Mods Vs New Slots: Artifact (Re: Livestream)

[Xylia]

Here's my take on what was mentioned in Livestream about Artifacts, the Artifact Overhaul, and whether or not we should make a new slot type, or throw Artifacts in the Mod System:

 

First of all.... I am really very much against the idea of putting Artifacts on the Mod System, and here's why:

 

We just don't have enough slots for mods as it is.

 

Simple enough.

 

Every Warframe has 10 Card Slots. 4 of those are polarized for Warframe Powers specifically.

 

This leaves you 6 to work with.

 

If you want to not die anytime something looks in your direction later levels, you must have Redirection.

 

Absolute necessity, as you cannot survive anything with ~200 shields on a Lv30 Warframe at Lv30+ content. You will literally die in seconds with no Redirection.

 

Along with Redirection, Vitality is almost just as important. If your shields go down, especially if you happen to be in a Frame like Ember, you will die even faster with no Vitality (since Ember has, like what, 10 armor?).

 

Now we're down to 4 Mod Slots left.

 

Nearly every Warframe needs 1 or more (probably 2) of the following Energy Mods:

 

Flow

Streamline

Stretch

Continuity

Focus

 

If you're not gearing for Duration powers, you're probably gearing for Efficiency or Focus, instead.

 

This takes us down to, realistically, two mod slots left.

 

This is assuming you didn't take 4 Energy Mods already. There's things like Steel Fiber, Master Thief, Rush, Quick Rest, Fast Deflection....

 

You can surely see how we are already short on Mod Slots. Forcing us to use up a precious mod slot on our Artifact Powers is a huge nerf to our abilities. With that proposed change, we're going to have to drop one of the above mods listed above for something like Energy Siphon, or Enemy Radar......oh wait, don't we ALREADY have an Enemy Radar mod?

 

Please give us a new "Artifact Slot" in the Mod screen or something. Maybe make a new polarity that is only used by Artifacts, and give Warframes 11 slots, and make the 11th slot an Artifact Polarity if you simply must turn Artifacts into Mods, please.

 

But then, even with that, we end up using Mod Capacity on Artifacts, something else I'm not a big fan of.

 

I just don't think that using Mod Slots or Mod Capacity on Artifacts is very fair, considering we're already stretched thin on what we can do with our Warframes before running out of room or capacity. Removing our artifacts or forcing us to choose between artifacts or mods is a direct nerf to the players' power.

[Angius]

Upvoted. Totally agree.

[General-Griffin]

Agree

[RyuhoTheDragon]

Ah some ppl who think mod artifacts wont spell anything good for us. here i was thinking i was the only one

[Lone_Tenno_Operative]

wait are you saying that they will put the artifacts into mod slots?

if thats true i hope they add  at least 1 slot than , otherwise its just bad choice

 

the artifact should be added to customizations like the helmets are ,they could make them look different and it would be nice to see some more "art" on the frames that way

[ReiganCross]

I wonder if that implies that we'll be able to use more then one Artifact at once... Y'know, like having Rejuvenation and Energy Syphon at the same time?

That would actually do wonders for solo o.o'.

[Xylia]

wait are you saying that they will put the artifacts into mod slots?

if thats true i hope they add  at least 1 slot than , otherwise its just bad choice

 

the artifact should be added to customizations like the helmets are ,they could make them look different and it would be nice to see some more "art" on the frames that way

 

Well, they didn't outright say it, but the one guy thinks they should, the other guy disagreed and they said "we'll work it out".

 

I'm posting this in hopes they'll see this, and consider this input.

[Ivalician]

Ugh that would really make me pissed if they added artifacts to the mod slot, it was always nice to have something extra outside the mods. 

[Xylia]

Ugh that would really make me &!$$ed if they added artifacts to the mod slot, it was always nice to have something extra outside the mods. 

 

Especially with Unranked Warframes, right?

 

And then what about Non-Supercharged Warframes?

 

30 capacity points.

 

How many, again, taken up by Warframe Powers? 2, 3, 4, 5? SOmething like that? that's like 14 out of 30 taken up by Warframe Powers. And you KNOW if they did this, Energy Siphon would likely be a 10 power.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Xylia

[Ruzu]

100% agree with this thread. With my play-style, I have absolutely no room for any other mods at this point. MAYBE, if Digital Extremes allowed us to buy additional mod slots, I wouldn't mind, but since I have no idea whether that thought is in their heads at all, I  have to disagree with the proposed artifact change.

[Watlok]

It makes more sense to force the player into making actual choices. There is no choice if they provide a special artifact slot. The head game design guy who left midway through the stream knows what he is talking about. Adding a special artifact slot continues to leave no choice in the current mod system. It's an easy way out that just lets you have everything, and it doesn't even make sense to change from the current artifact system to the new one if that is the route they go. Why even bother?

