No Cooperation in Co Op Missions

[Xzorn]

15 minutes ago, Brendael said:

Don't be this guy, folks.

LoL, that's what happens when your push 3 year vets, month old accounts and everyone in between into the same 5 min spam missions. Not my fault.

It's not fair that my speed deprives you of a relic role just as it's not fair that your speed deprives me of a roll every 3 missions. Waiting for more than the 45sec timer costs me a full run ever 3 runs. Hows that fair to me?

Despite what some say, the system is very much to blame.

[Brendael]

Just now, Xzorn said:

LoL, that's what happens when your push 3 year vets, month old accounts and everyone in between into the same 5 min spam missions. Not my fault.

It's not fair that my speed deprives you of a relic role just as it's not fair that your speed deprives me of a roll every 3 missions. Waiting for more than the 45sec timer costs me a full run ever 3 runs. Hows that fair to me?

Despite what some say, the system is very much to blame.

I disagree. You are just being a selfish prick. If you are so much better than the newbies just do everyone a favour and play solo. When you are in social situations it is common curtesy to take other people into consideration. An extra two or three minutes a mission is the cost of being social. 

 

It is also possible that people join the mission late - 3 or 4 resources behind and need to catch up through no fault of their own.

[Xzorn]

26 minutes ago, Brendael said:

I disagree. You are just being a selfish prick. If you are so much better than the newbies just do everyone a favour and play solo. When you are in social situations it is common curtesy to take other people into consideration. An extra two or three minutes a mission is the cost of being social. 

 

It is also possible that people join the mission late - 3 or 4 resources behind and need to catch up through no fault of their own.

If I run solo I get 1/4 the rolls, at best 1/2 from speed, which is even worse than waiting.... So no.

If they change this crappy group share thing; I'll be more than happy to go back to solo/clan only play. Believe me, I prefer it.

It's not voluntary for me to be in this situation so why should I express courtesy?

It's not like deciding to join a Sorties as a group. There is no solo Void just like there's no endless missions.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Xzorn

[Duhno]

The problem is them trying to apply same system to all mission types. Did you ever have a problem filling up in Defense? While people sometimes do change MD to an impromptu Extermination, in my experience, it is rare and system mostly works. Even Survivals are usually ok. Rest of mission types can and often do become complete mess. Capture target escaping because everybody is obsessed with 10/10. Blitzing Sabotage and then having to backtrack. Trying to rush vaults or jails and failing.

Behaviour isn't set by game mechanics. It is however encouraged or discouraged by it.

Then there's discrepancy between prime and ducat farming. Of course we want to maximize efficiency; with both but specially with the latter. We're going to run Liths and Mesos for ducats, why wouldn't we?. Relics are easier to come by, missions are mostly done on auto-pilot and payoff is the same. So we end up with groups where couple of people are ... shall we say less tileset savvy, and one or two are meditating at extract.

This I feel is the only change really needed. Somehow decouple prime and ducat farming. Or better said, add an additional source of ducats where tier matters so we can chose higher difficulty for chance of better rewards. Because all in all, with few tweaks and fixes, prime farm 2.0 is an improvement. Would be awesome if mechanics could be diversified to suite different mission types better but I do realize that's not a simple thing.

Lastly, please, pretty please with cherry on top, give us option to select colour of Reactants if at all possible. Baro weekends make me dream in yellow. If individual setting is out of the question, do people think yellow is ok?

[Sloan441]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

LoL, that's what happens when your push 3 year vets, month old accounts and everyone in between into the same 5 min spam missions. Not my fault.

It's not fair that my speed deprives you of a relic role just as it's not fair that your speed deprives me of a roll every 3 missions. Waiting for more than the 45sec timer costs me a full run ever 3 runs. Hows that fair to me?

Despite what some say, the system is very much to blame.

This is why rushtards are a plague on the game and have been for some time. You don't get a bonus for leaving everyone behind.

I WILL make you wait at extraction. There's a point where any mission becomes a scroungefest when rushtards are involved, because there isn't anything else to do--and you will wait that extra minute at extraction.

Had this yesterday on some of the Lith MDs. Rushtards yoloing off to wherever leaving the mission objectives exposed. I haven't felt tempted to let a mission fail for some time, but it's starting to happen again when most of your team is off in parts unknown (scattering reactant to the four winds) and the objective comes under attack. Those enemies will come to you, but, noooooooooo, have to feed the ADD and bounce around the map without a single thought about much of anything.

Exterminates are a slightly different matter and I generally don't do them in PuGs anymore just because of the bad behavior. If I do end up in PuGs for some reason, then if I'm not seeing enemies I'm scrounging for resources and I'll maximize my time doing so. Same with caps.

