Bring back keyshare

[-N7-Leonhart]

3 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

If you have no life, like me, for example, then sure. You can farm relics.

But even then, you could farm keys with the same speed. But keys could get you 4 times more loot even if you didn't get into multiple rotations...

You enjoy excavations so much, you want to do at least 4 times more then you used to?

WHY 4 times more loot? What's the use? It has no use. It just either lowers the prices to 1-2p per part, or is sold for ducats. And Baro's prices got reduced for this exact reason.

People cried that they want less grind time, less junk and more "on-point" prime parts. They got EXACTLY that. Now, people realize that they had no idea what they wanted all along and they want their useless junk back. That junk has no use, maybe just self-gratification.

[Flirk2]

6 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

WHY 4 times more loot? What's the use? It has no use. It just either lowers the prices to 1-2p per part, or is sold for ducats. And Baro's prices got reduced for this exact reason.

People cried that they want less grind time, less junk and more "on-point" prime parts. They got EXACTLY that. Now, people realize that they had no idea what they wanted all along and they want their useless junk back. That junk has no use, maybe just self-gratification.

You don't get it, do you? This is not ''less grind''. You now have to relic farm 4 times more, then you had to farm keys! Even if you compare solo modes, You still have to get more relics then you needed keys.

Some people just didn't feel this yet because of the amount of keys they had. Wait till the next prime get released and see for yourself how easy it is to get something with this system.

And let's face it, at the end of the day, there is nothing in the game but the process of playing the game and the illusion of earning something that in-game loot gives.

Playing became more repetitive than it was. Devs promised to fix that. We'll have to see how effective the fix will be.

But the loot got a definite nerf. Everything from basic resources to prime parts.

They talk about adding more relics in the game. And that could help. But not much. What could help a lot more, is putting  different types of relics on different missions with different chances. If you could go for an excavation and get every type of certain era with the same drop chance. But defense could give more of one type then other. Survival would give or of the other type. And for sabotage you get the third type mostly. Or better yet, if you could go into the void, do the mission and swap one relic for the other (for example, void defense for upgrading the era 1 step every 20 waves, and mobile defense for choosing the type at the consoles)...

But I don't foresee that happening any time soon. Precisely because all the talk about less grind ends up with adding more grind (RNG gamble, really) to the game.

Again, if they just admitted it, I wouldn't say a word. I just don't like how strongly I'm reminded of politicians and their empty promises.

[-N7-Leonhart]

4 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

You don't get it, do you? This is not ''less grind''. You now have to relic farm 4 times more, then you had to farm keys! Even if you compare solo modes, You still have to get more relics then you needed keys.

Some people just didn't feel this yet because of the amount of keys they had. Wait till the next prime get released and see for yourself how easy it is to get something with this system.

And let's face it, at the end of the day, there is nothing in the game but the process of playing the game and the illusion of earning something that in-game loot gives.

Playing became more repetitive than it was. Devs promised to fix that. We'll have to see how effective the fix will be.

But the loot got a definite nerf. Everything from basic resources to prime parts.

They talk about adding more relics in the game. And that could help. But not much. What could help a lot more, is putting  different types of relics on different missions with different chances. If you could go for an excavation and get every type of certain era with the same drop chance. But defense could give more of one type then other. Survival would give or of the other type. And for sabotage you get the third type mostly. Or better yet, if you could go into the void, do the mission and swap one relic for the other (for example, void defense for upgrading the era 1 step every 20 waves, and mobile defense for choosing the type at the consoles)...

But I don't foresee that happening any time soon. Precisely because all the talk about less grind ends up with adding more grind (RNG gamble, really) to the game.

Again, if they just admitted it, I wouldn't say a word. I just don't like how strongly I'm reminded of politicians and their empty promises.

You don't get it, do you? It is less grind. I do one quick mission, I have 4 chances to get the part I want. I can get even the rarest parts now in like 30 mins of fissure farming, when before you needed to do it for days and 5% chances on rot C on T4 def / surv.

[Flirk2]

18 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

You don't get it, do you? It is less grind. I do one quick mission, I have 4 chances to get the part I want. I can get even the rarest parts now in like 30 mins of fissure farming, when before you needed to do it for days and 5% chances on rot C on T4 def / surv.

