Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Rebellis]

He's much better and a pretty decent tank frame now.

His SoS pull more aggro away so you're not getting shot as much, and being able to heal them means the damage reduction is persistent. You're not left vulnerable like before when their duration timer ran out each and every time.

[Turtlemancer]

Maybe make it where if you kill something with soul punch it gives you a shade?

[Gurpgork]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

I was under the impression that before the rework, health orbs dropped independently and were not part of the enemies drop table.

Old Desecrate had a 60% chance to produce a health orb, and if it did this successfully, it had a 90% chance to reroll the loot table. 

[F4talFr4me]

Looks like they released Nekros Prime right now. no changes and community still ignored. BOYCOTT TIME!

[Ar0ndight]

We need DE to look at this thread really.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Ar0ndight

[CaustiCat]

Soo...Nekros Prime just got released without any changes made to him and SOTD. Fanboys are already spending their parents money (joke) and what do you guys think about it ? 

It all feels kinda "cheap" this time. With each new Prime we had a nice trailer week or so before the release to tease us, PBR to existing non-prime version of warframes and weapons and now all we got was a bunch of rather questionable changes to Nekros before he got primed. 

[Ar0ndight]

Sadly

Every.

Single.

Rework.

since Excal and Frost is left with issues. Nekros is the latest offense. We need DE to look at this.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Ar0ndight
previously offending

[F4talFr4me]

8 minutes ago, Ar0ndight said:

I'm so done with this. I'm starting to regret all the money I invested in Warframe because I always thought I was supporting devs that care about our feedback. It's not the case.

Every.

Single.

Rework.

since Excal and Frost is left half way done. Nekros is the latest offense. I'm not giving $80 to a company that ignores feedback. That would mean I'm supporting their practice.

I've tried PMing Rebecca, making huge text walls explaining the issues in a polite way, posting in feedback threads, nothing. I'm never getting a reaction. I'm not asking for absurd buffs, cheaper formas, free cosmetics or anything I'm just asking for DE to finish what they start and listen to feedback. That's too much to ask apparently. If I can't expect that from DE I'm not giving them one more $.

I will keep playing. but no more money from me till i see changes. no nekros prime. no minor spending. nothing.

[ZoneDymo]

So the new trailer is out and its fantastic but also a tad misleading.

You see nekros just spawn a legion of zombies which really does not look anything like that in the game, but I get it, it works well for this trailer.

However, it does make me think of an addition to Nekros.

 

Currently I feel his soul punch, however cool it may seem in the trailer, is one of the most worthless 1st abilities in the game.

So how about we grab some inspiration from the trailer and add to soulpunch the chance that if the target is killed by it, the target returns as a zombie to either temporary help out Nekros (like one of those sand creatures for Inaros his second ability) or for as long as it lives.

I would give a nice little boost and game mechanic (namely hurting an enemy enough but not killing them so you can finish them off with the soul punch) to the ability 

 

[Cradicias]

This augment... well, it doesn't work well anymore now that Shadows of the Dead spawns less Shadows. Think it needs a buff, maybe to about 10% damage reduction per shadow? Bringing it up from its current 42% at max to 70%. If you really want to be nice to players, bring it up to 14% per shadow (or 98% max). That way, the brief period they are alive, they give Nekros very good damage protection.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

I'm just not sure what they were thinking. 

[Flareux]

That is actually a really goddamn good idea! I like it!

Still want those zombie walking animations on my shadows though...

[Zeyez]

you are forgetting something:

the augment itself is now affected by power strenght since the Shadow of the death change, so, you can adjust your power strenght to 234% and get theses 14% damage reduction per shadow that you are asking for, neither by using Growing Power aura, Energy Conversion, Transient Fortitude...

[CaustiCat]

Yeah it's all slowly becoming the next "No Man's Sky". Big hopes and promises are turning into flops lately.

I've been around for a long time and was always happy to support this game with my money at least once or twice a month. But since Second Dream update I did not had a single reason give DE my money.

I even wanted to get Targis Prime armor but NOPE, even though so many people asked for a separate pack after Frost prime vault turned out to be a massive failure for players who already owned the frame and weapons, DE stated that they will "take a loot into it" in the future prime vault's. Feedback was given, people agreed that separate prime accessory pack is a good idea and what happened ? Of course they released everything in single pack again.

