The Controlled Strain Theory [ SD spoilers]

[Slamminslug]

So. Warframes... the nature of their existence has been an enigma to us players for a good while, with this lack of understanding only multiplied with the advent of the second dream. What are they? Why is their nature so ambiguous? Why do the codices have to be so goddamn vague? Hopefully I can shed some light on their possible physical makeup, if only to a basic extent.

The Technocyte.  ok, ok, now hear me out, a lot of people have already tried shooting this down, but my take on this is a little bit different than anything I've read thus far. 

True, the chance that the RAW technocyte that we fight in-game has a low chance of being what the frames are composed of, due to their highly feral, uncontrollable nature when in mobile colonies. HOWEVER, there are examples of what i believe to be INERT technocyte colonies inside of the preserved orokin towers and other structures. These colonies appear to be a bright, nearly pale white in color, and, once visiting the moon tileset, are observed to project light, meaning they are either having a current run through them, or, they are constantly undergoing some form of chemical reaction internally.

Spoiler

This means the Orokin used this refined strain of technocyte for utility purposes within their void-based and other off-world locations. Primarily, the white TC can be seen running through the ceiling on multiple occasions, possibly being used to shunt power throughout the tower, seeing as this isn't a particularly nice to look at shape, but has some reason to exist if this is the use of such a structure. I personally have also noted that nearly ALL the LIGHT SOURCES in the void are WHITE. meaning that the lights we see may be bulbs fabricated from this TC, causing it's bio-luminescence to be magnified and multiplied going from a tame dull glow to a full on lamp.

Spoiler

it can be observed that the white technocyte is also used in either cosmetic OR oxygen refining purposes, seeing the tree shaped modules, which would be great for capitalizing on surface area if the latter purpose were factual.

Spoiler

This also makes sense, seeing as there are no other plant like organisms in the towers, and we know the orokin weren't the only ones on the towers. The lore goes on record as saying the Grineer were present on the towers on one of the imprints, and we KNOW they have to breathe.

Further supporting the possibility that this is a very TC esque substance, in the derelict tileset, it can be observed that despite the fact that the feral TC HAS laid roots throughout the majority of the facility, the feral growth tends to be centered around this white substance, which was my basis for believing it to be technocyte in the first place. the only reason it'd cling to this so much is because of an inherent ease of reclamation for the feral strain, since the cellular makeup is already so near identical.

Spoiler

Additionally, a partially converted pathway can be observed below.

Spoiler

see? the old white technocyte, though faded, can easily be seen near the base of this growth, meaning the infested really is growing through these structures, as opposed to just choosing to be shaped the same way.

But why is this refined technocyte important? well. I'm glad you asked.

 

 

As far as we know,the warframes meet a few operational requirements in order to be classified as such.

• Warframes have a need for breathable air, even though the true composition is unknown.
• Warframes have a (possibly) operational circulatory system, seeing as when struck, they bleed.
• Warframes can be fabricated from our trusty old 3-D space printer, with the aid of acquired resources.
• Warframes are very very resilient to change, and appear to have an indefinite shelf life, seeing as we can leave them in storage with no negative side effects.
• Warframes APPEAR to have a very limited degree of free will, as seen in the Second Dream, even if somewhat primal.
• Finally Warframes can be reclaimed/reconstituted. even when COMPLETELY DESTROYED in a mission.

So. there aren't a great deal many materials shown to us in game that can be manipulated in this way, a human body NOT being one of them. but why technocyte then? why is it closer to these parameters?

• Technocyte colonies that are independent of the larger cluster MUST NEED some form of oxygen intake in order for the muscular organs in their makeup to undergo aerobic movements, meaning they need air.
• Smaller clusters of RAW technocyte bleed when struck, much like a Warframe, and seem to have operational circulatory systems.
• Technocyte is a very dynamic material, capable of twisting flesh and metal to meet new, unintended purposes. as such, it may be the foundation for the foundry's capability range.
• Small and large technocyte colonies have gone COMPLETELY UNCHANGED for 10,000 years, as lotus says the derelict was around for a millennium before your arrival, and infested ancients (sentient fighters) are still present. Yeah, they don't rot too quickly it seems.
• Obviously, these feral bastards can think, no doubt about it.
• IF warframes are in fact technocyte, then the foundry would have no problem spinning them up, and, once the shape and specifications are met for an individual form, rebuilding it would be fairly simple with the tech at the tenno's disposal.

