Rakta dark dagger feedback.

[RIOT]

Pros:

 

High damage (for daggers)
High attack speed (again, for daggers)
Has a stance slot that actually matches a stance.
Can use syndicate mod (bug?)

Neutral:

 

Radiation damage.
Is a dagger.

Cons:

 

No innate syndicate effect (this also applies to all other syndicate melees at the moment)
passives are either useless or bugged(more in depth explanation down below)

After running some tests, the "reduced visibility" passive doesn't seem to work (tested both in solo missions and in simulacrum) so either it's just flavor text or bugged.

The shield regain is pretty useless outside of covert lethality, roughly 5% of your damage will be added back onto shields

 

interesting note * bleed procs from charged attacks will also have damage converted to shields

 which is pretty meh considering that A) the target must have a rad status on it. B)the weapon has low damage and status to begin with and low range which equates to a low number of targets being effected by the status at a given time.

By the time enemies could actually survive enough hits to proc a rad status, they would be doing enough damage to shields to null out the shield regain from my attacks, this basically makes the effect useless unless you are using a frame with abilities that have a dedicated finisher effect (inaros, excalibur, etc).

I would highly suggest the following:
Increasing the conversion rate to 20 - 50% or raise damage to 75 - 100.
raise status chance to 15 - 25%
Or
Just raise crit damage / chance to 20% and 2x respectively.

Just my 2 ducats
 

Edited September 16, 2016 by RIOT

[GinKenshin]

well, these are the first of their kind (kinda) so I think DE went safe and gave them horrible stats (passive stats I mean), feedback is critical at this point and yours is good, hope they hear it 

I'm fine with the weapon stats though, not everything needs to be crit/status 

[Burnthesteak87]

"Reduced Visibility" passive works sometimes yes, sometimes not.
You can realize that when you can pass in front of enemies which won't detect you. Maybe it's based on Light/Shadow.
Also this seems to make Syndicate Proxies AOE (through the Syndicate Dark Dagger mod) to alert some enemies, and others not: most of them will get the Aoe damage, cover, but they're still up for stealth finishers.

I can't really understand how BAD and UNINSPIRED the Game Design is:

■ Why giving a stealth-oriented weapon a sustain passive giving Overshields while hitting a Radiation procced target? Without considering that Rakta Dark Dagger isn't a Status weapon...
■ How come I am harder to detect if I wield a dagger than just having it on its sheat? Is it an extraordinary weapon? Cause its stats doesn't show so..

Also weapon stats are terrible... Rakta Dark Dagger isn't stronger than a Shiv...

Edited September 16, 2016 by Burnthesteak87

[PhantomCrosz]

regarding the "reduced visibilty", you've only tested it both on 1-player only situation and not on multi-player situation.
Perhaps it is because the "reduced visibility" directly translate to lower aggro levels in game logic, thus it will have no effect on 1-player only situations because you are the only target available for the enemy (maybe, just a thought)

[Buttaface]

It's garbage, let's not beat around the bush. Whoever thought that DAGGER USERS in Warframe would want more overshields needs their head examined, and WTH is "reduced visibility" anyway? Utterly useless in a game with Ivara, Loki, Ash, blinds, naramon. Mind-boggling.

The datamining on this weapon looked great. Increased movement speed that dagger users really need due to short range and increased attack speed, also useful for daggers. Instead we got this inexplicable POS design fail. Whatever. Game continues to decline due to poor design choices.

I guess the good news is that NONE of these poorly thought out and implemented syndicate melee weapons are even sidegrades to the existing top tier melees so no need to forma a bunch of new weapons, just get the mastery and delete.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Buttaface

[RIOT]

1 minute ago, PhantomCrosz said:

regarding the "reduced visibilty", you've only tested it both on 1-player only situation and not on multi-player situation.
Perhaps it is because the "reduced visibility" directly translate to lower aggro levels in game logic, thus it will have no effect on 1-player only situations because you are the only target available for the enemy (maybe, just a thought)

I assumed that "reduced visibility" would lower the range the enemy would actually be able to see/detect the player.

If it's based off an aggro system and just simply makes you less likely to be attacked, then they need to update the description to reflect that.

[zehne]

• If the over-shields were simply applied on attack instead of on attack to rad procced enemy then they would actually be decent.
• If the damage was higher this weapon might be somewhat viable for melee attacks outside of CL
• If the above two were true we could slap on the dark dagger mod and life strike
  • Then we could have a dagger that restores shields + health + energy
    • Would be a true 'utility' weapon then.

 

[That1Cactus]

The "reduced visibility" is practically meaningless. I tried it on both solo and public matches and enemies still aggro just like they do without the dagger.

[ShocK.-]

what a wasted chance of making at least one good dagger, give it more crit pleaseee... or do something different and make it a channeling weapon with high channeling damage and low channeling efficiency. I agree it needs a buff. (not tried the other ones yet)

[yeti_fan]

I feel like just raising the crit to even a modest 15% would be an incredibly easy way to make this weapons passives have any sort of logic.

The base damage actually isn't that low. considering cl can be equipped.

Do you realize how absurd it is to ask a player to proc an enemy with a specific status using a range-less, low damage, clunky stanced, no crit dagger, before perfoming a one-shot finisher just to get some useless shileds?

[Nazrethim]

46 minutes ago, ShocK.- said:

what a wasted chance of making at least one good dagger, give it more crit pleaseee... or do something different and make it a channeling weapon with high channeling damage and low channeling efficiency. I agree it needs a buff. (not tried the other ones yet)

We now have two good daggers actually: Rakta Dark Dagger and Karyst.

