BLADESTORM: Does it really NEED to Change?

[Rakosta_Kai]

I'm seeing alot of cognitive dissonance, and loaded arguments (and numbers) being tossed around in support of and opposed to Bladestorm changes.

The long and short of it is that the skill receives alot of abuse currently and something about the mechanic around it needs to change.

I don't care about interactivity as it isn't any more or less interactive than most of the room area nukes (while also being a lot slower in the process). 

I don't care about P4TW arguments because there isn't a frame that doesn't suffer from it (first beams, then motes... pots meet kettles, etc)

In my opinion, DE needs to simply address the pain points of the skill for players. 

Alternately, if they want to actually nerf it while giving Ash players the other half of what they asked for more than a year ago in the first place (utility)... Fine by me.

I'd happily take a scaled down BS in conjunction with an Ivara/Vauban style #1 loaded with utility abilities all day.  

[RistN]

Blade storm is a kind of wonder.It is a powerful ult that is still powerful with only 140% power strength and max efficiency,max range and it gains from mod Body count....I'm really wondering why they did not destroy Ash Ult already.On my great sarrow of course.

[motorfirebox]

4 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

If they nerf this, they also need to nerf Saryn, Excalibur, Frost, Loki, Ember, Hydros, Banshee, and every other frame with AoE abilities. Just remove AoE abilities from every warframe. Naturally, you'll lose most of your player base, but you'll satisfy the minority upset over their kill statistics.

The only problems I've seen with Blade Storm have been affinity sharing and marked enemies being invulnerable to damage from other players.

They already have nerfed many of those, and those that haven't been nerfed aren't nearly as powerful as Ash.

[Grumpy]

1 hour ago, AlendasNaro said:

Why it should be changed?:

Because people are lazy and only press 4.

Because in general. That can massively kill your enemies can kill your allies. [Take a look at those Radiation Hazard missions. Oh Ash how you are so hated]

and there is a lot of reasons already mentioned earlier.

People can be lazy with any class, trust me.  I'm surprised no one has asked for a nerf on Limbo or Hydroid since they seem to sink or go into the void and do nothing in quite a few games I've been in.  And shared affinity in the best affinity you an get, better than the hallway chasers who think their few kills is going to do something while we're loosing a match.  And once it's changed people will just complain about another class anyway.  Or they'll bump into someone who modded the heck out of it only to call it OP again.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

If there's something strange

in your neighborhood

Who ya gonna call?

ASH-BUSTERS

 

Courtesy of ghostbusters

 

*Admit it guys, if it wasn't for ASH-Busters a lot of you would have lost the mission

** Vote for ASH for the presidency

 

 

[xPerplexing]

47 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

People can be lazy with any class, trust me.  I'm surprised no one has asked for a nerf on Limbo or Hydroid since they seem to sink or go into the void and do nothing in quite a few games I've been in.  And shared affinity in the best affinity you an get, better than the hallway chasers who think their few kills is going to do something while we're loosing a match.  And once it's changed people will just complain about another class anyway.  Or they'll bump into someone who modded the heck out of it only to call it OP again.

True but this is Ash we're talking about. The most talked about warframe in the game. The Real 'Greedy Mag'.  

 

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Just now, (XB1)Oussii said:

If there's something strange

in your neighborhood

Who ya gonna call?

ASH-BUSTERS

 

Courtesy of ghostbusters

 

*Admit it guys, if it wasn't for ASH-Busters a lot of you would have lost the mission

** Vote for ASH for the presidency

 

 

Actually in the sortie today my first group lost because of the Ash in that defense sortie because he did nothing but spam BS which his current state encourages far too much.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

Just now, Eldritchkitty said:

Actually in the sortie today my first group lost because of the Ash in that defense sortie because he did nothing but spam BS which his current state encourages far too much.

Then your group with all my respect S****

I do defense in sortie with 2 other friends, Frost for the bubble, Spova to speed things up and not to spend a lot of time, and i play Ash,

Mission done in less than 5 min.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Just now, (XB1)Oussii said:

Then your group with all my respect S****

I do defense in sortie with 2 other friends, Frost for the bubble, Spova to speed things up and not to spend a lot of time, and i play Ash,

Mission done in less than 5 min.

No because the Ash kept team killing.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

Just now, Eldritchkitty said:

No because the Ash kept team killing.

Then something is wrong in your squad, maybe you should consider joining a game with me if you have an access to a console, then you could see for yourself

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Just now, (XB1)Oussii said:

Then something is wrong in your squad, maybe you should consider joining a game with me if you have an access to a console, then you could see for yourself

Have you actually played a sortie? And no I have no interest in anything but PC.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

Did i ever played sortie?

