OK, clearly DE aren't understanding WHY we Nullifiers get so much hate

[Eredoc]

OK, so to the people defending the Nullifiers:

We get it, they're an easy mob to deal with ALONE, the real issue becomes apparent when there's other units, even other Nullifiers added to the mix.

"Get in there and Melee" Except the Bombard and Heavy Gunner are waiting to ground slam me at a moments notice, which if you can react and dodge to then good for you and your god like reflexes, problem is not everyone can.

"Melee from the air then" Except the Hit box is a little wonky at best, and you become a sitting duck just waiting to be shot by whatever you missed

"Then ground slam!" except, again, you become a sitting duck and while your frame stands up and recovers, you're already full of holes.

"Then bring a high RoF gun" except some people [Like myself] like slow RoF as everything feels stronger, catering a single weapon just to one specific enemy is not healthy also balance of the game [Where DE try to make sure every weapon is viable] has not been stated in a long, long time, but Every weapon should be viable just for that reason.

Tl;dr: We know they aren't an issue alone, it's when there are other enemies in the mix does this become a huge and significant problem.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Eredoc

[GLTHX]

Make Nullifiers' bubbles take normal damage, not fixed per bullet, so that lower rate of fire weapons are viable. Done. Nullifiers aren't douchebags anymore. Or at least lower their spawn rate so that they can't stack 3 bubbles inside each other while protecting Sapping Ospreys and Techs.

[Kuestenjung]

2 hours ago, kubbi said:

Give it up.

Oh yes, please, that would be a salvation.

2 hours ago, kubbi said:

 Our feedback will just be disregarded as always. 

Their reaction on the stream proved they never read our feedback.

I hope your aren´t referring to an "feedback" from OP cause their is no, ge just wants to discuss Nullifier again otherwise he would have made this thread into feedback

@OP: If you don´t understand what a bandaid is then don´t use this word, Nullifiers are none, they are Evolution, like our weaponry evolutes. And Combas/Scrambus are no better "solution", in fact they are worth to everyone who doesn´t run around Tonkors or Synoids. Nullifiers can be seen from the other side of the map while Scrambus/Combas can appear right infront of you ( I am not talking about spawnmechanics )

[GrimAtrament]

38 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Right, i forgot. Naramon is also a thing.

 here you go some lag spikes but should run smoothly

 

no naramon

and no high fire rate weapon my secondary is the kulstar 

Edited August 20, 2016 by hazerddex

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

5 minutes ago, Eredoc said:

OK, so to the people defending the Nullifiers:

We get it, they're an easy mob to deal with ALONE, the real issue becomes apparent when there's other units, even other Nullifiers added to the mix.

"Get in there and Melee" Except the Bombard and Heavy Gunner are waiting to ground slam me at a moments notice, which if you can react and dodge to then good for you and your god like reflexes, problem is not everyone can.

"Melee from the air then" Except the Hit box is a little wonky at best, and you become a sitting duck just waiting to be shot by whatever you missed

"Then ground slam!" except, again, you become a sitting duck and while your frame stands up and recovers, you're already full of holes.

"Then bring a high RoF gun" except some people [Like myself] like slow RoF as everything feels stronger, catering a single weapon just to one specific enemy is not healthy also balance of the game [Where DE try to make sure every weapon is viable] has not been stated in a long, long time, but Every weapon should be viable just for that reason.

Tl;dr: We know they aren't an issue alone, it's when there are other enemies in the mix does this become a huge and significant problem.

you forgot about the corrupted ancient protecting them.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

5 minutes ago, GLTHX said:

Make Nullifiers' bubbles take normal damage, not fixed per bullet, so that lower rate of fire weapons are viable. Done. Nullifiers aren't douchebags anymore. Or at least lower their spawn rate so that they can't stack 3 bubbles inside each other while protecting Sapping Ospreys and Techs.

 

2 minutes ago, Kuestenjung said:

Oh yes, please, that would be a salvation.

I hope your aren´t referring to an "feedback" from OP cause their is no, ge just wants to discuss Nullifier again otherwise he would have made this thread into feedback

@OP: If you don´t understand what a bandaid is then don´t use this word, Nullifiers are none, they are Evolution, like our weaponry evolutes. And Combas/Scrambus are no better "solution", in fact they are worth to everyone who doesn´t run around Tonkors or Synoids. Nullifiers can be seen from the other side of the map while Scrambus/Combas can appear right infront of you ( I am not talking about spawnmechanics )

 

[Vyra]

oh and also the game is a team game, if one doesnt want to use RoF guns then team up with mates who have no prob using?

or just slide into the nullifiers...

[KirukaChan]

23 minutes ago, Kuestenjung said:

Oh yes, please, that would be a salvation.

