Overpowered players

[(XBOX)Skode]

1 hour ago, RistN said:

Yeah and while at it why don't we change the name of this game :)

I hate learning new reworked mechanics and new abilitys on reworked warframes.There is a lot of content in Warframe and I don't wanna go back to old stuff.Why could not them just test it in game and realize that some warframes or weapons or even mods or game mechanics are just too op before realising it rather than changing them over and over again.

I worked my a** off playing this game and making my equipment and warframes "big pink elephant in the room".What do I get for that?Instead of moving up me and players on my lvl get constantly downgraded.

Leave frames and game mechanics alone!Fix stuff that needs fixing,give us new stuff and then gradualy change some crutial things in this game.

There was nothing wrong with Volt and Mag but DE spent their time and resources making changes to them.Ok ,but what about Zephir,Limbo?When is their time gonna come?No one uses them.

Stop saying on forums: change basic mechanics of the game,change warframes that nothing is wrong with in the first place.There are lots of old things that need to be changed before changing some big things and conception of whole game.

Take away EV,take away our damage but whatever change is done ,me and others are gonna find a way to exploit them and make us OP once again.So this is a story without end to it.

There was nothing wrong with old mag? What? You mean apart from the fact she was a terrible frame to fight infested and worst of all grineer (she's a starter frame after all). Low synergy between powers and a kit where duration was I'll advised but Bullet Attractor relied upon it. Lets overlook the no passive argument too vs Excalibur the better option. She was fine was she?

You can't say fix stuff that needs fixing then moan they're using resources to do exactly that. Limbo is next to get rework, they've already said as much.

[Grumpy]

No, no, and no.   It took time, grinding, farming, and more time, to become so called " OP ".  There is no such thing.   It's called putting time into your warframe and modding it the way you like it.  I have never seen such a self-destructive community that is so bent ruining game play for everyone else because someone who actually took the time to learn and play their warframe happens to stumble across your mission and do well.  I have forma'd warframes and I hide around corners to avoid fire,  don't run off into countless mobs and die over and over causing my group to fail, pick up air canisters and use them on evacuations, and actually turn the points on interceptions instead of running uptop to die like most people do in Draco.  I see a huge difference in the experts that post in the forums, compared to how people actually play in the game.

[TheBrsrkr]

36 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

No, no, and no.   It took time, grinding, farming, and more time, to become so called " OP ".  There is no such thing.   It's called putting time into your warframe and modding it the way you like it. 

And? It took time and modding for other players to build their frames too, except they can't use them because of you. See what I'm getting at here? Being OP isn't just an opinion, it's based of game mechanics and their interactions with players. It doesn't mean "he got moar kills then me l33t hax0rs pls nerf" .If you'd read the thread I'm sure you'd have seen this exact thing posted elsewhere. 

36 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

  I have never seen such a self-destructive community that is so bent ruining game play for everyone else because someone who actually took the time to learn and play their warframe happens to stumble across your mission and do well.  I have forma'd warframes and I hide around corners to avoid fire,  don't run off into countless mobs and die over and over causing my group to fail, pick up air canisters and use them on evacuations, and actually turn the points on interceptions instead of running uptop to die like most people do in Draco.  I see a huge difference in the experts that post in the forums, compared to how people actually play in the game.

No one cares about you, they care about them. No one cares about kills, they care about playing. No one goes into a fit of rage when they see you have 1000+ kills more than them simply because you have more kills than them. They care because of the 1000+ enemies they could have fought, they only actually get to fight maybe 100 or so and had nothing else to do but stand around while Timmy the Power Gamer blasts away with his Tonkor and kills everything in sight with one click. In a game that lasts 40 minutes, 100 kills will give you about 5-10 minutes of gameplay, which means 35 minutes is spent watching someone else play. As in, not what they came to do. Pointing and clicking, or with certain weapons just clicking, is not "learning how to play".Sitting in Draco Five times in an hour to have a fully upgraded weapon is not "learning how to play". Indefinite lockdown of enemies who can oneshot you at any time they aren't locked down is not good gameplay. You would already know this if you'd read any of the larger threads on the topic.

