Movement Post-Update: Lunaro

[hammerheathen]

8 hours ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

DE like-"Hey players, check out our new parcour system, isn't it awesome!? It has a flow and momentum and such stuff, it allow you to move around freely. Oh but one moment-we will nerf it to the ground after a year or so, for sake of our new PvP gamemod that no1 gonna plays anyways, coz we know that nerfing PvE part of the game for sake of PvP is a smart thing to do, we hope you understand us"

Players like-"What da hek..."

To be fair, Lunaro is pretty fun and actually got me into pvp (hint: I LOATHE pvp in pve games, the only pvp I sorta play is Planetside2)

That said, it has never ceased to disgust me how we are told pvp won't affect the greater game, then we get special mods attainable there (that work in pve and solve some pve problems....).... and now possibly this. Be honest, don't lie DE (we will remember). We know coding things separately can be a pain in the butt.

Edited June 16, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed profanity

[SquidTheSid]

Well, I'd go so far as to say that this literally ruins the game for me. Like seriously, what was DE thinking? Parkour 2.0 was one of the few things in this game that actually required skill, and now that's gone (and yet again, the skill ceiling in Warframe has been lowered). 

 

Parkour 2.0 was one of the only things keeping me playing Warframe, and now that's gone. I really hope DE reverts this "fix" since it was unneeded and unwanted. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by SquidTheSid

[Nitresco]

Movement feels incredibly sluggish to me now. Both inside Lunaro and out.

Feels like we somehow get slower and slower with each update.

[Thaumatos]

DE should have squashed this immediately...they didn't.  They pulled the same stunt with coptering; left it in WAY too long and people felt entitled.  

Moral of the story?  Fix bugs early.  Especially ones you know will be hot-button issues later.  There's no way they didn't know this bug existed since the genesis of Parkour 2.0

On the PvP issue, this is clearly not a PvP change.  This is a bug fix that they should have done a LONG time ago.  Just like coptering.  And like coptering, they may just unfix the bug for the whiners...which will cause them to require a fix later when they wish to add something else to Warframe...with even more salt than right now.

[SquidTheSid]

3 minutes ago, Thaumatos said:

DE should have squashed this immediately...they didn't.  They pulled the same stunt with coptering; left it in WAY too long and people felt entitled.  

Moral of the story?  Fix bugs early.  Especially ones you know will be hot-button issues later.  There's no way they didn't know this bug existed since the genesis of Parkour 2.0

On the PvP issue, this is clearly not a PvP change.  This is a bug fix that they should have done a LONG time ago.  Just like coptering.  And like coptering, they may just unfix the bug for the whiners...which will cause them to require a fix later when they wish to add something else to Warframe...with even more salt than right now.

This "bug" shouldn't have ever been fixed. It added genuine skill to the game and rewarded players that knew how to use parkour 2.0. Most importantly, it made the game a lot more fun. 

 

If DE buffed movement speeds, added in alternative options, or anything to compensate for this, I wouldn't be as salty, but as it stands ,the game feels that much more sluggish and unenjoyable. 

[Kracken]

Just now, SquidTheSid said:

This "bug" shouldn't have ever been fixed. It added genuine skill to the game and rewarded players that knew how to use parkour 2.0. Most importantly, it made the game a lot more fun. 

 

If DE buffed movement speeds, added in alternative options, or anything to compensate for this, I wouldn't be as salty, but as it stands ,the game feels that much more sluggish and unenjoyable. 

it was a bug giving advantage to rifles and pistols while not giving anything for melee 

[Praxxor]

I just hope that it was NOT intentional

WE ARE SPACE NINJAS NAH?

[Praxxor]

3 minutes ago, Kracken said:

it was a bug giving advantage to rifles and pistols while not giving anything for melee 

Wait

It brings you closer to melee range, how does it not do anything for melee?

[NinthAria]

I'm really starting to wonder how fast "fast" needs to be to satisfy people who find Warframe's movement pacing to be sluggish.

[Thaumatos]

Just now, SquidTheSid said:

This "bug" shouldn't have ever been fixed. It added genuine skill to the game and rewarded players that knew how to use parkour 2.0. Most importantly, it made the game a lot more fun. 

 

If DE buffed movement speeds, added in alternative options, or anything to compensate for this, I wouldn't be as salty, but as it stands ,the game feels that much more sluggish and unenjoyable. 

People said the same thing about coptering.  "Don't fix the bug because I like it."  DE should always fix bugs...but then rebuild the game based on what people exploited the bug for.  As you said, more options.

Things feel slow.  But why?  Is it because you're required to move great distances to get remedial tasks completed?  Is it because the game moves way too much around the player and s/he's trying to keep up?  Or can it be you just would rather play a racing game than a 3rd person shooter?

Meaningful feedback is key here.  I believe the movement system is in need of tweaking as well...but not to the point that I refuse to play because it isn't F-Zero.