4 chances at the part you want? Congratulations on finding a group of people to play with, that take the same relic as you, refined to the max. And then not getting the bug that doesn't show same rewards for everyone.

30 mins of fissure farming? Congratulations on having enough keys prior to the conversion and not logging in before the first hotfix. If you don't need to go get those relics first, and can't see how difficult it is to get specific ones, you'll only have to wait till the next prime item is released.

5% chance is low. 50% of players won't get the thing after 17 missions with those chances. I was never fond of that in the first place.

Now you have 10 %, so 50% of players won't get it after 7 missions. If they don't go for a perfect squad. If they do, 20% of them won't get it after 4 missions.

But you have to consider that base chance is 2%. 10% is a max refinement chance.

And to get that you'll need to use 10 relics more.

That you'll have to get from the same relic farming missions.

Good news - you can use any relic for that.

Bad news - no matter what you do, you still have to farm for relics. More then you used to. Because on top of the 10 random ones you need for traces, there are more relics then there were keys, and getting those you need will be harder.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Flirk2

[-N7-Leonhart]

23 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

You don't get it, do you? This is not ''less grind''. You now have to relic farm 4 times more, then you had to farm keys! Even if you compare solo modes, You still have to get more relics then you needed keys.

Some people just didn't feel this yet because of the amount of keys they had. Wait till the next prime get released and see for yourself how easy it is to get something with this system.

And let's face it, at the end of the day, there is nothing in the game but the process of playing the game and the illusion of earning something that in-game loot gives.

Playing became more repetitive than it was. Devs promised to fix that. We'll have to see how effective the fix will be.

But the loot got a definite nerf. Everything from basic resources to prime parts.

They talk about adding more relics in the game. And that could help. But not much. What could help a lot more, is putting  different types of relics on different missions with different chances. If you could go for an excavation and get every type of certain era with the same drop chance. But defense could give more of one type then other. Survival would give or of the other type. And for sabotage you get the third type mostly. Or better yet, if you could go into the void, do the mission and swap one relic for the other (for example, void defense for upgrading the era 1 step every 20 waves, and mobile defense for choosing the type at the consoles)...

But I don't foresee that happening any time soon. Precisely because all the talk about less grind ends up with adding more grind (RNG gamble, really) to the game.

Again, if they just admitted it, I wouldn't say a word. I just don't like how strongly I'm reminded of politicians and their empty promises.

Oh forgot to tell you that I have over 2000 relics. I never even farmed the keys back in the day, they just came to me while I was playing the game.

So I have no need to reuse keys, I just need less farm time, and 4 chances at once is just golden for this. The amount of time required is split in 4, or even more if you do a Capture fissure instead of 20 waves of defense (only to get Forma or 3xOC).

[widenose]

The problem with the new system is that on top of the fact that there's no way to verify that your group is all bringing the correct relic and of the same quality, you have to actually get four people together with radiant versions of the same relic (assuming you don't want people leeching).

If it's a less popular relic, good luck.

[Hopeisdead]

Arent relics trad-able ? 

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, widenose said:

The problem with the new system is that on top of the fact that there's no way to verify that your group is all bringing the correct relic and of the same quality, you have to actually get four people together with radiant versions of the same relic (assuming you don't want people leeching).

If it's a less popular relic, good luck.

They are still from the same era, so the rarest stuff may still interest me. Besides, the opposite may also happen. I will get a crap relic and just leech the drop from someone with a great relic.

[Flirk2]

Just now, -BM-Leonhart said:

Oh forgot to tell you that I have over 2000 relics.

I suspected that. Wait till you'll need to farm relics for the new prime. You'll need specific ones. And you won't have any! That will be fun, I'm sure.

[Hopeisdead]

2 minutes ago, widenose said:

The problem with the new system is that on top of the fact that there's no way to verify that your group is all bringing the correct relic and of the same quality, you have to actually get four people together with radiant versions of the same relic (assuming you don't want people leeching).

If it's a less popular relic, good luck.

Not sure but this seems like really not effective way of doing things.

