Why Master Rank should matter......

[Omnipower]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Agreed. I don't actually think that "dracos" exist, or at least they aren't very common. For one thing, you have NEVER been able to level your MR to very high at any single node. You must move around a lot in order to build all the weapons needed to rank up. Most of the grind to 22 is in getting the weapons, not leveling them.

this is half true considering a fairly large portion of the weaponry is in market or dojo both easily gotten too; you mean crafting is the time consumer gotta farm them resources *puts on my farmers cap*

Edited August 18, 2016 by Omnipower
grammar

[(PSN)bddacres]

1 minute ago, ArchangelusAlpharius said:

Hem. We PC players have different slang than you Console Peasants, so please forgive us if we DON'T understand terms like "a Draco"

Only founder's are considered nobles..... your just another average joe without Excalibur prime like the rest of us lol

[artemisfortune]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

Only founder's are considered nobles..... your just another average joe without Excalibur prime like the rest of us lol

No we're not.

[Kasarian]

1 minute ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

You should know that someone is used draco(and only draco) as the sole method of obtaining a higher mr is typical referd to as a draco

You know, that kinda hurts. This simplistic definition should be expanded upon:

Draco - player who went through mastery ranks using draco that along the way did not obtain any skill or knowledge about the game, it's mechanics or ingame systems.

 

Personally I did draco from mr8 cause leveling up any weapon (or throwing more than 1 forma for that matter) was a chore. And here I am, mr22 helping newbs out, carrying out missions (not necessarily as dps but mostly as support) and generally not screwing up missions for other people (quite on the contrary). What does that make me?...

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

 

But you made the condescending term of calling someone a "Draco", which I have never heard of until now, and meant it to have a negative meaning.

You and me both. (and other people for that matter...)

[(PSN)bddacres]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Darth-Escar said:

The only way such a bad player could enter a difficult mission like that is by taxi. I think players who taxi just need to take some most responsibility for completing the mission. (Also 'Draco' is PS4 term for describing players.)

Some players get stuck in lobbies with more experienced players and arent prepared....

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, Omnipower said:

this is half true considering a fairly large portion of the weaponry is in market or dojo both easily gotten too;

Yes and no. Most weapons in the dojo require forma, which requires farming. And there are a *lot* of prime weapons and frames. And most of the normal frames cannot be acquired on a single node (obviously ash and oberon are exceptions). You can rank up a bit, sure. But you can't get within 10 miles of rank 22.

[(PSN)bddacres]

2 minutes ago, Kasarian said:

You know, that kinda hurts. This simplistic definition should be expanded upon:

Draco - player who went through mastery ranks using draco that along the way did not obtain any skill or knowledge about the game, it's mechanics or ingame systems.

 

Personally I did draco from mr8 cause leveling up any weapon (or throwing more than 1 forma for that matter) was a chore. And here I am, mr22 helping newbs out, carrying out missions (not necessarily as dps but mostly as support) and generally not screwing up missions for other people (quite on the contrary). What does that make me?...

You and me both. (and other people for that matter...)

You starting draco at mr 8 not 0 how does that make you a draco

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, (PS4)bddacres said:

Some players get stuck in lobbies with more experienced players and arent prepared....

Yeah. That happens. And what people in this thread are saying is that gating matchmaking lobbies by MR won't actually stop that, because MR is not a universal, reliable measure of skill or capability. 

[(PSN)bddacres]

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

No we're not.

it was a joke hence the lol

[artemisfortune]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

Some players get stuck in lobbies with more experienced players and arent prepared....

Here is how I play this game, some may agree, some may not.

In a pick-up game, if I notice someone is struggling or dying a lot I attempt to help them. I tell them what they're doing wrong, how they could improve, etc. If they go down more than three times without taking my advice, I let them die and carry the rest of the mission, and then leave the lobby. It's as simple as that.

I don't complain about them not knowing the game, I attempt to help them, and if they refuse my help I finish the mission and leave. This game is not simple if you're fresh too it, and complaining about someone not knowing it without attempting to help is backwards.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

[WrathAscending]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

Have you ever hoped into pubs and seen a mr 2 begging the group to leave the because he is doing zero damage or, seen a "draco" screw up a tactical alert because he's so used to playing dps that he forgot that the game doesn't revolve around it this is (imo) because of lose mastery rank restricts and matchmaking. Mr should restrict players to some extent (eh mr 12 tops). Matching making should put players of similar mr into groups together first. Thoughts

I think they actually did try to make it so we would be matched with players of a similar MR once but for whatever reason the sorting algorithm didn't work too well and most players found nobody was joining their mission.

