Nullifiers the death of WF

[duhadventure]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Totally agree. Especially with the bubble thing being terrible. If you want them to cancel the bubble then at least make then have to hit frost instead.  Also make it so they stop clipping through the environment.

This happened as a bug before, and frosts were limited to staying inside of their bubbles afking or shooting because they didn't want to lose the bubbles. Also the new problem is there is no point in stacking snowglobe on Void/Corpus missions because it can be instantly destroyed, making your 50 casts of snowglobe health buffing for nothing.

[Skaleek]

Dramatic Thread Title much?

[Inarticulate]

16 minutes ago, duhadventure said:

This happened as a bug before, and frosts were limited to staying inside of their bubbles afking or shooting because they didn't want to lose the bubbles. Also the new problem is there is no point in stacking snowglobe on Void/Corpus missions because it can be instantly destroyed, making your 50 casts of snowglobe health buffing for nothing.

So stack 5 Snow Globes instead of 50 and recast when they reach 40% or so.

I just wish my Shadows of the Dead would stop voluntarily walking into Nullifier bubbles.

[IceColdHawk]

40 minutes ago, Flustershy said:

2nd Nullifiers just got nerfed and DE didn't even have to do that so instead of crying maybe a big thanks for the null nerf would go a long way.

Thanking for nothing? There is no nerf. I don't know why people assume that because there was written something in the patch notes. Do you even play the game and checked it out?

30 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Inaros' scarab armor. Chromas buffs. Frosts snowglobe. Titanias tributes. Rhinos iron skin. I could go on. Instantly deleting stacked abilities is the epitome of true cheapness. You can't just simply recast them.

To everyone else. I can only suggest bringing a quanta to missions where nullies get stacked in mass. It reduces lots of pain. Accepting that corpus isn't made to be fun and sniper or ability-friendly is the best way to go for now. Because i highly doubt there will be any true changes to nullifiers coming. 

[(XBOX)Lem0n Sama]

Really tired of the whole "But Nullifiers are easy to kill", or the "just run in there and melee" and the "just use your high RoF weapon" people. Nobody says Nullifiers are hard, nobody actually gets challenged by them. What they DO achieve, however, is enforcing and legitimizing player created metas and bullying. Many frames and weapons are worthless against Nullifiers, this enforces the already established meta of popular frames and weapons further, it makes the unpopular ones "worthless". Players who prefer playing the unpopular or non-meta frames and weapons (mostly due to prefered playstyle), literally see and hear their prefered selections get dumped on by the community on a regular basis, they're being bullied, and nobody notices (or seems to care) because it's been engraved and normalized by the community for so long we never take notice. Nullifiers enforce this meta and this bias. They're an outdated, uleless crutch, poorly designed, spawn much too frequenlty for an uncommon mob as of late, and wear too many hats. They also render specific frames and weapons absolutely useless.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Sebrent said:

If the answer to everything was "use more powers", things would get boring for many others ... and they'd ask "why do we even have weapons".

Nullifiers don't follow you around everywhere you go. Nullifiers are not in Grineer/Infested missions.

You have plenty of options from "kill them quickly" to "play Grineer / Infested missions".

On the contrary: for vets, Nullifiers are in every mission. Remember, Fissures spawn them, too.

So yes, we see them every mission, or close to it, every day.

[Sebrent]

@BlackCoMerc

I covered that in "grineer / infestation" missions. I do not count fissures as such since you get whatever the fissure wants to give you.

I wouldn't consider fissures "vet content". They are quite accessible to anyone IMO.

Additionally, if you're having trouble in fissure missions because a Nullifier got you, then the error is between your chair and keyboard as fissures are a cakewalk.

[BlackCoMerc]

20 minutes ago, Sebrent said:

@BlackCoMerc

I covered that in "grineer / infestation" missions. I do not count fissures as such since you get whatever the fissure wants to give you.

I wouldn't consider fissures "vet content". They are quite accessible to anyone IMO.

Additionally, if you're having trouble in fissure missions because a Nullifier got you, then the error is between your chair and keyboard as fissures are a cakewalk.

It's not that I'm.having trouble. Hardly. But if mocking me makes you feel manly...

It's that I'm annoyed.

As a vet, I see Nullifiers in over 90℅ of missions I run. Since I mostly do Fissures, outside of Syndicate stuff. Which means I mostly just play a generic third person shooter, with occasional power use.