Though with all that in mind, there is still more. one very specific piece of evidence. the Rhino prime codex entry.

" I have seen this monster before. I have cut its shell and eviscerated its brothers. I have given it pain and measured its response. I have crafted then rejected countless like it. But I've never seen this beast so close, without the shield, without restraints."

This excerpt tells of the orokin (scientist?)'s familiarity with this hulking beast, saying he poked and prodded at them and saw their reactions. I have reason to believe that this "Beast" is a feral colony of technocyte cells that the orokin were experimenting on, maybe trying to improve, seeing as the initial exposure of TC to the sentient was met with utter failure.

The beast squats down, shovelling a heap of gore into its mouth. It is watching me with vague eyes, a sense of recognition, ancestral memory. It knows who I am and what I've done. It rears up like a bear and roars, shattering the lights and casting us into darkness. I can hear it lumbering toward me, its metal fingers rending the walls, but I know I am dead. I close my eyes and stand ready to pay. 

We know that this thing is mad, but it is also wildly animalistic, seeing as it has consumed that which it has killed. not behavior I'd be surprised to see out of the infested. the "ancestral eyes" and "sense of recognition" show that this thing is aware and alive, capable of thought ant judgement. though it "uses" abilities we know and love from rhino; Roar, Iron skin: these may just be innate traits/abilities of this TC colony, which were made into the rhino model. Dynamically modifying flesh into "metal fingers" is well within TC's capabilities.

But here's the linking kicker:

 The beast fills the doorway, inches from him, dripping in blood, but still without violence. It stands there, looking at its hands. "This is where they keep them. The ones from Zariman." Davis turns to me, a smile forming he turns back to the beast now SILENT AND CALM. 

This rampaging monster, filled with fury, rage and primal hatred, comes to a grinding halt before the tenno. it may already be under transference, or just have a high affinity for their presence. EITHER WAY, this TC colony has recognized the tenno's presence and is now standing down. this means that rogue TC colonies will flock to a tenno, as seen in derelict missions.

 

Ok slam, you're off to a good start, so what now?

WELL, GLAD YA ASKED, AGAIN.

THIS:

Spoiler

Has anyone else noticed that this refined TC is present in the orbiter, being used as a transference relay no less? transference signals can be shunted THROUGH THIS JUNK, meaning that the reservoir within the second dream quest didn't feature those white arms for aesthetic appeal alone. these white arms may actually be the CANON medium for transference signals, whether they be technocyte or not.

so, we have an uncanny resemblance between a warframe and a small feral TC colony, A rabid, crazy "beast" from the rhino codex, a freely moving warframe in the second dream, and both RAW and REFINED versions of technocyte seen in game.

 

My thoughts are, with all this in mind, that the beast in the rhino codex was an organism cultivated by the orokin overseeing the technocyte program, and it was part of a large production run. but something went awry, and instead of being set loose on the sentient, the beast broke free of it's binds and tore its way through every orokin operative, only ceasing it's tirade once it reached the tenno.

with this in mind, the orokin went to work, making these beasts more and more tame, in order for the tenno to be able to exert their will over them with more finesse, making a cleaner, more refined strain of TC, expressly for the use of transference. as the TC's programming was stripped away, so too did it's hostility, to the point where the colony would remain almost completely inert, save for self preservation.

these new, clean colonies would become the basis for a new weapon, stronger and trainable, thanks to tenno mind, the Warframe.