Technical issues aside, MR isn't that great for sorting players. If I'm doing a low-level Mercury mission (especially that first Survival) it's either to farm Polymer Bundles or to try out a new build I'm setting up, in which case having new players join is win-win. It boosts the enemy count which means more XP and more Polymer for me, while they get an easy ride to 10 minutes or so and then some help clearing Mercury or fighting Vor if they haven't gone that far yet.

There's also the issue of server population. My home region, Oceania, is often very quiet with few if any players attempting any given node. I'd rather play in a squad than go solo and any additional sorting restrictions on who can join is likely to mean other players get sent to do their missions alone as well. It might be less of an issue on densely populated servers but for quieter ones it wouldn't be conducive to getting any squad together.

Finally, a part of this is simple etiquette. If the group is on a low-level node and the new player can't keep up, they should have the good grace to extract. They can come back set to Friends Only or Invite Only, the newer player is probably on that node for the first time and needs to clear it. The new player needs that extraction to advance; the established players do not.

EDIT: Also, running into high-level players on low-level nodes can be very helpful for the newer players if the high-level players are willing to slow down and explain things to them. Personally I throw a bunch of mods at them (multi-shot, Blaze, Shred, Stances) if they're MR 2 or above as well but really... we were all new once, and how many of us would have appreciated a bit of a leg up even if it's just in knowledge base? I know I would have.

Edited August 18, 2016 by WrathAscending

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

You starting draco at mr 8 not 0 how does that make you a draco

I would appreciate it if you'd just stop using "a draco" as a derogatory term, period. I don't think it actually means anything, and derogatory names of any kind should never be used to refer to other players, even if those players aren't here in this thread to be offended.

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Oh, abbacephas, where have you been hiding that image?! I needz it!

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Oh, abbacephas, where have you been hiding that image?! I needz it!

Bow before my superior Google-fu skills!

 

[SenorClipClop]

22 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

You still haven't defined a "draco."

I think a "draco" is, in this context, a player who has done lots and lots of affinity grinding (by cheesing affinity-heavy nodes like the Draco) to reach a high MR very quickly and not develop the skill or practice required to put up with later game content (as well as perhaps lacking certain life-saving mods got by varying your play throughout the Starchart). The result can often be a player that is high-level but with low skill and/or practice, which results in them being less effective in the squad

It's only ever happened rarely to me, but enough that I understand what OP is getting at. It can be rough to drop into a mission, or have someone drop into yours, who is a low MR and still has an MK-1 weapon equipped. It means you'll be doing a lot more work and can't enjoy playing on quite the same level (due to disparities in loadout strength, mods and total play familiarity) as the other squad member. I would really enjoy a toggle that would matchmake you into squads of similar MR. Too many times I've either shown up into a mission that I had to pull to success, and way too often I've had a ludicrously higher MR player drop into my mission and one-shot everything at top speed and proceed to the end, making my mission an empty running simulator.

Developing a matchmaking option that would allow players to play with people of the same general level would be excellent. The mission is more engaging when your teammates are on your level, able to fight alongside you and play as hard as you're playing. There's a small problem doing it based on MR, though, and that is OP's "draco" point: even if you have a similar MR to someone (due to the freedom to grind out exp), there's no guarantee they'll be playing at the same level of skill as you are. It's a conundrum, but how can we effectively match players? We can look at considering other values -- number of in-game achievements, kill/assist metrics, number of forma applied to stuff, etc -- but since you can kind of just do whatever you want in Warframe, none of these stand out as a way to assess a player's abilities in a reliable way.

What this points to, I guess, is for players to ensure they get an even-playing field experience in a squad, networking is still the surest fix.

 

EDIT: From its context, I don't believe the player means any offense in the term "draco" to anyone who does affinity grinding. Here I believe "draco" is used to refer to players who grind up to high MR without challenging themselves, who give Draco a bad rap.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SenorClipClop

[(PSN)bddacres]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

I would appreciate it if you'd just stop using "a draco" as a derogatory term, period. I don't think it actually means anything, and derogatory names of any kind should never be used to refer to other players, even if those players aren't here in this thread to be offended.

How is the term derogatory. If your offended i'm oblivious as to how 

Edited August 18, 2016 by (PS4)bddacres

[Omnipower]

7 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Yes and no. Most weapons in the dojo require forma, which requires farming. And there are a *lot* of prime weapons and frames. And most of the normal frames cannot be acquired on a single node (obviously ash and oberon are exceptions). You can rank up a bit, sure. But you can't get within 10 miles of rank 22.

i shouldve been more clear with what i meant but yeah getting to mr 22 is quite difficult without putting time and or plat/money into the game even with draco but what i meant was that you can get like MR16? if im not mistaken with just stuff in market alone and most of the time is getting the resources for them not the actual weapon itself

Edited August 18, 2016 by Omnipower

[Azrael]

Just now, SenorClipClop said:

I think a "draco" is, in this context, a player who has done lots and lots of affinity grinding...

