Now more than ever, the Focus gains need a massive buff

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, Koloricsi said:

He actually is describing what the system IS and how the developers intended it to be. You guys are unreasonable because you want more, constantly more, wanting the final end game progression to be a matter of weeks, if not hours. 
Also all caps is considered shouting, what he does is he emphasizes while being emotionally invested in the argument.

Guess that answers whether or not you missed the rest of the thread.

59 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Logically if we weren't supposed to be able to hit it, then the cap would be lower.

Given that it has been raised in the past clearly DE agree that people should be able to hit the cap. If they didn't agree, and didn't want people to hit 100k then they wouldn't have raised it that high.

Enough with the caps lock as well, every argument you take part in you go OTT with the caps. It looks like your intention is to win the argument by forcing it down our throats, rather than by using reason and logic.

In regards to it being an endgame system we shouldn't be rushing through, it takes millions upon millions of points to get through focus. Even if you hit the cap everyday since it was released you wouldn't have gotten everything. No one can rush through it, no one is wanting to rush through it. Some are just wanting more than the pitiful gains we currently get, especially if you're a solo/duo player.

Yes, he is describing what the system is and how the Developers intended it to work. BUT HE IS NOT PROVIDING AN ARGUMENT (Caps are used for emphasis right?)

Yes, it is a cap, so what? As we've pointed out having a cap in no way means we shouldn't be able to hit it, it just stops us going beyond a certain amount. If we weren't supposed to hit it then why is it so high?

His other point about not rushing through it is completely irrelevant, I haven't actually seen anyone here saying they want the cap to be higher making it a complete strawman.

Also lol at being emotionally invested in an argument, Stratego has a tendency to let his emotion get in the way when it comes to arguments, I've pointed this out to him before as have others. No one can have a healthy debate with someone getting emotional, it just doesn't work.

So yes, what argument has he provided that means he is right and we're all unreasonable? Or are you just making it all up?

Edited July 9, 2016 by DeMonkey

[Koloricsi]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Guess that answers whether or not you missed the rest of the thread.

Yes, he is describing what the system is and how the Developers intended it to work. BUT HE IS NOT PROVIDING AN ARGUMENT (Caps are used for emphasis right?)

Yes, it is a cap, so what? As we've pointed out having a cap in no way means we shouldn't be able to hit it, it just stops us going beyond a certain amount. If we weren't supposed to hit it then why is it so high?

His other point about not rushing through it is completely irrelevant, I haven't actually seen anyone here saying they want the cap to be higher making it a complete strawman.

Also lol at being emotionally invested in an argument, Stratego has a tendency to let his emotion get in the way when it comes to arguments, I've pointed this out to him before as have others. No one can have a healthy debate with someone getting emotional, it just doesn't work.

So yes, what argument has he provided that means he is right and we're all unreasonable? Or are you just making it all up?

So according to your understanding, the dev's intention and efforts towards that goal is not a valid argument....okay.

You get it wrong, you only see that there is a thing that limits your advances in the focus system. That cap should be invisible to most who take the system as intended and is a hard wall to those who are overzealous with too much time on their hands. They didn't put it there so you can have a goal and decide to grind it out in 2 hours or whatnot, they put it there to stop people like that from upgrading everything in each tree within a week.
The fact that there isn't a better system in place of this cap is that the devs have no idea how to stop the crazy hardcore gamers who play warframe all day and night even after mr 20 and honestly i can't come up with a better solution either from the top of my head.

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Stratego89 said:

It USED to be lower (no- I did NOT forget that). Why was it raised? Because people like the OP are completely ******* insane were complaining they could still grind more per day if the cap was higher and would not shut up until DE finally did something. 

Obviously the 50k cap is more reasonable- but NOTHING ABOUT THESE PEOPLE is reasonable. That's what you have to understand.

DE put it to cap the INSANE people- not give ANYONE a goal to reach.