[Kracken]

Just now, Praxxor said:

Wait

It brings you closer to melee range, how does it not do anything for melee?

you gained momentum while holding rifle/pistol, and not with melee. 

additionally it was fixed on PvP quite fast since it was breaking the competition

[Thaumatos]

1 minute ago, Kracken said:

you gained momentum while holding rifle/pistol, and not with melee. 

additionally it was fixed on PvP quite fast since it was breaking the competition

I've done the same maneuver many times with only melee equipped.

As a matter of fact...most of the time I'm playing with melee these days.  Guns haven't been aim-oriented for a long time...they just keep getting more spam-heavy.

I don't know about you guys but aiming is part of the fun for me.  If I don't have to aim, it becomes nearly the same thing as spraying randomly with MS Paint.

[Nitresco]

6 minutes ago, Kracken said:

you gained momentum while holding rifle/pistol, and not with melee. 

additionally it was fixed on PvP quite fast since it was breaking the competition

As far as I could tell, the effects of flipchaining (stacking of roll + double jump momentum over longer distances) never diminished based on what weapon you had equipped. One could even air melee in many cases to alter momentum and deal damage to agile opponents.

Being "fixed" in PvP is one thing. Messing with PvE movement is another.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Nitresco

[Finances]

21 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

I'm really starting to wonder how fast "fast" needs to be to satisfy people who find Warframe's movement pacing to be sluggish.

The main issue here is a system was in place that was actually intuitive to use and aided in the overall progression of a mission. Bugs for the most part should be seen as something that isn't intended but just because something is unintended doesn't mean its wrong. A lot of the advancements we have to general things happened because of "bugs" or unintended results. It's really the ability of development to actually discern it as a feature. 

Again, as of now most of us are just hoping that it is indeed a bug, but the complaints towards this are not without merit. It's sorta like buying a car because it goes a certain speed you like and its been going that speed all this time, but suddenly the manufacturer of the car says it wasn't actually meant to go that fast and they change your engine while you're sleeping to go slower or the "intended," speed. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by Finances

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

2 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Stop with the PvP hate. There are people that enjoy playing PvP a lot. Just because you always like to play total easy mode PvE doesn't mean no one likes to PvP.

Stop belittling the PvE community. People want different experiences, if you want to act all high and mighty because you play the "harder" [laughs internally] game mode then do it in private. The man was just stating his preferences. 

This guy makes a valid point, 90% of warframe's mechanics do not fit in a competitive pvp environment. Other than gunplay and movement which is easily compatible, the rest of the mechanics are designed with a PVE mindset. Even if you dial them down substantially, it still is flawed by design. As a former pvp player since u10 I completely agree with @superbot34 and his points are just as vaild regardless of what side of the spectrum he lies on.

Im fed up of people pointing out valid criticisms on conclave and its current state. Suggestions getting shot down by "git gud (the nice version)" and "you just don't understand us". That mentality will not allow conclave to evolve.

[(PSN)bonateIIo]

I might not understand the topic completely, but did they remove the only thing that made Ivaras prowl bearable?

[Thaumatos]

4 minutes ago, Eureka.seveN said:

Stop belittling the PvE community. People want different experiences, if you want to act all high and mighty because you play the "harder" [laughs internally] game mode then do it in private. The man was just stating his preferences. 

This guy makes a valid point, 90% of warframe's mechanics do not fit in a competitive pvp environment. Other than gunplay and movement which is easily compatible, the rest of the mechanics are designed with a PVE mindset. Even if you dial them down substantially, it still is flawed by design. As a former pvp player since u10 I completely agree with @superbot34 and his points are just as vaild regardless of what side of the spectrum he lies on.

Im fed up of people pointing out valid criticisms on conclave and its current state. Suggestions getting shot down by "git gud (the nice version)" and "you just don't understand us". That mentality will not allow conclave to evolve.

Well for one, this game's PvE is total easymode.  Not saying PvP is any better, but there are other games that are way more skill-involved that are still not PvP.

Secondly, PvP is hardly under fire here.  I don't know why people that play games specifically for PvP are even playing Warframe, but to each his own I guess... Whatever his problem is, he doesn't seem as hostile as people on the PvE side when they find an exploit they love is removed.  That's when there's salt enough to make the oceans turn freshwater.

My personal opinion, they chose wrong when they chose to separate skills and try to make a 'balanced' PvP.  That never had any place in WF and it still doesn't.  Prime example: Lunaro.  The only reason it exists is because traditional PvP has no place in this game.

[Radjehuty]

Yeah same here. I feel so heavy and slow even with a Zephyr. I had no idea that timing parkour movements perfectly was a problem. I thought it was just getting good at the game. Feels so much less fluid now. What a shame. Hopefully DE will do something about this.

[Thaumatos]

18 minutes ago, Finances said:

It's sorta like buying a car because it goes a certain speed you like and its been going that speed all this time, but suddenly the manufacturer of the car says it wasn't actually meant to go that fast and they change your engine while you're sleeping to go slower or the "intended," speed. 

