Why shouldn't this game be pay to win ?

[AurumandArgentum]

Just now, Futurehero said:

I don't disagree with that post, but the feedback threads are filled with people wanting old Mirage and Trinity back .So overall, what does the WF community say?

This is what the WF community says

Quote

 

See that? Replace it with "Pls Balance?? NO NERF!! ONLY BUFF!!"

 

[Futurehero]

1 minute ago, Souldend78 said:

Ding Ding Ding!!!!

Pointing at the Noggle, where did the other Tenno touched you?

So let me take a wild guess here, correct me if I'm wrong PLEASE.

Is it safe to assume you or a friend just returned to game to find how much you still need to work on in order to be of any assistance on a mission, and the best thing you could think of was "My wallet is full, we should be able to buy our way to greatness".

 

No, but if that were true, why would that be such a problem though?

I can already buy the full set for a prime weapon, pay to rush-build it, pay for every mod to upgrade it, pay for the fusion cores to do it, and pay for a booster to let me level it in a short time. 

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

I don't disagree with that post, but the feedback threads are filled with people wanting old Mirage and Trinity back .So overall, what does the WF community say?

That old Mirage and old Trin were fun to play and people want to play them because they were fun to play and they like to play things that are fun to play.

What you're suggesting is the opposite: boring and pointless, and very bad for the game and community.

[Cray]

Just now, Futurehero said:

No, but if that were true, why would that be such a problem though?

I can already buy the full set for a prime weapon, pay to rush-build it, pay for every mod to upgrade it, pay for the fusion cores to do it, and pay for a booster to let me level it in a short time. 

Because you don't have to pay for any of that.

[Soulden]

8 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

No, but if that were true, why would that be such a problem though?

I can already buy the full set for a prime weapon, pay to rush-build it, pay for every mod to upgrade it, pay for the fusion cores to do it, and pay for a booster to let me level it in a short time. 

You could, but thats the point, you want as little effort as possible, thats why you are trying to play ball while only vouching for finished and optimized weapons.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Souldend78

[Bleak-Knight]

1 minute ago, Futurehero said:

No, but if that were true, why would that be such a problem though?

I can already buy the full set for a prime weapon, pay to rush-build it, pay for every mod to upgrade it, pay for the fusion cores to do it, and pay for a booster to let me level it in a short time. 

You buy boosters? I don't think you know what Draco is...

[Mcl_Blue]

4 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

I don't disagree with that post, but the feedback threads are filled with people wanting old Mirage and Trinity back .So overall, what does the WF community say?

That they want godmode back. But just because spoiled brats want to be invincible, doesn't mean we should make them invincible. The solution is not to put godmode behind a paywall, like you suggest it is. The solution is to not have godmode at all.

[Genitive]

1 minute ago, Futurehero said:

 

I can already buy the full set for a prime weapon, pay to rush-build it, pay for every mod to upgrade it, pay for the fusion cores to do it, and pay for a booster to let me level it in a short time. 

Good for you. I can do all this stuff without paying, although it will take me longer. Oh, and I will have fun playing the game as well. 

[Soulden]

2 minutes ago, Bleak-Knight said:

You buy boosters? I don't think you know what Draco is...

Thats the thing, he wants to entirely bypass any effort beside loading his wallet into the game.

Next thread will be:

"Why can't I buy my Mastery Rank?"

Edited June 19, 2016 by Souldend78

[Cray]

1 minute ago, Lord_Azrael said:

That old Mirage and old Trin were fun to play and people want to play them because they were fun to play and they like to play things that are fun to play.

What you're suggesting is the opposite: boring and pointless, and very bad for the game and community.

More accurately, they countered some serious enemy cheese.

[Bleak-Knight]

Just now, Genitive said:

Good for you. I can do all this stuff without paying, although it will take me longer. Oh, and I will have fun playing the game as well. 

Exactly. Why buy everything straight from the market pre-built and everything's? Where is the fun in that? This is GrindFrame!

[Letter13]

I'll expand upon the reason why it's bad:

• It creates a rift between non-paying and paying players, and can be a source of discrimination and disrespectful behavior between the two groups
• It prevents non-paying players from ever being able to achieve the same feats or level of power as paying players
• It prevents non-paying players from being able to obtain gear or items which affect their ability/performance in game
• It locks out non-paying players from content (Can you imagine if Update 19 required players to pay to be able to access U19 content, quests and game modes?)
• It makes the developers look greedy as hek (DE has been very good about not turning their game into something that PWE/Nexon puts out)

 

There are plenty of reasons why making the game Pay 2 Win is a very bad move. At the same time, DE has shown through their success that the benefits of leaving the game Free to Play (with a Pay for Convenience) system far outweighs the negative stigma that are associated with Pay 2 Win titles.

