Ramparts NEED to be nerfed

[cornfed_pig]

they make life miserable when you are playing with a low level frame in a low level area. by miserable I mean that I do not want to play anymore because I cannot complete this mission because of this complete absurdity. most of the time they insta kill low level frame before I can even see them then respawn get killed again and then if I am playing solo some rooms I am not able to get around them to kill the gunner safely so thats usually another death to get close. then I am out of revives and wasted 5 minutes

Why do I need a lvl 30 frame in a lvl 10 zone to make any progress.

[Knightmare047]

I can understand making them immune to punch through as that would make them too easy to beat(IMO). But I'd agree if the Ramparts to get some sort of nerf. Perhaps adding a spool up(like the Gorgon) before it reaches its full fire rate and slow down their rotation speed. Kind of making them like a stationary Heavy Gunner unit but without the knockdown.

The Heavy Gunners' Gorgons having a spool up and a distinct firing sound gives the player enough time to know that they're around and find cover or kill them. If they do hit the player with the first two or three shots, it's damage won't kill the players outright(for the most part) and provide them ample time to respond before they reach the full spool up where they can kill the player easily. I think this could be a reasonable nerf for the Ramparts.

[Uhkretor]

On 07/06/2016 at 6:28 AM, cromignon said:

Parkour is useless against enemies with high ROF and instant hitscan weapons. You can't sneak around them, they track.

If you lack weaponry with punchthrough abilities, or explosive weaponry, jump higher than the vertical limit of those ramparts (YES, it does exist). Just by doing that, whatever grineer unit that's using that rampart will leave it.

On 07/06/2016 at 6:37 AM, HarrodTasker said:

I don't think they're hitscan, just fast projectiles.

Visually, they appear to be fast projectiles. However, they are really hit-scan.

 

What I did notice about it is that damage scales with the level of the grineer unit. A grineer unit of lvl10 using a rampart won't do the same damage as a grineer unit of lvl50 using that same rampart. Damage will respectively scale from 30 damage per hit, for example, to 280 damage per hit. With its high rate of fire, that's like eating with 30 Gorgons being used by 12 Heavy Gunners of lvl120. Now, on a sortie, where enemies can range from lvl70 to lvl150... I ate with a rampart used by a lvl130 grineer and, suffice to say, it wasn't pretty... Ending that damage scaling should be enough to balance things regarding those ramparts... Or rampart damage scaling with OUR primary weapon damage, because we could also enjoy the same benefits...

[cromignon]

I have so much punch-through it's ridiculous. So ridiculous that the front face of the Ramparts refuse to believe it exists, and that's enough to stop it from happening. 

[Onokosha]

I agree ramparts need major nerfing. They're damage are insanely strong even on low level missions. I'd even preferred that they be removed from the game. When they showed them on devstreams, we all thought this would be a fun idea use on enemies. However, they're just something that provide more benefits to enemies then they do to players. It shreds through our health but when we use it, in most cases, were better off using our weapons since the grineer are heavily armored.

[DSpite]

On 07/06/2016 at 3:07 AM, cromignon said:

Anyhow, the Grineer Ramparts. Nerf their damage output. Lock their swivel bases to a 180* turn radius. Restore punch-through damage to it. Remove the invulnerability to the front face of it. Make the AI hesitant to use them. Limit the number of these things spawned in a 300m radial area. Something. ANYTHING. Nothing is worse than being mobbed my five Arid Hellions, three Heavy Gunners, and a Hyekka Master, just barely tanking all the damage they're whaling on you, then WHAM!, you're never gonna dance again because a grunt just crawled into a Rampart and shot your legs out from under you.

You have 4 revives a mission. I also can't recall the last time a Rampart was a problem unless you already start on a very high level Grineer map, and if you are, why are you racing into tilesets you know contain Ramparts?

If you are getting mobbed by "five Arid Hellions, three Heavy Gunners, and a Hyekka Master" and are on a tile with an live Rampart, who's fault is that anyway?

You did not state mission type, how long you were there, what the heck you were doing etc etc. You just stated "nerf Ramparts" and gave no logic other then "I ended up in a lethal situation, and there was ALSO a Rampart".

 

[DSpite]

47 minutes ago, Onokosha said:

I agree ramparts need major nerfing. They're damage are insanely strong even on low level missions. I'd even preferred that they be removed from the game. When they showed them on devstreams, we all thought this would be a fun idea use on enemies. However, they're just something that provide more benefits to enemies then they do to players. It shreds through our health but when we use it, in most cases, were better off using our weapons since the grineer are heavily armored.

Really? Fancy that. An enemy emplacement that actually favors the enemy.

Yours is an insane statement, ie the assumption that an enemy should construct and allow defenses that get used more by the enemy that just walked in, rather then the purpose it was constructed for, ie, stop the enemy.

Ramparts should AT THE VERY MINIMUM need to be "hacked" before they can be used by us. MINIMUM.