 

this would explain quite a few things:

• Lephantis and other infested bosses refer to you as "our flesh" which would be true.
• lotus says in the mesa quest "There is no tenno in there any longer, only a shell of infested flesh." keyword being any longer, meaning at one point tenno and technocyte were present.
• if this white TC actually does transference, the neural sentry makes a lot more sense now.
• Alad V says "trust me, iv'e seen the inside of a warframe and it doesn't make any sense" which sounds accurate, because in his standing, he wouldn't have much exposure to the refined TC
• this dulled technocyte would have done just enough to protect itself in the second dream by removing the foreign object (war) before going back to an idle state.

 

So yeah, all in all, my bet is the warframes ARE in fact technocyte, just not the type we are used to dealing with.

 

 

ADDENDUM:

its actually fairly possible that the "clean" TC was the first to have ever been made, as a sort of scientific trump card for construction in the unknown hellscape that is the void. The feral strain may have been whipped up from the utility version in a hurry in order to potentially deal with the sentient, turning a tool into a weapon, much like dynamite. this would explain why we see the clean TC in the towers, even though the sentient didn't attack until long after the orokin had assets in the void, meaning the need for a feral strain wouldn't be there...

Edited September 29, 2016 by Slamminslug

[bowiespoon]

Very interesting, but how do you explain the fact that the warframes insides were red, not white, after it ripped war out of itself?

[Slamminslug]

well. that's easy. what living thing is the same color on the inside as it is on the outside? humans aren't pink/black/whathaveyou internally, we're all red. same with feral TC. infested ancients used to be sentients, which don't bleed, but when carved up they are also red. the red from blood is caused by oxidized iron within the mixture. if there is any sort of a circulatory system present, when severed it'll spew red.

Also, as a footnote. there's no reason the militarized version of the "clean" TC has to be white, seeing as it isn't being used for lighting any longer.

[(XBOX)chillichillman]

YES! finally, someone who understands my reasoning! but I did not really pay much attention to the stuff in the focus room.  Thought it was just a mist.

And what are your opinions on the first warframes being suits, not puppets?

[xer096]

This would also make sense as far as the chat feature. It's well established that the infested are a hivemind, swapping information with little to no actual communication. So if you could harness this refined technocyte for transference purposes this would perfectly explain why Tenno can carry on conversations about whatever and never be heard even when they're no where near each other.

[Slamminslug]

The first sets COULD HAVE very well been suits. and would have not featured any sort of transference, but rather may have been piloted by dax honor guard members or something. The problem with this is the production value of prime warframes was likely immense, as they had to be tailored to specific bodies and dimensions. 

Additionally, a human JUST CANT MOVE like a technocyte colony can, so they probably weren't nearly as effective as the tenno driven counterparts.

so by going from suits to remote controlled drones you save dax lives, save cost of development since dimensions are basically irrelevant, and they become more agile and effective since the operator's experience isn't lost with a death, it only grows.

the suits probably weren't called warframes, that's likely the name given to the full system

if this were the case Warframes would have been a VERY CONVENIENT MARRIAGE of three otherwise useless assets

• The tenno
• The practically useless dax suits
• The uncontrollable, feral technocyte

Edited September 29, 2016 by Slamminslug

[SquigFace]

Heyy.... that's pretty good!

[Ironelle]

I do not disagree with OPs conclusion that WarFrames are to some extent infested, however those white roots could just as easily be bio mechanical, not containing any technocyte or nano bots.  Also There is no reason to believe that all nanobot colonies are are technocyte.  Isn't it just as equally possible that there are many other types of nanobot technology used completely unrelated to technocyte?

When I see the white roots, they look to me like a biomechanical network, fashioned in the manner of a nervous system, or tree roots maybe.  There is no proof, but to me it looks like DE's representation of a far future computer interface.  Why wouldn't they be found in all those orokin rooms if that is what they are?

They could also be a means by which void corruption occurs, i.e. they are the neural sentry. I think it is notable that they are found behind the operators chair as well and we know that Warframes are immune to the Neural Sentry.  Maybe that is because the warframe is already "corrupted" through transference by the operator's Neural Sentry.