A counter argument would be "Why should this game remain as Free to Play?", and the answer would be "Because it works really well as it is." If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Making the game Pay 2 Win would make it objectively worse than it is now.

[YuriPlisetsky]

50 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

So, what if DE decided to release Sentient guns that deal 5k damage per hit and are full auto, and can only be bought for 300 platinum ? Would that really be a problem ?

-This game is Co-op. You're not going against someone who is paying for better gear, in fact, them being in your party is only a benefit.

-You can trade a lot of things for platinum, so at the end of the day, platinum just becomes another thing you can grind for.

-In fact, a lot of veterans are probably sitting on buckets of the stuff, earned JUST by trading.

-This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem .

-Whoever thinks those weapons are too much, can simply not use them. This same thing is said about things like the Tonkor, or Ember. So why would this be different.

-Since not everyone can afford a 300 platinum gun, you probably won't see everyone in Pub plays with this .

-People finally have an option to easily finish raids.

-"Trivializing content" is not a thing . People have been trivializing content for years and it's still  being played just as well.

-Players would still have incentives to make other guns ,the same way people are still crafting things like the twin Basolk when Broken War is given to you for free.

 

Honestly, except the knee-jerk reaction that people have to the term "pay to win", is there any argument as to why this couldn't be a thing? It would certainly make DE a lot of money, and players can still technically get this weapon for free through trading. 

 

Someone can explain me what its happening?!

[Futurehero]

3 minutes ago, Souldend78 said:

Thats the thing, he wants to entirely bypass any effort beside loading his wallet into the game.

Next thread will be:

"Why can't I buy my Mastery Rank?"

Paying for mastery rank would actually be a lot more fair than what I suggested. Mastery rank doesn't make you stronger, it just unlocks things.

It would be the very definition of pay to skip, which is what this game already does.

[PoopManZ]

Rather put in a 1000 plat option for 7 days: Victory Booster. The game automatically takes you to the success screen.

Edited June 19, 2016 by PoopManZ

[Vali]

42 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

-This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem .

 

Pretty much the most nonsense statement I've heard. Having stronger weapons will not end the one shot kills by enemies, having higher damage numbers will only cause the bar of bullet sponge enemies to go up a little. It's nothing more than contributing to power creep which we don't need. 

We need better enemy diversity, AI and mechanics, not bigger numbers to solve the issue of scaling. 

[Azrael]

Just now, DeltaPhantom said:

More accurately, they countered some serious enemy cheese.

You know, I *liked* playing old bless trin. She was much harder to play than current bless trin. Now it's just "press 4 for DR." Granted, there's the range thing to think about, but before I had to put myself at real risk to put up a 99 bless. There was more timing, more need for energy, more need for clever glaive builds, more need to find a corner to hide in while you took yourself to 2 hp...

Granted, the 99% DR was a bit OP, but achieving it was more fun and more difficult, IMHO. Now there isn't even a time gap between casts!

[Bleak-Knight]

*Plot twist*

This is bait.

[Futurehero]

5 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

I'll expand upon the reason why it's bad:

• It creates a rift between non-paying and paying players, and can be a source of discrimination and disrespectful behavior between the two groups
• It prevents non-paying players from ever being able to achieve the same feats or level of power as paying players
• It prevents non-paying players from being able to obtain gear or items which affect their ability/performance in game
• It locks out non-paying players from content (Can you imagine if Update 19 required players to pay to be able to access U19 content, quests and game modes?)
• It makes the developers look greedy as hek (DE has been very good about not turning their game into something that PWE/Nexon puts out)

 

There are plenty of reasons why making the game Pay 2 Win is a very bad move. At the same time, DE has shown through their success that the benefits of leaving the game Free to Play (with a Pay for Convenience) system far outweighs the negative stigma that are associated with Pay 2 Win titles.

A counter argument would be "Why should this game remain as Free to Play?", and the answer would be "Because it works really well as it is." If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Making the game Pay 2 Win would make it objectively worse than it is now.

You can trade for platinum in this game, so those arguments aren't 100% valid.