It's not the system. It lets you do has you will. If you choose to behave badly, then consequences follow. If you stay with the team, things go much more smoothly. Just the way of it.

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Sloan441 said:

This is why rushtards are a plague on the game and have been for some time. You don't get a bonus for leaving everyone behind.

I WILL make you wait at extraction. There's a point where any mission becomes a scroungefest when rushtards are involved, because there isn't anything else to do--and you will wait that extra minute at extraction.

Had this yesterday on some of the Lith MDs. Rushtards yoloing off to wherever leaving the mission objectives exposed. I haven't felt tempted to let a mission fail for some time, but it's starting to happen again when most of your team is off in parts unknown (scattering reactant to the four winds) and the objective comes under attack. Those enemies will come to you, but, noooooooooo, have to feed the ADD and bounce around the map without a single thought about much of anything.

Exterminates are a slightly different matter and I generally don't do them in PuGs anymore just because of the bad behavior. If I do end up in PuGs for some reason, then if I'm not seeing enemies I'm scrounging for resources and I'll maximize my time doing so. Same with caps.

It's not the system. It lets you do has you will. If you choose to behave badly, then consequences follow. If you stay with the team, things go much more smoothly. Just the way of it.

Not sure what you're on about. Rushing off and jeopardizing a mission's success is not efficient. "Rushtard" is not related to efficiency unless you're specifically talking about Capture or Exterminate. The very missions you claim the situation is different. So it sounds like you're just going on about something completely unrelated to my opinion and stance for no reason.

You can make me wait every single mission and it's still more efficient than doing the mission solo.

The system is to blame. I've played the same way for years and never had to argue with some stranger about it until now. while my plat says I'm doing it right.

What you said you do in Exterminate is literally all I need from my team mates, I don't care if you get a single kill otherwise.

....and there are no consequences to Void 2.0, that's the problem.  It's Trivial beyond measure.

[Sloan441]

The whole game is trivial in many ways, once you've reached a certain level of ability to mod correctly. It's called progression. Things are easy when you've arrived. It's the main reason for pursuing it.

Not all 'get it' though.

And if your teammates aren't having fun because of your behavior, then the fault falls on you. If you aren't sticking with the team, then you are a problem. Period. There is an issue with veteran tenno when teamed with fresh fish, but, again, a lot of the worst consequences of it are minimized when the team stays together.

When I was new, I had no issues sticking with far more experienced players both to learn and to survive in what were difficult missions for new players. When they just abandon you at warp speed because they've got every speed mod imaginable because of some fetish about "efficiency" and you're left standing around in missions you're barely able to survive, then we have real problems.

[Tyranei]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Not sure what you're on about. Rushing off and jeopardizing a mission's success is not efficient. "Rushtard" is not related to efficiency unless you're specifically talking about Capture or Exterminate. The very missions you claim the situation is different. So it sounds like you're just going on about something completely unrelated to my opinion and stance for no reason.

You can make me wait every single mission and it's still more efficient than doing the mission solo.

The system is to blame. I've played the same way for years and never had to argue with some stranger about it until now. while my plat says I'm doing it right.

What you said you do in Exterminate is literally all I need from my team mates, I don't care if you get a single kill otherwise.

....and there are no consequences to Void 2.0, that's the problem.  It's Trivial beyond measure.

I agree.  Its a horribly designed system.  The relic system nerfed our ducat income by restricting us to only 1 reward per mission and forcing us to farm extra to get void traces for higher chances at the rare drops.  And its almost impossible to create relic groups since everyone only wants to do group runs for Radiants so you can't even farm void traces while ensuring everyone has the same relic so you don't have to memorize every single relic drop list.  The whole system is a mess because it forces everyone to play this little minigame of "pick up the glowing balls" when its not a shared drop and Vacuum doesn't work on them.  The whole reason I (and pretty much the whole community) use Carrier is so I don't have to do exactly what Void 2.0 is forcing me to do.

Its not fair to me that I have to run with slow people and its not fair to them.  That's why I hate doing pugs and run with as many friends as possible to avoid this terribly designed system.

[Zookes]

New void is plain tedious.

I want high volume to meet ducat needs (400 for costume piece when all I get are common drops? why?). High volume means rushing. Rushing means leaving slower or late-joining players behind. This is regrettable, but the less time I spend waiting around after completing the tedious collectathon, the more I can do before burning out.

I must play in public because more players mean more chance to NOT get forma, so solo is not an option.

To make matters worse, I have to keep a drop table open and read it multiple times within 20 seconds at EOM to pick the "correct" reward for the highest value. This table will become impossible to quickly read after the next few prime releases unless reward rarity is shown in the UI. I will probably take another very long break before then to wait for this system to be repaired.