Edited June 20, 2013 by Watlok

[S3raph]

I wonder if that implies that we'll be able to use more then one Artifact at once... Y'know, like having Rejuvenation and Energy Syphon at the same time?

That would actually do wonders for solo o.o'.

 

Not really... Energy Syphon and Rejuvenation shine when playing in a team with other players equipping the same Artifact (as they stack). If you're playing solo, you're getting 1 Energy/Health every 2 seconds which  is too little to make any real difference in solo

[forseeker]

it doesn't even make sense to change from the current artifact system to the new one if that is the route they go. Why even bother?

 

Folding artifacts into the mod system would allow duplicate artifacts to be used to upgrade each other like duplicate mods.

 

Of course, so many people would then say that artifacts should just be removed from the loot tables after they're first obtained so that players have a higher chance of getting useful stuff...

[Watlok]

Folding artifacts into the mod system would allow duplicate artifacts to be used to upgrade each other like duplicate mods.

 

Of course, so many people would then say that artifacts should just be removed from the loot tables after they're first obtained so that players have a higher chance of getting useful stuff...

 

Artifacts become mods in the new system. Having a special artifact slot just seems kind of silly. Giving them a special border is fine because they are "artifact" mods, not drop mods, and they do things that mods don't usually do. Giving them their own slot is kind of confusing and silly because that's not how mods work. Giving them their own polarity is cool because that is how mods work. If they are going to have their own slot they should scrap the level idea, because then they aren't a mod.

 

Unless they become a "player" mod instead of a "warframe" mod, but the stream made it sound like the unique slot would be per warframe or something. A "player" mod is also what artifacts are right now, although they don't have levels.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Watlok

[S3raph]

Artifacts become mods in the new system. Having a special artifact slot just seems kind of silly. Giving them a special border is fine because they are "artifact" mods, not drop mods, and they do things that mods don't usually do. Giving them their own slot is kind of confusing and silly because that's not how mods work. Giving them their own polarity is cool because that is how mods work. If they are going to have their own slot they should scrap the level idea, because then they aren't a mod.

 

Unless they become a "player" mod instead of a "warframe" mod, but the stream made it sound like the unique slot would be per warframe or something. A "player" mod is also what artifacts are right now, although they don't have levels.

 

That is all well and good... problem is you only have 4 mods slots available right now (4 abilities and the 2 polarized slots often force you to use certain mods), if you don't use forma... not to mention that a 30 mod capacity (without reactor) is very limited. Out of those 30 you have to use 10 to equip your abilities, if you don't rank your abilities (makes them kind of useless in higher levels).

Throwing the Artifacts in the mod system without adding a slot and/or mod capacity is basically saying "Hey, unless you potato and forma (at least once) your frame, artifacts are not for you".

[Watlok]

You're not forced to equip all of your abilities. It's a bad idea on almost every frame, and you can repolarize or equip the wrong polarity on ability slots.

 

You pretty much have to potato frames already. It's a severe handicap to not do so. Plus, an artifact is the last thing you'd want without a potato. There are much better things to equip, and I don't see why you'd even try to do endgame content (where artifacts could potentially matter) without a potato.

 

Forma blueprints drop like candy in tower 2. They are ~1/8 drop rate.

[Numot]

Why change it from how it currently is? It works as nice utility.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I probably wouldn't use an artifact if it had to go into a mod slot.

[forseeker]

The big complaint now is that duplicate artifacts (which are worth absolutely nothing in the current system) clog up the RNG tables and reduce the chance of getting more important items.

[S3raph]

You're not forced to equip all of your abilities. It's a bad idea on almost every frame, and you can repolarize or equip the wrong polarity on ability slots.

 

You pretty much have to potato frames already. It's a severe handicap to not do so. Plus, an artifact is the last thing you'd want without a potato. There are much better things to equip, and I don't see why you'd even try to do endgame content (where artifacts could potentially matter) without a potato.

 

Forma blueprints drop like candy in tower 2. They are ~1/8 drop rate.

 

Equipping wrong polarities would further aggravate the problem with the currently limited mod capacity...

Also, as you just said yourself this change would make Artifact not a viable option for frames without a reactor, whereas right now they are a viable option...

It's a step backward not a step forward in any way you look at it (as long as they don't add mod slots/capacity)

 

Yes, forma bps aren't exactly rare but the problem with that is now you're doing twice the work to get the frame to the same level of "usefulness" and without getting any mastery rank points

[VashLa]

I know this is kind of off topic but I am not Shure where the best place to post this idea where it will be seen so I’m putting it everywhere.