Not really...Its more like buying a car because of the features that were listed, finding an unintended feature, using it for a long period of time, and then having the manufacturer recall the car and remove the feature that they knew was there in the first place.

They should have never put it on the production line as-is.

[Finances]

2 minutes ago, Thaumatos said:

Not really...Its more like buying a car because of the features that were listed, finding an unintended feature, using it for a long period of time, and then having the manufacturer recall the car and remove the feature that they knew was there in the first place.

They should have never put it on the production line as-is.

Which is what I'm saying, putting it on the production line while knowing it was there to begin with makes it a feature. Maybe not for them, but that's what they made it when they allowed it to be shipped and used as is, especially after all this time. 

[Thaumatos]

Just now, Finances said:

Which is what I'm saying, putting it on the production line while knowing it was there to begin with makes it a feature. Maybe not for them, but that's what they made it when they allowed it to be shipped and used as is, especially after all this time. 

Well just because you make something with known defects doesn't mean they're intended.  Even if the defect works in your favor.

My point is that they took way too long to fix something that they knew would twist the arm of many players.  And they still don't have any planned tweaks for movement (at least none they're telling us about).

Their reasoning escapes me, honestly.  I guess they were trying to dissolve salt from removing the copter bug?  I think in the morning (U.S./Canada morning) this will be much, much worse.  All I can say for sure is that it will be on the devstream!

 

And with that I bid you all goodnight!

[Finances]

5 minutes ago, Thaumatos said:

Well just because you make something with known defects doesn't mean they're intended.  Even if the defect works in your favor.

My point is that they took way too long to fix something that they knew would twist the arm of many players.  And they still don't have any planned tweaks for movement (at least none they're telling us about).

Their reasoning escapes me, honestly.  I guess they were trying to dissolve salt from removing the copter bug?  I think in the morning (U.S./Canada morning) this will be much, much worse.  All I can say for sure is that it will be on the devstream!

 

And with that I bid you all goodnight!

Yeah I understand what you're saying, I'm simply stating when you ship something with intent containing your unintended it is deemed intended by those who do not know of your original intent.

This fall out will indeed be worse in the coming hours and it is a shame this will overshadow the new content being presented, unless of course it is a bug that will be reverted. Only an official response to this matter/time will tell. Have a pleasant night as well though!

Edited June 16, 2016 by Finances

[Sold0ut]

Thiiis is pretty bad.

 

And it was done exclusively for Lunaro too. In Conclave, this maneuver was fine this entire time - you never were immortal during it.

 

Now suddenly for the sake of Lunaro the ENTIRE game's mobility got nerfed under the guise of a 'bugfix' after it has been core gameplay for years? Oh boy.

[Nudelsupp3]

Honestly, movement is not so much worse as all those butthurt people make it out to be. BUT I cant see the reasoning behind the changes....yes the gained velocity was kinda strange and probably some bug, but it was fun and not detrimental to the gameplay or other players....so why in the world would you fix this then? Last time I played some years ago, there wasnt even a bullet jump mechanic and since I like playing slow frames, it was a help and also fun mechanic to accelerate this way and keep up with other, faster players.

I would sign a petition to bring the "speed bug" back :-(

[Kappatalist]

Y'know, every time I begin to feel like Warframe is in a good state, DE takes it and rips some part of its soul out. It happened with Update 14, it happened whenever they first introduced Movement 2.0, and it's happening now with this stupid little change.

For having made a game all about space NINJAS, they seem to genuinely hate letting us go anywhere fast. I hated Movement 2.0 on launch, but upon coming back to the game recently I found that the revisions they had made to it made it fairly workable. Granted, it was still not much better than what we had prior (other than the fact that it granted more dimensional freedom - a little too much, honestly), but prior to this update, it was workable. I'll also go ahead and admit: as much as my nostalgia goggles want to praise coptering, it was a buggy, inconsistent mess of a technique. This precisely-timed double jump momentum flinging thing we had before today? That was not a bug. That was an effing feature.

Now, there was absolutely no condition or reason which prompted them to remove the one feature which let us go remotely fast in this monotonous, floaty-azz movement system, so I am left to interpret this feature removal as nothing other than ill will towards the players. You could argue that it was to make Lunaro run at a more reasonable, controllable pace, and I have no problem with that - in fact, most of today since Lunaro came out was spent playing Conclave, so I assumed it was just a Conclave thing. Oh, how wrong I was.

The worst part, too, is that as was the case with every other cool thing that DE's stripped from Warframe, they're likely far too prideful to ever revert this change. Worse yet, actually, it only begs the question what's next on the cutting board to make us even slower. I'm going to ponder a guess that the next thing to bite the dust is the ability to slide to cancel your landing lag. I'm calling it now.

I was already sick of DE twisting our arms to the breaking point from all the other times they've pulled this crap. I'm no less sick of it now. I hope this topic makes it onto the upcoming Devstream. I was going to make my own thread about it, but I figured it'd be more productive to push this existing one closer to critical mass.