Situation 4 Radiant Relics you all four get the same reward, consequently the one you all wanted. Result you just wasted 3 radiant relics. 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

I suspected that. Wait till you'll need to farm relics for the new prime. You'll need specific ones. And you won't have any! That will be fun, I'm sure.

I think I told you I never farmed the relics. I just play the game, they come to me. That won't change even now. They all drop eventually. From missions, or syndicates, or just someone may use it in the fissure I am doing, it's all the same. Oh, and I do have every type of relic in amounts of over 50 each.

[widenose]

1 minute ago, Hopeisdead said:

Not sure but this seems like really not effective way of doing things.

Situation 4 Radiant Relics you all four get the same reward, consequently the one you all wanted. Result you just wasted 3 radiant relics. 

You're correct that there's a small amount of waste if you use 4 radiants at the same time. The optimal way to do it is to have 1 person use a radiant while the other 3 use basic, and then rotate through like a keyshare. But that still requires 4 people with radiants unless you're fine with people leeching of your radiants.

 

[Hopeisdead]

Well i am actually fine with it, i am bringing radiant to random groups. Fun fact i got nothing from my radiant while the 2 per. chance of the basic one brought by other player actually brought me the thing i was after.

In the end it is still RNG, sure we can somehow try to improve our odds, but in the end it still does not mean much, it is RNG. 

[robbybe01234]

7 hours ago, TennoPain said:

Why are we not able to share relics (if person goes in mission without relic why dont they get reward)

Just make RNG back as normal 

YES I SAID it I want to be able to share my loot with other players (perhaps if they can get lesser rewards or something)

After this last bit update i find myself not interested in doing missions for prime rewards anymore .... 

U can work around this EVEN some of the DE said the system would be improved if the ''community agrees to it)

 

I take it from your confused statements and lack of response that youre a troll.  Move on folks.

[Flirk2]

6 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

I think I told you I never farmed the relics. I just play the game, they come to me. That won't change even now. They all drop eventually. From missions, or syndicates, or just someone may use it in the fissure I am doing, it's all the same. Oh, and I do have every type of relic in amounts of over 50 each.

You didn't hear the news? New prime parts will be in new relics.

So those you have? They won't help with new prime stuff.

And sure, you don't have to farm relics. If you happen to enjoy rotation C missions and excavation. Or you just have a lot of time. Maybe playing that way you might even get everything before it goes to the vault that is officially a permanent thing now.

I'm not even going to ask you to imagine how someone who just starts the game feel about all this. like that ''close 3 Lith fissures'' condition and a lith fissure open for hours on Mot in the void (a section after Sedna and 3 t4 missions including an interception).

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

You didn't hear the news? New prime parts will be in new relics.

So those you have? They won't help with new prime stuff.

And sure, you don't have to farm relics. If you happen to enjoy rotation C missions and excavation. Or you just have a lot of time. Maybe playing that way you might even get everything before it goes to the vault that is officially a permanent thing now.

I'm not even going to ask you to imagine how someone who just starts the game feel about all this. like that ''close 3 Lith fissures'' condition and a lith fissure open for hours on Mot in the void (a section after Sedna and 3 t4 missions including an interception).

Someone that just starts the game shouldn't have the expectation to get just anything in a short, quick sequence, especially if that happens to be the latest prime gear.

[Haxwell]

The system of not allowing someone without a relic to choose a reward is well needed. I get that you want everyone to get everything they want in warframe but that's just not how it works. This new system of having to give to get was SORELY needed. Why? Because now it's actually somewhat of a plateau to achieve to get prime stuff. Instead of any low MR person being able to get all the prime stuff they wanted, now they have to progress a bunch in the game before they can start collecting prime stuff, WHICH IS THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED.

[rockscl]

7 hours ago, TennoPain said:

Why are we not able to share relics (if person goes in mission without relic why dont they get reward)

Just make RNG back as normal 

YES I SAID it I want to be able to share my loot with other players (perhaps if they can get lesser rewards or something)

After this last bit update i find myself not interested in doing missions for prime rewards anymore .... 

U can work around this EVEN some of the DE said the system would be improved if the ''community agrees to it)

 

What the hell just telll them to use a worthless relic

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Someone that just starts the game shouldn't have the expectation to get just anything in a short, quick sequence, especially if that happens to be the latest prime gear.

