Damage 3.0

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Could some1 tell me when or where exactly DE stuff confirmed that the base damage mods will be removed due to Damage 3.0? Many thx

[Calwon5]

Soon

[(PSN)Onder6099]

15 minutes ago, Calwon5 said:

Soon

Dude u forgot TM.

So we don ´t know yet if the mods will be removed and stats will be added to weapons?

I find myself this pbb not belongs to this forum, if i ´m right move it, plz, to the proper section, thx

[Darkwave1098]

No one knows for certain, only thing I can guarantee is that it's not even around the block due to Primed Pressure Point.

[Klavinmour]

I doubt they will anymore since they just released the Primed damage mod for Melee.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, Klavinmour said:

I doubt they will anymore since they just released the Primed damage mod for Melee.

Which was apparently not meant to happen.

Edited June 19, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Alma_Elma]

Do we even need a Damage 3.0 update? Enemies and weapons need to be re-balanced, sure. But the current system is fine as is. Do we have to re-write the book again?

Edited June 19, 2016 by Alma_Elma

[(PSN)Onder6099]

19 minutes ago, Darkwave1098 said:

No one knows for certain, only thing I can guarantee is that it's not even around the block due to Primed Pressure Point.

I know about the PPP block, but this question will be pbb disapear there, so i asked extra. Just wondered how many players talking about remove like it was confirmed and it is, lets say,  mainstream of Damage 3.0

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

5 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Which was apparently not meant to happen.

Well there will be a problem once the base mods gets removed. Everyone will have to forma out the r that everyone forma'd in for the base mods & now primed pressure point. Thats my only concern if this is still on the table

[Stoner]

[Fatfunker]

I thought I heard them say it might be U20 or U20.5. but I'm not sure so don't quote me on that.

[Xekrin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Could some1 tell me when or where exactly DE stuff confirmed that the base damage mods will be removed due to Damage 3.0? Many thx

There is no concrete date or even if it will happen, only conjecture based on conversations held on devstreams.  When its near that time, they'll let us know and we will hear about it on forums and devstreams certainly.

41 minutes ago, Alma_Elma said:

Do we even need a Damage 3.0 update? Enemies and weapons need to be re-balanced, sure. But the current system is fine as is. Do we have to re-write the book again?

Hells yes, we do.  The point it is that they will integrate staple mods (multishot, base damage mods such as serration, pressure point) into the weapon itself.  This will allow the weapon to start off low and grow in damage and ability as you level it up.  This gives us more space to make custom builds that don't immediately have 1 to 3 mod spots already taken as a matter of necessity.

At least, this is the theory on the subject.  It hasn't been discussed officially in quite some time and will definitely not happen until August at the very earliest I'd imagine.

47 minutes ago, Klavinmour said:

I doubt they will anymore since they just released the Primed damage mod for Melee.

Never say never in warframe, that is like their motto, and was just mentioned on the devstream yesterday.  We have Primed pressure point, yes, but since any changes to damage structure is months away, we are free to use it until then.  Same with every other mod that is likely to be made obsolete/removed when they do, in fact, get into the new system.

Well there will be a problem once the base mods gets removed. Everyone will have to forma out the r that everyone forma'd in for the base mods & now primed pressure point. Thats my only concern if this is still on the table

Really? Because there are so few madurai mods that wouldn't benefit from having their costs halved?  Of course with stance mods increasing our mod capacity few people rarely have to forma their melee weapons more than once or twice, but it certainly isn't going to 'hurt' a build.

Unless of course they completely reorganize all polarities (Vazarin "D" mods are very lonely), but if such a thing happened, I imagine they will compensate such a drastic change anyway.  I wouldn't worry, especially when its months away. 

Edited June 19, 2016 by Xekrin

[taiiat]

40 minutes ago, Alma_Elma said:

But the current system is fine as is.

Armor Ignore exists (and not with severe restrictions to availability) so no, it is not fine as it is.
having an Armor System, but then being able to circumvent it completely, is a design failure that lots of games have made the mistake of doing. yet it keeps happening. in the age of the internet, other games should... really be taken advantage of as the free research that they are.

among some other stuff like Status Effects doing nothing to some Enemies.

[-Kryptyk-]

it was mentioned briefly in one or two of the recent dev streams.  definitely going to be getting rid of base damage mods, and last I knew, they were rethinking how multishot worked as well.  Definitely not coming in u19... most likely u20

 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Wow, i didn ´t expecteted how this topic grows. I just expected 2 oposite answer: 1. No DE didn ´t confirmed yet or 2. Some1 from DE stuff, pbb Steve, confirmed at Devstream XY that they remove BD mods, just make a question about removing BD clear, because i ´m sure i didn ´t missed this info, thx @AM-Bunny and his Devstream overwies, while most of players speaking about it like it is solid rock true. Imho release of PPP is proof that BD mods will not be removed.

Edit: Sorry for bad inglish

Edited June 19, 2016 by (PS4)Onder6099

[AdunSaveMe]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

Well there will be a problem once the base mods gets removed. Everyone will have to forma out the r that everyone forma'd in for the base mods & now primed pressure point. Thats my only concern if this is still on the table

I sincerely doubt they haven't considered things like this. Expect compensation.

