was saying before the corpus just couldn't make nullifier tech to cancel out zariman children abilities it makes no sense lore wise. As someone else stated earlier it's "laughably sad". If you don't believe me look up the lore entries yourself, I guarantee after you do you'll agree with me.

I'm aware of the lore, having been a scholar of every new tidbit that comes out, but i was merely suggesting a probable conclusion, rather than screaming lore-breaking at a unit the Devs added. 

[Paradoxbomb]

I have to vote for removing them. As others have already mentioned, Combas, Scrambuses, and Isolators already fill their role and do it in a much less irritating and restrictive manner; to put it bluntly they're obsolete.

If they really must stay though, at least make them super rare. Dealing with one is annoying enough, but on any mid-level, non-endless Corpus mission you essentially have a massive wall of two to three Nullifier bubbles approaching you from every direction, and this only when you're a few minutes/waves in.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Nullifiers is the reason why people dont bring non-automatic weapons in endless void missions.

Why they even exist? dont makes sense.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

I can say, as inaros, nullifers are a piece of cake. 

 

At the same time, as mesa, nullifers are A PAIN IN THE &#!

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

9 hours ago, Xen_Ashwood said:

I'm aware of the lore, having been a scholar of every new tidbit that comes out, but i was merely suggesting a probable conclusion, rather than screaming lore-breaking at a unit the Devs added. 

Screaming...not exactly. I'm myself am a "lore scholar" as well and that's why I despise nullifiers. They see the lore and destroy it completely. I just put forth evidence and what turns out to be the truth about nullifiers is so horribly outrageous and ridiculous that it's easier to believe the provider of the information(me) is the taking things out of proportion but in reality it's really that bad just we haven't real noticed until now. 

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

11 hours ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

Screaming...not exactly. I'm myself am a "lore scholar" as well and that's why I despise nullifiers. They see the lore and destroy it completely. I just put forth evidence and what turns out to be the truth about nullifiers is so horribly outrageous and ridiculous that it's easier to believe the provider of the information(me) is the taking things out of proportion but in reality it's really that bad just we haven't real noticed until now. 

I still hate nullifiers, but if the developers add a unit, it's their game, their lore. we have to work around that.

[VoidNomade]

23 minutes ago, Xen_Ashwood said:

I still hate nullifiers, but if the developers add a unit, it's their game, their lore. we have to work around that.

Yes, and some people, as their customers, provide them with suggestions and feedback about their product to enhance and develop it for a greater enjoyment and quality.

Lore realism and consistency is one of those things. 

We don´t need to bite the bullet every time. We are able to communicate with DE and let them hear our thoughts and hope they either see it as we do or they think that it´s a good idea to follow the demand.

[Inarticulate]

12 hours ago, (XB1)MK Ultra K11 said:

Screaming...not exactly. I'm myself am a "lore scholar" as well and that's why I despise nullifiers. They see the lore and destroy it completely. I just put forth evidence and what turns out to be the truth about nullifiers is so horribly outrageous and ridiculous that it's easier to believe the provider of the information(me) is the taking things out of proportion but in reality it's really that bad just we haven't real noticed until now. 

We already know that the Grineer are capable of the detection of Void energies; transmissions intercepted on the scanner in your Liset indicate that the Grineer can detect the presence of Tenno "Void masks", which one can presume is the means that the Liset uses for its stealth ability.

It's not too much of a stretch to assume that the Corpus, who are known to be researching Warframes and Orokin technology, have developed a means to prevent Warframes from being able to tap into the Void energies used to cast their abilities in a limited range. The technology to do such a thing has been deployed on Nullifiers, Combas, and Scrambuses with slight variations between units.

I see absolutely nothing lore-breaking about the existence of Nullifiers. If anything, I'm more surprised the Grineer haven't been deploying magnetic field generators on a massive scale considering the huge advantage it would give them in confrontations against both the Tenno and Corpus. You'd think with the immediate and very real threat the Tenno pose to the other factions, they'd put more effort into developing more effective countermeasures. It can't be cheap to repopulate the sheer number of Grineer galleons that are gutted by the Tenno every day.