I hope your aren´t referring to an "feedback" from OP cause their is no, ge just wants to discuss Nullifier again otherwise he would have made this thread into feedback

@OP: If you don´t understand what a bandaid is then don´t use this word, Nullifiers are none, they are Evolution, like our weaponry evolutes. And Combas/Scrambus are no better "solution", in fact they are worth to everyone who doesn´t run around Tonkors or Synoids. Nullifiers can be seen from the other side of the map while Scrambus/Combas can appear right infront of you ( I am not talking about spawnmechanics )

Combas and Scrambuses make a distinct sound when they're nearby. And unlike Nullifiers, any weapon class can deal with them on equal footing from whatever distance said weapon class shines at.

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

you forgot about the corrupted ancient protecting them.

What about them? Slide attacks hit the Ancient's limbs which have a 3x damage multiplier.

Both die and if you are smart enough not to like linger you live.

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

Well the thing is that Steve is going to say "that is not true" and completely get over this like every other thread because he is scared to face a obvious issue with some corpus troops. At least nullys can be seen where scrambus units get out of nowhere and you don't even know that those 3 bursas on the other side are going to kill you dead because you 200k iron skin that you have been stacking up is gone in a second. I am against ability spam but abilities like wukings 2 (is still broken af), inaros 4, valkyrs 4 (oh god I hate that ability). It is good against spam but really badly made for toggles. 

People are going to say that nullys and scrambus aren't bad but that only means that you don't play the game enough! 

Now get this thread over to Scott before he starts thinking that he did a good job because he didn't 

[Eredoc]

1 minute ago, Kuestenjung said:

@OP: If you don´t understand what a bandaid is then don´t use this word, Nullifiers are none, they are Evolution, like our weaponry evolutes. And Combas/Scrambus are no better "solution", in fact they are worth to everyone who doesn´t run around Tonkors or Synoids. Nullifiers can be seen from the other side of the map while Scrambus/Combas can appear right infront of you ( I am not talking about spawnmechanics )

Except their entire concept was to prevent insta-nuking of WF abilities and were brought in to stop that from happening, which it does, but does it poorly as it does too much at once, They have a Bubble that not only stops WF powers but deflects bullets and can regenerate if not dealt with swiftly, ontop of that they have a long range, high damage weapon, it's not hard to running on your own simply ignoring them or being unaware of their spawn only to eat a bullet and die.

Combas are this done right, they block certain abilities, they themselves have a counter in hitting their face plate off and are restricted to melee while being slightly faster than normal units, they themselves have a gameplay style that's catered to the prevention of WF powers, like the Nullifiers initial concept, without the extra fluff.

[Dragon_AV]

To all people who say: "just jump in the bubble, you'll be fine". I'd like to see you play a non-tank solo on a high level mission and jump into the nullifier bubble with the nullifier, 2 corpus techs and some standard mooks that are already in there.

[GrimAtrament]

Just now, Dragon_AV said:

To all people who say: "just jump in the bubble, you'll be fine". I'd like to see you play a non-tank solo on a high level mission and jump into the nullifier bubble with the nullifier, 2 corpus techs and some standard mooks that are already in there.

^ look at vid count how long im in the bubble

[WarmongerExtraordinare]

nullifiers are a fair and easy challenge

 

scorches, on the other hand...

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, Dragon_AV said:

To all people who say: "just jump in the bubble, you'll be fine". I'd like to see you play a non-tank solo on a high level mission and jump into the nullifier bubble with the nullifier, 2 corpus techs and some standard mooks that are already in there.

Last I checked my Oberon isn't a tank, but I'll happily dive bomb a lvl 100 Nullifier without a second thought.

[GrimAtrament]

Just now, DioBrandoTheHotVampire said:

nullifiers are a fair and easy challenge

 

scorches, on the other hand...

oh god no D: dude you game me flashbacks why T_T

[SpeedOfLightPuncher]

Ok I got a solution for nullies and scrambus 

Make the enemies around them and them immune to all warframe abilities. That will prevent spam because offensive abilities don't work but you can actually survive with a loki, wuking and rhino without being insta killed. That way the nullys and scrambus/comba would be a sort of ancients. Slow weapons like the mitter could actually be used then and your 200k iron skin would not vanish is a second 

[GrimAtrament]

56 minutes ago, LunarEdge7 said:

any semi-auto moderate fire rate weapon, not popping the bubb

 

not sure what mordate is when you can boost any semi autos attack speed by clicking the mouse very very fast  that and fire rate mods

Edited August 20, 2016 by hazerddex

[GrimAtrament]

5 minutes ago, SpeedOfLightPuncher said:

Ok I got a solution for nullies and scrambus 

Make the enemies around them and them immune to all warframe abilities. That will prevent spam because offensive abilities don't work but you can actually survive with a loki, wuking and rhino without being insta killed. That way the nullys and scrambus/comba would be a sort of ancients. Slow weapons like the mitter could actually be used then and your 200k iron skin would not vanish is a second 

problem with that chroma could still rip and tear with nothing ever stopping him he does that anyway if played right but even more so

[(XBOX)Vaktalor]

2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The verdict: Nullifiers are a terrible bandaid solution to a problem that could be solved much better. It's time for that to actually happen

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by (XB1)falconpwnch0234

[wildman657]

Personally never saw a problem with nullifiers, they are annoying yes but I'll live over it.