[S41CO]

If they are gonna change the damage system let it be something similar to: a weapon does a certain percentage of damage according to the enemies armour/shields and health so that weapons could at least be a little similar

[Grumpy]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

And? It took time and modding for other players to build their frames too, except they can't use them because of you. See what I'm getting at here? Being OP isn't just an opinion, it's based of game mechanics and their interactions with players. It doesn't mean "he got moar kills then me l33t hax0rs pls nerf" .If you'd read the thread I'm sure you'd have seen this exact thing posted elsewhere. 

No one cares about you, they care about them. No one cares about kills, they care about playing. No one goes into a fit of rage when they see you have 1000+ kills more than them simply because you have more kills than them. They care because of the 1000+ enemies they could have fought, they only actually get to fight maybe 100 or so and had nothing else to do but stand around while Timmy the Power Gamer blasts away with his Tonkor and kills everything in sight with one click. In a game that lasts 40 minutes, 100 kills will give you about 5-10 minutes of gameplay, which means 35 minutes is spent watching someone else play. As in, not what they came to do. Pointing and clicking, or with certain weapons just clicking, is not "learning how to play".Sitting in Draco Five times in an hour to have a fully upgraded weapon is not "learning how to play". Indefinite lockdown of enemies who can oneshot you at any time they aren't locked down is not good gameplay. You would already know this if you'd read any of the larger threads on the topic.

Last time I checked shared exp was better than running off on your own and killing a few NPC's.  And I've seen people die with Tonkor, it's no excuse. 

[TheBrsrkr]

1 minute ago, Grumpy said:

Last time I checked shared exp was better than running off on your own and killing a few NPC's.  

Last I checked playing the damn game to have fun was more important than XP on the fully upgraded weapons and frames you were talking about.

 

2 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

.  And I've seen people die with Tonkor, it's no excuse. 

I don't know how you translate overpowered to not being able to die when we're talking about weapons. "You can still die" is no excuse because you can still die with any frame, any weapon and any build. The Tonkor doesn't have a magic death prevention shield.

[(PSN)AllEyezOnThee]

The mod system is obsolete and creates problems for a games balance - especially when it comes to mods that create pure damage boosts.

You shouldn't be able to slap a fully ranked mod onto any current or new warframe whenever you want. Level progression should go frame by frame - weapon by weapon, and depending if you prefer a specific frame you'll go further in mastering that frame and tweak it to your play style. And no I don't mean the current level progression we have, getting to level 30 is simple - but progressing the frame itself should be entirely different.

The play style and power of a frame/weapon shouldn't be dependent on mods whatsoever. 

 

Below is a famous old thread on why warframe needs a rebalance and I've quoted only a section of it to read in this thread. This is what we need in warframe - please read it all. (OP of the thread had a 1,000+ up votes just to give you an idea as to why it should be implemented)

 

Here is where a large point of contention rears its ugly head. Replacing the Mod Card system, is a skill tree. Albeit a skill tree that actually works and is well designed. Without going into detail about what the specifics of what each tree entails (which will be done in a separate thread), here is my method of fixing what we currently have.
     
Each Warframe has its own skill tree. This would include our now standard A/B/C loadouts which would afford players to further customize and create builds for specific situations, allowing for quick swapping of play styles on the fly. The skill tree would be separated into 3 parts.
     
    
     
    For those of you who say "But we already had a skill tree and it sucked", just look.
     
    This is what we had:
     
    
     
    This is what I am proposing (this is a mere visual representation):
     
    
     
     
The upwards arrows indicate standard progression of power in a branch, the cyclical arrow represent the equality of point distribution- any item in that tree is available at any time given you have the points for it. This is explained below. Do note the key visual and actual difference in these trees. They function 100% differently and citing we already had a skill tree is not a real criticism as again, these are so vastly different that there is no comparison. I understand reading can be hard, especially when there is a lot of it. The old skill tree utilized random stated mods in conjunction with poor layout and strict progression without variance to powers, without tactical and meaningful side-grades/alterations to power functionality. If you actually read the information below, it is extremely obvious how this is intended to work. As of 6/16/2014 I have decided to being reformatting the skill tree thread itself and it should be posted within the coming weeks.
     
The key is creating a means in which the player can utilize mods like Intruder, without having them share the same space as Redirection or Focus. When your Warframe increases in level, they receive a flat increase to things like shields, energy and health. But unlike now, the increases would be a bit more significant. Along with receiving a boots to stats upon leveling, players receive points to spend in their skill tree. Each branch of the tree pulls from its own pool of points. So for each level you are given 1 point to spend per tree. Because you are pulling points from different pools, it eliminates one of the largest downsides of the current system: Mods like Intruder having to share the same space with Focus or Redirection.
     