[VoidNomade]

1 hour ago, Inarticulate said:

It's not too much of a stretch

That is a stretch by million light years

And

1 hour ago, Inarticulate said:

We already know that the Grineer are capable of the detection of Void energies

C.Vor MAYBE, not the Grineer..... other than that - source? Even when, detecting a energy doesn´t mean you can manipulate it, not a energy that even the Orokin NOT fully understood and controlled and that was used against the biggest threat known to the Orokin as weapon

1 hour ago, Inarticulate said:

I see absolutely nothing lore-breaking about the existence of Nullifiers

Logic and the fact that there´s no! lore about this tech.

I feel this is more a basic attitude than anything else.

Edited June 14, 2016 by VoidNomade
removed "profanity"

[DatDarkOne]

48 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

That is a stretch by million light years

And

C.Vor MAYBE, not the Grineer..... other than that - source? Even when, detecting a energy doesn´t mean you can manipulate it, not a energy that even the Orokin NOT fully understood and controlled and that was used against the biggest threat known to the Orokin as weapon

Logic and the fact that there´s no! lore about this tech.

I feel this is more a basic attitude than anything else.

You gave that as a counter argument to Inarticulate's post.  That sounds more closed minded than willing to discuss possibilities other than what you believe.  I'm going to simplify this for you.  Whatever DE puts in the game is Lore since they are the creators.  Anything you say about lore-breaking is counter to that one simple FACT.  It's insulting to the creators of the content. 

Spoiler

Up until the Second Dream, everyone thought the Frames had the Tenno inside them. 

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added content

[Inarticulate]

34 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

C.Vor MAYBE, not the Grineer..... other than that - source? Even when, detecting a energy doesn´t mean you can manipulate it, not a energy that even the Orokin NOT fully understood and controlled and that was used against the biggest threat known to the Orokin as weapon

Do you not listen to the intercepted radio transmissions over the scanner in your Orbiter?

Quotes from the Wiki because I cannot be bothered to transcribe them myself:

• "Attention all ships, uhh, detecting echoes. Stay alert, could be caused by Tenno void masks."

• "All units alert, Status Yellow. All scanners full power, now. Tenno unmasking, ready flak. Wait, cease fire, CEASE FIRE! Fe-be-tok is already close to the rail. Hold fire! RAMN! Gone."

• "Hmm... manifest, check. Passage visa, check. Hull integrity, heh, check. Tenno energy residue, hmm... negligible. Yeah, you're authorized for punch captain."

• "Uk-forr-uk (141), please advise, detecting void mask echoes. Tenno ships converging on your signal. Uk-forr-uk, we are still seeing void echoes, announce Tenno contact immediately. Uk-forr-uk, come in. ...Uk-forr-uk, respond."

• "Galleon-mark-fhuve, prepare for jump. Galleon-mark-fhuve, hold position. Detecting anomalies. N-Fhuve-Fhuve (N55), do you detect similar? Galleon-mark-fhuve... Ramn. Tenno ship detected, attack. They're gone. Argh, Bek."

• "Uhh, captain, do you know if any Tenno have been on this ship? There's, uhh, energy residue everywhere. Yeah, yeah, scan your system; look for signs of intrusion." "Yeah, you understand, uhh, this is gonna need to be reported to, uhh, High Command. Uh-huh. Yeah, well, this is, uhh, very serious. Vor will want to know."

It's deathly obvious that the Grineer have the technology to at least detect the presence of Void energies, either directly or indirectly. The Corpus, who possess significantly more advanced technology compared to the Grineer and who possess an active Warframe research program, can be believed to have created technology to jam the ability to interface with Void energies over a limited area.

[VoidNomade]

17 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

That sounds more closed minded than willing to discuss possibilities other than what you believe.

It´s actually not really about what i believe. It´s about logic. Possibilities is another word for "we do not know but like to assume unreasonable things".

 

19 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Whatever DE puts in the game is Lore since they are the creators.

No problem. There is no lore about Nullifier. That´s the thing mate.

 

20 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 It's insulting to the creators of the content. 

More Drama. Actually it´s more insulting that they think such a lore hole would be unnoticed by the community.

