Relic system, Prime access and why console players suffer from it

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

I'm sure a lot of people are already talking about this and here is my two cents on the issue. It might be a bit lengthy.

I do not like the new relic system like many other people and here are the reasons why. We were promised the fissure and relic system would "take away the grind", make getting prime items a breeze, make the game more simple and such. Has it made prime item farming a breeze ? No . before this, you could jump into a void mission solo run it as many times as you pleased and get your item at the end . was it grindy ? Yes but was it rewarding ? Yes. With the new system, running a fissure solo might just be the biggest mistake you can make, you will be garaunteed to get what you do not want and the chances you do get what you want is extremely slim. Now running it with a squad increases your chances but you have to run it with people who have spoken to you and decided to run the same relic with you to greatly increase your chances. If you're in a small clan, well doing that will be hard and if you try recruitment chat, chances are you will not find anyone who will stay long enough to run them with you . Doing it with randoms also sucks because they will all have different keys eliminating any chance of you getting what you want.  

Now let's take a look at prime access and farming new primes. Instead of a vaulted prime getting removed from the drop tables and replaces with then new primes making easier for farming for them, the vaulted prime is kept in its relic and its relic is then removed from the drop tables from what I understand . Then the new prime gets new relics which we then have to farm for.  This new system doubles the grind as relics have a low drop chance and even though the codex has a relic section, us console players do not have this leaving us scratching our heads . I've been looking all day to find the new relics drop locations and only found some vague information on the nekros system relics drop locations. Will the relic section be added to the codex for us console players ? Probably but why was it not added before the prime access release ? Why could it not have been part of the sotr update ? Why do we have to farm new relics and hope for them to drop then run them and hope for a single part to drop.  Were we not promised this system would make things easier ? Why has the grind for primes doubled ? If I may, I humbly suggest that the vaulting system be reverted to what it was, them being removed then replaced by the new primes then the drops shaken up to mix it all up so the promise that was made to us would be upholder. I actually like the new fissure system because its a  nice change of pace for people like me who have been playing for a long time , I just dislike that we have been mislead and also hate the relic system . 

[(PSN)BlinkLazy]

well, you have four chances of anything on a single relic dropping thanks to the matchmaking system, which is at the moment flooded with people who are using nekros relics anyway. I hate to tell you but it isnt gonna change any time soon, as they have gone on to say many times. I personally think it benefits the player more ways than one, with a matchmaking option for relic farming, the ability to upgrade relics, and the fact relics are far more common than keys, leans in the favor of the relic system. WHile your opinion is valid, and it might not be better for you specifically, its very preferable to a greater audience of people who had been asking for a change to the void forever.

not to mention that this doesnt effect console players any differently than PC players, which makes the title of the post a bit missleading

[(PSN)DBR87]

The "Farm new relics" part is really urking me right now. Before, when we had keys, the new prime parts would just get added to the keys you already had and old parts would be taken away. So when new Primes came out you could immediately go into the void and start farming them. Now I there is an extra layer of farming before you begin farming. With Void Keys, you could of stock piled them before hand now you have to farm Relics before you farm parts and any old relics you already have a near useless...only good for ducats and plat if you're into trading because you already have what is on those relic's drop tables.

 

I am really not liking this new void system.

[(PSN)RedChili69]

Do we really need yet another topic about the subject?

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)RedChili69 said:

Do we really need yet another topic about the subject?

Yes

[GinKenshin]

So you don't have an advantage since the relic coded isn't out for you yet? I guess that's a good reason. But isn't the relic drops the same for all platforms? Meaning if Lith J7 drops in Draco on PC, it'll also drop in Draco for PS4? 

[Carnage2K4]

I doubt they ever said getting prime items would be a 'breeze'... That seem counter intuitive to the normal requirement for money... I mean if Prime stuff was a breeze, why bother buying plat or prime access...

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 hours ago, (PS4)RedChili69 said:

Do we really need yet another topic about the subject?

Has it been fixed yet? No? Then, Yes, there needs to be another thread about it.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

24 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

I doubt they ever said getting prime items would be a 'breeze'... That seem counter intuitive to the normal requirement for money... I mean if Prime stuff was a breeze, why bother buying plat or prime access...