Below the branches are the roots (labeled precept on the above concept image). These roots contain base stat increases, that are unlocked upon reaching the required Mastery Rank. The higher your Mastery Rank, the more powerful your Warframe becomes. These roots will contain increases in things like power range, shield and stamina totals. These create an innate boots to your Warframe's power making choices made above the roots (in the branches) more potent, as well as rewarding the player for increasing their Mastery Rank.
     
The real key comes from what is inside the branches of the tree. Because each tree is pulling from its own point pool, the player is awarded more freedom. Recently Ember's Overheat was nerfed (It has now been removed). The reason being, Scott told us she was not a tank. Choice was supposed to be a centric theme around the game (from my understanding). Choosing the Warframe you like best and building them the way you want. With my skill tree, I put that choice back in the hands of the player. By creating parameters around which the players can alter their powers to their liking, you can assure that no matter what, they will be effective in combat. It also creates real and purposeful choice.
     
    Right now someone could join a mission with the following build:
     
    
     
This really is nothing more than a joke. Giving players the ability to gimp their effectiveness via poor design choices is just stupid. What this showcases is too much choice, for the wrong reasons. Just because someone can, doesn't mean they should and because they can, they won't. Players will stick to mods that they know will be effective What my skill tree does is eliminates bad choices, so what it comes down to is preference. People like to play Ember. She was previously seen as a viable tank. Sure people can still spec all shields, health and armor; but the fun was the balance between high damage and defense via her powers. As I stated above, give that choice back to the players.
     
This is where the Power tree gets its chance to shine. Ember is a caster. With Overheat she becomes tanky, while still dealing damage. What if players could sacrifice the damage of Fireball or Fireblast, for increased damage reduction or duration on Overheat? Player could customize their powers to their liking. Tweak each powers' functionality to fit their play-style. Some Warframes will always better at certain roles, but due to the nature of the Power tree you can blur those lines. Allow players to sacrifice the power of Tesla Grenades, for an increase to the number of enemies that Bastille can trap and vice versa.
     
These are functions the current Mod Card system does not allow for, outside of flat increases to things like duration or damage. The key lies in making something like Super Jump a viable choice rather than Slash Dash or Radial Javelin. You can make that work, but this thread is not about the specifics but rather the potential.
     
Potential. There is potential for mods like Maglev or Intruder. But as I stated above, they get cast aside for better mods. While the Power and Systems trees create a standard progression of powers with trade offs; the Utility trees does the opposite. Instead of having to plug points into a skill or modification to get higher up the tree, you can pick any Utility power at any time (hence the cyclical arrows in the mock up). There is no progression to the tree aside from putting multiple points into the same power to increase its effectiveness. If you want Maglev, you got it. If you want a bunch of energy, you got it. While people may think that everyone would stack just energy capacity, I will address this in the skill tree thread and I can assure it will not be an issue.
     
The way these trees work in conjunction with the A/B/C loadouts, there is no min-maxing. Increasing stats like power damage or duration on a larger scale are tied to Mastery Precepts, players are free to experiment. It should also be noted that Warframes receive their powers without having to spend a single point on it. You can go about this several ways, but I feel that you should give the player their first two abilities at level 1, then the next two at level 10. No one should ever have to forfeit one of their Warframe's powers just to min-max a build.
     
What this accomplishes, is everything the Mod Card system does and more. It creates true, viable creativity and a means to measure progression. A player with a level 30 Excalibur and a Mastery rank of 6 will have a measurable set of stats. The skill tree allows fluctuation of those stats, but never in a negative way due to the Precepts. Players of a specific Mastery Rank will always have similar stats. Meaning you can design challenging enemies and scenarios around player Mastery Rank.
     
But how do players increase their Mastery Rank? They can complete systems, participate in Alerts, level Warframes and guns. But wait, with mods gone; how do guns work? Better than ever.
     
Currently with Damage 2.0 and the Mod Card system, things are pretty ornery. No one would ever build a gun without Serration, Hornet Strike or Point Blank. So why are they even in the game? You are creating an unnecessary hurdle for people. The amount of effort it takes to max these mods is ridiculous even for the most dedicated players. What does leaving these in the game currently achieve? Serration, Hornet Strike and Point Blank need to disappear alongside with the Mod Card system.
     