[HarrodTasker]

19 minutes ago, DSpite said:

Ramparts should AT THE VERY MINIMUM need to be "hacked" before they can be used by us. MINIMUM.

I wouldn't mind that so long as once hacked it could no longer be used by enemies.  Destroying ramparts on sorties takes tons and tons of ammo.

[DSpite]

8 hours ago, cornfed_pig said:

they make life miserable when you are playing with a low level frame in a low level area. by miserable I mean that I do not want to play anymore because I cannot complete this mission because of this complete absurdity. most of the time they insta kill low level frame before I can even see them then respawn get killed again and then if I am playing solo some rooms I am not able to get around them to kill the gunner safely so thats usually another death to get close. then I am out of revives and wasted 5 minutes

Why do I need a lvl 30 frame in a lvl 10 zone to make any progress.

I find that seriously hard to believe.

I ran tests with a bunch of Frames and weapons back in a discussion about Punch Through, and practically every Frame in the game has something in it's kit to basically shut down Rampart use long enough to go kill it, simply because they require a LIVE unit, and if you remove the enemy unit from the Rampart, the Rampart is "dead".

I just spend about 40 minutes running around on Grineer tiles and the only one I hit Ramparts on started on a level 22 map, and even then they only spawns on specific tiles, so when those tiles show up on Radar, it's just a matter of "not running straight into the open".

Another thing. If you burn "4 Revives in 5 minutes", I'd suggest a change in play style.

 

[Spergin_McBadposter]

On 6/7/2016 at 11:35 AM, Genitive said:

Ramparts' AI is quite bugged. Enemies using them can see you from the other side of the map and through walls; I often experienced ramparts shooting in my direction even before I entered the room.

That's not actually bugged. The enemy AI knows where you are at all times when alerted, which is why I can round a corner and immediately drop dead because the gunner has already rotated the rampart to track me before either of us had line of sight to each other. :DE:

[That1Cactus]

The things that need to be changed for Ramparts are the ones that make it the worst to fight. The damage output is fine because it IS a turret, but there are still far too many problems with it in general.

First off, enemies using it aim WAY TOO FAST making it nearly impossible to dodge and get behind, even with parkour the Rampart's crosshair is glued too you with no chance to avoid. So the turning/aiming speed needs to be lowered.

Rampart's AI is too clairvoyant, so many times during a perfect stealth run there is that one Rampart that knows where you are EVEN WHEN INVISIBLE. And since the enemy Rampart's firing doesn't alert nearby enemies it is more annoying because of how inconsistent the enemies awareness is.

Ramparts being godmode in the front is pure bullS#&$, and the fact that shooting the front literally erases/phases any bullet/projectile is beyond broken. In reality they should still be affected by Punch-through and instead of being godmode they should have a damage reduction when getting hit in the front. Adding that when enemies are getting onto the Rampart, they are given an invulnerable state which makes it impossible to kill them before they start shooting, and with their fast/pinpoint accuracy you'll be shot down immediately without any way to stop it.

Another thing is that Ramparts that are operated by us are FAR LESS EFFECTIVE, which is pretty much rigged because if an enemy is able to mow down us in seconds we should be able to have that amount of firepower in our control. Adding that we still take damage from the front(when they can't).

Also the audio of the Rampart's firing needs to be audible from distances because there are way too many situations where Ramparts are sniping and there is not a single sound playing that lets us know one is firing at us.

In the end Ramparts need to be tweaked heavily in function and balance while keeping it's damage for both enemies and teammates.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Turn speed and radius needs major nerfs, make it so actually flanking the turrets does something.

[cromignon]

21 hours ago, DSpite said:

 

Ramparts should AT THE VERY MINIMUM need to be "hacked" before they can be used by us. MINIMUM.

No. Shut up.

[Vohim]

i dont know if anyone here knows but i ll lend you in a top secret confidential secret :

Spoiler

Ramparts Can Be Destroyed.

theres not even 10 of them per map , they are highly punishing but far from broken 

Except for the instant turning 

[GrimAtrament]

On 6/6/2016 at 11:37 PM, HarrodTasker said:

I don't think they're hitscan, just fast projectiles.  I mean, I agree with the rest of what you're saying here but I wanted to be precise.

no i tested they are hitscan like all grneer weapons

[cornfed_pig]

On 9/9/2016 at 8:04 PM, DSpite said:

I ran tests with a bunch of Frames and weapons back in a discussion about Punch Through, and practically every Frame in the game has something in it's kit to basically shut down Rampart use long enough to go kill it, simply because they require a LIVE unit, and if you remove the enemy unit from the Rampart, the Rampart is "dead".

Did you use a bunch of mods in a lvl 1 frame with a high level Mastery? Also very nice that you are running with weapons specifically for that while I am just trying to have fun in a low level zone with low level frame, low level weapons and low mastery. They 1 shot  lvl 1-5 frames easily and often there is not a way to get close when playing solo.