You know if everything in the market wasn't ridiculously over priced, more people would be more willing to buy it.  There is no reason I should be able to buy a slot, a tater, and exilus slot, and Nova Prime for like a third of what it would cost to buy a regular Nova from the market place.  Prime access is also not worth more than a AAA game.  DE is out of touch. If they are losing money then instead of increasing grind, which is more likely to just drive away players, then they should reassess their pricing.

And I am sure that they don't care that much about player churn since there are plenty of new players to take the place of vets, but that can only last so long.  Eventually, you run out of new players.

[Carnage2K4]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

You know if everything in the market wasn't ridiculously over priced, more people would be more willing to buy it.  There is no reason I should be able to buy a slot, a tater, and exilus slot, and Nova Prime for like a third of what it would cost to buy a regular Nova from the market place.  Prime access is also not worth more than a AAA game.  DE is out of touch. If they are losing money then instead of increasing grind, which is more likely to just drive away players, then they should reassess their pricing.

And I am sure that they don't care that much about player churn since there are plenty of new players to take the place of vets, but that can only last so long.  Eventually, you run out of new players.

Hmm well Prime Access is for sure overpriced, it does feel over priced for mostly cosmetic things, but plat I think is fine, If you have the $$$ to blow why not, on the other hand -75% is a big incentive to spend $50 on the max pack now and again.

You also need to remember that the vast majority of 'AAA' games last less than 20 hours start to finish, Many MMOs want a monthly subscription, If you're into Warframe as much as someone who will spend $150 on Prime access you're expecting to spend 100s maybe 1000s of hours in game, and it's up to you if you wish to make it a free experience or a paid one. I remember the days when I bought 2 game (crash bandicoot 3 & Abes Exodus) and finished both in 3 days 100% and that cost me about $150 for both, I've never touched them again, but I have put a few 100 hours into Warframe and in that respect $150 for some cool exclusive gear I think is Okay. I just feel like maybe your expectations are a little bit to high for a price tag, and that everything has to be about 'now now now' need the prime parts on the 1st day, need to know where the relics are now, it's not even been 24H since the Nek P. Was released. If you want everything right now just buy it, or wait till other ppl find the info you want, and that might take a few days, F2P is always about balancing Time with Money in all respects. Choose one, the other or a mix of both... 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Carnage2K4

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, Carnage2K4 said:

Hmm well Prime Access is for sure overpriced, it does feel over priced for mostly cosmetic things, but plat I think is fine, If you have the $$$ to blow why not, on the other hand -75% is a big incentive to spend $50 on the max pack now and again.

You also need to remember that the vast majority of 'AAA' games last less than 20 hours start to finish, Many MMOs want a monthly subscription, If your into Warframe as much as someone who will spend $150 on Prime access you're expecting to spend 100s maybe 1000s of hours in game, and it's up to you if you wish to make it a free experience or a paid one. I remember the days when I bought 2 game (crash bandicoot 3 & Abes Exodus) and finished both in 3 day 100% and that cost me about $150 for both, I've never touched them again, but I have put a few 100 hours into Warframe and in that respect $150 for some cool exclusive gear I think is Okay. I just feel like maybe your expectations are a little bit to high for a price tag, and that everything has to be about 'now now now' need the prime parts on the 1st day, need to know where the relics are now, it's not even been 24H since the Nek P. Was released. If you want everything right now just buy it, or wait till other ppl find the info you want, and that might take a few days, F2P is always about balancing Time with Money in all respects. Choose one, the other of a mix of both...

I play primarily on Console and we don't get 75% discounts.

The triple A games I buy last a minimum of 60 hours.  If they have multiplayer then that is more than tripled. A new warframe does not give that kind of play time and costs more to boot.

[Carnage2K4]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I play primarily on Console and we don't get 75% discounts.

The triple A games I buy last a minimum of 60 hours.  If they have multiplayer then that is more than tripled. A new warframe does not give that kind of play time and costs more to boot.

Hmmm, well that's something for Microsoft to answer for... I not saying there are not AAA games that go for more than 20 hours, I'm saying there are an awful lot that don't.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

8 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

I'm saying there are an awful lot that don't.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

[Carnage2K4]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

More plat = less tea, higher tea price = even less tea if plat is bought...