In its place: Attachments. Again moving away from the idea of playing the game to obtain drops, specific mods and sinking credits into those mods; you can refocus the game on the mechanics and player interaction with their weapons and each other, moving away from end rewards and randomness. If every weapon has clearly laid out stats that increase with use, along with craftable attachments that take up a predetermined number of slots, you return the idea of player choice to your game. As of right now, with mods such as Serration, you are already telling the player how to play the game; instead of creating a means in which they can create their own play styles. By implementing an attachment system that is inherently limited, you create a more strategic system of play and restore diversity to guns.
     
This feeds right into the idea of Damage 2.0 and in fact works better in conjunction with Damage 2.0 than the Mod Card system ever could. Warframe has several weapon types; pistols, shotguns, launchers, rifles, bows and sniper rifles, certain mods created and still create problems. Previously if you equipped Shred or Metal Auger on the Ogris, it cause the payload to fly through walls and floors only to detonate off screen. Sharing mods for Rifles and Launchers is just a bad idea. While you could create separate yet equivalent mods across types, that doesn't accent the different styles of play each weapon type could bring to the game. If you did add more weapon specific mods to the game, you further pollute the drop tables.
     
While the mechanics of certain mods remain, they appear as attachments relegated to certain slots as to avoid things like Rainbow builds. As well as to create strategy when choosing certain attachment combinations. Different weapon types will have different attachments. (This goes into more detail in the weapons thread linked at the top of this post)
     
    The attachments will fall into the following categories:
     
    
     
The attachment system creates an asymmetrical way guns can be customized, which better play into the new Damage 2.0 model. It places more emphasis on what you choose for any given scenario, while still maintaining the power of the gun.
     
Mods should not make the gun. The gun should should already be a lethal entity. Because of Serration and the power of the mods currently, it gives an excuse to release less than potent firearms. If the guns themselves were already built to be powerful and enhanced through leveling as well as attachments that complimented specific play styles, it would be better. Cutting fat from the drop tables even further and empowering people to use guns they like, rather that what is the best; the heart of this concept.
     
    
     
While these should be visual attachments, that is indeed a lot of work. Just implementing the system and adding the visual attachments later would suffice. Due to attachments being crafted items, it allows for more blueprints to be added to ClanTech and the store. Encounter bosses or Alerts could also serve as a method to obtain blueprints for attachments. There would need to be a balance, as to avoid the overuse of RNG again.
     
It should be noted that the inclusion of scopes and the way it affects rifles visually is a point of contention. I am of the camp that should a scope be seen on the top of the gun but not used in the gameplay. Just have bullet spread decrease when holding down RMB with a scope attached (or whatever the desired stat/effect). As for Sniper rifles and Bows, that is a different story. Scope overlays have now been added. Things like Bows could also use sights visually in the gameplay; but this is all conjecture having little impact on the ideas proposed and should not take away from the message.
     
With mods completely gone from Warframes and guns; where does that leave melee? Once again, better off. Replacing mods and the entire melee system is the Fight Lab.
     
Right now melee is completely unviable, nor does it compliment gunplay or power use. It is a very basic and unrewarding single button action. There are members of the community that want Warframe to have a fighting system as deep and robust as Devil May Cry or other games of the like. While I personally like those games, the concept is lost on most as the nuances and complexity are way above the skill ceiling for Warframe. But that does not mean we cannot have high fidelity, combo based combat. Enter the Fight Lab.
     
Tenno are masters of gun and blade. What does that mean to be a master of blade? Maxing Pressure Point and pressing E? Once again there is little to no choice in the way players build or use their melee weapons. So what needs to change how we use our weapons. Tenno are warriors and not all warriors use the same fighting techniques. At the root of the Fight Lab are stances.
     
Stances affect the way Tenno use their melee weapon. Furious single target strikes. Large sweeping swings. Refined movements and blade control. Stances are the foundation of my proposed melee system. Tempest, a high damage single target stance. Made for dispatching heavily fortified enemies quickly. Boundless, a multitarget stance. Made for crowd control and room clearing. Duelist, a utility based stance. Made for preservation of the practitioner as well as exposing weaknesses in enemies.
     
Each stance serves a purpose and heavily affects the way you handle your melee weapon. This allows for weapons that are normally reserved for single targets with our current system, to become more versatile. Weapons like the Skana or Obex can strike multiple targets when in the Boundless stance. Because these single target weapons may possess larger innate Impact, Puncture or Slash damage; selecting them becomes viable. Leveling weapons will of course increase your Mastery Rank but also unlock features of each stance.
     