All jsut speculation though.  Cheers!

 

[BornWithTeeth]

The thing about the first warframes being suits and not puppets is somewhat popular, but is rather shot down by the Rhino Prime codex, the Second Dream Void imprints, and the Saryn and Vauban monologues from Ballas. It is very clear, based on that data, that Transference came first, that it is what led to weaponised Tenno using Warframes, and that [at least] several of the Warframes were designed and completed after Margulis' death. 

 

Now, that is not to say that the aesthetics of the Prime Warframes were not based on existing Dax suits. However, going by what Ballas said, Dax suits =/= Warframes. Remember, these are not Dax soldiers. They are golems, possessed by devil minds.

[Slamminslug]

@Ironelle I had actually considered the fact that those white tendrils weren't technocyte, but if that was the case, what would be the purpose of the tree like structures? I suppose it isn't impossible that it's a non TC type of nanobot, but why would the orokin bother with simple nanobots when TC is already capable of moving currents, shaping matter, and so, so much more?

It is an interesting point that the tendrils' primary function is data movement, which would bolster @xer096's post about the in-game chat. but it's linkage to transference seems too significant to ignore.

my biggest counter to the "computer network" theory is the orokin have many many terminals in the towers that are completely disconnected from these white structures. and "computer core" rooms can be seen in the towers, they have a very electrifying presence.

overall its a nice challenge to the theory, and i appreciate it, not that it matters, this isn't canon until DE makes it so or untrue. :P

[Meliq]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The thing about the first warframes being suits and not puppets is somewhat popular, but is rather shot down by the Rhino Prime codex, the Second Dream Void imprints, and the Saryn and Vauban monologues from Ballas. It is very clear, based on that data, that Transference came first, that it is what led to weaponised Tenno using Warframes, and that [at least] several of the Warframes were designed and completed after Margulis' death. 

 

Now, that is not to say that the aesthetics of the Prime Warframes were not based on existing Dax suits. However, going by what Ballas said, Dax suits =/= Warframes. Remember, these are not Dax soldiers. They are golems, possessed by devil minds.

The thing that strikes me is that none of the items have to be false.. it is possible this is true...

 

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 9:00 PM, Slamminslug said:

if this were the case Warframes would have been a VERY CONVENIENT MARRIAGE of three otherwise useless assets

• The tenno
• The practically useless dax suits
• The uncontrollable, feral technocyte

AND This is true... since there is no timeline here only the different elements.

So it could be Golems fused with suits and controlled by tenno.  How it came to be could be a great timeline debate... 

[BornWithTeeth]

6 minutes ago, Meliq said:

The thing that strikes me is that none of the items have to be false.. it is possible this is true...

 

AND This is true... since there is no timeline here only the different elements.

So it could be Golems fused with suits and controlled by tenno.  How it came to be could be a great timeline debate... 

The Tenno existed, and the evidence for them is there.
Horrible bio-warbeasts existed, and the evidence for them is there.
That the Warframe project came from combining Tenno with Horrible Warbeast certainly appears to be true, and has lots of evidence for it, across multiple different sources, Rhino Prime Codex, Second Dream quest, Silver Grove quest.

 

That the first Warframes were literally Dax soldiers/Dax power armour fused with Technocyte is unproven, and there is no evidence for it. There is no real hard evidence against it, either. Just...nothing even suggesting that it is the case. It can be regarded as an interesting speculation, but cannot be viewed as any kind of confirmed truth.

Edited September 30, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[Meliq]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The Tenno existed, and the evidence for them is there.
Horrible bio-warbeasts existed, and the evidence for them is there.
That the Warframe project came from combing Tenno with Horrible Warbeast certainly appears to be true, and has lots of evidence for it, across multiple different sources.

 

That the first Warframes were literally Dax soldiers/Dax power armour fused with Technocyte is unproven, and there is no evidence for it. There is no real hard evidence against it, either. Just...nothing even suggesting that it is the case. It can be regarded as an interesting speculation, but cannot be viewed as any kind of confirmed truth.