I only find the "Shield on Rad proc'ed enemy" clunky, but overall I'm fine with it's reduced visibility (because I know the difference between "playing stealthy" and "going rambo with while invisible", not everyone plays with Loki or Ivara). About the lack of AoE damage? totally awesome.

[zehne]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

We now have two good daggers actually: Rakta Dark Dagger and Karyst.

Rakta is very low damage compared to sheev (because it's the status master-race due to IPS (slash heavy) and high status chance).

The only + sides to Rakta is that it has 'utility', but that utility is arguably bad because shields are paper thin and the rate of generation and method of Rakta is bad.

[Zanoza-chan]

No syndicate effect on syndicate weps... disappointing.

Update [DE]lay has started to mean [DE]creasing quality of new content?

I still can put some formas and make something able to kill. But I can't see for what have we waited so much time. For incomplete weapons with minor stats improvements?

Waiting for reasonable fix.

[Zanoza-chan]

On 16.09.2016 at 9:14 AM, Zanoza-chan said:

No syndicate effect on syndicate weps... disappointing.

Update [DE]lay has started to mean [DE]creasing quality of new content?

I still can put some formas and make something able to kill. But I can't see for what have we waited so much time. For incomplete weapons with minor stats improvements?

Waiting for reasonable fix.

Was wrong about that. I needed some time to think about the stats more attentively. I'm sorry.

[Misgenesis]

Pretty sure the reduced visibility works so that it reduces the distance before enemies see you.

[SergeiTheBeast]

On 9/15/2016 at 8:59 PM, Buttaface said:

It's garbage, let's not beat around the bush. Whoever thought that DAGGER USERS in Warframe would want more overshields needs their head examined, and WTH is "reduced visibility" anyway? Utterly useless in a game with Ivara, Loki, Ash, blinds, naramon. Mind-boggling.

The datamining on this weapon looked great. Increased movement speed that dagger users really need due to short range and increased attack speed, also useful for daggers. Instead we got this inexplicable POS design fail. Whatever. Game continues to decline due to poor design choices.

I guess the good news is that NONE of these poorly thought out and implemented syndicate melee weapons are even sidegrades to the existing top tier melees so no need to forma a bunch of new weapons, just get the mastery and delete.

That is painfully true. Daggers in general are awful. I really wish DE would put a bit more thought into stuff like this. That being said, I know they're probably overworked but sheesh guys.

[I3jionaa]

On ‎2016‎.‎09‎.‎16 at 3:43 AM, RIOT said:

After running some tests, the "reduced visibility" passive doesn't seem to work (tested both in solo missions and in simulacrum) so either it's just flavor text or bugged.

 

 

On ‎2016‎.‎09‎.‎16 at 3:55 AM, PhantomCrosz said:

regarding the "reduced visibilty", you've only tested it both on 1-player only situation and not on multi-player situation.
Perhaps it is because the "reduced visibility" directly translate to lower aggro levels in game logic, thus it will have no effect on 1-player only situations because you are the only target available for the enemy (maybe, just a thought)

So played with this dagger a little bit in index endurance, soloing. Obiviously specters around. There is only one group of enemies there 3 of 4 enemies there u can ground slam and enter finisher animation. Ved xol, nako xol , pelna cade and lockjaw & soul (zanuka unit cant pefrom finisher on this one, only fatal teleport ash can do it). Tried other daggers and it seems only grand slam -> finisher works, while rakta dark dagger performs finisher just by pressing E E E near enemy. And u do not even need to be stealthed, worked with rhino mesa, and without ground slam. Something is going on with that agro and rakta dagger passive.

It does not always work perfectly all the time, u have to roll away from enemy sometimes, and engage back on it, sometimes just fast approaching enemy(hes looking at u) and pressing E E E directly goes into finisher, but man oh man, rakta dark dagger againts this particular index group, probably one of the best experience in entire time i spend playing WF. Cause it felt like u trully a freaking ninja.

Other daggers like sheev seems to unable to perform only E E E finisher like whatsoever, tried it with radation, later with heat, with no avail, while also trying to reengage after rolling away from enemy etc. Using just Heat as extra elemental on rakta dark dagger and then standart build (covert lethality, fury, weaping wounds, do not think it matters actually).

Have not really tried it like anythere else, since u do not get that high levels directly upon entering mission, but once u get the hang of those E E E only finishers, its so satisfying.

Edit: tried it out in rathuum arena enemies are immune to ground slam so nothing there, normal not solo survival capture excavation, seems do not work either, have a feeling enemies must have really specific objective like kill and collect only then it works. Anyways here 's the list of enemies in index on those this strange thing works: ved xol , nako xol , pelna cade , jad teran , m-wam. Try it out once index is back, if it did not worked for me from very first approach on enemy, i just proced rad on him, rolled away and came back again mashing E and it just goes into finishers.

Edited October 27, 2016 by I3jionaa
Futher testing

[Doomsknightmare]

And another fact that limits its use is there's a maximun oversheild limit, which makes it look like a joke. As I tested it, you can only get 1940 maximum oversheild when your base sheild is 740, and a lv100 heavy gunner can still shred you into pieces within seconds.  

[RealPandemonium]

Protip: if your feedback looks like "This doesn't let me melt level 100 super-enemies in seconds, so it's useless" then it's not helping.