It's getting tired and old. Not hard. Not challenging. Just boring and generic.

[Insizer]

Oh for god's sake. Why are people making larger mountains out of this speedbump? I understand why bow-users and such would be pissed, but "the death of warframe", seriously? People need to grow up.

We are capable of slaughtering entire battalions within 10 minutes using our abilities alone, nevermind our guns. We run with guns that will oneshot ourselves and our allies when a radiation proc hits us. We have sentinels that regen our shield whenever it gets depleted and have a couple mods which regen our health as well. If enemies want to permanently kill us they need to kill our companions then kill us and repeat 4 times (or is it infinity now, I forgot). We are basically physical gods. We are the very essence of overpowered, characters that in virtually any other game would be cause the playerbase to throw armed riots in front of the developer's headquarters and ask for the head of whoever ok'd this character. How in god's name is a basic defense bubble which disable on of the most OP factors we have, unfair or cancer for the game?

I like nullies because they one of the few units that capable of pushing us back, they make us change how we operate and make gameplay more interesting and hard.

[BlackCoMerc]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

 

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

2 hours ago, Insizer said:

I like nullies because they one of the few units that capable of pushing us back, they make us change how we operate and make gameplay more interesting and hard.

The main problem being that there are builds that trivialize nullifiers which makes builds that don't (I love snipers, but don't use them because everything I run has nullys) a waste of my time.

Yes we are OP but nullifiers have done nothing to curb that.

I flat out disagree that they add any sort of challenge or depth when they can be so easily trivialized.

I liked the game more when I didn't have to always use an anti-nully build.

Edited August 30, 2016 by (PS4)Final_Dragon01

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I prefer shotguns, and snipers over assault rifles. Nullys stopy powers and my weapons. Their not hard just incredibly annoying. In high lvl corpus and void missions...their everywhere.

 

Takes the fun factor out of warframe.

Edited August 30, 2016 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[RealPandemonium]

Nerf high rof weapons against Nullifier bubbles and buff slow weapons.  That's all that's needed.  

[Troll_Logic]

6 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It's getting tired and old. Not hard. Not challenging. Just boring and generic.

And if there were no nullifiers and you played the same missions on the same maps against the same enemies every day, how would things be different?

Before you reply with "But I could play with different warframes and different weapons", you can now.  No one is stopping you from equipping the warframne and weapons you want but you.

BTW, if warframe with nullifiers is

6 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It's getting tired and old. Not hard. Not challenging. Just boring and generic.

then wouldn't playing against nullifiers with different warframes and weapons be fresh?  New?  Hard?  Challenging?  Interesting and specific?

 

[Troll_Logic]

21 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Nerf high rof weapons against Nullifier bubbles and buff slow weapons.  That's all that's needed.  

Bubbles automatically nerf high RoF weapons.  Buffing slow weapons wouldn't help.

The nullifiers bubble steps down at a certain rate.  Any damage above what is needed is wasted.  In other words, you and I are playing against a nullifier and I shoot my soma and the bubble drops down a step.  You then shoot with your tigris prime that does 100X more damage, and you drop it down a step.

The nullifiers drops down in steps and any shots between those steps are wasted.  So I fire a at the nullifier and it drops a step.  The time between I shot the nullifier and the bubble is ready to drop down another step, any shots that hit the bubble are ignored.  So going full auto with the soma prime on the nullifier bubble wastes a lot of ammo.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Limbo....nuff said. Hes completely useless in a mission with heavy nully activity. Hes not a frame for everyone. Hes not a cheese frame. He is heavily dependent on his powers, as his stats leave little to be desired otherwise. In a mission with many nullifiers...hes literally worthless.

 

 

[RealPandemonium]

3 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Bubbles automatically nerf high RoF weapons.  Buffing slow weapons wouldn't help.

The nullifiers bubble steps down at a certain rate.  Any damage above what is needed is wasted.  In other words, you and I are playing against a nullifier and I shoot my soma and the bubble drops down a step.  You then shoot with your tigris prime that does 100X more damage, and you drop it down a step.

The nullifiers drops down in steps and any shots between those steps are wasted.  So I fire a at the nullifier and it drops a step.  The time between I shot the nullifier and the bubble is ready to drop down another step, any shots that hit the bubble are ignored.  So going full auto with the soma prime on the nullifier bubble wastes a lot of ammo.

