I think Loki could stand to have some of his utility limited a bit.

[Kiyomaru-EN-]

 

On ‎07‎.‎08‎.‎2016 at 6:38 PM, Shockwave- said:

But anyone smart will just decoy a few seconds before you come out of invisibily or take cover. Any well played lokis is always invisible and the recasting is irrelevant

Problem with that it alerts all enemies, which defeats the point of being stealthy since you no longer can perform stealth kills. Sure, they are only good for getting stealth multipliers, but having to deal with a lock down cause an enemy somewhere decided to trigger an alarm just breaks the flow. Also Decoy seems to alert enemies in adjacent rooms, which makes it really annoying if you wanna be a stealthy as possible. A nice addition would be if you could just deactivate the decoy by either point at it and activating the skill again, or holding the button down to deactivate it, kinda like Ivara shooting off her special arrows.

[Rex13568]

On 8/8/2016 at 0:17 AM, FINNSTAR7 said:

Btw, Loki should NOT be the fastest frame in the game, it doesn't make sense for him to be when there are frames like Volt and Banshee...His speed needs to decrease to something closer to 1.1 or 1.15, while frames like those two mentioned above need an increase to something closer to 1.2 or 1.25

I don't see why he cannot be the the NEAR Fastest warframe(because nezha is actually faster) he is a tall super skinny dude so shouldn't he be fast?

and what would nerfing his speed bring to the party?

[FINNSTAR7]

5 minutes ago, Rex13568 said:

I don't see why he cannot be the the NEAR Fastest warframe(because nezha is actually faster) he is a tall super skinny dude so shouldn't he be fast?

and what would nerfing his speed bring to the party?

Nezha isn't faster? He isn't the second fastest.

And I didnt say he shouldn't be fast, I just said it doesn't make sense for him to be THE fastest. There are other frames much more suited for that position, both gameplay-wise and logic-wise.

Edited August 10, 2016 by FINNSTAR7

[Rex13568]

Just now, FINNSTAR7 said:

Nezha isn't faster? He isn't the second fastest.

And I didnt say he shouldn't be fast, I just said it doesn't make sense for him to be THE fastest. There are other frames much more suited for that position, both gameplay wise and logic wise.

Nezha can be much faster while slideing with maglev and all sprint mods and aura x8 in a raid with volt and zefper giving speed boost +red veil speed boost jumping thru a wormhole with escape volsity 

(iforgotssomestuffs)

[FINNSTAR7]

2 minutes ago, Rex13568 said:

Nezha can be much faster while slideing with maglev and all sprint mods and aura x8 in a raid with volt and zefper giving speed boost +red veil speed boost jumping thru a wormhole with escape volsity 

(iforgotssomestuffs)

All that stuff could also be applied to Loki...so that doesn't make Nezha faster -_-

Edited August 10, 2016 by FINNSTAR7

[Rex13568]

Just now, FINNSTAR7 said:

All that stuff could also be applied to Loki so that doesn't make Nezha faster -_-

nezha has a passive slide bonus

[FINNSTAR7]

6 minutes ago, Rex13568 said:

nezha has a passive slide bonus

But the bonus doesn't increase slide speed, it increases distance, they're a little different. Regardless, sprinting is still a better method of traveling than sliding in the long run, so comparing the two is kinda pointless.

Anyway, Loki either needs a sprint speed reduction or some other frames need to have the same speed as him, or both.

Edited August 10, 2016 by FINNSTAR7

[----Fenrir----]

Decoy too Op, got it. What's next? A thread complaining of Mirages "Slight of Hand" being too OP? Sorry, but I have a hard time taking the opinion of someone seriously who believes that Decoy is in any way shape or form OP. That skill is bordering on useless. There are a few niche uses that prevent it from being totally useless but most of those require so much planing and setting up that it's usually not worth bothering with Decoy in most cases.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 8/5/2016 at 11:32 PM, Sasquatch180 said:

he has never been a bad pick,

no, no, noooope.

Back in the day people were confused about him and hated him. He was my first frame and i had to defend him thoroughly back then.

He "became good" once the game further range mods

Plus the complain that always exist about decoy is about is one-hit dead on higher levels and doesnt draw in that many people.

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

On 06/08/2016 at 4:32 AM, Sasquatch180 said:

Loki has always been a pretty decent / great frame - he is based purely around utility as opposed to the general mixes of most frames, and his kit just synergizes incredibly well. 

But personally I've always thought Loki was a bit too good - he has never been a bad pick, he is always among the highest played Warframes, and his due to the mechanics of his kit he is able to fairly easily make a room of enemies pretty much useless.