   
     
The stances are also broken up into trees. Again using the Precept/Root system to unlock passive abilities as you progress in Mastery Rank. These passive abilities compliment the stance and increase overall effectiveness with weapons. Leveling a weapon using a specific stance unlocks a combo for said stance. This is what you see above the precepts. For example:
     
You select the Tempest Stance and equip a Skana. Being of a specific Mastery Rank, your unranked Skana has certain bonuses that will make leveling it easier, because of the innate modifiers awarded through precepts. Because your Skana is unranked, you only have one Combo to customize. A combo consists of strikes. There are 4 types of strikes: Damage, Health, Energy and Chain.
     
Damage strikes, are attacks that do more damage. Health strikes reward the player for completing a combo with refunded health. The same applies to Energy strikes. Chain strikes are low damage, high fidelity maneuvers that lengthen a combo chain. By default, all combos are 4 strikes in length. Placing a chain in the middle or the end of a combo will increase the strike slots available. If your combo ends on a damage strike, you do more damage. If you end on a health strike, you receive more health and so on. Because the potency of a Strike is increased the farther it is in the combo, utilizing your Chain strikes will allow for drastic increases to the effects of completing said combo.
     
Strikes are unlocked as you level a weapon in a specific stance. Each stance has its own set of strikes for a specific weapon. While this may seem like a lot of work, it is more plausible than you might think. Weapons like the Hate or Reaper prime already share animations. To make a set of animations for their Tempest and Duelist stances is really only to make 2 new sets. So 3 sets of single attack animations for every weapon.

[RistN]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Skode said:

There was nothing wrong with old mag? What? You mean apart from the fact she was a terrible frame to fight infested and worst of all grineer (she's a starter frame after all). Low synergy between powers and a kit where duration was I'll advised but Bullet Attractor relied upon it. Lets overlook the no passive argument too vs Excalibur the better option. She was fine was she?

You can't say fix stuff that needs fixing then moan they're using resources to do exactly that. Limbo is next to get rework, they've already said as much.

Mag was ok frame.It had its use.Matter of fact he was strongest frame there is against Corpus and with that said why do you even need her to be good at killing infested or greener just take something else against them.All warframes are good and bad at same time in many situations.I think Mag was reworked just because Mesa did,cause it was too OP.So you can't really say Mag was no good.

But what I tried to say is that many other things should got  reworked before this.And also I don't wanna spend time building some frame just to be changed overall.If they realese something,test it real good,realies it and  leave them be.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

3 hours ago, RistN said:

Mag was ok frame.It had its use.Matter of fact he was strongest frame there is against Corpus and with that said why do you even need her to be good at killing infested or greener just take something else against them.All warframes are good and bad at same time in many situations.I think Mag was reworked just because Mesa did,cause it was too OP.So you can't really say Mag was no good.

But what I tried to say is that many other things should got  reworked before this.And also I don't wanna spend time building some frame just to be changed overall.If they realese something,test it real good,realies it and  leave them be.

Mag was a goddess vs the corpus and borderline useless against anything else. Her shield polarize was nothing short of a corpus kill button. She could basically complete 4-men defense all on her own just by pressing 2. She was broken so DE reworked her.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Fuzzy-Bunny

[Rex13568]

3 hours ago, (PS4)lNoctus said:

 

Very much Shortend for convenience

 

Thanks for the thought you put into this but... adding all of those changes would be great if it was another game but as of right now many many people like the game how it is even if they don't like cheese.

[Otaiken]

What you've got there INoctus is a developer suicide.

You've got overhaul that would needs resources on a scale of almost making a new game. You got obsoletion of several systems that players sunk time and real money into (and not ALL of the players dislike current system).

What exactly is the point? That maybe the game might be better after you made the entire playerbase start again from ground up? How the F*** do you transition to that thing? You're painting cloud castles there. You're not even trying to work WITH the current systems, you just throw it all away.

Edited July 6, 2016 by LocoWithGun

[Duduminador]

Agree with a lot of what OP says, not all. But certainly agree with the concept that Overpowered should be based on tweaking a frame or weapon into making it effective against a faction or a mission type and not: A frame or weapon being effective against all faction and most mission types.