That's not entirely true.  While the rate of shrinkage is fixed, it is possible to rapidly unload 15+ shots in an instant and then watch the bubble shrink all the way down without further interaction.  

Either way, high rof weapons are too good against nullifier bubbles while low rof weapons struggle to pop them.  Smoothing out these differences would stop people from being able to effectively ignore nullifiers while also ensuring that those who prefer slow weapons don't suffer for it.  

[Sebrent]

That video could have only been more of a waste of time if I'd heard the creators prepubescent voice spouting that uselessness. That said, I'm sure they could do just fine creating propaganda videos for any political institution. Those don't need any substance either.

Why does a game have to be one or the other? Why not allow "demi-godliness" in some scenarios and make you "work your &#! off" in some others .... or, "work harder" in some others. I don't see the issue with that.

The only complaint I think that is somewhat valid is how it punishes low RoF weapons. I think allowing those that are low RoF, single-target weapons to penetrate would be fine ... as it still handles the "AOE Spam" from certain weapons.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

2 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Before you reply with "But I could play with different warframes and different weapons", you can now.  No one is stopping you from equipping the warframne and weapons you want but you.

Yeah but using them is a massive waste of time which is unfun.

[_Vortus_]

Those that leave over a single enemy type were looking for an excuse so they could leave in a dramatic rage fit rather than just walk away.  If you cannot figure out how to beat a nullifier you should probably spend more time in game or the simulcrum figuring out better ways to kill them.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

6 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Those that leave over a single enemy type were looking for an excuse so they could leave in a dramatic rage fit rather than just walk away.  If you cannot figure out how to beat a nullifier you should probably spend more time in game or the simulcrum figuring out better ways to kill them.

I would tell you to 'Git Gud' since you believe nullifiers provide any kind of challenge.  But that would be as unproductive as your comment.

Point being that people have valid complaints and concerns about nullifiers, but if you try to just write that off as incompetence we can't have a discussion and you will be ignored.

 

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I would tell you to 'Git Gud' since you believe nullifiers provide any kind of challenge.

Nullifiers don't necessarily provide the challenge; they allow the challenge to exist.  As long as all enemies on the map are neutered by mass CC and other cheese, there can be no challenge.  Bandaids maybe, but that's the reality.  

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

7 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Nullifiers don't necessarily provide the challenge; they allow the challenge to exist.  As long as all enemies on the map are neutered by mass CC and other cheese, there can be no challenge.  Bandaids maybe, but that's the reality.  

Please keep in mind that comment was directed specifically at him because he was being 'non-productive.'

But to your point, I disagree with you.  There is still no challenge.  I assume you are referring to the fact nullifiers protect units like the heavy gunner and the bombard.  It's still standard strat to spam CC, kill the nullifiers, spam more CC, then proceed as normal.  It's barely a change for an experienced team.  My problem is that snipers are seven times worse at killing nullifiers at long range than something like the boltor or quanta.  I would not care about them if I could use any weapon class I wanted.

I hate them because they make the weapons I like pointless and when I complain about that people tell me I'm not good enough to kill them.  The entire nullifier debate is a massive circular Catch 22.

[LtZefar]

I must be playing an entirely different game because Nullifiers are not a threat to me. They are so easy to deal with and easy to spot. So the moment I see a Nullifier I start shooting at it.

I tend to use Vaykor Hek, Ignis, Synoid Simulor and Boltor Prime. For secondary I use Lex Prime. But I can easily take them down. I just don't see the issue people are having.

If you let Nullifiers get close enough to your Frost bubble you are obviously not putting a high priority on killing them. Yes it might not be as effective for sniper rifles to deal with them but a sniper rifle shouldn't counter everything. Much like how the turrets placed around the map are almost indestructible against damage from the front on higher level and the turret itself can dish out KO type of damage in under a second. So only explosive or area effect weapons are good vs them.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

23 minutes ago, LtZefar said:

Yes it might not be as effective for sniper rifles to deal with them but a sniper rifle shouldn't counter everything.

Again the problem is that stuff that was already universally good like the soma and boltor are just as good against nullifiers.  Snipers were already bad and were made worse.  I can't possibly see how making the good stuff better and the bad stuff worse is a good thing.

Ramparts are a non-issue because they don't also nullify your powers.