Lack of challenge on low and mid level missions causes players to choose intrusive styles of game play

[AdunSaveMe]

7 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

And im fine with the "changes", but to act as if they arent nerfs is not cool to me. I dont mind stopping the whole "homer's drinking bird can play for you" style of gameplay, but not considering them hard nerfs is not ok with me. 

When you add a really bugged out line of sight check to abilities that dont need it, thats a nerf. 

When you make it where the amount of damage you used to be able to deal in one key press gets spread out across at least 2 other abilities (inflating its cost in the process) thats a nerf to me. 

 

Like I said, I dont mind the changes, I actually like the ones to Saryn because they show how useful and creative you can be with spores, just know that they ARE nerfs. 

I know they're nerfs. Obviously. Acting as if all nerfs are bad simply because they're nerfs is not cool to me.

[DSpite]

40 minutes ago, Zerakh_Ezekhiel said:

Does anyone here recognize what I'm referring to?

I know exactly what you are referring to, I'm just not sure what can be done about it. The game itself is the one throwing low level Alerts at us all the time, and players know the enemy scaling well, and know that even a low damage WoF from Ember kills everything, so why not mod for maximum range and lowest cost instead?

... and then everything in a 1 mile radius just dies, as she runs through.

I say let them, after all DE knows this happens and the rewards are scaled appropriately - read that as "low" - because of low effort.

If anything, I'd like to see new missions types with restrictions, or at least mutators or "requirements" that make players totally re-do builds in order to get in. There should be zones that cater to people that just want constant power creep and players that want to actually "run a mission", I just don't know exactly what needs to be done to do so.

As much as it can be a laugh taking OP8 weapons into a Level 72 Play-through-2 mission run in Borderlands 2, it does not really get you anything, so people don't do it. In here, even just wiping a Level 5 map over and over with an OP build actually gets usable resources, so people do it. Probably why Exterminate is so popular.

[Yagamilight123]

29 minutes ago, YubelsDisaster said:

I definitely have problems with this as well.
That be: players rushing through the entire mission or using a frame that's just stupid and takes away the fun.
For low to mid levels these frames are things like Ember (or just players in general who rush missions) but even when doing sorties there's a particular frame that just takes away all fun and there's no reason for me to even be in the squad. In fact to play this frame you don't need any kind of skill, you build it in a specific way, start a mission and press 4. 
I'm talking about Ash, worst part of it is that apperantly while an enemy is targetted by his 4th ability, you do less damage to that enemy while unless he's riding their face they can attack you as normal. 

And tho I really hate frames like Ember that just runs from start to finish, letting you pretty much pick off their leftovers. I've never ever ragequitted any of those missions while I left sortie missions that were nearly finished just because I was sitting their doing nothing because some guy/girl who clearly lacks any skill and dignity, someone that can only play something that requires just one button otherwise their brain would meltdown, with a build clearly stolen from the online community, decided to be an A****** and take away all the fun out of the game for other players by playing Ash. I can tolerate every other frame no matter how stupid it's build. But Ash has almost pushed me so far that I've been considering to just stop playing (or just go solo ALL the time).

I sometimes go back to do low level missions just to either test things out or to relax a bit and when I see a newer player I try to slow it down as much as I can so he/she can actually learn the game, enjoy the game cuz it can be fun but when you as a beginner start and there are these experienced players doing everything and rushing everything, it not only takes away the fun and their learning experience but also demotivate them from continueing the game.

I started less than 2 months ago ... i never feel "demotivate them from continueing the game" ... if some player are doing all the job it's motivate me a lot more to learn and reach that player performance :S . As for learning , you have A LOT of mission that nobody plays (while you are unlocking planets) to learn without "top tier" people/frames .

[LABAL]

You know, I used to be a shameless speedrunner until recently. Now I'm just slowly walking around, looking for bottl... stars to collect, opening every single locker in a mission. And this is so much worth it!

[Lady-Alison]

3 minutes ago, Yagamilight123 said:

I started less than 2 months ago ... i never feel "demotivate them from continueing the game" ... if some player are doing all the job it's motivate me a lot more to learn and reach that player performance :S . As for learning , you have A LOT of mission that nobody plays (while you are unlocking planets) to learn without "top tier" people/frames .

