Lunaro Feedback [Megathread]

[Pazgabear]

Dunno if it was asked before, but if we could have an option to skip the goal replay, that would be fantastic

Right now, you have to watch that lengthy cutscene showing you how great (or how lame) the goal was, removing control from your character. I feel it really impair the pace of the game, I want to be ready ASAP for the counter-attack, not watch the goal I just witnessed 10 seconds ago, especially when it was my team that got the point, since we have to clear the zone

Edited June 16, 2016 by Pazgabear

[kz3dart]

I play in Lunaro and never again why? : 

- if game split friends they leave game or you just play 5 VS 1 because what? im in different team so i cant pass a ball to my brother ;)

- no bullet jumps with ball??  is like telling rugby players that they cant run when they take ball !! 

For me DE you have to decide what game you try to mimic , the rugby full contact game and you let us bullet jump as hell with ball or you try to make a football so I cant bullet jump but opponents cant kill me with kicks , punch etc but you make some clean take move without fight.

Really standard PVP is better than ths LUNARO experience in my opinion Warframe is the only game that change PVE because PVP part. In all games multiplayer is separate game in which you start with clean no story related avatar but you DE want to mix them together and quoting wise man :

"Most problems are formed from solutions of previous problems"

 

 

[5Diego5]

So Enjoyable!!!!! Big shout out to the sound team!!!! Shivers all over!
 

[Ghogiel]

So game mode could have been ok to decent if the concept is your sort of thing

However it's mostly unplayable. There needs to be way to force hosting a new game and not joining one currently in progress. Yesterday I joined a match that was 0-16, I took one look at score and DC'd. There needs to be way to stop matches being a 2v1 or 3v2. I played a whole game yesterday 2v1 and the 3rd player was curtious to just let it be a 1v1 in the end. The matchmaker shouldn't ever drop an extra player on one side and not the other, it should hold the player in limbo waiting for another one to join the queue before sticking another in the match.

There needs to be a fix for the lag via dedicated servers and HSR or any other fix is rendered moot as the mode will still be a textbook case of unfun. PvP players these days have moved on from dialup from 15 years ago and expect modern technical lag conpensation, and not having a 3 second delay when trying to throw a damn ball.

I think it's better than conclave, but that's not saying much.

 

[MathiasWest]

Yup, me too. I want to play it but the controls are so weird because im used to having them changed in the normal gameplay.

Separate controls would be really nice!

[Espadda]

but why didn't they think of it?

 most ppl do not keep the defaults lol XD

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by b3n0n3

[DeadlyBard676]

my major issue with it is when teammates leave the game early and the isn't temporally paused and the teams auto balanced.

Was just in a game where in the first minute one of my team mates left leaving the game 2v3 and then at the 3 minute mark my second teammate left and the game ended 2-15 with the opposing team at 15.

[DeadlyBard676]

yeah i had this problem myself and i was standing on the respawn point for the ball on my side of the court. it also didn't help that both of my teammates had left and there was no team balancing after he left which made it 1v3.

[Sar.K.Asmus]

- Needs an indicator for teammates when you carry lunaro (Glowing teammates blue for moon and yellow for sun. Specific color pallets for moon and sun team wouldn't solve the problem)

- Perma stun another player is a huge problem (you can be strategic and keep one player as a keeper (i saved 10 times in 4 matches) but one of your opponents can perma stun you that's a problem. That happened in the last match i played)

- Lag is killing this game mode

- One problem for me is that when you bullet jump you lose lunaro. It's a problem because if you want to go to the opponents zone fast you are bullet jumping and when a teammate pass to you in that moment, you always lose that lunaro (i don't know how to solve that because in other game modes is just natural that you use bullet jumping for moving and in lunaro it's actually bad)

Edit:

- Noone should be allowed to stand on the pillars. It's to easy to stand there, wait for a pass and score directly from there.