Well my friend maybe i am one of the lucky guys who got a legendary core

I do sortie twice a day, never missed one

One time with my friends and one time to help other players

You Breath to live, i play sortie to live since there is nothing else to do in the game other than sortie and waiting for a new upgrade

[Eldritchsqueaker]

You.. can't do sorties twice a day they're one a day things. None of what you said has anything to do with the Ash spamming bladestorm and doing nothing else and teamkilling allies while never actually doing much to save the operative we were protecting, it wasn't the squad, it was the Ash.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

2 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

You.. can't do sorties twice a day they're one a day things. None of what you said has anything to do with the Ash spamming bladestorm and doing nothing else and teamkilling allies while never actually doing much to save the operative we were protecting, it wasn't the squad, it was the Ash.

Oh yes my dear Friend, you can do sorties as much as you want, you only get the reward and credits once, but you can still do it as much as you want.

and when it's a defense, or a survival, i only use Ash.

If i am allowed i can write the name of the players with whom i do it more than once. (is it against the rules to mention a friend that you always play with, just as reference and not in a bad way)?

[xPerplexing]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

Oh yes my dear Friend, you can do sorties as much as you want, you only get the reward and credits once, but you can still do it as much as you want.

and when it's a defense, or a survival, i only use Ash.

If i am allowed i can write the name of the players with whom i do it more than once. (is it against the rules to mention a friend that you always play with, just as reference and not in a bad way)?

The only reason why you're able to do the sorties more than once is because you dont have SOTR yet. When that drops, you wouldnt be able to do them again. Plus if you're doing the sorties defense or survival that have radiation hazard with a squad that has an Ash, who is the one to ruin the mission? The Ash because he's still using bladestorm and if he's hit with radiation, he'll team kill the squad in range. Doesn't matter how you do the sorties. The fact that you have an Ash in your squad (and i mean in general) will ruins the experience for a lot of people just because that person decides to using bladestorm. 

[Aenris]

"Let us calmly, in the manner of mature adults, assess the situation."
Fair enough.

"WAAAA! Ash-Hole stole all my killz! Mommy! I'm taking my Energy Vampire and going Home!"
...like adults you said? Ok, it is not like everybody are all whiny players that only wants to kill and ash steals this glory from them. Sometimes it is annoying tho, because those energy vampire aren't used on the most close enemy to the team, mostly because some random Ash decided to spam 4 non-stop

"Its FUN! (Isnt this still important)"
Fun? welll, indeed it's important, but this "fun" might not be for everyone. I don't find "fun" jumping into a long cinematic for a couple of seconds doing nothing (and those seconds may be a lot depending on the number of enemies) Compared to other Ultimate abilities that are a bit more interacting, or only has a couple of seconds casting, Ash's Bladestorm isn't "Fun" to me. Still, it doesn't have to appeal me. it should appeal everyone, or the majority, or at least Ash players. not sure what to think here because something "fun" it's a bit ambiguous

"Its about the only efficient room nuker we've got left (seriously, this is more true every day)"
I would say DE thinks that room nukers aren't ok. At least single room nukers, because skill combos like Nova's, Frost's and Saryn's ults combined can get the job done. Throw a Trinity in there with vampire and the game suddenly is a bit more fun than just waiting for a cutscene.

"It fits Ash's role as an Assassin in the fast paced, horde mode world of Warframe (Dishonored this aint, and thats ok)"
I agree with that, and still, i think he can do a bit better, don't you think? There's space for improvement for his entire skillset and specially his ult. Why not having a bit more of synergy? why not have more control over who the clones attack? why not having the option to stop the attack if you need to revive a teammate or protect an objetive? Change doesn't have to be bad.

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Arandabido

[Nox_Terminus]

The main issue with Bladestorm is that unlike every other Ult it auto-kills entire rooms and scales near infinitely if you use Covert Lethality. For example World on Fire doesn't scale very high, and it only hits a certain number of enemies per tick, not all enemies in range, and even when it does hit it isn't an automatic kill.

 

On 8/7/2016 at 4:13 PM, Misgenesis said:

Maim requires setup and at higher levels its harder and youre vulnerable

Additionally Maim doesn't automatically kill enemies around typical endgame levels. It just deals a 150 damage bleed proc which acts as a basic stun. Honestly Equinox is pretty solid, even though her mend ability seems rather weak.

[Tizodd]

To the op, you mentioned how fun Bladestorm is a couple of times.  Sure it's fun...but it's the same kind of fun a child gets from killing ants with a magnifying glass.  It's an OP ability...plain and simple.