People were really pissed off. I was too, but now I'm happy it turned out this way since I got myself brand new game for the money I was saving for Targis Prime armor. And DE is still assuring me that it was a good decision of mine :) 

[Cradicias]

37 minutes ago, Zeyez said:

you are forgetting something:

the augment itself is now affected by power strenght since the Shadow of the death change, so, you can adjust your power strenght to 234% and get theses 14% damage reduction per shadow that you are asking for, neither by using Growing Power aura, Energy Conversion, Transient Fortitude...

Erm.. No, it's damage reduction per shadow. Not affected by power strength, but by number of Shadows. As we can only get a max of 7 shadows, it's capped currently at 42%

Edit: After checking on the wiki, I correct myself. Apparently, that is the case, but, mod doesn't make that apparent. Maybe fix the description? (As in say 6% affected by Power Strength).

Edited August 23, 2016 by Cradicias

[Zeyez]

that's an little suggestion to the made

like what's happen with other augments, like Atlas's ore gaze and equinox's peaceful provocation, that can be affected until 200% power strenght

[Hixlysss]

As a whole i'd like to see nekros get a complete and total overhaul. His current setup is better than before, but he can be done up MUCH better. I would like to see him more onpar with what we saw in the trailer, the zombie followers with smoke around their feet, yes please.
 

But I have some other ideas to mix in with that. What if his shadows of the dead turned corpses around him into his minions, rather than summoning out what ever he had killed? Combine this with his soul punch and desecrate being able to 'store' bodies for later use as minions, but shadows of the dead would prioritize the corpses. On top of that, I'd honestly like to see more zombie like minions, like the trailer. So instead of just a copy of the enemy, perhaps a beefed up version with no weapon that runs up and mauls enemies, I mean nekros passive already needs him to be close to enemies to get health from them dieing, might as well make his big thing, summoning minions, more melee/close range focused.

Could go a step further and just combine desecrate and shadows of the dead and give him some new power. And his soul punch does need some work to be more useful, like a % chance to insta kill an enemy and desecrate them, it just feels...underpowered and useless.

[F4talFr4me]

That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the Souls of The Dead nerf to 7 mobs. so it wont happen. also DE shouldent have released Nekros Prime in such a terrible state. feel sorry for all them poor suckers who buy a weak prime.

Edited August 23, 2016 by F4talFr4me

[(PSN)salovel1991]

So with no word of any changes coming on glitches, abilities, or acknowledgement of our feedback. What reason would I want to buy PA? I have no way of remembering where the keys drop without writing them down. I do not have the will to farm this and I'm not paying 1000p for a set. 

[jeremy900]

So i did some testing with Shadows to determine if the changes were a buff or a nerf.

I used my super pet build for the testing which can be seen here:

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nekros/t_30_4430222231_1-1-10-6-3-5-12-5-9-13-2-3-34-8-5-49-0-10-411-4-10-479-7-10-615-9-5-726-6-5_49-8-1-7-13-7-6-11-411-8-12-8-726-8-479-7-34-14-615-5_0/en/1-0-12/

Since warframe builder still has the Nekros numbers pre change i looked at the stats to see how they compared to Shadows after the changes.

so before the changes the shadows would last about 76 seconds and had 510% strength bonus and 340% health bonus. Even though it says 24 in the build, there was a hard cap for 20 so I used that for my math.

(a little note: before the changes the shadows would not have armor. so all you had to go off of was shield and health.)

after the changes with the same build I can get the health decay down to 1.18% health per second, which translates to about a 84 second duration if they don't get hit at all.

the damage bonus after the changes comes to 610%, the health and shield bonuses both come to 440%. The downside is that you only have 7 shadows.

I took a picture so you can compare to the warframe builder stats.

http://i.imgur.com/nd4c4c3.jpg

 

now lets say you are fighting some mob pre change and you summon 20 shadows. Lets also say each of the enemies your shadows came from had 100 health and did 100 damage each time they fire.

if all 20 shadows fire at the same time they would do (20 x 100) x 510% dmg bonus = 10200 damage.

they would also have a combined total of (20 x 100) x 340% health bonus = 6800 health.

after the patch drops you want to try it out again. each enemy you copy still has 100 health and 100 damage.

if all 7 shadows fire at the same time they would do (7 x 100) x 610% dmg bonus = 4270 damage.

and they would have a combined total of (7 x 100) x 440% health bonus = 3080 health.

so while they did buff the bonuses, the drop in shadows far outweighs it.

of course my build is an extreme case but the numbers show that SotD will not be as strong as it was before.