Like seriously- not to bash, but don't people have anything better to do with their lives than max out their focus and complain that the cap isn't higher?

Wow you're offensive. Are you even capable of a reasonable discussion? Do you shout at everyone around you all the time in real life? You're talking about being unreasonable, but you show up to a reasonable discussion and just insult everybody?

And hitting the daily cap has never been unreasonable. I used to do it in three trips to public draco. Not meta RJ trips, public missions where we just ran around killing stuff like normal. Before they nerfed stealth farming I could get the old 75k cap in one mission. Nothing unreasonable here.

You know what is unreasonable? Expecting to get access to what you want in the focus system by passively gaining focus. You need millions of focus just to get a few skills in one school, and passive gains when I'm not trying to farm it can be in the hundreds. Expecting to get anywhere in just a few months like that is actually unreasonable. It's not supposed to take years to get access to a few abilities that have such a large impact on the game.

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Koloricsi said:

So according to your understanding, the dev's intention and efforts towards that goal is not a valid argument....okay.

You get it wrong, you only see that there is a thing that limits your advances in the focus system. That cap should be invisible to most who take the system as intended and is a hard wall to those who are overzealous with too much time on their hands. They didn't put it there so you can have a goal and decide to grind it out in 2 hours or whatnot, they put it there to stop people like that from upgrading everything in each tree within a week.
The fact that there isn't a better system in place of this cap is that the devs have no idea how to stop the crazy hardcore gamers who play warframe all day and night even after mr 20 and honestly i can't come up with a better solution either from the top of my head.

It's like you haven't even read what anyone has said.

Either,

A) Go through the entire thread again, re-reading everything and understand what it is we're saying, or

B) Take yourself out of this thread.

Because at the moment you have no idea what anyone has actually said, you haven't understood anything but you're trying to make an argument based on the limited understanding that you have. It's not working. 

[ShogunGunshow]

I could give two lumps about focus gain when the focus trees themselves range from 'broken good' to 'burning dumpster fire'. Rather fix those, first.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Haldos
Language.

[Koloricsi]

 

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It's like you haven't even read what anyone has said.

Either,

A) Go through the entire thread again, re-reading everything and understand what it is we're saying, or

B) Take yourself out of this thread.

Because at the moment you have no idea what anyone has actually said, you haven't understood anything but you're trying to make an argument based on the limited understanding that you have. It's not working. 

I'm basically saying the same thing that Stratego did, but somehow i don't have an idea what the others said? Okay.

I can't be bothered to re-read all the whining you people have about losing draco and now you can't easily reach your daily cap or how low the current cap is.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Koloricsi said:

I'm basically saying the same thing that Stratego did, but somehow i don't have an idea what the others said? Okay.

I can't be bothered to re-read all the whining you people have about losing draco and now you can't easily reach your daily cap or how low the current cap is.

If you can't be bothered to read and understand our posts, why on earth do you think you can take part in a rational discussion?

Yes, you are saying the same thing Stratego said. But as I have already pointed out he does not have an argument, his comments actually have 0 relevance to the OP.

OP wants focus to be gained easier so we can reasonably hit the cap. Stratego (and now you) keep going on about how the cap is there to stop us from maxing focus too quickly. So what? That has 0 relevance to the actual topic. OP is not asking to go beyond the cap, as pointed out numerous times before if we weren't expected to be able to hit the cap it wouldn't be so high nor would it have been raised.

And the fact that you're making up assumptions in an attempt to support your stupid argument... Who is being unreasonable now? (For the record I never used Draco, as soon as Focus 1.1 came out I realised how bad the system now was and gave up on the system altogether).

 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Draco? No.

[Dornez]

3 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Yes. We do. That reason is TO STOP INSANE PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO GRIND INFINITELY. It's a CAP for a reason. It is a CAP. NOT A GOAL. STOP TRYING TO HIT IT.