[Dragon_AV]

24 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Last I checked my Oberon isn't a tank, but I'll happily dive bomb a lvl 100 Nullifier without a second thought.

Did you even read my post?

[Katinka]

Personally, I don't have issues with how Nullifiers work in isolation.  The problem is when there are multiple Nullifiers overlapping.  Just pop the bubble with a high rate of fire weapon? Sure, but the first Nullifier is covered by two other Nullifiers so when his bubble takes half damage the other two start absorbing hits giving his a chance to reload...  and all this is happening while other things are happening too.  In an Exterminate, even that situation isn't much of an issue but take it to a more complex situation, such as a Sortie Defense or Rescue where you need to get past them to pick up the Operative or even another player.  Throw in a few other units also protected by three bubbles such as two or three Bombards or Sapping Ospreys and I might as well just leave the room and go find a part of the mission where playing the game is fun and not frustrating.  Oh, and running in to melee doesn't work when the other two Nullifiers step away as you approach so their bubbles block the melee swing from hitting the one you are targetting...  Maybe I just have sucky luck when it comes to Nullifiers reacting to me...

I think looking into the spawn rates of certain enemies would improve the game.  Nullifiers shouldn't be as common as they are, in my opinion, and the Corpus should only deploy a limited number of these valuable units at a time.  Perhaps their AI could be tweaked so they don't overlap as tactically that would ensure they covered a larger area but gameplay-wise would prevent the issue of overlapping defenses (which only gets worse when the Arctic Eximus variant is thrown into the mix).  I don't think Nullifiers are alone in having too high a spawn rate though.  Sapping Ospreys can be like this too.  I played a mission a couple of nights back where about half the enemies were Sapping Ospreys.  I was about half way through the mission before I saw an organic Corpus and it was a Nullifier!  I don't mind proxies out numbering organics as that makes some sense but not to that level and I don't think I saw a single MOA or Crewman (regular or Elite).  It was nothing but Ospreys (mostly Sapping with a few Oxium and Leech), Nullifers and a couple of Techs.

[(XBOX)The Greedy Milk]

this is actually getting ridiculous now, never in my life have i seen players fight for/against reworking a enemy faction, lets talk about this point

Not all powers are nullified by the bubble, and the reliance of automatic weapons.

Yes, exalted blade can still damage the bubble which makes no sense in the grand scheme, his waves shouldn't be able to do that. But I want to talk more on reliance of weaponry to kill nullies from afar. I will say this right now, as a mastery 15 Tenno, i have not lasted more than an hour on void survivals, why? I hate survivals and i don't have any time to waste on it.

Anyway, being *forced* to use/equip an automatic isn't okay, bows should punch through the bubble or do a considerable amount of damage to it, like maybe one charged shot will take away a massive chunk of its health, same goes for other weapons like snipers and crossbows. I feel like weapon damage should affect the bubble, more powerful weapons should take away bigger chunks than what we have now, it shouldn't one shot the bubble, but it should do serious damage to it.

"lol u n00b just slide attack the nullster. job done boii"

That isn't an option in high level content, you can't just slide attack a nullifier and run scott free, you will be killed instantly, and no rhino skin will protect you from a level 80-120 bombard rocket combined with the corpus shotgunners and a heavy gunner raining down hell aimed straight at your face. If there weren't any enemies around the nullifier, go ahead and try to kill him, it should work, but 9 times out of 10, there will be a bombard/heavy gunner in there.

"l0lsters my bolsters, you gotsa do the bullet jump and escape from da dangers yo"

Again not a good option, you'd be suprised how large the knockdown radius is on those enemies, if you slide attack then bullet jump, sure, you might not be killed, but you will recieve heavy damage from it. case closed

[dEjAvU5566]

In the current state, yes its annoying, simply not fun ( in terms of high level and long time mission of course)

But in my humble opinion, nullifiers just need some tweaks, it will give some "meaningful" challenge, dont need to fully removed those bubbleman.

* Let sniper rifles , bows and maybe shotguns capable of penetrate through the bubble by using specific manner, like fully charged bullet/arrow.

* Bubble interaction may change to generate a bigger bubble when multiple bubble collides, not overlapping as hell.

* Bubble regenerate speed could be slower, and back to the same speed as now if they are linked to shield drones.