[(PSN)DBR87]

5 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

Hmmm, well that's something for Microsoft to answer for... I not saying there are not AAA games that go for more than 20 hours, I'm saying there are an awful lot that don't.

I understand where you're coming from; there are a lot of people out there that pay $60 for games not worth that price. Depending on who you talk to, that could be Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed: Unity, or whatever is the latest game to bash.

Let me just talk about some the of the gaming purchases I made. I bought Batman: Arkham Knight(~$90), The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (~$90, and Xenoblade: Chronicles. X ($60)

I clocked in 60 hours in Batman with all the season pass goodies, I am still playing Witcher and have already put in 200 hours and Xenoblade I put in 110 hours.

Even I don't like Call of Duty but if someone plays PvP in CoD I can see why they would justify paying $140 for the game and all the DLC. 

Digital Extremes is placing their Prime Warframes at the same price as Batman: Arkham Knight if bought with the season pass and more expensive than a J RPG. You're paying for a Character and Two weapons...in any other game that would be around $10 ~ $30 of DLC. But in Warframe that is $90.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, Carnage2K4 said:

More plat = less tea, higher tea price = even less tea if plat is bought...

I am not sure if English is not your first language, but that phrase is not meant to be taken literally. It means what did what you just say have to do with the topic at hand. In this case, it means why do you think the fact that a bad game existing excuses another bad game/pricing.

Plus, you aren't even being truthful. I mean hell, CoD will release a map pack for like $20 and people will get more playtime out of that than most of use will get out of the gear DE is charging at least 5 times more for.  And no, you don't get to ignore the effect of CoD's multiplayer on it's playtime while trying to count replaying the same content we have been playing in WF as new just because we have a new prime.

If adding new frames and weapons in WF counts as new content then adding new weapons/maps in CoD does too, but at least CoD doesn't try to charge more than the full price game just for a few new weapons/maps.

[Carnage2K4]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

I understand where you're coming from; there are a lot of people out there that pay $60 for games not worth that price. Depending on who you talk to, that could be Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed: Unity, or whatever is the latest game to bash.

Let me just talk about some the of the gaming purchases I made. I bought Batman: Arkham Knight(~$90), The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt (~$90, and Xenoblade: Chronicles. X ($60)

I clocked in 60 hours in Batman with all the season pass goodies, I am still playing Witcher and have already put in 200 hours and Xenoblade I put in 110 hours.

Even I don't like Call of Duty but if someone plays PvP in CoD I can see why they would justify paying $140 for the game and all the DLC. 

Digital Extremes is placing their Prime Warframes at the same price as Batman: Arkham Knight if bought with the season pass and more expensive than a J RPG. You're paying for a Character and Two weapons...in any other game that would be around $10 ~ $30 of DLC. But in Warframe that is $90.

Yeah, but that's the path they have to chose for a free game, and it's why they are doing as well as they are, as ppl will buy it for that much, I know it feels... Not right... Seeing $150 for a frame, 2 weapons and some cosmetics, but in a F2P game respect you're also buying time back, that 20+ hours of farming... I dunno, I guess it's the price we pay to have options.

[Carnage2K4]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I am not sure if English is not your first language, but that phrase is not meant to be taken literally. It means what did what you just say have to do with the topic at hand. In this case, it means why do you think the fact that a bad game existing excuses another bad game/pricing.

Plus, you aren't even being truthful. I mean hell, CoD will release a map pack for like $20 and people will get more playtime out of that than most of use will get out of the gear DE is charging at least 5 times more for.  And no, you don't get to ignore the effect of CoD's multiplayer on it's playtime while trying to count replaying the same content we have been playing in WF as new just because we have a new prime.

If adding new frames and weapons in WF counts as new content then adding new weapons/maps in CoD does too, but at least CoD doesn't try to charge more than the full price game just for a few new weapons/maps.

Thanks for the explanation, my sentence was also not literal, it's a typical semi-sarcastic response in light of; 'well if you've been following the posts and how time is often a value point of the game, maybe you'd see the relevance' point of the posts and the inherent concept within the context of the F2P game industry, there is a point of suggesting that WF, given what IS out there, is not too bad on time for price in my opinion, and that many other companies make a lot of short games for a high cost to the buyer, the OP pointed out a few in his response to the same post of mine, difference being that he is following, while you, do not appear to be.

