Zeni bait and switch

[Vitamin.Ex]

The Zenistar has been internally finished for months now and info has been released about it being a reward, but the day players actually get it it gets nerf'd the very next day.

When I logged in and got it I was pretty excited. I spent a few hours making builds around it and even stuck 4 Forma on it. Now I log in today and BAM nerf. This is just proof that DE doesn't test the stuff they make otherwise it never would have been nerf'd after they saw players use it.

[That1Cactus]

What, this?

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed the Zenistars disc returning to AFK/dead players.

 

That's not a "nerf" that's a fix.

[Dualstar]

>Rants about a nerf.

>Doesnt mention what got nerfed.

[-Gundam-]

Oh, c'mon.  OP clearly is referring to...

"Added a buff-icon and timer for the Zenistar's disc projectile."

It was indefinite before, now it's time limited.

I don't get mine for another week or so, but I do feel bad for the loss of investment.

[That1Cactus]

3 minutes ago, -Gundam- said:

Oh, c'mon.  OP clearly is referring to...

"Added a buff-icon and timer for the Zenistar's disc projectile."

It was indefinite before, now it's time limited.

I don't get mine for another week or so, but I do feel bad for the loss of investment.

Except it was never indefinite. From a lot of players that I have talked to about Zenistar the disc didn't stay there forever, just like how Azima's disk isn't indefinite. Soooooo not nerfed.

[Terrence_Knight]

If you did not go out of range of your Zen disk it did stay out indefinitely as I kept them out for several minutes at a time when running an derelict survival essentially keeping up a damage/cc zone that mobs were forced to pass through to come to me. So yes. Its a nerf.

[-CM-DarkSyndrome]

I'm pretty sure the disk being out forever is not supposed to be happening so If DE fixed it then good. Just like the Azima it should have been a time on it until it stops. So stop complaining because DE fixed a weapon that was broken. Just another situation of Git Gud.

Edited September 29, 2016 by -CM-DarkSyndrome

[artemisfortune]

oh no! you have to recast it every 47 seconds! 

[NinthAria]

Somehow I don't think having a permanent, hands-free AoE death zone that scales with melee mods was an intended part of the Zenistar.

[-CM-DarkSyndrome]

1 minute ago, NinthAria said:

Somehow I don't think having a permanent, hands-free AoE death zone that scales with melee mods was an intended part of the Zenistar.

Exactly. some people just don't understand why DE fixes something that's clearly broken and easily want to throw out the word "nerf". lol

Edited September 29, 2016 by -CM-DarkSyndrome

[Death_Master_]

1 hour ago, -CM-DarkSyndrome said:

some people just don't understand why DE fixes something that's clearly broken

Nope, it was not broken.

Stats of Zenistar still are broken(making it one of the very bottom weapons)for a fight and charge attack so long that it isn't worth recasting every 45 sec.

It was the only feature that made it worth obtaining at all.

 

[Vitamin.Ex]

I don't think most of you guys know exactly how it worked and why I made this post.

The weapon was completed and tested by DE and info on it was released for months before people actually got it. I got mine the day it was available to anyone. I leveled it and stuck 3 Forma on it and even Forma'd my Saryn Prime once more because I made a build around the Zenistar. The very next day it gets nerf'd!

For those who don't know, the charge attack would launch a disc which did damage in an area AND would stay out forever with no time limit, but it had a range limit on how far the user can go before it got recalled (I think it was 50 yards). So I was able to launch the disc and run around killing things with the weapon while the disc guarded a small area. 

DE felt people were having too much fun with it so they gave the disc a 30 second timer along with the limited range. Keep in mind that it's also the slowest heavy weapon in the game so the charge attack takes a few seconds. Now players have to keep launching the disc every 30 seconds.

I know many of you are going to make posts like the ones already in here saying "There is nothing wrong with recasting the disc every 30 seconds" but yes there actually is. If there was no problem then people wouldn't have complained about the Synoid Heliocor and the 30 second Specter it makes.

All I'm saying is DE had months to test that weapon but chose to release it the was it was and after people invested Forma in it they change how it works. That's called "bait and switch". 

[peggisan]

3 hours ago, ExzoSSG said:

The weapon was completed and tested by DE and info on it was released for months before people actually got it.

Really? And you know it was tested how? For all you know, it could have been added in a recent hotfix. Having a weapon image in the login rewards table or the datamined stats and descriptions doesnt mean the weapon mechanics were completed and implemented into the game.

 

5 minutes of actual players in a game can log more hours and find more bugs than what bugtesting can do in years.

[Death_Master_]

26 minutes ago, peggisan said:

5 minutes of actual players in a game can log more hours and find more bugs than what bugtesting can do in years.

But most of bugs could be discovered in 2 hours by devs themselves... Just they almost never test what they give to us.

Actually they test a bit before releasing, they have all fun and we mostly have just leftovers from their fun table(like it was with Mag and Volt reworks, like it was with Zenistar too).

For me it's fully okay to know it, just i hate last moment's changes that kill a thing completely before i can even have it(but after releasing it to public) after nearly a year of waiting.

