OK, clearly DE aren't understanding WHY we Nullifiers get so much hate

[TARINunit9]

(If anyone knows Scott's handle, please forward this to him)

So let me spell this out as unambiguously as possible:

WE ALREADY KNOW WHY NULLIFIERS EXIST. WHAT WE HATE IS THAT THEY'RE A TERRIBLE, HORRIBLE EXECUTION OF AN OTHERWISE OK IDEA

What's that? Nullifiers exist to make us change our playstyle and be less reliant on instantly killing everything by spamming our powers? Why yes, we in fact DID already understand that! It's obvious to all of us! That's not what we hate about them. The hate comes from a very bad execution of that idea

Exhibit A: Players who rely too much on powers aren't the only people getting "punished"
Anything that has to charge, as well as Sniper Rifles, is getting rapidly left in the dust in this game; Nullifiers are exacerbating that issue even further. There's a reason the meta is Boltor Prime and Synoid Simulor. The game is set up so that your weapon TYPE is up to your personal preference and only your MOD LOADOUT is the part you need to adapt with for each enemy faction.
Speaking of charge weapons and mods, wasn't there a Miter mod in the pipeline that would insta-pop Nullie bubbles on a charge shot? Anyone remember that?

Exhibit B: They barely even work
Filling the battlefield with Simulor balls and detonating them when a Nullifier walks close will kill Nullies with little hassle. Exalted Blade still shrinks Nullie bubbles and kills them. That's two of the four things Nulllies are meant to stop the abuse of (the others being Ash and Ember). Even the intended solution (toxic melee damage) is far too easy to implement, removing the last vestige of "challenge" from Nullies and leaving only the "obtuse and unfun"

Exhibit C: You've already created better options. Why not use them?
Scrambus units are fast, nullify SOME powers, are tanky but still weak-ish to toxic melee damage, and have dangerous weapons that can be avoided with actual skill. Also you cna stop their nullifier fields by shooting their helmets off, which unlike Nullies doesn't discriminate against weapon type and scales far better with level. Isolator Bursas have a little too much going for them (one-hit-kill shotgun AND 6 second stun attack AND scorpion harpoon AND Nullifier Grenades?) but the Nullifier Grenades themselves are a much better concept than Nullifier Shields ever were

The verdict: Nullifiers are a terrible bandaid solution to a problem that could be solved much better. It's time for that to actually happen

(I realized that every time someone spells this out, it's not as the OP of a thread, but somewhere in the replies. It's time to rectify that too)

[Shadow8600]

 

Well said, m8. Also it's the things that hide underneath said Nullies as well. Leech Ospreys I hate thee with an everlasting passion!

Edited August 20, 2016 by Shadow8600

[GrimAtrament]

i dont under stand why you hate nulifiers so much

[kubbi]

There are already countless threads explaining why nullifiers are bad. Give it up. Our feedback will just be disregarded as always. 

Their reaction on the stream proved they never read our feedback.

[Cenat]

Not this again

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, hazerddex said:

i dont under stand why you hate nulifiers so much

Read the OP.

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

Read the OP.

i did i still dont under stand and ill never under stand why people hate on one of the units that make the corpis challenging and not another slaughter fest like the grineer

 

 

buff the grineer and leave the corpus alone 

Edited August 20, 2016 by hazerddex

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, kubbi said:

There are already countless threads explaining why nullifiers are bad. Give it up. Our feedback will just be disregarded as always. 

Their reaction on the stream proved they never read our feedback.

Except they DO read our feedback. Ever read the patch notes? They even link to threads to congratulate us for providing feedback. The stuff they talked about in the stream makes it clear that they need to understand what the actual problem is this time, since they are aware it IS a problem

[SharkPot]

Let me rephrase what de is doing. They want to buff nully reduce dependency on just wep and powers. Does de really care about it? No. So just chill out in the fact that they don't really care about it.

 

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, hazerddex said:

i did i still dont under stand 

Then let this issue be acknowledged and discussed by those who do.

[GrimAtrament]

2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Then let this issue be acknowledged and discussed by those who do.

but there is no issue with them thats my point

 

also scrambas and combas barely work at all they still cant shut down limbos rift walk nezhas blazing halo ingores them equinox still instant kills everything in the area 

Edited August 20, 2016 by hazerddex

[SharkPot]

2 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

i did i still dont under stand and ill never under stand why people hate on one of the units that make the corpis challenging and not another slaughter fest like the grineer

 

 

buff the grineer and leave the corpus alone 

You haven't ever done a survival that lasts more than an hour have you??

[Naftal]

They should just reduce duration of all CC, put target caps per cast and make enemies immune to subsequent CC.

And remove nullifiers.

[izzatuw]

5 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

i dont under stand why you hate nulifiers so much

A major problem with nullifiers is that they don't just effect people that spam abilities.