 

I seem to have no trouble hitting my syndicate CAP. I can level a weapon or warframe to its CAP of lvl 30 in a matter of a few hours......Seems to me all the CAPs BUT focus can be reached with moderate effort.

By your definition of CAP i shouldn't be doing that.

How bout we remove the rose tinted glasses here and see it for what it is, DE wants to sell the advanced lenses, but even those are just drops compared to the vast ocean that is focus xp.

I agree with the OP. DE set the expectation with syndicates, " Here is the daily cap, and you can hit it with some effort" Then came Tenno Focus and you are saying, " Here is the cap....don't even try"

It is conflicting info and it is VERY frustrating.

[Koloricsi]

48 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Except the next step after whining your way for an easier way to farm focus is whine your way for them to raise the cap, like very other times people wanted something.

Which part of "RE-read" was confusing for you in my previous comment? 

This is like 80% of the other threads that want something in the game to change.

[Azrael]

15 minutes ago, Koloricsi said:

I can't be bothered to re-read all the whining you people have about losing draco and now you can't easily reach your daily cap or how low the current cap is.

Nobody here has whined about anything. Nobody has complained about losing draco. Nobody has complained about how low the cap is. And yet all you want to do is bring up these subjects and insult people. Maybe you could try staying on topic? At very least, please try to show that your capable of being civil.

The one thing that I didn't mention before was: I don't want to farm focus. I want to just play normally. But the gains that way are so pitiful they're a joke. So if I want to make any use at all of the focus system, I have no real choice but to farm it. I would support a system that made it easier to passively gain without making it too much easier to farm. Like, maybe a tie in to the amount of time you play in a day?

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Koloricsi said:

Except the next step after whining your way for an easier way to farm focus is whine your way for them to raise the cap, like very other times people wanted something.

Which part of "RE-read" was confusing for you in my previous comment? 

This is like 80% of the other threads that want something in the game to change.

More assumptions.

I saw the ''re-read'', but since you seem to have failed to actually read any of it the first time round it's not ''re-reading'' is it. 

You're completely unreasonable, and I know for a fact that no matter how many times you quote me you will never be able to actually point out where Stratego or yourself have had a valid argument as to why focus gains shouldn't be raised.

In fact, you seem to have given up trying to argue with me, and you're now being a hypocrite. What was that about nitpicking earlier?

1 hour ago, Koloricsi said:

This is why i hate to comment on anything on the internet. No real arguments, nitpicking.

Yup, you have no real argument, and you've just nitpicked my post with the ''re-read'' bit. Aren't you a delightful hypocrite.

I'm not going to indulge your attempts to argue with me any longer, I've given you ample opportunity. 

Cheerio.

[(PSN)AllEyezOnThee]

A Cap was implemented to make sure that players with extra time "could reach the cap" but was never intended for everyone to hit the cap daily - without hours dished out. It isn't a requirement to max focus daily it's a choice and if focus gain isn't as fast as it was in Draco then so be it - either play longer or be content.

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)lNoctus said:

A Cap was implemented to make sure that players with extra time "could reach the cap" but was never intended for everyone to hit the cap daily - without hours dished out. It isn't a requirement to max focus daily it's a choice and if focus gain isn't as fast as it was in Draco then so be it - either play longer or be content.

Without some sort of meta farming hitting the cap is very unreasonable even with "hours dished out". Right now it's either meta-farm or get basically nothing. It's essentially impossible to hit the cap through normal play on the star chart, even if you spend all day playing. On the other hand, I NEVER feel the need to farm syndicate standing. I always play enough to get all I need.

[LuckyCharm]

Focus... the Endgame?

If it was supposed to be end game why was it released in a quest where you get to meet and make your operator? That seems more like a beginning than an end. 