 

COD will release a map pack?

UT allows player created free maps...

 

As I said, I'm not suggesting that Every $60 game only gives 20 hours, or that only higher priced games give more, but that in the greater scheme of titles out there, WF would be in the mid to high range of price to time graph value even with the $150 prime access packs.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Carnage2K4

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

Digital Extremes is placing their Prime Warframes at the same price as Batman: Arkham Knight if bought with the season pass and more expensive than a J RPG. You're paying for a Character and Two weapons...in any other game that would be around $10 ~ $30 of DLC. But in Warframe that is $90.

Exactly.

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

10 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

Yeah, but that's the path they have to chose for a free game, and it's why they are doing as well as they are, as ppl will buy it for that much

If they were doing as well as you think, they would not have had to sell their company to a Chinese chicken producer, and they would not have had to continuously increase the grind to make people feel more and more obligated to purchase plat/PA.

[Serafim_94]

Yes but was it rewarding ? Yes.

F*** no it wasn't. Burning 15 MD keys to get useless crap like formas is anything but rewarding and fun.

Relics made it EASIER to get desired items. There are no "if" or "but" - it's easier and more directed.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Serafim_94

[xXDeadsinxX]

Yeah I agree with op, they need to change it back to the old system or make the new void system enjoyable and make it less boring. 

This new system is really boring and I don't like it. You have to farm so much and what if you radiant all of those relics, then you wasted those traces and what if you don't get what you wanted? You would have to farm all those traces and more relics and what if it happens again? This system is very terrible and needs to change soon.

[(PSN)DBR87]

8 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Yes but was it rewarding ? Yes.

F*** no it wasn't. Burning 15 MD keys to get useless crap like formas is anything but rewarding and fun.

Relics made it EASIER to get desired items. There are no "if" or "but" - it's easier and more directed.

Its far from more direct. You have to use Relics to farm traces to adjust drop rates. Before, we didn't have to farm traces to adjust drop rates. With keys Prime Parts had higher drop chances in different missions. As an example, Bronco P Link was more common in T3 capture than it was in T2 exterminate.

I will agree the player has more control on the drop chances, but it adds another layer of grind to the game. I wouldn't have much of a problem farming Traces if the didn't require Relics to obtain....and I have to farm relics....tof farm Traces...to adjust drop rates....to farm parts....that require Relics....that have to be farmed...

Plus those of us who like endless mission because they saved on Keys and you could get multiple parts from one endless key where royaly screwed. The new systems has glaring issues that need to be addressed.

Edited August 24, 2016 by (PS4)DBR87

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

4 hours ago, (PS4)BlinkLazy said:

well, you have four chances of anything on a single relic dropping thanks to the matchmaking system, which is at the moment flooded with people who are using nekros relics anyway. I hate to tell you but it isnt gonna change any time soon, as they have gone on to say many times. I personally think it benefits the player more ways than one, with a matchmaking option for relic farming, the ability to upgrade relics, and the fact relics are far more common than keys, leans in the favor of the relic system. WHile your opinion is valid, and it might not be better for you specifically, its very preferable to a greater audience of people who had been asking for a change to the void forever.

not to mention that this doesnt effect console players any differently than PC players, which makes the title of the post a bit missleading

10% for a radiant relic to drop is a joke dude XD

[Carnage2K4]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

If they were doing as well as you think, they would not have had to sell their company to a Chinese chicken producer, and they would not have had to continuously increase the grind to make people feel more and more obligated to purchase plat/PA.

LoL is/was one of the most successful games on record when it was almost fully acquired by a Chinese company, 1 company buying part of another company does not indicate that that company was in trouble in anyway, these acquisitions happen all the time in both successful and in trouble companies, thinking that it happens purely because a company is in trouble, is just ignorance, I think that kind of shows by you calling them a 'Chinese chicken producer' when it's a multi-subsidiary company, but well done on focusing on a single linked part of the larger company to make a derogatory comment...

Edited August 24, 2016 by Carnage2K4