 

18 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

Quotes from the Wiki

Thanks, i do not listen to the radio station for over a year now.

 

19 minutes ago, Inarticulate said:

The Corpus, who possess significantly more advanced technology compared to the Grineer and who possess an active Warframe research program

The Corpus are still light years behind the Orokin.

The funny thing is, this is even the front yard of the problem. Even IF (a big if) they would be able to pull off such a technology do you really think the Tenno and Lotus would let them have such a Technology? Do you think Lotus would let the Sentient have it? Jesus Christ people...

[DatDarkOne]

He just ignored information and statements that could be counter to his belief.  It's now just a useless one-sided argument now. 

I will leave with this tidbit.  Knowing something and being able to do something about it are two different things.  Ex: the U.S.S.R knew about the SR-71 flying over them, but couldn't do a damn thing about it. 

[GreyEnneract]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

Whatever DE puts in the game is Lore since they are the creators.  Anything you say about lore-breaking is counter to that one simple FACT.  It's insulting to the creators of the content. 

This is irrelevant, because in reality, plot holes exist. As do inconsistencies within many other created universes.

In the real world claiming something is a fact haphazardly just results in you being laughed at.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

This is irrelevant, because in reality, plot holes exist. As do inconsistencies within many other created universes.

In the real world claiming something is a fact haphazardly just results in you being laughed at.

Let's take this scenario.  I create something with a story.  I then put in something new, but leave it's backstory vague.  Now you come along and tell me that my new item is lore breaking to something that I created.  That is the insulting part that I was referring to.  If you can't see that, then there is no more need for either of us to respond. 

[GreyEnneract]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Let's take this scenario.  I create something with a story.  I then put in something new, but leave it's backstory vague.  Now you come along and tell me that my new item is lore breaking to something that I created.  That is the insulting part that I was referring to.  If you can't see that, then there is no more need for either of us to respond. 

Saying there's no need for either of us to respond is just a shrewd silencing tactic.

Whether it's insulting or not is for DE to decide, you are not DE. Stop trying to debate through emotion and try using logic instead.

You're trying to hide the fact that plot holes and inconsistencies in all manners of stories exist to push your faulty argument.

And if you try to claim that they don't exist then you are in denial of reality.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

Stop trying to debate through emotion

LMAO!!  *pause*   LMMFAO!

[Kaiser_Suoh]

So, if corpus have the nullifier tech, then why we are still alive?

I mean, they can make all their corpus and machines a Nullifier right?

Even all the ship, making it a Nullifier ship.

Then why Combas even exist? why not Nullifier instead? why just a half-nullifier?

That is lore breaking.

[GreyEnneract]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

LMAO!!  *pause*   LMMFAO!

That's what I thought ;^)

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

6 hours ago, VoidNomade said:

Yes, and some people, as their customers, provide them with suggestions and feedback about their product to enhance and develop it for a greater enjoyment and quality.

Lore realism and consistency is one of those things. 

We don´t need to bite the bullet every time. We are able to communicate with DE and let them hear our thoughts and hope they either see it as we do or they think that it´s a good idea to follow the demand.

The problem is that, from personal experience at least, they couldn't give two fucks, excuse my french, about what we think of the lore.

[Hypernaut1]

How is it lore breaking that Corpus discovered a way to void WF powers?

Are you trying to say that it should be impossible at all to discover such tech? What would be your reasoning behind this?

If lex Luther could "discover" Kryptonite, then corpus could easily discover a weakness of the WFs. There's nothing lore breaking about it. It could be new tech. There could easily be a "valid" reason why they can't make them add big as ships.

For all we know the corpus could have found some mineral that nullifies void powers. It could be anything. We have no idea how the somatic link works, anything is game....including materializing out of thin air to confuse enemies and turn your WF invisible. Anything goes if DE says it's so.

[SolaireTheSunWalker]

I personally think units that are able to disable powers is a good thing now on the other hand current nullifiers are poorly designed and using weapons such as snipers,bows etc take forever to pop a bubble and force you to use a side arm that shoots fast to break their bubbles faster is just bad 

Edited June 15, 2016 by SolaireTheSunWalker