 

As for the "Cap" which people seem intent on arguing about.. the cap is indeed to stop people clearing the entire thing in an afternoon with a bunch of friends running the old draco. And you know what? Some people did just that. I saw plenty of streamers showing off the new focus powers days after the release having max leveled everything on the trees after having grinded a little with an affinity booster. Remember draco? Before the change to focus with the affinity pickups you used to get a lot more focus in short amounts of time. It could take you 2-4 draco waves to have 100k focus done. Before the cap was put in people grinded tons out. That's why there is a cap. Not some stupid "the devs said this was going to be late game" nonsense. It was to stop people finishing the trees in a day or two.

Just like they capped Syndicate standing. And Conclave, and made LoR once per day. Its to stop you getting everything done in a super short amount of time. 

I would like to see more focus for solo missions, since most times I get 20ish focus after clearing my way through capture missions. I don't really think farm missions need much more tbh

[Cray]

4 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Focus... the Endgame?

If it was supposed to be end game why was it released in a quest where you get to meet and make your operator? That seems more like a beginning than an end. 

 

As for the "Cap" which people seem intent on arguing about.. the cap is indeed to stop people clearing the entire thing in an afternoon with a bunch of friends running the old draco. And you know what? Some people did just that. I saw plenty of streamers showing off the new focus powers days after the release having max leveled everything on the trees after having grinded a little with an affinity booster. Remember draco? Before the change to focus with the affinity pickups you used to get a lot more focus in short amounts of time. It could take you 2-4 draco waves to have 100k focus done. Before the cap was put in people grinded tons out. That's why there is a cap. Not some stupid "the devs said this was going to be late game" nonsense. It was to stop people finishing the trees in a day or two.

Just like they capped Syndicate standing. And Conclave, and made LoR once per day. Its to stop you getting everything done in a super short amount of time. 

I would like to see more focus for solo missions, since most times I get 20ish focus after clearing my way through capture missions. I don't really think farm missions need much more tbh

The purpose of this thread isn't to touch the 100k cap. That's fine where it is.

 

It's our ability to reach said cap that's at issue, though some of us can't handle that apparently...

[LuckyCharm]

42 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

The purpose of this thread isn't to touch the 100k cap. That's fine where it is.

 

It's our ability to reach said cap that's at issue, though some of us can't handle that apparently...

This is true, I do tend to agree. Late game or no it's a chore to get that much focus even on a good day with no booster. It would be rather nice if the focus gained was based on enemy level or something more defining than affinity since some maps, like infested maps do tend to yield a lot less affinity when compared to maps of the same difficulty for other factions

[HellDevil]

Draco finaly gone. Just find a different way to get the perfect grind for yourself man.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

17 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

I'm not gonna beat around the bush here. Draco made the Focus farm tolerable.

There is the main issue right there, over reliance on missions like draco to 'farm'. That's the reason it was removed, because too many people put too much reliance on it and did not explore the rest of the game.

[Cray]

9 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

There is the main issue right there, over reliance on missions like draco to 'farm'. That's the reason it was removed, because too many people put too much reliance on it and did not explore the rest of the game.

Oh, I agree it had to be removed, but as it stands, getting all of your daily allotment of Focus either requires way too much farming, or a somewhat exploitative approach, such as Draco. In the several weeks prior to my "maximum overfarm" adventure, I was effectively gaining the equivalent of pennies for Focus, and I avoided Draco for most of that time.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

1 minute ago, DeltaPhantom said:

Oh, I agree it had to be removed, but as it stands, getting all of your daily allotment of Focus either requires way too much farming, or a somewhat exploitative approach, such as Draco. In the several weeks prior to my "maximum overfarm" adventure, I was effectively gaining the equivalent of pennies for Focus, and I avoided Draco for most of that time.

Trust me... that Daily allotment is ridiculous. Its still at the "beta" level of over 100k+ right? It should only be MR x 1000 (or 2000) + 1000 like everything else with a limit in the game.

[Cray]

4 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:

Trust me... that Daily allotment is ridiculous. Its still at the "beta" level of over 100k+ right? It should only be MR x 1000 (or 2000) + 1000 like everything else with a limit in the game.