[AdunSaveMe]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Wow, i didn ´t expecteted how this topic grows. I just expected 2 oposite answer: 1. No DE didn ´t confirmed yet or 2. Some1 from DE stuff, pbb Steve, confirmed at Devstream XY that they remove BD mods, just make a question about removing BD clear, because i ´m sure i didn ´t missed this info, thx @AM-Bunny and his Devstream overwies, while most of players speaking about it like it is solid rock true. Imho release of PPP is proof that BD mods will not be removed.

Edit: Sorry for bad inglish

I don't have an exact source, but removing the mods is the most likely scenario if they stick to their initial plans.

Primed pressure point was not supposed to be released. As such, it shouldn't be taken into account.

[Alma_Elma]

40 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Hells yes, we do.  The point it is that they will integrate staple mods (multishot, base damage mods such as serration, pressure point) into the weapon itself.  This will allow the weapon to start off low and grow in damage and ability as you level it up.  This gives us more space to make custom builds that don't immediately have 1 to 3 mod spots already taken as a matter of necessity.

At least, this is the theory on the subject.  It hasn't been discussed officially in quite some time and will definitely not happen until August at the very earliest I'd imagine.

But the reason for multishot and base damage mods becoming stable is because DPS has to be optimized to counter the ungodly scaling the game currently posseses. It takes too many rounds to drop one single enemy so people's solution was to get as many high-powered bullets to shoot out of a gun as fast as possible. Hence, the mandatory build.

By just fixing enemy scaling and stats, they can rebalance the mod/weapon systems to allow for more versatile builds without having to change the entire system and subjecting everyone to another painful season of being the guinea pig.

47 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Armor Ignore exists (and not with severe restrictions to availability) so no, it is not fine as it is.
having an Armor System, but then being able to circumvent it completely, is a design failure that lots of games have made the mistake of doing. yet it keeps happening. in the age of the internet, other games should... really be taken advantage of as the free research that they are.

among some other stuff like Status Effects doing nothing to some Enemies.

Which can be fixed by just tweaking armor scaling so Corrosive Projection doesn't need to be a thing.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

27 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I don't have an exact source, but removing the mods is the most likely scenario if they stick to their initial plans.

Primed pressure point was not supposed to be released. As such, it shouldn't be taken into account.

Tbh, most likely scenario for who? Pbb for us, its most like our inner wish, I just try to prevent us against disapointment and angry posts when that will not happen

Hmmm, PPP release, wasn ´t the reason why Scott was against, to leave us in the mist?

[Xekrin]

49 minutes ago, Alma_Elma said:

But the reason for multishot and base damage mods becoming stable is because DPS has to be optimized to counter the ungodly scaling the game currently posseses.

Other than weird status builds designed around Saryn's spores, do you honestly believe anyone is going to give up damage over versatility or utility?  Even if enemy scaling was perfectly "balanced" people would still build for the most powerful weapon and try desperately to cram in one maybe two mods for QoL without giving up too much.  

This has been proven very recently with bloodrush/body count, mods which most people argue should be inherit to melee weapons in general, or at the very least in certain weapon types (give daggers some damn love DE), its a rare build indeed for a melee weapon to not have those two mods in it now.  

It isn't really about forcing us to make dps stretch to match scaling enemies, its about feeling OP, something which DE has said they think works for us.  We should feel like overpowered killing machines.  A rework of the damage system won't change that, nor will fixing scaling to a level that soothes the majority of players.

I put balance in quotes because it is such a subjective concept.  No matter what they do or fix or change, there will always be someone who is unhappy with it.  Now if they (the developers) believe it better to build damage increase and multishot capabilities directly into a weapon, I am all for it.  I see no downside to it at all to constantly reimagine how things function.

But this is all merely my opinion, I hold no claim over it being factual in the least.  We'll see what happens together!

[taiiat]

10 hours ago, Alma_Elma said:

But the reason for multishot and base damage mods becoming stable is because DPS has to be optimized to counter the ungodly scaling the game currently posseses.
By just fixing enemy scaling and stats, they can rebalance the mod/weapon systems to allow for more versatile builds without having to change the entire system and subjecting everyone to another painful season of being the guinea pig.

no, the problem is not how much Damage Kills the Enemies (because 'infinite' Scaling, it's infinite Damage) - your Weapon is objectively superior with those Mods, so they get used. because it's more Ammunition Efficient, more effective, more reliable, more EVERYTHINIG you could possibly say, when you use Mods that way.

it has nothing to do with the Enemies. Players would still be doing it even if Enemies had 1/10 of the Effective Health they have now.
it's done because it's objectively the most effective way.

 

there's no point in adding an Ammunition Efficiency (or management) Mod, when you could instead double, triple, quadruple, quintuple, Et Cetera your Damage.
because going from your basic Weapon to fully Modded - you can increase the Damage of your Weapon by 50-110x. 100 times the Damage.
meanwhile, you can make your Magazine have like, 30% more shots. or reload 20% faster. or be better able to recover Ammunition against Enemies with a lot of Health.
or - you could double or triple the Damage of your Weapon, again. which doubles or triples Ammunition efficiency, and makes you need to shoot less, which means you reload less often.

adding a zero to the end of your Damage does everything at once.

10 hours ago, Alma_Elma said:

Which can be fixed by just tweaking armor scaling so Corrosive Projection doesn't need to be a thing.

no, the only way to fix it is to NOT HAVE ARMOR IGNORE.
it blows up the entire Damage system. it's what the entire system was rebuilt from the ground up to do, get rid of Armor Ignore. and we just got it back all over again.