However my biggest grip atm is this... DE some times seens to purposely do the opposite... After seeing some of the passives have meaningless mechanics that feel so random... and seeing some additions encourage the "shear damage output" mentality (Banshee's latest Sound quake Augment), I have to wonder if balance is really a goal in the mind of the developers...

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Duduminador said:

Agree with a lot of what OP says, not all. But certainly agree with the concept that Overpowered should be based on tweaking a frame or weapon into making it effective against a faction or a mission type and not: A frame or weapon being effective against all faction and most mission types.

However my biggest grip atm is this... DE some times seens to purposely do the opposite... After seeing some of the passives have meaningless mechanics that feel so random... and seeing some additions encourage the "shear damage output" mentality (Banshee's latest Sound quake Augment), I have to wonder if balance is really a goal in the mind of the developers...

I think their current direction is ending "press one button to win".  Looks like they are doing this by reworking frames to have more synergy of their powers/abilities.  Take the reworks of Saryn and Mag as examples.  As for the whole balance thing in regards to DE, We won't really have any idea of their direction until the War Within update has been completed.  That and watching Dev Streams to get hints. Everything else is just conjecture by players.  Myself included.   

[Grumpy]

4 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Last I checked playing the damn game to have fun was more important than XP on the fully upgraded weapons and frames you were talking about.

 

I don't know how you translate overpowered to not being able to die when we're talking about weapons. "You can still die" is no excuse because you can still die with any frame, any weapon and any build. The Tonkor doesn't have a magic death prevention shield.

The game is fun, it's very fun.  But based on all the post it seems that people are very unhappy with things the way they are.  I hope DE keeps up the good work, they are doing a outstanding job.

 

And yeah, you're right, tonkor doesn't have a death prevention shield.  But I'm not the one who was complaining about it.  I have no problems at all with any of this. 

[TheBrsrkr]

1 minute ago, Grumpy said:

The game is fun, it's very fun.  But based on all the post it seems that people are very unhappy with things the way they are. 

And why is that? Could it be that they can't have fun with the way things are? Because they can't play?

 

2 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

And yeah, you're right, tonkor doesn't have a death prevention shield.  But I'm not the one who was complaining about it.  I have no problems at all with any of this. 

K.Don't see how this changes anything.

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

I'm actually very satisfied with the game in its current form and I'm MR21. I worked hard to be overpowered a little bit and in Sorties I cannot see that every players is owerpowed because below MR 15 most of them are working very hard to succeed. 

I'm not satisfied with lack of replayable content or the waste of development in Lunaro instead of PvP.

In spite of actual nerfs - or should I say because- Warframe is losing players in the 4th month a row on Steam Charts.

[(PSN)AllEyezOnThee]

1 hour ago, LocoWithGun said:

What you've got there INoctus is a developer suicide.

You've got overhaul that would needs resources on a scale of almost making a new game. You got obsoletion of several systems that players sunk time and real money into (and not ALL of the players dislike current system).

What exactly is the point? That maybe the game might be better after you made the entire playerbase start again from ground up? How the F*** do you transition to that thing? You're painting cloud castles there. You're not even trying to work WITH the current systems, you just throw it all away.

DE has grown since launch and their resources and tech can make these things possible unlike before where the current system was created from limited funds and popularity - it's time to branch out from the obsolete system.

Players would be refunded (mostly for the mods removed) for the changes made so that the time and money put into isn't for naught.

These changes would make any warframe play style or weapon viable without items being just mastery fodder to the meta of the month.

Longevity is the goal of this overhaul, warframes current state will lead to more problems in the future than if it were to rework the foundation for a better experience.

It doesn't have to be all at once, like with U19 - it can be introduced in sections with a transition period in between so players have time to adapt.

[blackheartstar_pc]

On 7/6/2016 at 0:32 PM, Grumpy said:

But based on all the post it seems that people are very unhappy with things the way they are.

That's just a small dedicated group that is upset the game isn't ran or balanced the way they feel it should be. That also dislike seeing anyone having fun with it in it's current state.

Edited July 7, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[TheBrsrkr]

6 hours ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

That's just a small dedicated group that is upset the game isn't ran or balanced the way they feel it should be that dislike seeing anyone having fun with it in it's current state.

Because obviously people who don't agree with you are literally Hitler and hate everyone who's having fun because reasons. Right.