Only if the costs were lowered.

 

Let's look at my Vazarin setup.

Unranked Mending Tides - Free, I started with Vazarin, 1 capacity

Maxed New Moon - 25k unlock, 75k,112.5k,150k to upgrade, 4 capacity

Maxed Disciplined Approach - 50k unlock, 150k,225k,300k to upgrade, 7 capacity

Maxed Mending Tides Mastery (Or at least, that's my goal, currently at Rank 1) - 120k unlock, 75k,112.5k,150k to upgrade, 4 capacity

 

Total Focus Needed: 1,545,000

Total Capacity Needed: 16

Total Capacity Cost: 197,439 (Listed on wiki)

Grand Total: 1,742,439

 

You will need to get 100k every day for 17 days, and half your cap on the 18th, to get this setup. That's a good 2 1/2 weeks, and we haven't even looked at the rest of Vazarin yet, let alone any of the other schools.

 

Trust me, the cap is fine where it's at.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

8 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

Only if the costs were lowered.

 

Let's look at my Vazarin setup.

Unranked Mending Tides - Free, I started with Vazarin, 1 capacity

Maxed New Moon - 25k unlock, 75k,112.5k,150k to upgrade, 4 capacity

Maxed Disciplined Approach - 50k unlock, 150k,225k,300k to upgrade, 7 capacity

Maxed Mending Tides Mastery (Or at least, that's my goal, currently at Rank 1) - 120k unlock, 75k,112.5k,150k to upgrade, 4 capacity

 

Total Focus Needed: 1,545,000

Total Capacity Needed: 16

Total Capacity Cost: 197,439 (Listed on wiki)

Grand Total: 1,742,439

 

You will need to get 100k every day for 17 days, and half your cap on the 18th, to get this setup. That's a good 2 1/2 weeks, and we haven't even looked at the rest of Vazarin yet, let alone any of the other schools.

 

Trust me, the cap is fine where it's at.

Never said it wasn't overly grindy, i feel they should lower the cost rather than have a high daily cap. But the point i was trying to make originaly was that the reliance on draco was sapping the life out of warframe at a rather accelerated pace. Its just going to take some adjustments... and for DE to actually FIX a few things rather than add bandaids like they usually do.

[Cray]

Just now, PureIcarus said:

Never said it wasn't overly grindy, i feel they should lower the cost rather than have a high daily cap. But the point i was trying to make originaly was that the reliance on draco was sapping the life out of warframe at a rather accelerated pace. Its just going to take some adjustments... and for DE to actually FIX a few things rather than add bandaids like they usually do.

Indeed.

 

We can only hope...

[Stahlhammer]

19 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

Yes. We do. That reason is TO STOP INSANE PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO GRIND INFINITELY. It's a CAP for a reason. It is a CAP. NOT A GOAL. STOP TRYING TO HIT IT.

 

Focus is END GAME. It is SUPPOSED TO BE SLOW. It is meant as a PASSIVE REWARD for players that don't have anything else to earn- to give them something to look forward to unlocking SLOWLY OVER TIME as they continue to play the game.

 

YOU do not see that. DE has said this- that's ALWAYS been the idea and goal of Focus. YOU are twisting it in your head into something that is not. It is working as intended (at least in how you unlock it. Can't speak for the rest considering how OP some of it is and useless other parts are BUT I DIGRESS). It should NOT change to suit you farm crazy people that gotta have everything asap and probably physically harm yourselves grinding on a daily basis and need to do something else.

Now imagine a new guy joining the game. I might notice, most of the people playing games are competitive ones. They want to play to reach the top and own all, not run around on Mercury with Braton.

Now imagine that new guy seeing he gets 500 focus from a regular mission with 3 great lenses. I won't even mention getting other stuff in this game. Will (s)he 

A). Consider playing 200 missions a day to progress faster

B). Say "eff this game"  

?

Edited July 10, 2016 by Stahlhammer