Edited June 16, 2016 by The-Tective

[Dreyloxion]

This post on reddit contained some information about the controls.

https://m.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4oajum/update_lunaro/

BASIC CONTROLS:

Without ball

• LMB - Melee strike
  • Hitting a player will stagger them and force them to drop the Lunaro if they're carrying it
  • Hit a player enough times in a short period and they will be knocked down ( Hitting the Lunaro will ‘charge’ it for 3 seconds and it will knock down any player it hits
• RMB (hold) - 3m soft vortex that attracts the Lunaro
• E - shoulder charge

With ball

• LMB (tap) - light throw
  • Also used for lock-on pass when you see an arrow Chevron above a teammate’s head
• LMB (hold) - strong throw (twice as powerful as tap LMB)
• E - shoulder charge
• Launching the Lunaro from a slide will curve your shot.
• Bullet jumping will cause you to drop the Lunaro!

In the keybindings those buttons correspond to:

LMB = Melee Channel

RMB = Melee Block

E = Melee Attack

 

So change those key binds to something usable for you.

[Ghogiel]

Are challenges working or is this a bug?

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Am I doing something wrong ? Apparently I needed 4 goals. I got 4 goals, but not completed challenge, why?

 

[Teridax68]

The core game of Lunaro is phenomenal, and when people play with a sportsmanlike attitude it really is an incredible experience. Right now, there are a few implementation issues that end up spoiling the experience, though. My thoughts on this:

• Connection issues are felt hard: While it's acceptable in PVE to have even extreme amounts of lag (e.g. doors failing to open immediately or fully as you pass through them), since there usually isn't that much pressure for pinpoint movement, any small amount of lag in Lunaro feels really bad. I've often gotten checked and had my Lunaro knocked out even after I threw it, my hits and catches haven't connected even when I was clearly in contact with whatever I was aiming for, and there occasionally is a noticeable delay between input, visuals and results.
• Checking is horrible right now, and should be limited only to pushing the Lunaro out of someone's hold: The single biggest "exploit" (or rather, cheap and unsportsmanlike tactic) right now is spam-checking other players. It often degenerates into punching/kicking matches, and the stagger/knockdown feels completely useless for the purposes of the game, if not downright aggravating. The only use I see right now for staggering an opponent is for disrupting a goalie long enough to land a shot, but there should be more elegant ways to resolve that (larger goals, for example, or an impenetrable zone around them, since right now they're too easy to secure on the defender's side, though even then that can be solved by rendering the Lunaro unstable and having it knock them down). I also feel there should be a brief period of checking immunity upon catching the Lunaro, also to prevent spam.
• Team visibility is mediocre: In these fast-paced matches with random players, it's difficult to see at a glance who's on which team. Sometimes there's this blue/orange halo, but often that halo is either too weak or invisible. Team colors need to be more visible and more consistent at all distances.
• The mobility changes were unnecessary: It's difficult to describe the exact extent of the mobility changes, which also affected PVE, and perhaps we might need more time to adjust, but currently they feel restrictive. Coptering feels unpleasantly choppy, double-jumping breaks momentum, and sliding grinds down way too harshly, including in mid-air. All of this just encourages bullet jump spam to the detriment of everything else. I feel these changes should be reverted, and instead Lunaro should have its own mobility changes if needed. Seeing how bullet jumping can already be used to catch up to whoever's holding the Lunaro, base mobility likely doesn't need a nerf. In fact, bullet jumping with the Lunaro in hand should also probably be fine, especially in the mode's current check-heavy environment.
• "Clear the Area" is awkwardly implemented: Right now it's a simple case of jumping out and jumping back in before the defending team can even make a proper pass, and there are apparently often cases of this mechanic bugging out completely and forgetting to disable an attacker's Arcata. The mode should push attackers within the area outside of it while everyone's viewing the replay, and disable every attacker's Arcatas until the Lunaro leaves the defending area, whether or not they were within the area.