Radial Disarm for example jams an enemy's gun for as long as they're alive, turning them into a melee unit that slowly runs up to enemies to do a little swing - which is a problem because all of their enemies can walk faster than them, and also have much greater forms of movement at the drop of a hat.

A single Radial Disarm can make a large group (or a near roomful with a Stretch mod) of enemies nearly useless, and is completely safe when doing so due to his Invisibility. 

And when you factor in Decoy you'll have situations where a group of melee enemies just swarm the Decoy for a ludicrously long time before it either dies or runs out, which is plenty enough time for Loki and friends to either get away or blow them to smithereens.

 

I think what Loki needs is a big nerf to Radial Disarm and Decoy - add in a Duration for how long their effects last. 

What this would mean is that every enemy hit by Radial Disarm would have a Duration where they'll be stuck as a melee unit, and once that duration runs out they "fix" their gun and become ranged again.

And enemies distracted by Decoy will only be distracted for a few seconds before realizing they're shooting a hologram, and will turn their attention back to other hostile units.
f

Just no. I can't think of any reason why Decoy needs a nerf. It has very low HP meaning that in any content over level 30 it is more or less one-shotted. The only real uses for it because of this (for me at least) is to switch teleport through lasers etc in spy missions and for distracting Vay Hek in LoR. It can be used to get away from the enemy but really you shouldn't have to rely on this, especially seen as you can go invisible. As for Radial Disarm, it is the only thing Loki can bring to team play that will give you a significant advantage, yes it disarms everything in a 50 metre radius and with the aug makes them fight each other for a few seconds, but you're going on like it disarms the entire tileset. It has a 50 meter range at 250% range not that much really when you think molecular prime can travel for 90 meters. And when disarmed it's not like the enemies come sprinting directly at you, without bothering to take any cover at all, oh wait yeah they do.

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

On 8/8/2016 at 10:27 PM, Chipputer said:

You said he didn't bring anything to the party. You were wrong.

Actually,I'm proving a point.

 

It is funny,how Loki is the "Super Dubber Master race op fudgemaster Better then all other warframes" Til, the idea of a nerf comes his way. Then,the tune changes very quickly.

 

 

[DatDarkOne]

35 minutes ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

Actually,I'm proving a point.

 

It is funny,how Loki is the "Super Dubber Master race op fudgemaster Better then all other warframes" Til, the idea of a nerf comes his way. Then,the tune changes very quickly.

 

 

Ok.  I'll admit.  That's funny.  Then again I always thought the whole "Master Race"  BS was/is stupid. 

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Ok.  I'll admit.  That's funny.  Then again I always thought the whole "Master Race"  BS was/is stupid. 

Not gonna happen.

They are like any other Metaheads.

It is ok as long as their overpowered thing is always overpowered.But,If anyone else is that is bad.Because Loki takes skill,you know turning invis and spaming disarm and all.

 

[DatDarkOne]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

It is ok as long as their overpowered thing is always overpowered.But,If anyone else is that is bad.Because Loki takes skill,you know turning invis and spaming disarm and all.

Don't get me wrong.  I dislike the master race stuff, but I don't think Loki is OP.   Overhyped, but not OP.  I just don't think Loki should be nerfed when all things are considered. 

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

Don't get me wrong.  I dislike the master race stuff, but I don't think Loki is OP.   Overhyped, but not OP.  I just don't think Loki should be nerfed when all things are considered. 

I agree with ya. But, as I said. I find It funny.

[Chipputer]

5 hours ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

Actually,I'm proving a point.

 

It is funny,how Loki is the "Super Dubber Master race op fudgemaster Better then all other warframes" Til, the idea of a nerf comes his way. Then,the tune changes very quickly.

 

 

You weren't proving a point at all, though. You said something that was wrong and you were told that you were wrong.

Of course nerfing Loki would probably reduce his, "master race" capabilities. Of course people would defend their favorite frame whenever it's discussed. Only one of his powers is even close to being overpowered (radial disarm), and you could easily fix that by making it duration based or making number of enemies affected by it be increased with power strength.

Like, seriously, the only thing that you're saying to anybody who takes two seconds to think about it is, "I'm trying to save face by pretending to say something completely different than I said before."

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

37 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

You weren't proving a point at all, though. You said something that was wrong and you were told that you were wrong.

Of course nerfing Loki would probably reduce his, "master race" capabilities. Of course people would defend their favorite frame whenever it's discussed. Only one of his powers is even close to being overpowered (radial disarm), and you could easily fix that by making it duration based or making number of enemies affected by it be increased with power strength.

Like, seriously, the only thing that you're saying to anybody who takes two seconds to think about it is, "I'm trying to save face by pretending to say something completely different than I said before."

I still think Loki is useless don't get me wrong.