When you start out and can barely move and see someone way beyond what you even knew was possible in this game it can either motivate you to try your best or demotivate you because you think you'll never reach that point. I personally have a lot of problems with being motivated to do anything at all so I easily get demotivated by these things. Depends from person to person. 
And while it's a plus that you can do these missions solo it's also a bit bad for missions that you can't clear solo or have trouble doing so, finding help for these missions isn't always the easiest thing. Of course learning to know people, being part of a clan, etc does increase your chances in getting help for these missions.

[Ginyama]

It is true that, for one, there is like 30% of new players who devote themselves in paying plats. As a result, they buy in weapons that they should have  not be getting earlier in the game. Usually, they immediately intrude the enemies, just to experiment their new, unranked weapon. It has a purpose, true, in low tier missions, but if it is used as a general purpose, it partly defeats the purpose of grinding. 

As a veteran player (who stopped playing for 2 years during the old Updates), from time to time, we will be having new equipment, as more content are being released. Some may grind their own weapon in like Akkad (or any other affinity grind node, idk...) Some will just grind the normal and conventional way, as the game intentionally has been. In the end, it is just the play style of each player.  Whether they like it stealth or gung-ho.

 

[Ginyama]

19 minutes ago, LABAL said:

You know, I used to be a shameless speedrunner until recently. Now I'm just slowly walking around, looking for bottl... stars to collect, opening every single locker in a mission. And this is so much worth it!

I totally agree with you. A true Scavenger Hunt. (Unlike Kuria...)

[Chipputer]

So...

... a high leveled player joins a low leveled mission and they can roflstomp everything in it?

Sounds like business as usual. So, what next? Should my maxed out Tigris Prime tickle level 1 enemies so that a newbie doesn't lose out on killing something in a low level Nitain alert? No. If I want to bring the strongest weapons to the weakest enemy areas, I should obliterate them.

Lucky for you, I run those missions either solo or with a Nekros that only uses Desecrate and is equipped with weapons that you can buy with credits.

[enJohneering]

Those mission absolutely are a nessicary evil to grind out simple things to move on to more interesting challenges. I don't play alerts anymore because none of the rewards are worth the time it takes to run from spawn to extract. Alerts are a crapchute of gameplay anyway, where you just blitz an easy mission for some better than average rewards. If you're a new player, you shouldn't be doing only those missions, and seeing something that powerful can be a great motivator to play more and gear up.

Even if they don't, figuring out the absolute fastest way to complete a mission is almost a gamemode in itself, the art of the speed-run if you will. I've used ember for quick kills, Telos Boltace and Ash for quick movement and AOE, Titania and movement mods for fastest jumps for quick travel, etc. I do wish that we had higher level endurance runs for a ton of void traces in order to move away from those t1 missions, but I don't mind it entirely. 

No, I would argue that it is uncommon to find a high-level player in many of the easy missions newbs play. From my experience, most of the time they are fighting alone without the cheese we have access to just to get the next weapon or rank. Even the issue you mention with fissures, I'd say that the increased mob spawning creates enough npc damage around the map that the newest players seem to stay away.

Now, would it be nice if the highest level missions also gave the same convenient time-to-resource efficiency that everyone achieves by cheesing low level content? Yes, but I don't think trying to penalize or nerf effective play or use of mechanics in low level missions in the solution. 

[Zerakh_Ezekhiel]

12 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Lucky for you, I run those missions either solo or with a Nekros that only uses Desecrate and is equipped with weapons that you can buy with credits.

What is the reason for you to do so? Perhaps it is possible to make that a reason for most players.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Sounds like we need high level lith and meso nodes to go alongside the low level ones. The high MR players will likely take the tougher nodes for the increased affinity and high tier cache rewards.  Those high level players wouldn't be there if they had a choice to go somewhere else for better rewards in exchange for increased mission diffculty.

[Chipputer]

4 hours ago, Zerakh_Ezekhiel said:

What is the reason for you to do so? Perhaps it is possible to make that a reason for most players.

You're not going to convince people to help newbies farm for resources and babysit them, rather than get what they need in a quick, efficient manner. It just won't happen.