I was pretty sure this was a 'Theory' thread and that I was talking about possible truth.  In fact, with the exception of the timline issues - I was agreeing with you and @Slamminslug.

There are questions which lead to these types of conjectures - and if these conjectures are to ever gain any foundation then those questions have to be answered.

 

[Slamminslug]

@BornWithTeeth, @Meliq that's why theories are great though isn't it? speculation is a good o'l time. I just thought i'd post what made sense to me, I appreciate the conflicting views however, bandwagons are the hardest crashers. plus, warframe is a GREAT great game for speculation due to the utter vagueness of the game's lore.

[(XBOX)Mechanized Mind]

My own head theories are very close to yours.  I've always assumed the white structure (I believe its called "Aboriform") was a refined TC strain.  I never thought to consider it the physical form of the Neural-Sentry however, or that the Neural-Sentry could be using a rudimentary form of transferance to create the corrupted.  Those are really cool ideas, and could easily fit in with the official lore.

[AbyssalCrow]

Go scan some fragments (think its eris) you get a complete fragment called "Warframe Technology" that states our armor is a mixture of biological and metallic materials which is why we can take on infested.

While the presence of whats INSIDE the frame is in question we cannot deny that the use of infested resources + metal resources in crafting is why the Infestation is confused with our presence. It feels the infested flesh sitting silently together with metal to create Tenno armor and it feels confused on why what appears to be one of its own being disconnected from the horde and attacking its kin.

[Meliq]

2 minutes ago, AbyssalCrow said:

Go scan some fragments (think its eris) you get a complete fragment called "Warframe Technology" that states our armor is a mixture of biological and metallic materials which is why we can take on infested.

While the presence of whats INSIDE the frame is in question we cannot deny that the use of infested resources + metal resources in crafting is why the Infestation is confused with our presence. It feels the infested flesh sitting silently together with metal to create Tenno armor and it feels confused on why what appears to be one of its own being disconnected from the horde and attacking its kin.

Which would go with the infested golem in armor controlled by tenno theory that was proposed.

[Miser_able]

What makes you say that ancients are sentients? One of the simaris entries goes against this and seems to suggest that ancient healers are infested humans with healing powers (possibly a trinitys tenno)

[Slamminslug]

@shadowfire380 Well, i've got a bit of evidence to support this logic

1. Other than a select few instances, infested units generally won't wander far aesthetically from the organism/machine they originate from. Chargers were obviously lancers, runners and leapers bring former crewmen, and as far as looks are concerned, nothing but sentient fighters match the silhouette of a ancient very well...

2. Ancients.. why are they called such? well. they've been around for a hot minute. Tenno policy, as seen by the ether weapons' flavor text, is to swiftly and efficiently execute fellow operatives who have been taken by TC, so the chance of it being human is marginal if they're from the old war era. 

3. sentients are good at coordinating. if  the infested managed to nab some sentient fighters, cohesion across smaller battle groups of infested units would probably increase due to the sentient's innate ability of adaptation. Even though the mechanics tend to change: Moa pulse lasers becoming beehives and tar cannons; or osprey shield generators becoming toxin ejectors, the initial function of a weapon/module tends to be carried over to the infested version in some way.

It's not impossible that some ancients are former humans, but if any examples of that have/do exist, I haven't seen them modeled in-game beyond corpus crewmen. Based on my understanding of Orokin and tenno doctrine when it comes to dealing with the infested, any examples of infested tenno/warframes/orokin were likely an intentional exposure, not accidental, seeing as operatives who are taken by the TC are put down.

[BornWithTeeth]

20 minutes ago, Slamminslug said:

@shadowfire380 Well, i've got a bit of evidence to support this logic

1. Other than a select few instances, infested units generally won't wander far aesthetically from the organism/machine they originate from. Chargers were obviously lancers, runners and leapers bring former crewmen, and as far as looks are concerned, nothing but sentient fighters match the silhouette of a ancient very well...