After watching the live stream a thought accrued. You were thinking of changing artifacts into mod like cards. Well since you currently limit us to one artifact use at a time why not ad one artifact mod slot to the warframe helmets, that way it will not use a warframe mod slot and still limit us to only have one artifact active at once. 

[S3raph]

I know this is kind of off topic but I am not Shure where the best place to post this idea where it will be seen so I’m putting it everywhere.

After watching the live stream a thought accrued. You were thinking of changing artifacts into mod like cards. Well since you currently limit us to one artifact use at a time why not ad one artifact mod slot to the warframe helmets, that way it will not use a warframe mod slot and still limit us to only have one artifact active at once. 

 

That solution would mean people who don't have or want to equip the alternate helmet could not have an artifact equipped

[Angius]

DE wants to make Arifacts Mods, ok, nice idea, 'cause we will be able to fuse them.

But this is what we needs:

New slot with new polarity, restricted to only Artifact/Aura mods, not repolarizable (is that even a word?) with Forma

[S3raph]

DE wants to make Arifacts Mods, ok, nice idea, 'cause we will be able to fuse them.

But this is what we needs:

New slot with new polarity, restricted to only Artifact/Aura mods, not repolarizable (is that even a word?) with Forma

 

This is exactly what I was thinking... If they want to include artifacts as mods THIS IS THE WAY TO GO

[ScorpDK]

I understand that the way you select your artifacts atm (in the player menu) is a clumsy, and that they should be selectable from your arsenal, but I ain't really liking the idea of them working as mod cards, as the costs to equip them might just ruin every current setup.

 

 

Tho, it would be nice if you could upgrade your artifacts to make them better. HOWEVER, when I say "upgrade" them, I don't suggest simply raising the current stat, but adding in new abilities for higher ranks.

 

For example (-!-rough concepts-!-)

 

Team Rejuvenation

Rank 0 - Recovers 1 HP every 2 seconds

Rank 1 - Increases amount of Health received from other sources by 50% (pickups, Trinity skills)

Rank 2 - Recovers 2 HP every 2 seconds

Rank 3 - Gain 50% HP from Energy Orbs and 50% Energy from Health Orbs.

Rank 4 - When below 50% HP, you regain 5 HP every 2 seconds

 

Enemy Radar

Rank 0 - +30 Enemy Radar

Rank 1 - Enemies in detection range get a shader effect and outlines to make them more visible

Rank 2 - +15  Enemy Radar

Rank 3 - Enemy outlines now visible through walls

Rank 4 - Detected enemies have weakspots shown, similar to Banshee's Sonar, but at a lower efficiency.

 

Physique
Rank 0 - +10% HP (up from 5)

Rank 1 - Decreases health-damage from enemies by 12.5%; Self-Inflicted Damage by 25%(doesn't stack, or with diminishing returns for additional Physique artifacts from other player)

Rank 2 - +20% HP, +20% Stamina

Rank 3 - Decreases health-damage from enemies by 25%; Self-Inflicted Damage by 50% (doesn't stack, or with diminishing returns for additional Physique artifacts from other player)

Rank 4 - When health drops below 50%, become immune to knockback and stumble effects and decrease damage received from all sources by 50% for several seconds. (That, or a berserker mode; the lower your health, the higher your attack, speed and defense stats)

As said above, these are pretty rough concepts but could be adapted properly.

 

Still, Artifacts should NOT cost mod points, being limited to only have 1 equipped at a time (unless later on they unlock a slot for a 2nd one). Additionally, if they can be upgraded, they should only be upgradeable with other artifacts or Fusion Cores, not random mod cards. (Or cost quite a lot of mod points when using normal mods to upgrade, so it takes a while to max them out)

Edited June 20, 2013 by ScorpDK

[Xylia]

DE wants to make Arifacts Mods, ok, nice idea, 'cause we will be able to fuse them.

But this is what we needs:

New slot with new polarity, restricted to only Artifact/Aura mods, not repolarizable (is that even a word?) with Forma

 

The problem with this is, non-potatoed Warframes will absolutely suffer, because you know they will stick simply stupid/ridiculous mod costs on these new "mods". With 30 point max and a huge slew of mods, these things would have to be absolutely free for us to ever be able to use them on a Warframe that has no Potato.

 

And then we have to think about the newbies.

 

When I was a newbie, I hated seeing that I was 5% of the Damage Done. It made me feel absolutely useless, but what could I really do?

 

Well, I had an artifact slot, and Enemy Radar and Rifle Amp were two of the first ones I found in Alerts. I AT LEAST had that, that I could bring to a team.

 

What are newbies going to have if/when we make Artifacts take up Mod Capacity points? They're not going to have anything, because most newbies do not have potatoes on their Warframes.