The developers didn't look greedy when they made Prime gear better than non-primed gear all the while back so they could sell Prime access. Or put in premium resource extractors in the Rhino Prime pack. Why now?

 

 

You can call it that as many times as you want, meanwhile i'm still here responding to posts as best as I can.....

2 minutes ago, Bleak-Knight said:

*Plot twist*

This is bait.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Futurehero

[Kalenath]

9 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

Paying for mastery rank would actually be a lot more fair than what I suggested. Mastery rank doesn't make you stronger, it just unlocks things.

It would be the very definition of pay to skip, which is what this game already does.

Yeah, why should people have to play the game to get rewards for playing the game?

*facepalm*

Edited June 19, 2016 by Kalenath

[ComfyOlivia]

Because free to play games are meant to be accessible. It doesn't matter how the game is played at all. If your free to play game discourages people from actually playing as a free player, your game is going to get a bad rep. 

It doesn't matter if the truth is a certain way or not (I'm not going to argue the exact effects the change would have on things in the game itself). A game being labeled as Pay to Win is going to get a lot less people playing with only a chance of bringing more people in that will pay. You might break even, but then you're a bit of a scum bag for taking advantage.

[PoopManZ]

4 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

You can trade for platinum in this game, so those arguments aren't 100% valid.

The developers didn't look greedy when they made Prime gear better than non-primed gear all the while back so they could sell Prime access. Or put in premium resource extractors in the Rhino Prime pack. Why now?

 

1) Trading for plat leads to awesome weapons being insanely cheap for people (that can work towards it with relatively 0 hassle for free), weapons that completely invalidate your idea

2) The resource extractors are the most useless things next to elemental reistance mods.

 

3) You can also simply work towards primed items if they arent vaulted, they arent as broken (actually they arent at all broken, and every single prime frame is simply a choice, the vanilla frames can still be used in endless survivals) as a 1HKO gun.

Edited June 19, 2016 by PoopManZ

[Letter13]

7 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

You can trade for platinum in this game, so those arguments aren't 100% valid.

The developers didn't look greedy when they made Prime gear better than non-primed gear all the while back so they could sell Prime access. Or put in premium resource extractors in the Rhino Prime pack. Why now?

 

The arguments are 100% valid.

Pay to win means content only obtainable through real world money. Not platinum. Like guns or frames only available through Prime Access that can't be built in game or bought with platinum.

Items that are platinum only are not pay to win, precisely because platinum can be traded between paying and non-paying players, which gives an avenue for non-paying players to obtain platinum and therefore have access to items (such as cosmetics) that are only available for platinum. A gun that costs 300 platinum would only be pay-to-win if platinum were not tradable.

Pay to win items on the other hand would be items that are impossible to obtain by a player without they themselves expending real world money; it is the concept that a paying player can have a quantifiable and unobtainable advantage over nonpaying players in competitiveness.

[Bleak-Knight]

6 minutes ago, Futurehero said:

You can trade for platinum in this game, so those arguments aren't 100% valid.

The developers didn't look greedy when they made Prime gear better than non-primed gear all the while back so they could sell Prime access. Or put in premium resource extractors in the Rhino Prime pack. Why now?

 

 

You can call it that as many times as you want, meanwhile i'm still here responding to posts as best as I can.....

In the beginning you were saying that this weapon be bought 300 platinum. Trust me. Only a complete idiot would buy a weapon 300 plat. You can get Sancti Tigris for sooo much cheaper and does more damage. (It also has syndicate proc)

Spoiler

Your argument is bait.

 

Edited June 19, 2016 by Bleak-Knight

[Vali]

1 minute ago, Futurehero said:

You can trade for platinum in this game, so those arguments aren't 100% valid.

The developers didn't look greedy when they made Prime gear better than non-primed gear all the while back so they could sell Prime access. Or put in premium resource extractors in the Rhino Prime pack. Why now?

 

 

If you were selling weapons which outclasses other weapons (as said in OP) it would pretty much crash the trading market, making it impossible to sell anything. Why would people trade for items if they could just flat out buy weapons? 90% of the trading market is Prime Items, and if Prime weapons still outclasses others, making p2w weapons becomes obsolete. Trading and grinding for items are completely different, it would only make the grind worse if people had to get platinum to acquire items. 

Prime items are still rare but acquirable through effort, even if they outclassed other weapons they were still obtainable. Premium resources extractors are pretty much 100% useless since the resources you gain from it could easily be acquired in 5 minutes of gameplay.