 

they also have a major effect on people that don't use rapid fire weapons which would be people that use snipers, bows, Marelok/Lex, shotgun users.

[Dragon_AV]

2 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

but there is no issue with them thats my point

And that is your personal opinion, especially since you don't back it up with either proof or examples like the OP did

 

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, SharkPot said:

You haven't ever done a survival that lasts more than an hour have you??

does 80 min not count as more then an hour any more?

[GrimAtrament]

7 minutes ago, izzatuw said:

A major problem with nullifiers is that they don't just effect people that spam abilities.

 

they also have a major effect on people that don't use rapid fire weapons which would be people that use snipers, bows, Marelok/Lex, shotgun users.

ya and scrambas and combas dont do anything at all i can still kill them with equinox's 4 nezhas shield still stays on when they are around they cant do anything to limbos rift walk for some unknow reason they do nothing to frost snow globe and you say that the nulifiers dont work? combas work even less fix the combas/scrambas before you do anything to nerf the nulifiers 

 

also i use shotguns all the time and never once had an issue with nulifiers just walk in and kill them only people having problems with them are the people using sniper that cant seem to press f to switch weapons 

 

and dont you dare give me dont want to use secondary exucse sentients become damage type immune FORCING YOU to switch weapons its called adaptive combat its a great addition and give the game a more challenging aspect of the game

Edited August 20, 2016 by hazerddex

[SilvaDreams]

So in essence.. Remove Nullifiers because they are too hard to deal with, we want the easy to kill anti-skill mobs.

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, SilvaDreams said:

So in essence.. Remove Nullifiers because they are too hard to deal with, we want the easy to kill anti-skill mobs.

Did you not even read it?

[Beggining]

5 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

So in essence.. Remove Nullifiers because they are too hard to deal with, we want the easy to kill anti-skill mobs.

As stated in OP's Exhibit A, B, and C: It's not for that reason.

Exhibit A shows that the Nullifiers are hurting other playstyles such as low ROF users instead of punishing those who cheese through the game, B showed that those who cheese will continue to cheese, and Exhibit C shows better alternative (Combas, Scrambus, etc.)

Edited August 20, 2016 by Beggining
Inspector Gadget to the rescue!

[izzatuw]

3 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

ya and scrambas and combas dont do anything at all i can still kill them with equinox's 4 nezhas shield still stays on when they are around they cant do anything to limbos rift walk for some unknow reason they do nothing to frost snow globe and you say that the nulifiers dont work? combas work even less fix the combas/scrambas before you do anything to nerf the nulifiers 

 

also i use shotguns all the time and never once had an issue with nulifiers just walk in and kill them only people having problems with them are the people using sniper that cant seem to press f to switch weapons 

Only problem is with your argument I feel forced to use something that's fast for my secondary, oh you wanna use a slow secondary like Ballistica or Lex for fun? Well too bad bring something faster like Hikou. 

[Cyriann]

As a Shotgun and automatic riffle user it is true that Nullifiers are heavily discriminating weapons when you try to attack them from afar.

Many will say then that I should just walk in a smash the so fragile Nullifier under it. But the point is... I'm not comfortable about running in open space to tackle a sniper enemy that can OS me past a certain level.

 

I see what OP means, the way they function was meant to stop certain behaviours, and it worked, in a way. But now new units have appeared with far better nullifying abilities.

 

I'd say they shouldn't be removed, Nullifiers are a part of the game, but then why not give them a rework ? Making them a new kind of sneaky snipers, posing nullifying traps and positioning themselves afar with a new sniper meant to shoot either damage bullets, or leechers like drones meant to block powers upon latching. That is only a rough idea, but that could be interesting to see.

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, izzatuw said:

Only problem is with your argument I feel forced to use something that's fast for my secondary, oh you wanna use a slow secondary like Ballistica or Lex for fun? Well too bad bring something faster like Hikou. 

how is the balltisca slow? wat? did you mode it for negative fire rate?

beside the point you dont need a super fast firing weapon for nulifiers you can use a high powered close range weapon walk into the bubble enemies outside of it cant hit you when your inside and then you just blow there brains out. how is this so hard?! iv never under stood why people are incapable of such a simple task 

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, izzatuw said:

Only problem is with your argument I feel forced to use something that's fast for my secondary, oh you wanna use a slow secondary like Ballistica or Lex for fun? Well too bad bring something faster like Hikou. 

Ya and that is called playing smart and having a complimentary loudout.

Have a slow Primary take a fast secondary for those "Oh shhh###" moments

[Bacms]

Sorry but everyone that agrees with the OP is obviously wrong I don't have any problem with them so it must be your fault. I could provide feedback but why bother I will just keep telling you guys are wrong and my way of playing the game is better. ... right moving on, on a more serious note yes OP you are right. Any game design that bottlenecks the way you need to play a mission should be address nullies do this at this point