 

 

The augment shield of shadows was/is very nice for making Nekros very tanky.

Before you needed 15 shadows to reach 90% damage reduction. If you had more shadows than that they would not add to this until other shadows got further away or died.

In other words you had a backup supply for your damage reduction.

now you need all 7 to reach 90% damage reduction and if one dies you drop about 12.8% damage reduction and need to summon them again.

 

Another little test I did was to see how adding damage to a shadow would affect its duration on top of health decay.

before the patch it was a flat 76.35 seconds

after patch with no damage its about 84 seconds.

lets say the shadow takes 5 damage a second and has 100 health.

100 / (5 + 1.18) = 16.18 seconds.

we could go even lower and say that it only takes 1 damage a second with 100 health.

100 / (1 + 1.18) = 45.87 seconds.

any sort of damage a shadow takes on top of health decay will drastically reduce its lifespan.

 

I made a little chart with this stuff in it so that its easier to read here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_QM6i0dJWZakX3Qgea-srR75bKjBmFqILd8B0pSR7hU/edit?usp=sharing

 

I feel its a harsh nerf and im sad to see my army go, I really hope there are changes for the better in the future.

 

[Dragon-V0942]

What's even better (<-sarcasm here) is that the reason for the nerf turns out to be false as the problem is still present
(pause for dramatic effect) ..... "performance!" But it turns out after some people actually tested, it turns out that it is still present.

So now might be a good time for DE to listen and realize that maybe it's best to revert SOTD back to what was before this change and instead figure out how to resolve this performance hiccup.  And it's not just Nekros, as they pointed out it is also Ash that has this performance problem with his ultimate as well.

Seriously these guys need to be noticed, they actually tested and went through with it, and you've done the math.  We have figured out that this is not right and this hasn't fixed anything.  It's time for DE to give you guys a freaking metal and actually open their ears to you. So pat yourself on the back, mate.  Because you're not alone, I wish for SOTD to be back the way it was as well.

[ZoneDymo]

29 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the Souls of The Dead nerf to 7 mobs. so it wont happen. also DE shouldent have released Nekros Prime in such a terrible state. feel sorry for all them poor suckers who buy a weak prime.

That is a good point, did not think of that.

The main problem with that is that I find this 7 spawn limit to be rather silly, it banks heavily on the idea that one would get into a game with 4 Nekros players all in the same place summing their Souls at the same time.....the odds of that happening....lets just say I think they are overestimating the power of their little rework in how populair it will make Nekros.

If they would be so ermm hardheaded in keeping to that I can see that that would indeed ruin this idea.

Well how about this, instead the reaped soul (that again only happens if you kill an enemy with it) restores some of the health of summoned souls?

Since the rework the souls are dying as soon as they are summoned and you have to recast to give them health back, however casting the first ability would be a cheaper way to keep the souls going for a bit longer.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

The pointless health decay is still my biggest gripe, they fixed on problem with him (needing to spam desecrate) only to open up a slew of others and they still have yet to say a word in it. I'm trying to be optimistic but it's getting harder and harder now that Nekros Prime is out and they still have yet to acknowledge the issues.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Eldritchkitty

[Tenedranox]

32 minutes ago, F4talFr4me said:

That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the Souls of The Dead nerf to 7 mobs. so it wont happen. also DE shouldent have released Nekros Prime in such a terrible state. feel sorry for all them poor suckers who buy a weak prime.

*Main Bone Daddy sitting here reading this*

O.o

My nekros is a demigod, but lets not discuss this here.

What id like to add to this conversation is the fact that all of the minions in the trailer are zombies, later on we see how those minions are created, by soul punch. So how about removing the ghost stuff of SotD completely and make it also a toggle. While active all enemies hit by soul punch would raise as zombies.

This would also work as another possibility for better focusing on certain enemies/types.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

4 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Old Desecrate had a 60% chance to produce a health orb, and if it did this successfully, it had a 90% chance to reroll the loot table. 

That makes sense as to why I was confused. Thank you for the correction.