 

But,he is the Lee Sin of Warframe. I know people don't want to hear it but it is true. He is a super Aggressive try-hard fan base. Who Oddly enough usually seem to be the backers of a lot of nerfs for other Frames.

I can think something is useless and still say his fan base try to protect em. it is possible.

 

I know it is hard for you loki lovers to understand that. You know somehow being better then Nyx,Ash,Limbo at everything yet somehow balanced. I mean you all are clearly begging for him to be nerfed so he will take more skill to play.B)

[PoobahTheGrand]

Invisibility: Not OP. Simply bumping into the enemy removed the dmg multiplier and the frame itself is so squishy a stray bullet  or strike will oneshot you.

Decoy: At some point can be killed by a pleb bullet on steroids by these terribly scaled enemies against this no scaling at all ability.

Switch Teleport: Useless and sometimes throws you off. As squishy as he is why would anyone teleport themselves in the middle of a mob.

Radial Disarm: Enemies can still fight back. More of their friends with guns will spawn anyway. Why does it matter if it gets nerfed so that it uses duration? Lokis already build for high duration so they could get the energy needed to spam it again.

 

Loki OP? I think not. And I bet that these nerf suggestions will end the see the light of day. Nyx will be buffed before Lokis augment gets nerfed

[(PSN)B_Psycho2]

6 hours ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

I still think Loki is useless don't get me wrong. 1.

 

But,he is the Lee Sin of Warframe. I know people don't want to hear it but it is true. He is a super Aggressive try-hard fan base. Who Oddly enough usually seem to be the backers of a lot of nerfs for other Frames. 2.

I can think something is useless and still say his fan base try to protect em. it is possible. 3.

 

I know it is hard for you loki lovers to understand that. You know somehow being better then Nyx,Ash,Limbo at everything yet somehow balanced. I mean you all are clearly begging for him to be nerfed so he will take more skill to play.B) 4.

1. Of course he's not.

2. Loki Masterrace is a thing because he's good. But he's in no way OP. Also, where did you get this information of "Loki Lovers" wanting to nerf the other frames?

3. Decoy is useless in endgame unless you're trying to distract enemies for about a second. Which Titania's lamplighter will do better because it doesn't die in one second, and actually damages enemies. Also, Saryn's molt does it better. 

4. Nyx needs a buff (but Loki isn't better than her at everything), Loki isn't better than Ash at everything, nor Limbo at everything. 

Nyx can turn the ground into a war zone for over 40 Seconds (with mods), while Loki can only make a twelve-second bar room brawl WITH AN AUGMENT.

Ash can wipe the floor with enemies and all Loki does is distract them.

Limbo can prevent sortie defense targets from dying at all. Ever.  He can also become invulnerable. He can render enemies useless. 

 

[Absolonium]

You have a warframe with 65 Armor, 75 base health and shield (225 at max rank), no damaging abilities, and you want to NERF him? Utility is the only thing he can offer, no damage, just crowd control that really wouldn't stop a high level enemy from wild swinging at you even with the augment, a decoy that requires placement to use effectively and an invisibility (which is albeit a pretty good one especially with the mod). His survivability comes form his skills, man. I'm no master race player. But I find loki enjoyable and balanced enough because of the tradeoffs in his kit which, in turn, makes him fun.

[Azamagon]

The problem about Loki, for me, is how some of his abilities are superstrong (Disarm, Invis) while some are rather weak and niche (Decoy, Switch). Well, that "power distribution" issue probably goes for most Warframes, but anywho.
Another problem is how all powers pretty much ignore Power Strength. This is a problem for most of the "best" Warframes, having a clear dumpstat removes the whole point of Corrupted mods' intention. I mean, it is fine for a 'frame to have a stat which is worse than the others, but not which is completely useless (as Strength is for Loki). This is trickier to fix for him though, so I'll ignore that part for now.

What I'd start with is to spread out the power of all 4 skills, so all 4 seem meaningful.

Decoy - Make it aggro better (aggro range affected by Power Range), increase its health a bit (make it have a short "Iron Skin"-absorbtion treatment perhaps?) make it stagger enemies in a medium area upon death/unsummon, and make recasting unsummon rather than recast (for stealthreasons + for giving him a snap CC tool).

Invisibility - Make it so quick movement when within a certain radius to enemies makes him more "revealing". Sprinting, bulletjumping etc, should cause some minor suspicion to enemies so they wanna search him out. This radius should be inversely affected by Power Range (so more Range = less "detection" radius).