With that said, though, DE deserves a massive pat on the back for implementing this game mode. Lunaro's simple and intuitive, easy to enter without having to grind on some other mode beforehand, rewarding even to inexperienced players and, bar the case of spam-checking, great at avoiding frustration in a PVP environment. This is what Conclave should be like, and I'd love to see the other modes completely redone in view of a simple, easily accessible model, free from the complexity of PVE mechanics and their awkward translation to PVP. If that could be achieved, with a tiny of tuning and a more level connection-based playing field Lunaro, and perhaps even the rest of Conclave, could become a proper e-sport, and a success on par with the game's PVE content.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Teridax68
typos

[yameko]

At first, i really thought that this was a fun mode to play, until somebody just keep knock me down even when i wasn't bringing the ball, then i couldn't move an inch.  i think that's a important problem to be solved. Maybe make a new rule about it, 

[Ziegrif]

Movement: Slow and sluggish. Bullet jumping loses the lunaro.

You also seem to drop the ball way too easily.

Experience amount per match: Pitiful. 500 for a win is just bad.

The goal replay is pointless, slows the game down, disorients me and is annoying.

I probably just don't really get this game mode. I am left underwhelmed.

The match should not start without a 3 v 3 set up.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Ziegrif

[-S-O-Yetili]

8 hours ago, -S-O-Yetili said:

Ok I tried Lunaro: Whole Team rage quitted. I was alone vs. 4. Lost 48 - 0 (or something, didnt pay attention anymore) because the other team perma-stuned me with E.

Edit: So I deciced to give it another chance. The whole team left again. I was alone vs. 3 and lost 2 - 9

Worst experience ever. Never again.

^ Old reply earlier today.

Did about 20 rounds and I'm starting to like it. Its a lot of fun with balanced teams.

Some suggestions:

• Checking needs some sort of cooldown. You cant hold the Lunaro for more than 1 second, otherwise you will be checked to death.
• Encourage teamplay: Conclave points for each pass etc. (Currently it is more or less a one man show.)
• The goal should be slightly more oval. Prevents camping in front of the goal slightly.
• The own team should be better highlighted.
• The height of the stadium should be reduced slightly.
• Unbalanced matches:  The round should not begin until at least 2 players are available for each team.

[Ax0r]

The attack speed needs to be reduced or at least spamming should be penaltized. It can get really annoying when some aggressive players starts non-stop bullying a random person even if he doesn't even have the ball. But in general trying to get the ball often ends up peeople grouping up in the corner and mashing attack on eachother.

[Aeromancer]

May I suggest adding a foul play/penalty system to discourage ruthless E spam against players who are not carrying the ball.  Something along the lines of taking away points from the offending players' team after a number of of attacks against noncarriers have been reached within a time period, or allowing the recipient of the ruthless E spam to have an uninterrupted attempt at a free shot similar to basketball if players of the opposing team keep hitting them after knocking them down.

[FrostedMike]

50 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

The core game of Lunaro is phenomenal, and when people play with a sportsmanlike attitude it really is an incredible experience. Right now, there are a few implementation issues that end up spoiling the experience, though. My thoughts on this:

• Connection issues are felt hard: While it's acceptable in PVE to have even extreme amounts of lag (e.g. doors failing to open immediately or fully as you pass through them), since there usually isn't that much pressure for pinpoint movement, any small amount of lag in Lunaro feels really bad. I've often gotten checked and had my Lunaro knocked out even after I threw it, my hits and catches haven't connected even when I was clearly in contact with whatever I was aiming for, and there occasionally is a noticeable delay between input, visuals and results.
• Checking is horrible right now, and should be limited only to pushing the Lunaro out of someone's hold: The single biggest "exploit" (or rather, cheap and unsportsmanlike tactic) right now is spam-checking other players. It often degenerates into punching/kicking matches, and the stagger/knockdown feels completely useless for the purposes of the game, if not downright aggravating. The only use I see right now for staggering an opponent is for disrupting a goalie long enough to land a shot, but there should be more elegant ways to resolve that (larger goals, for example, or an impenetrable zone around them, since right now they're too easy to secure on the defender's side, though even then that can be solved by rendering the Lunaro unstable and having it knock them down). I also feel there should be a brief period of checking immunity upon catching the Lunaro, also to prevent spam.
• Team visibility is mediocre: In these fast-paced matches with random players, it's difficult to see at a glance who's on which team. Sometimes there's this blue/orange halo, but often that halo is either too weak or invisible. Team colors need to be more visible and more consistent at all distances.
• The mobility changes were unnecessary: It's difficult to describe the exact extent of the mobility changes, which also affected PVE, and perhaps we might need more time to adjust, but currently they feel restrictive. Coptering feels unpleasantly choppy, double-jumping breaks momentum, and sliding grinds down way too harshly, including in mid-air. All of this just encourages bullet jump spam to the detriment of everything else. I feel these changes should be reverted, and instead Lunaro should have its own mobility changes if needed. Seeing how bullet jumping can already be used to catch up to whoever's holding the Lunaro, base mobility likely doesn't need a nerf. In fact, bullet jumping with the Lunaro in hand should also probably be fine, especially in the mode's current check-heavy environment.
• "Clear the Area" is awkwardly implemented: Right now it's a simple case of jumping out and jumping back in before the defending team can even make a proper pass, and there are apparently often cases of this mechanic bugging out completely and forgetting to disable an attacker's arcata. The mode should push attackers within the area outside of it while everyone's viewing the replay, and disable every attacker's arcatas until the Lunaro leaves the defending area, whether or not they were within the area.

With that said, though, DE deserves a massive pat on the back for implementing this game mode. Lunaro's simple and untuitive, easy to enter without having to grind on some other mode beforehand, rewarding even to inexperienced players and, bar the case of spam-checking, great at avoiding frustration in a PVP environment. This is what Conclave should be like, and I'd love to see the other modes completely redone in view of a simple, easily accessible model, free from the complexity of PVE mechanics and their awkward translation to PVP. If that could be achieved, with a tiny of tuning and a more level connection-based playing field Lunaro, and perhaps even the rest of Conclave, could become a proper e-sport, and a success on par with the game's PVE content.

I had a few more matchs and had these problems too.
I'll edit and add these to my list.

[niconosave]

so I have been playing some 1v1 lunaros because I could not find players that didnt super lag. I have to say this looks pretty good. but like any boardgame you need more than one player to have fun (or two). if the players dont learn to stop running behind the ball I can see this game dying. btw this game looks a lot like soccer, little kids playing soccer do the same thing. they all run behind the ball.

there are many that dont like the speed, I would like it to be even slower, because it is so hard to keep track of the ball, and other players. give the players a bright color that contrasts with the dark background, insted of making them dark gold.

you can quickly run from one end of the court to the other so when you have the ball you are automatically in danger. in soccer(or any other sport) you can see the other player aproaching. here they almost teleport to you location.

also there is a reason why the goal of soccer is so big that one person cant reach all of it. so that they cant just bunch up at the goal and stop the ball from ever getting in.

the passing mechanic is really fun I just wish other players would cooperate. I would recommend that the machmaking for lunaro is changed to resemble the one in league of legends, it is difficult to have teamwork when someone can enter and leave so easy. when you have no time to chat and have a discussion. in league you get some down time when it is ok to stop playing to chat. 

[Nijyumensou]

5 hours ago, CommanderSpawn said:

I was playing Lunaro and got into a 1v1 match. I didn't manage to get into a match with more players.

Here is my feedback:

- Check.
People still seems to stuck on PVP rather than sport. The guy I was playing with was focusing on attacking me and ignore the lunaro most of the time in order to knock me down and then have a free way and an easy goal. Dirty gameplay. I think that reducing the attack speed or having a rule that disable the arcata for a few seconds after knocking down will probably fix it.