2. Ancients.. why are they called such? well. they've been around for a hot minute. Tenno policy, as seen by the ether weapons' flavor text, is to swiftly and efficiently execute fellow operatives who have been taken by TC, so the chance of it being human is marginal if they're from the old war era. 

3. sentients are good at coordinating. if  the infested managed to nab some sentient fighters, cohesion across smaller battle groups of infested units would probably increase due to the sentient's innate ability of adaptation. Even though the mechanics tend to change: Moa pulse lasers becoming beehives and tar cannons; or osprey shield generators becoming toxin ejectors, the initial function of a weapon/module tends to be carried over to the infested version in some way.

It's not impossible that some ancients are former humans, but if any examples of that have/do exist, I haven't seen them modeled in-game beyond corpus crewmen. Based on my understanding of Orokin and tenno doctrine when it comes to dealing with the infested, any examples of infested tenno/warframes/orokin were likely an intentional exposure, not accidental, seeing as operatives who are taken by the TC are put down.

Have you read the Ancient Synthesis Imprint? If not, you should.

[Slamminslug]

6 hours ago, AbyssalCrow said:

While the presence of whats INSIDE the frame is in question we cannot deny that the use of infested resources + metal resources in crafting is why the Infestation is confused with our presence

Aaaaaaactually. I CAN deny the use of infested materials in at least one warframe. his name is Oberon.

Manufacturing Requirements
25,000	1	1	1	1	Time: 72 hrs
					Rush:  50
Market Price:  325			Blueprint Price:  30,000
Neuroptics
15,000	150	1	150	500	Time: 12 hrs
					Rush:  25
Chassis
15,000	1	1000	300		Time: 12 hrs
					Rush:  25
Systems
15,000	1	1	500	220	Time: 12 hrs
					Rush:  25

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oberon is (i believe) the only warframe that doesn't require infested materials, as such, when the infested bosses still refer to you as "our flesh" its a bit deeper than the surface.

So maybe it isn't just an infested golem under the skin (though i really think it is) whatever is in there has probably at least been exposed to TC

Heh. see page 2 :P

Edited October 1, 2016 by Slamminslug

[Slamminslug]

@BornWithTeeth yup, a good read that. and that imprint is the only reason I included the " It's not impossible that some ancients are former humans, but if any examples of that have/do exist, I haven't seen them modeled in-game " quote. The ancients in game AREN'T human. but seeing the range of abilities present in the different types of colonies; corpus crewmen gaining massive jumping abilities and personal detonation, the ancients in game being able to send out disruptive, damage mitigating fields, and of course, healing.

Lorists did transfer the abilities of healing to the horde, but that wasn't the only source. much like how many non-clawed organisms gained powerful talons used for rending flesh.

for the sake of the argument, sure. for some reason, Lorists in particular produce a very sentient shaped colony when exposed. Where do the disruptors and non augmented ancients get their shape?

I believe the ancients we SEE in game originated from sentient fighters. even if their abilities may have been pulled from the orokin Lorists.

" I felt Remballa heal them. Why? Multiple connections now, I felt her many times over, it didn’t make sense, until it did; she was those things, all of them. "

Remballa's shape was never really specified in this whole text, even if she was in the horde, I'd picture her being of a more humanic shape than our ancients here.

 

this is all speculation though, thanks for your contribution :P

Edited October 1, 2016 by Slamminslug

[BornWithTeeth]

@Slamminslug

 

Fair enough, just remember that if you look inside Russell's Teapot, you find Hitchen's Razor.

[Slamminslug]

@BornWithTeeth

True, which is why no matter the point I attempt to push here, I like to remind myself and others that this is SPECULATION, and none of it should be considered canon until confirmed or denied.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Slamminslug

[Miser_able]

1 hour ago, Slamminslug said:

-snip-

Ok but what about the ancient healer entry how does that fit into this?