It's like "Come to our place every day and after a year we gift you Galaxy 7 phone" but when just 2 days left they tell "Oops, we dropped it from roof so it doesn't really work anymore, it shuts down after 46 sec, just 2 more days and it's yours, keep visiting us!".

[Rodag]

I'm wondering if it was actually not intended last infinitely or if that was a response to it being used AFK. If the timer is just an AFK countermeasure I'd prefer if they bound the disk's return to the AFK status. I didn't get the zenistar yet but i was looking forward to using the disk as passive area support. Like a stationary sentinel. And if this is not about using it for AFK farming: If the high CC and damage range were the reason duration was added it didn't accomplish anywthing against that since none of those was touched. Imo that change didn't make it any weaker but just more annoying to use. Like having to order your companion to attack every 46 seconds. Maybe that's not what it's supposed to be used like but that's what i was looking forward to.

9 hours ago, NinthAria said:

Somehow I don't think having a permanent, hands-free AoE death zone that scales with melee mods was an intended part of the Zenistar.

I don't really think changing a "permanent, free-Hands AOE death zone that scales with melee mods" to a 46s free-hands AOE death zone that scales with melee mods fixes the weapon if it was considered broken before (unless this is about AFK in which case i'd really prefer it to be bound to the AFK status)

Edited September 30, 2016 by Rodag

[Death_Master_]

23 minutes ago, Rodag said:

I don't really think changing a "permanent, free-Hands AOE death zone that scales with melee mods" to a 46s free-hands AOE death zone that scales with melee mods fixes the weapon if it was considered broken before (unless this is about AFK in which case i'd really prefer it to be bound to the AFK status)

Fully agree with you! It's okay if they tied it to afk stratus just like sentinals that stop doing anything if afk.

And for player's sanity they could change afk detection to count every action including shooting at mobs, swinging a weapon or using skills, not only moving several meters around.

[lukinu_u]

I agree with with people that say this "nerf" was for anti-AFK farming but it's stay a big nerf. The wepon is not overpowered like some peoples say and it still the 300 day login reward.
How some peoples say here, I think the disc just need to come back when afk status is on.

Or give us a way to increase the timer, like killing enemis with channeled attack or something else.

 

[Vitamin.Ex]

I wouldn't mind if it was just an AFK effect but sadly it's not. It's also not as "OP" as people say it is, I have 4 Forma on mine I think I know a thing or two about it. On Akkad it kills everything for the first 5 waves but after that you'll notice it starts to take a few ticks before it kills something and by wave 15 you're killing things faster with the actual weapon than the floating disc.

There was nothing wrong how it was and having an AFK timer added would've been great but to give everyone a timer makes it a weapon that comes equipped with a chore. If you have to recast that disc while enemies are around you the disc will bounce off them and get placed somewhere you don't want and now you have to charge it again to recall the disc and try to recast it again. It was great being able to launch it and leave it where it was.

[Shockwave-]

Agree with the AFK timer. I just got mine and it's simply ANNOYING to use, but if you do the annoying thing, it is just as powerful as having it out all the time. SO the nerf didn't nerf power, it just increased how annoying it is to use. That's not really a necessary thing to do to your players. Tie it to the AFK timer and put it back to permanent.

[Rolunde]

8 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

Or give us a way to increase the timer, like killing enemies with channeled attack or something else.

I think the idea of killing enemies with the weapon adding time to the deployed disk seems like a decent compromise. 

1. Deploy disk
2. Run around and hit enemies often enough to keep disk working
3. ???
4. Profit!

[Death_Master_]

1 hour ago, Rolunde said:

I think the idea of killing enemies with the weapon adding time to the deployed disk seems like a decent compromise. 

Sadly it can't work as disk is counted like melee weapon attack so kills count as melee kills anyway(that is part of game mechanics).

But forcing it to return on afk status(instead of timer)would make it good again.

[-CM-DarkSyndrome]

Ok, I understand where you are coming from now and I agree with you but I just want to let you know that you contradicted yourself lol. First you said

22 hours ago, ExzoSSG said:

This is just proof that DE doesn't test the stuff they make otherwise it never would have been nerf'd after they saw players use it.

Then you said.

17 hours ago, ExzoSSG said:

The weapon was completed and tested by DE

:D

[Vitamin.Ex]

What I find most annoying and what really shows where their priorities are is how it gets a timer within hours of players having it, but they wont ever get around to fixing the graphical bug of the discs remaining sideways in the air. I could probably create around 50 of these sideways discs in a mission from just using the weapon. You can count on this NEVER getting fixed.

[Reifnir]

So, Banshee (a lab frame anyone can get) with a Resonating Quake killing/locking down entire maps is perfectly fine and a tiny disk that can't reliably kill anything past level 30 is OP and needs a nerf despite the fact that it takes a new player 10 MONTHS to obtain one? Rrrright. 

12 hours ago, Rolunde said:

I think the idea of killing enemies with the weapon adding time to the deployed disk seems like a decent compromise. 

1. Deploy disk
2. Run around and hit enemies often enough to keep disk working
3. ???
4. Profit!

Just tie it to step count like Volt's passive so you must be moving to keep the disk going.