In a co-op game like Warframe, an ability like Bladestorm tends to kill fun for your teammates.  I don't even use Ash anymore because I'm not selfish and I want others to enjoy themselves.  I really wish everyone would stop using him until Bladestorm gets toned down tbh.

But kids just love killing ants...

[MindHoney]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

If there's something strange

in your neighborhood

Who ya gonna call?

ASH-BUSTERS

 

Courtesy of ghostbusters

 

*Admit it guys, if it wasn't for ASH-Busters a lot of you would have lost the mission

** Vote for ASH for the presidency

 

 

My problem is not with the players or the ability, but what that ability dose to me well in playing.  When an enemy turns red I just fell like S#&$, he stole my kill. And then that happens over and over Agen for the next 20 mins. It rely wares me down. If you want a frame that can give you power over the ants we call enemies that's your business. My problem comes when it starts effecting me. The reason so many people are calling for a rework is because we're sick of ash as he is. I haven't played with an ash since March, because I leave any group with a Radom ash. I'm at that point with the frame.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

current bladestorm = complete antithesis of fun (and actual gameplay) imo.

it's insanely boring to use yourself and negatively affects other players enjoyment of the game, too. it's obviously a relic from a time when energy wasn't as abundant as it is nowadays (which is another problem in itself).

do change it. change ash as a whole, he could use a rework (make his smoke bomb an actual smoke bomb while you're at it eg).

Edited August 9, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[eprstt]

9 hours ago, MindHoney said:

There are 6 pages that you missed that highlight blade storms problems better then i can. Read thoughs and if you still have no idea then we can talk.

I cant see any sence to read another 6-8 pages about "ash is bad".

anyway. we have a similar point in real life. this is people's "reproduction". one type of move (button down - button up), but so many variations. You have to choose position, amplitude, rhythm, direction (or directions). You can do that "on auto", but... doesnt that fun or satisfaction (or both)?

ahh... nevermind. nerf will be anyway. why I have to opposite by my opinion to weak players? sorry for my english - it bad.

and that: "he stole my kil". LOL. man, any nerf CANT remove from frames of another player usefull (or just R10) mods. Saryn, Banshi, Equnox, ets. easy take out "marked targets". Inaros even harder at that point ;)

Edited August 9, 2016 by eprstt

[Weltraumfred]

Bladestorm is OP in low to mid level content, because of the combination of invulnerability AND highly efficient room-clearing.

In high Level content, where enemies become resistant to Ash's BS, it becomes highly annoying. Because Ash will grant the enemies invulnerability frames.

When I leveled Ash (Pime) for the tasty, tasty mastery points, I actually felt slightly guilty when Bladestorming enemy mobs and tried not to trigger the power near other friendlies. Also, it was booooooring.  

Bladestorm needs to be replaced with something more interactive and less broken.

[Tizodd]

7 hours ago, Nox_Terminus said:

Additionally Maim doesn't automatically kill enemies around typical endgame levels. It just deals a 150 damage bleed proc which acts as a basic stun. Honestly Equinox is pretty solid, even though her mend ability seems rather weak.

I think the person you quoted was referring to releasing Maim's nuke after accumulating kills.  It can instantly clear rooms as well; and it scales pretty well because it's based on enemy hp.  I can't put Maim up there with Bladestorm though, because Maim does require some build-up for it to be a powerful nuke.  Maim also doesn't render Equinox invincible.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Tizodd

[Nox_Terminus]

8 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

I think the person you quoted was referring to releasing Maim's nuke after accumulating kills.  It can instantly clear rooms as well; and it scales pretty well because it's based on enemy hp.  I can't put Maim up there with Bladestorm though, because Maim does require some build-up for it to be a powerful nuke.  Maim also doesn't render Equinox invincible.

Also Maim's nuke doesn't apply damage evenly to enemies in range, and the damage falls off with range.

[bWild]

8 hours ago, Eldritchkitty said:

You.. can't do sorties twice a day they're one a day things. None of what you said has anything to do with the Ash spamming bladestorm and doing nothing else and teamkilling allies while never actually doing much to save the operative we were protecting, it wasn't the squad, it was the Ash.

It always depends what this ash is spect for. If he is spect for bladestorm his job is basically to kill the enemy while the rest of the team is protecting the operative. 1 CC, 1 Protect, 1 Damage, 1 Support is how you should opt for. If you don't get this together, then get energy plates and take the protection role to guarantee the mission success.

Ash is indeed a frame who can protect the operative with smoke augment but Frost can do this aswell and Limbo is basically your best option there. But a Bladestorm Ash is a killing machine who should better clear the waves fast to do the job.

Edited August 9, 2016 by bWild