Switch Teleport - The switched target, if an enemy, should have a (shortened?) Radiation proc on it and make that target more vulnerable to damage. When switched with allies, it could grant a brief protective coating (reduces griefing if anythhing), and this coating is granted for Loki as well, whomever he switches with. Enemy vulnerability and ally/Loki protection potencies are affected by Power Strength.
Safeguard Switch augment is now Irradiating Switch: The radiation-proc on the main target is now enemy-contagious: An enemy attacking the Rad-proc'd enemy ALSO gets a contagious Rad-proc on it. This can spread to max 1/2/3/4 enemies per Switch Teleport-cast.
^ More sane version of Irradiating Disarm

Radial Disarm - Enemies disarmed have a quick jamming animation on them (a la Shooting Gallery) and quickly holster their weapon (their weapon glowing of your energy colour) and draw their melee weapon. This disarming now has a duration. When duration expires, the weapon stops glowing, and then they equip their ranged weapon again. Recasting it on enemies who are already disarmed no longer re-stuns them, but it does extend their disarming duration. (This loss of stunning is why Decoy got its stagger)
Irradiating Disarm augment is now something else, something not as insanely powerful. What that is though, I dunno.

Just my 2 plat.

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

On 8/12/2016 at 9:47 AM, Azamagon said:

The problem about Loki, for me, is how some of his abilities are superstrong (Disarm, Invis) while some are rather weak and niche (Decoy, Switch). Well, that "power distribution" issue probably goes for most Warframes, but anywho.
Another problem is how all powers pretty much ignore Power Strength. This is a problem for most of the "best" Warframes, having a clear dumpstat removes the whole point of Corrupted mods' intention. I mean, it is fine for a 'frame to have a stat which is worse than the others, but not which is completely useless (as Strength is for Loki). This is trickier to fix for him though, so I'll ignore that part for now.

What I'd start with is to spread out the power of all 4 skills, so all 4 seem meaningful.

Decoy - Make it aggro better (aggro range affected by Power Range), increase its health a bit (make it have a short "Iron Skin"-absorbtion treatment perhaps?) make it stagger enemies in a medium area upon death/unsummon, and make recasting unsummon rather than recast (for stealthreasons + for giving him a snap CC tool).

Invisibility - Make it so quick movement when within a certain radius to enemies makes him more "revealing". Sprinting, bulletjumping etc, should cause some minor suspicion to enemies so they wanna search him out. This radius should be inversely affected by Power Range (so more Range = less "detection" radius).

Switch Teleport - The switched target, if an enemy, should have a (shortened?) Radiation proc on it and make that target more vulnerable to damage. When switched with allies, it could grant a brief protective coating (reduces griefing if anythhing), and this coating is granted for Loki as well, whomever he switches with. Enemy vulnerability and ally/Loki protection potencies are affected by Power Strength.
Safeguard Switch augment is now Irradiating Switch: The radiation-proc on the main target is now enemy-contagious: An enemy attacking the Rad-proc'd enemy ALSO gets a contagious Rad-proc on it. This can spread to max 1/2/3/4 enemies per Switch Teleport-cast.
^ More sane version of Irradiating Disarm

Radial Disarm - Enemies disarmed have a quick jamming animation on them (a la Shooting Gallery) and quickly holster their weapon (their weapon glowing of your energy colour) and draw their melee weapon. This disarming now has a duration. When duration expires, the weapon stops glowing, and then they equip their ranged weapon again. Recasting it on enemies who are already disarmed no longer re-stuns them, but it does extend their disarming duration. (This loss of stunning is why Decoy got its stagger)
Irradiating Disarm augment is now something else, something not as insanely powerful. What that is though, I dunno.

Just my 2 plat.

Sounds.Balanced.

[WinterishRope]

Disarm is really only OP against the grineer. Against 2/4 factions you're dealing with nullifiers that hide large portions of enemies from being disarmed. Then even if you disarm a whole room there are more enemies spawning with their guns and the melee damage from the disarmed enemies can still one shot loki . If anything playing loki requires you to be precise and aware in order to avoid getting killed. I usually run a enemy sense mod on him just so i'm more cautious of my surroundings.

If you're complaining about irradiating disarm then that could be understood as it basically makes nyx irrelevant against everything but the infested. If anything we should look into buffing her .  

[WinterishRope]

You can't even run a loki properly until you've obtained many corrupted mods and have higher lvl weapons. I don't see the problem with the frame. If anything he's one of the most balanced frames to play

[Gurpgork]

8 hours ago, WinterishRope said:

Disarm is really only OP against the grineer. Against 2/4 factions you're dealing with nullifiers that hide large portions of enemies from being disarmed.

If an ability is overpowered without Nullifiers, then it's overpowered. If an ability is only balanced because Nullifiers are a thing, then it's okay for an ability to do literally anything as long as Nullifiers stop it. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Gurpgork