[MagPrime]

6 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Because obviously people who don't agree with you are literally Hitler and hate everyone who's having fun because reasons. Right.

[TheBrsrkr]

2 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

Yay! Birthday hugz!

[MagPrime]

Just now, TheBrsrkr said:

Yay! Birthday hugz!

It's like I knew or something...

[DatDarkOne]

7 hours ago, (PS4)lNoctus said:

DE has grown since launch and their resources and tech can make these things possible unlike before where the current system was created from limited funds and popularity - it's time to branch out from the obsolete system.

Players would be refunded (mostly for the mods removed) for the changes made so that the time and money put into isn't for naught.

These changes would make any warframe play style or weapon viable without items being just mastery fodder to the meta of the month.

Longevity is the goal of this overhaul, warframes current state will lead to more problems in the future than if it were to rework the foundation for a better experience.

It doesn't have to be all at once, like with U19 - it can be introduced in sections with a transition period in between so players have time to adapt.

That would be a coding nightmare to implement.  It would be easier for them to start from scratch almost.  Not disagreeing with you, but just saying it's a easier said than done kind of thing.  

[SolarDwagon]

I feel like much discussed in this thread has already been mentioned as issues by DE.

The problem with bringing the excesses back into check is that people like their excesses as a general rule. People love being able to throw Antimatter Drops like candy. People love being able to walk into a room with a shotgun hanging by their side and melt it clear of enemies. Taking away their toys is just as likely to lose them committed players as keeping the status quo is.

Personally, efficiency and compulsory mods are the biggest bugbears for me. But if efficiency mods get nerfed, -efficiency mods also need to get nerfed. Blind Rage probably needs to have BOTH sides of the equation reduced, since an unopposed BR can literally leave many frames unable to use their 4th and even 3rd abilities. DE have also stated that they acknowledge Serration and Co. as problems but people have weeks, maybe even months of work invested into those mods. Changing them without compensation is going to annoy, potentially drive away, tens, hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of players. Changing them WITH compensation... anyone remember Steel Charge and the Legendary Core fiasco?

Edited July 7, 2016 by SolarDwagon

[Otaiken]

16 hours ago, (PS4)lNoctus said:

DE has grown since launch and their resources and tech can make these things possible unlike before where the current system was created from limited funds and popularity - it's time to branch out from the obsolete system.

Players would be refunded (mostly for the mods removed) for the changes made so that the time and money put into isn't for naught.

These changes would make any warframe play style or weapon viable without items being just mastery fodder to the meta of the month.

Longevity is the goal of this overhaul, warframes current state will lead to more problems in the future than if it were to rework the foundation for a better experience.

It doesn't have to be all at once, like with U19 - it can be introduced in sections with a transition period in between so players have time to adapt.

How long did the current reworks take to implement? And those were less of a jump than your idea.

What you're looking at there is timeline of about 2 years. Everything would need to be touched. And while this happenes the game would run on skeleton crew, also all new content releases would be instantly obsolete and would just mean more work for DE (as they would have to create double systems for each item). So either the content would stop -> game dead or it would further slow down the development (and this is where 2 years start to look generous). And it really doesn't matter whether you cut it into chunks or not.

You've got obscene amount of coding, but not only that you've got animation work as well in there. Just your combo idea across 24 melee types multiplied by how many stances we have. There's a reason why games with deep melee systems don't have 100 melee weapons. Btw that combo idea you ripped straight from Remember Me. It didn't even work well in that game! You built like two OP combos (energy and health refill usually) and spammed them again and again!

To be workable this would have to be cut down SIGNIFICANTLY at which point you get half-assed rework and you'd be the first person complaining on the forums about it when it came out.

And what would players that don't want the game turned on its head do all this time while content grinds to a standstill and they wait for rework they don't want?

Lastly how do you refund them for something that has no equivalent under your new system? Oh gee, I get all my cores back? Well there's nothing to @(*()$ use them on now! That's like someone totalling my car and then offering to pay for my damages with gas.

And there will always be most efficient option, your system won't change that. There's viable and then there's efficient. And A LOT of things under current system might not be efficient but they're viable, people just don't bother to branch out. But that is their prerogative and I shall not attempt to force them by reworking the system under them.

TLD;DR: Don't presume to say this is for my benefit or benefit for the whole playerbase and at least have the respect to meet people in the middle instead of painting cloud castles.

Edited July 7, 2016 by LocoWithGun