- Out of the zone rule.
1. There seems to be an issue that the team that scored the goal still have their arcata enabled or that they can just go out of the zone and back inside like there is no such rule. They guy I was playing with just went out after each goal and back in before the lunaro even touched the ground when it respwned and scored another point. Dirty gameplay that takes all the fun away.
I think there should be a rule that says that the lunaro must get out of the zone first so the other team will be able to take the lunaro again, like the rule in basketball that don't allow the defensive team go pass the mid-line as long as the ball is still in the other team's area.
2. In addition to the above, a player in the offensive team can stand right where the lunaro respawn and take the lunaro without even wanting it. There should be something that prevent players to start there.

- Check again the rule that drops the lunaro when bullet-jump. Players seems to get too high up sometimes when they carry the lunaro. It might be lag tho.

I believed you related this to soccer but it is a model relatively closer to a rugby gameplay. If you remove tackling, it is just game where 3 player(since they have no ball,they can't be tackle?)just build a wall around the one with the ball so that the guy can aim and shoot? 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Nijyumensou

[FrostedMike]

5 minutes ago, Nijyumensou said:

I believed you related this to soccer but it is model relatively closer to a rugby gameplay. If you remove tackling, it is just game where 3 player(since they have no ball,they can't be tackle?)just build a wall around the one with the ball so that the guy can aim and shoot? 

The problem is that it happens in 1v1 matches as well. People just fight you instead of grabbing the ball so they will have all the time in the world to get a point.

It's not like the team is tackling in order to protect their team mate with the lunaro or to get it from the opponents, they tackle in order to nullify everyone and have their free way to get a point, even if one of them already have the lunaro. You can see them ignoring everything and only attacking you.

[Nijyumensou]

Unlike the above post, I believed this is much closer to a rugby style model ( notice the Tackle[melee] and the usage of hand to control the ball). I want to point out that having cooldown for melee isn't gonna ruin any flow of the game outcome.why do I say that? Think about it, he can dodge your melee( if the game is smooth, it isn't hard to do) and you have a 2~3 sec cooldown in a high speed ball movement game where it take 0.5 sec for the ball can reach one end to another,will it work? 

[Teridax68]

15 minutes ago, Nijyumensou said:

I believed you related this to soccer but it is model relatively closer to a rugby gameplay. If you remove tackling, it is just game where 3 player(since they have no ball,they can't be tackle?)just build a wall around the one with the ball so that the guy can aim and shoot? 

The main difference between tackling in Lunaro and rugby is that in Lunaro you can "tackle" anyone regardless of whether or not they have the ball, which makes a world of difference. The reason tackling is restricted to the ball carrier in rugby is because the sole purpose of tackling is to prevent players from simply running to each other's goals and scoring free tries. In Lunaro, tackling technically serves a purpose in disrupting a goalkeeping player, but right now it is seriously abused in very inappropriate situations (i.e. going full team deathmatch and focusing on knocking down as many opponents as possible instead of going for the Lunaro), on top of not being particularly fun or useful on its own.

[ImGerik]

All the yes to you CommanderSpawn. Mobility and visibility are the most frustrating issues right now. 

We need chevrons that point to our teammates at all times. Or at least some kind of color coding so that we know who is friend or foe.

As a person that spams bullet jumps to move faster, dropping the ball when bullet jumping feels horrible. And as you said, everything feels slow and clunky. I think more slide in air would make for great plays. And faster sprint speed would feel like you are getting somewhere without spamming bullet jump roll.

 

Edit:  I retract my opinion and bring a new one.

The movement is actually just fine. If it were faster, it would be way too hectic. Right now it requires a bit of skill to move faster than usual. Only thing I want now is more poles and floating objects on the playing field for more midair play.

Edited June 18, 2016 by ImGerik

[Cryowynd]

Loving the gameplay so far, and the fact that there will be no mods for it makes it sweeter. Matchmaking is still an issue though, and could we possibly add teammate markers, or maybe a minimap? Plus it's sometimes hard to tell if you are the one in possession among the chaos.