You missed the rest of the thread where I said I got it but was trying to get op to say it, because it conflicted with his point. We talked about this idea. Some of us don't think that it's as big of a problem as op thinks, and even if it was MR gates wouldn't help.

[------Solo------]

2 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

even if you have a similar MR to someone (due to the freedom to grind out exp), there's no guarantee they'll be playing at the same level of skill as you are.

Thank you. This one line sums up everything about MR. 

[artemisfortune]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

How is the term derogatory. If you offended i'm oblivious as to how 

Feigning ignorance because someone called you out is shameful.

You've used the term negatively throughout this thread, and many other threads. No one is offended, we're just collectively embarrassed that this has become a term to talk about players who played the game how they saw fit.

I also want to mention I have only once found someone who refused my help and didn't at least attempt to learn. There are very few elitist A******s that I've found in this game in PUGs.

[(PSN)bddacres]

1 minute ago, SenorClipClop said:

I think a "draco" is, in this context, a player who has done lots and lots of affinity grinding (by cheesing affinity-heavy nodes like the Draco) to reach a high MR very quickly and not develop the skill or practice required to put up with later game content (as well as perhaps lacking certain life-saving mods got by varying your play throughout the Starchart). The result can often be a player that is high-level but with low skill and/or practice, which results in them being less effective in the squad

It's only ever happened rarely to me, but enough that I understand what OP is getting at. It can be rough to drop into a mission, or have someone drop into yours, who is a low MR and still has an MK-1 weapon equipped. It means you'll be doing a lot more work and can't enjoy playing on quite the same level (due to disparities in loadout strength, mods and total play familiarity) as the other squad member. I would really enjoy a toggle that would matchmake you into squads of similar MR. Too many times I've either shown up into a mission that I had to pull to success, and way too often I've had a ludicrously higher MR player drop into my mission and one-shot everything at top speed and proceed to the end, making my mission an empty running simulator.

Developing a matchmaking option that would allow players to play with people of the same general level would be excellent. The mission is more engaging when your teammates are on your level, able to fight alongside you and play as hard as you're playing. There's a small problem doing it based on MR, though, and that is OP's "draco" point: even if you have a similar MR to someone (due to the freedom to grind out exp), there's no guarantee they'll be playing at the same level of skill as you are. It's a conundrum, but how can we effectively match players? We can look at considering other values -- number of in-game achievements, kill/assist metrics, number of forma applied to stuff, etc -- but since you can kind of just do whatever you want in Warframe, none of these stand out as a way to assess a player's abilities in a reliable way.

What this points to, I guess, is for players to ensure they get an even-playing field experience in a squad, networking is still the surest fix.

Thats what i am aiming at. It's unfair to both sides at times.  I don't to create a hostile environment where Mr is another thing used to demean players just a guide to  match players 

[Omega-Shadowblade]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

How is the term derogatory. If your offended i'm oblivious as to how 

You are being accusatory to a play style. Not much different to being against a person's habits in real life being labeled in a similar fashion. Its rude.

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

How is the term derogatory. If your offended i'm oblivious as to how 

I never said I was offended, it doesn't apply to me at all. But it's very obviously a derogatory term. It means someone who got to a high MR but doesn't deserve it because they just sat on draco all the time and never learned how to play the game. I don't know how you can claim that it's not a derogatory term with a straight face...

 

4 minutes ago, Omnipower said:

i shouldve been more clear with what i meant but yeah getting to mr 22 is quite difficult without putting time and or plat/money into the game even with draco but what i meant was that you can get like MR16? if im not mistaken with just stuff in market alone and most of the time is getting the resources for them not the actual weapon itself

Do you really think you can get to 16? I know there's a lot of stuff in the market, but.. Well, I guess it's possible. Someone should add it up and see. You're right about the first ranks being more about resources than anything, but you haven't mentioned something: at low ranks, those resources can be a real pain to get! You need to unlock lots of different places to get everything you need.

The point is that it's not so easy to rank up without playing anything other than one node.

[(PSN)bddacres]

5 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Feigning ignorance because someone called you out is shameful.

You've used the term negatively throughout this thread, and many other threads. No one is offended, we're just collectively embarrassed that this has become a term to talk about players who played the game how they saw fit.

I also want to mention I have only once found someone who refused my help and didn't at least attempt to learn. There are very few elitist A******s that I've found in this game in PUGs.

Draco is used to refer to payers who have only used draco to level up and is that form of player's may way of playing (was). That definition is in no way negative. Self reflection may present some conflict within but, the term itself is not negative. I am not feigning ignorance but, feeling offended because you feel assaulted by the use of the term is unnecessary.

It's ironic how you focus on the use of the draco when someone in this thread said "your (an) idiot  kys"

Edited August 18, 2016 by (PS4)bddacres