Yeah, ignore 90% of his comment and points, latch onto a single sentence, misinterpret it and then act as if you know what you're talking about. That's shown him.

[-N7-Leonhart]

10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yeah, ignore 90% of his comment and points, latch onto a single sentence, misinterpret it and then act as if you know what you're talking about. That's shown him.

So what fault do I have if he chooses to reply to one sentence with a whole manuscript? What you want said needs to be quick and on point.

[Sirfol]

i'm really really really alienated by this "i don't want to change", "i want old system back" , hey like someone said u have more pin point reward now, so what's the problem? the fact u need to farm relics now? ur right and they divided by eras because of that, so player with a relics of one Era have the possibility of getting a reward if someone have the right relic. Earlier u had a set amount of rewards (like 8?) per droptable/key, now u have a friggin 4 droptables  with a menagement RNG system u can bring IN ONE MISSION, if u organize with people (and if u have a clan it's even faster) to have a 34% drop chance for ur rare part (someone in one of this threads made the calculation), tell me HOW IT'S WORSE!?!?!?!?!, i know if u wat to play solo u need to have the right relic but why u complain of a system that helps newbies to get the rewards without the risk of leeching? i don't know anymore xD. I think the mentality of the MR8 wanting to play solo right from the start is terribly wrong, if u have less play time it's obvious u need help to get what u want, if not the people who spent 2000+ hours what advantage they're playtime can give?, now u even have the chance to get VAULTED item even if they are vaulted if u have patience and stock up the relics a thing in the old system didn't even exist. Last thing sorry for this tought but i think it need to be adressed: If you are Helping People or Clannies why you need a reward for your good actions? do you want a cookie? because that's the method dogs were trained. If u REALLY want to help ur clannies or some random dude then bring them to a excavation so they have the means for dropping the thing they want don't make your good action become a consequence for your needs.

and sorry for my english i tend to make many grammar errors in long posts^^ and i don't want to be rude, only concise.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Sirfol

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

So what fault do I have if he chooses to reply to one sentence with a whole manuscript? What you want said needs to be quick and on point.

Actually he quoted 6 that time, not one. Bit of a difference. 

And what do you mean ''what fault do I have''. Are you trying to say it's his fault for writing too much in response? 

''What you want said needs to be quick and on point'', not if you ignore the other persons points entirely.

[Flirk2]

21 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Someone that just starts the game shouldn't have the expectation to get just anything in a short, quick sequence, especially if that happens to be the latest prime gear.

You seem to ignore something. Someone who starts the game won't have your store or relics you got from your store of keys. He would have a hard time getting any prime gear at all.

And then you have some people who actually have a life. And who before the update could join other people, who had keys for their void runs. Now they can't.

But I'm done. I think I made myself as clear as I could. If you don't want to understand what I'm saying, nothing I can add will make you. Good luck.

17 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yeah, ignore 90% of his comment and points, latch onto a single sentence, misinterpret it and then act as if you know what you're talking about. That's shown him.

I remember you had a thread about the nature of RNG with simulation results in form of plots.

I thought of making something similar though a lot less spectacular to show how chances have stayed the same if not gotten worse with this new system. But then I saw the ''prime time oxium farm'' and thought: if they don't see a problem with resource inflation, RNG is surely working as intended.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Actually he quoted 6 that time, not one. Bit of a difference. 

And what do you mean ''what fault do I have''. Are you trying to say it's his fault for writing too much in response? 

''What you want said needs to be quick and on point'', not if you ignore the other persons points entirely.

I don't care for all the points that he makes. Or what, am I now forced to entertain people on every little thing they want to debate?

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

I don't care for all the points that he makes. 

Then don't post. Simple. If you can't respect or care about another person's post, then shame on you for thinking you can debate with that person.

5 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Or what, am I now forced to entertain people on every little thing they want to debate?

As long as it's within the topic of your own post yes, because you therefore started and/or took part in the debate. You had an active part in it, and to ignore all of the relevant points in another's counter-argument, misinterpret a sentence and then create an argument against something that doesn't exist... well, that's a pretty immature thing to do. If you have no counter-argument, stop posting.