This Void 2.0 is paperwork to me. It is not fun.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Zookes

[SanguineSavant]

18 hours ago, Metalman007 said:

 The Principle I'm trying to convey is this system makes it possible for someone to ruin other players experience in a significant way

In the old system, when folks would keyshare, people could show their keys only yet would claim they've already used it or leave when it comes to their turn. It wouldn't happen all the time but it would happen - just like this: can happen. However this system stops anyone who doesn't contribute a key from getting a reward. You don't lose the key if you don't get full reactant and they get less of a reward pool to choose from. They lose. You don't lose anything but time. You get void traces out of it. There's no loss for you here. Only people who don't have the time or are just impatient are going to lose out.
 

15 hours ago, Xzorn said:

#BringBacktheVoid

...That's a good slogan you have there, Mr Trump. Tell us how you'll make the void great again.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Honestly, I still think they should file this whole void 2.0 into the "failed experiments" category, revert the old void back, but keep the reactant/choose reward every rotation feature, as it's the only improvement this new void has brought , and it's in no way tied to the actual mission.

... And perhaps keep the ability to play random groups... I'll admit it would be cool to get PUG void groups, as long as you can stay longer than your team if everyone bails after five minutes or something.

Edited August 14, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[AnonumusSoldier]

I honestly have never had this problem. When people finish thier relics they usually post in chat done. Anyone that's not says (what number they're on)/10. If someone trips evac timer those that aren't done call out not done and everyone gets off and waits.

[ograzzt]

21 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

So really, why not make a bigger reactant needed cap based on how many players are in party, then make the reactant pickups count for all players. That way you all extract same time and all get the stuff. 

Because I don't want to do all the work and collectt 4x ammount of reactants while others afk. Because sometimes you leave your reactants on 9/10 till the end on purpose because you want to wait for kavat buff (there are also other tricks which require you to stay with 9/10 for some time).

Current system is fine, usually the ammount of reactants is much more than you need anyway, except for sabotage missions maybe, they really need to be looked at.

[LuckyCharm]

11 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

Because I don't want to do all the work and collectt 4x ammount of reactants while others afk. Because sometimes you leave your reactants on 9/10 till the end on purpose because you want to wait for kavat buff (there are also other tricks which require you to stay with 9/10 for some time).

Current system is fine, usually the ammount of reactants is much more than you need anyway, except for sabotage missions maybe, they really need to be looked at.

AFKing is one thing, but OP did kinda say people were leaving missions before everyone was done so they ended up getting nothing. Would you be just as happy if you were waiting on your 9/10 and suddenly get kicked from mission because someone extracted leaving you with no part just traces?

[ograzzt]

13 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

AFKing is one thing, but OP did kinda say people were leaving missions before everyone was done so they ended up getting nothing. Would you be just as happy if you were waiting on your 9/10 and suddenly get kicked from mission because someone extracted leaving you with no part just traces?

I don't force people to wait for me. I keep 9/10 till the end, if no buff is applied I just taking this last reactant and that's it. I don't understand how it can happen "suddenly" tho. But even if it did happend - did I lost anything? Nothing really, except maybe several minutes of my time.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

On 13/08/2016 at 3:51 PM, Metalman007 said:

Warframe is no longer fun to play because this system has given impatient players control over the squad.  Please fix.

My general advice;

1- Tell your squad if you haven't gotten them all, it's only been one occasion where I missed out on mine

 

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Honestly, I still think they should file this whole void 2.0 into the "failed experiments" category, revert the old void back, but keep the reactant/choose reward every rotation feature, as it's the only improvement this new void has brought , and it's in no way tied to the actual mission.

... And perhaps keep the ability to play random groups... I'll admit it would be cool to get PUG void groups, as long as you can stay longer than your team if everyone bails after five minutes or something.

And have a t3 defence clogged to the crap with gear? Yeah no thanks.

[Mardana]

Maybe just allow Sentinels be able to detect reactant with Animal instinct, and let Carrier / Carrier P able to vaccum them up, that should do the work? I hope.

[Hayabusa97]

On 8/13/2016 at 2:47 AM, Vol4ica_ said:

I met some people like that just when Baro has arrived. I got weak internet connection and because of that I joined squad when there were 40\100 exterminated already. Because of rushy Ember (delayed fissure spawning + too fast kill = not enough void mobs) I wasn't able to pick 10 reactants (9\10 ugh:\\\). Two other players were helping me to find that missing reactant, but Ember didn't. "Baro is leaving soon and I'm rushing ducat farming". Didn't matter for him that I had top tier relic..

I've kinda learned in this game that if I have a rare relic, someone else in the group likely has about 20 because they may or may not play 10-12 hours a day (compared to me doin 4-6 hours) doin nothing but Derelicts, Hieracon, and Fissures.