Take lvl 1 volt and mk1 weapon with 1-2 mods and go see if they 1 shot you and whatever or not you would have trouble.

Taking over leveled frame just to run around in a low level zone because of a single reason - ramparts that are harder than most low level bosses does not make sense.

[Kefka]

On 07/06/2016 at 6:28 AM, cromignon said:

Parkour is useless against enemies with high ROF and instant hitscan weapons. You can't sneak around them, they track. 

bullet jump and then shoot the guy on the rampart you jackass, it's a simple fix to your problem that's not really a problem. git gud in other words, it's simply not that difficult to deal with ramparts if you just target the idiot using it instead of the rampart itself.

[DSpite]

14 hours ago, cornfed_pig said:

Did you use a bunch of mods in a lvl 1 frame with a high level Mastery? Also very nice that you are running with weapons specifically for that while I am just trying to have fun in a low level zone with low level frame, low level weapons and low mastery. They 1 shot  lvl 1-5 frames easily and often there is not a way to get close when playing solo.

Take lvl 1 volt and mk1 weapon with 1-2 mods and go see if they 1 shot you and whatever or not you would have trouble.

Taking over leveled frame just to run around in a low level zone because of a single reason - ramparts that are harder than most low level bosses does not make sense.

Did I just not say that I ran a test, and could NOT find Ramparts until a level 22 mission? Why are you in a Rank 1 Frame on a high level planet? Am I supposed to care you are ranking up, because the answer here is "No, you put yourself in a dangerous situation, you deal with it".

I have ALSO said I have done tests with different Frames and PT in different ways, and if you are still running into tiles YOU KNOW contain Ramparts at full speed, it's your own fault. They have preset locations, and are not hard to memorize.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by DSpite

[TaylorsContraction]

On 6/23/2016 at 6:56 AM, Vahnkiljoy said:

I think they would be fine if they didn't seem to instantly incap/kill me with no real notice, you'd think they would give the ramparts some actual audio when an enemy is shooting it like the heavy grineer troopers.

^ this. The problem I have is that they are so silent, especially since often you're being gunned down from across the room. Ramparts need a warning sound when a grineer is getting into one. No not a siren, but like a loud barrel's spooling up sound to let you know that hell is about to rain on you if you don't move your behind.

[BalicBlackthorn]

Ramparts are the bane of my existence in this game. If there is one anywhere in the tri-system area and I DON'T take it out, a Greneer WILL climb into it when I am not looking and shoot me in the back.

All I ask is you nerf their HP or make attacks to the back of them to some stupid amount of bonus damage, so I don't have to stand there smacking the thing for 30 seconds after I kill the arsehat who shot me.

[zehne]

I 'tested' ramparts out, and I have a feeling that all this QQ rampart OP talk is really just players who either don't know how to rock-paper-scissors vs them or are taking a minor annoyance and are mommy-mommy'ing them.

Went to Naga, set off alarms and filled a room up with a billion grineer.  The room with ~~4 ramparts in it(and ~~5 entrances/exits).  Also it's the room with low ceilings and pits/obstacles that makes parkour more 'challenging'.  I ran around avoiding killing stuff (dodging napalms, bombards, getting shot alot) until I came across an active rampart.  I tried to parkour over it, a bombard landed a smash on me while I was mid bullet-jump.  I landed 5ft in front of the rampart and it went to town on me.  I recovered from knockdown, double jumped in air and then it was good-bye rampart.  One slam attack from fang prime with 0 mods instantly knocked the grineer off of the rampart.  And no I was not running a tank frame or using warframe powers.  A 'squish' frame and 0 powers.

Yeah ramparts are generally the culprits behind damaging you severely and possibly even killing you especially in sorties, but the fact remains that it takes only a single slam attack that can be done in all of about ~~0.2 seconds after reaching a rampart to stop it from shooting at you.

 

tldr;

Parkour, slam attack GG.

[Chipputer]

On 9/10/2016 at 8:58 AM, cromignon said:

No. Shut up.

Why? It's not like they do much damage when players use them, anyway. Generally stepping onto a Rampart is only to keep an enemy from stepping on to it during a Sortie, where it takes an obscene amount of damage to destroy one.

[Replacement]

Echoing @HarrodTasker -- I don't mind fast turn speed, but it shouldn't be instant, and it'd be nice of they had their health cut by at least 25%.  

[iPathos]

It's a similar problem to Shield Lancers and their shield's invulnerability to damage. At the very least that should be removed, allowing us to shoot at the enemies manning ramparts through their front faces, even if only through the little windows.

A nerf to hitpoints, turning radius and/or speed would also not go amiss. The point here is not that they're the most ridiculous enemy tools in the game, however their scaling is way out of wack and definitely could use some tweaks.

As has been said, Parkour is almost always not an option vs the higher leveled ramparts, as they can both one-shot you and will tend to track you well before you're even visible.

[Eric1738]

They really should have nerfed its turn rate.